Prime Larry Holmes (1983) - undisputed HW champion 2017 ?

[Enlightened-One]

If guys like Holmes fought today, they'd come in at 235 instead of 215 and still bring the skills with them.

We're being asked to consider the 1983 version of Larry Holmes, not how his physicality would drastically differ if he competed today (as per the thread title).

This obsession with size is inane.

Are you saying that weight divisions are pointless?

Should size discrepancy of 40+lbs in weight and several inches in height be considered meaningless? If so, are the following bouts reasonable?

• Roman Gonzalez vs. Canelo Alvarez
• Vasyl Lomachenko vs. Sergey Kovalev
• Gennady Golovkin vs. Oleksandr Usyk
• Oleksandr Usyk vs. Luis Ortiz

Should the cruiserweight division cease to exist?

For sure, size discrepancy is less of a factor for the heavier weight classes, but nonetheless, the vast majority of heavyweights that are significantly “bigger” than their opponents, are usually considered as benefitting from a size advantage.

[Enlightened-One]

Whom were the super heavyweight sized guys that Holmes fought, other than Cooney and Williams?

Gerry Cooney had the height, but he was significantly lighter than most current heavies (when he faced Holmes, he was lighter than David Haye was when he fought Mark de Mori).

If you’re referring to Carl Williams, when he fought Holmes, he was about the same size as a rehydrated modern day cruiserweight (as per the top-tier guys I mentioned earlier in this thread).

[Bard of Boxrec]

THESE MODERN GIANTS

I guess Enlightened_One not so enlightened...

Can you name one fighter ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight list, barring Eddie Chambers, that typically weighs less than 220lbs?

Can you name more than ten currently active heavyweight fighters ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 that typically weigh less than 230lbs?

THEY ARE FAT!!!! They can't sustain a pace. They aren't skilled. They come in bulky because they can get away with it in a division that has been weak for so long. It does not have any bearing whatsoever on how they would do vs fighters of other eras.

significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

I guess Povetkin should have lost to Wach then, or Hammer to Price, or Tyson to Tucker, or dempsey to willard, or Jones to Ruiz, or Brewster to Wlad Klitchsko, or Louis to Carnera, or Frazier to Mathis, or Adamek to Grant, or Bruno to Eklund, or chagaev to Valuev, or billy zumbrin to eric esch, or Bakhtov to Kretschmann, or mollo to McBride, or Monte Barrett to tye fvkin Fields

i can't even remember the point any more. Fergus does that to you. God help me for being just another idiot dragged into his black hole of inanity.

[Enlightened-One]

THESE MODERN GIANTS

I guess Enlightened_One not so enlightened...

Can you name one fighter ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight list, barring Eddie Chambers, that typically weighs less than 220lbs?

Can you name more than ten currently active heavyweight fighters ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 that typically weigh less than 230lbs?

THEY ARE FAT!!!! They can't sustain a pace. They aren't skilled. They come in bulky because they can get away with it in a division that has been weak for so long. It does not have any bearing whatsoever on how they would do vs fighters of other eras.

significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

I guess Povetkin should have lost to Wach then, or Hammer to Price, or Tyson to Tucker, or dempsey to willard, or Jones to Ruiz, or Brewster to Wlad Klitchsko, or Louis to Carnera, or Frazier to Mathis, or Adamek to Grant, or Bruno to Eklund, or chagaev to Valuev, or billy zumbrin to eric esch, or Bakhtov to Kretschmann, or mollo to McBride, or Monte Barrett to tye fvkin Fields

i can't even remember the point any more. Fergus does that to you. God help me for being just another idiot dragged into his black hole of inanity.

So according to you: all modern heavyweights are fat and useless; size is irrelevant; nostalgia is more important than facts; and exceptions always disprove the general rule?

Also, you submitted multiple posts goading me into responding to your criticism in this thread, but when I provide a reply containing multiple facts you’re unable to challenge, you suddenly and conveniently gain amnesia, by forgetting the subject matter under discussion. Nice that!

[Bard of Boxrec]

So according to you: all modern heavyweights are fat and useless; size is irrelevant; nostalgia is more important than facts; and exceptions always disprove the general rule?

Also, you submitted multiple posts goading me into responding to your criticism in this thread, but when I provide a reply containing multiple facts you’re unable to challenge, you suddenly and conveniently gain amnesia, by forgetting the subject matter under discussion. Nice that!

- all modern heavyweights are fat and useless NOPE, just most of them
- size is irrelevant NOPE, Never said that at all
- nostalgia is more important than facts NOPE, it isn't nostalgia, it's based on using eyes and not obsessing over meaningless stats



- and exceptions always disprove the general rule

You said

significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

Regardless of talent!!! You specifically advised people, when faced with matchups such as those I listed above, to disregard talent. In which case you would pick Tye Fields over Joe Frazier, correct?

I never once said size was irrelevant. You were the one fixating on size all along.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Larry Holmes would clean up todays division. Certainly there will allways be a tough fight out there, with Fury being a easy points win, KO of Klitschko to a tough fight with Ortiz. Joshua and Wilder are way too crude, he would wipe them out at this stage. Who is talking about Larry at Cruiserweight.........really, and how do you come to this conclusion?

- Perhaps look to your concussion for clues.

Tubby Lar never came close to cleaning out his DKing era, a single belt holder ducking the WBA and later WBC champs for starters. In his active years, not only was he not good enough to make the Olympics, but he was never part of the Fab 4 of Norton, Ali, Frazier, and Foreman, so he ducked out on that era too because he was still in his big boy training pans. King greased up his fragile ego up with a bogus 48-0 record, and then set him up a real champ, Michael Spinks, who actually could carry Rocky's jock and won his Olympic and Pro titles in the ring. Tubs then showed us why he ducked real champs by going 0-5 against standing champs, easily the worst heavy on record.

At the end of the day, huge guys like Josh and Fury accomplished more than he at the same age and the Kbros infinitely better than him in spite of being handicapped by ama trainers/managers at the start of their careers. Tubs would be an easy fight for them. Valuev would toss him around the ring like a rag doll. Yeah, size matters like when a 340lb 4 round club fighter Butterbean knocked him down and had him riding the ropes to prop himself up as he fled the humiliating count of the ref. Nobody ever said size was the end all, but there's a reason why there is a deficit of 210 lb champs these past decades.

Good luck figuring it out...

[ValMar]

I have to repeat....Please, list all elite HWs 6'6'' / 250 (active nowadays, and all which were active since 2000).
Please, answer this question ! It is not difficult question, at all............

I am waiting for an answer, the question is quite simple.
This list might be very, very short.

[ValMar]

So according to you: all modern heavyweights are fat and useless; size is irrelevant; nostalgia is more important than facts; and exceptions always disprove the general rule?

Also, you submitted multiple posts goading me into responding to your criticism in this thread, but when I provide a reply containing multiple facts you’re unable to challenge, you suddenly and conveniently gain amnesia, by forgetting the subject matter under discussion. Nice that!

- all modern heavyweights are fat and useless NOPE, just most of them
- size is irrelevant NOPE, Never said that at all
- nostalgia is more important than facts NOPE, it isn't nostalgia, it's based on using eyes and not obsessing over meaningless stats



- and exceptions always disprove the general rule

You said

significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

Regardless of talent!!! You specifically advised people, when faced with matchups such as those I listed above, to disregard talent. In which case you would pick Tye Fields over Joe Frazier, correct?

I never once said size was irrelevant. You were the one fixating on size all along.

Very good post, Riddick !

[Enlightened-One]

I have to repeat....Please, list all elite HWs 6'6'' / 250 (active nowadays, and all which were active since 2000).
Please, answer this question ! It is not difficult question, at all............

I am waiting for an answer, the question is quite simple.
This list might be very, very short.

The request you ask me has organically changed throughout the course of the thread. What has the year 2000 got to do with anything? You might as as well impose more restrictions, such as a particular town and year of birth!

By the way, there are lots of questions I asked you to respond to, which you've ignored. So instead, I'll ask you to address the following post that I previously responded to your troll buddy:

THESE MODERN GIANTS

I guess Enlightened_One not so enlightened...

Can you name one fighter ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight list, barring Eddie Chambers, that typically weighs less than 220lbs?

Can you name more than ten currently active heavyweight fighters ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 that typically weigh less than 230lbs?

Can you name 15 or more heavyweight fighters in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight fighter list that are shorter than 6’ 3”?

The 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent time period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs.

Using BoxRec’s current top 60 heavyweight list:
• 63.5% of heavyweights are taller than Larry Holmes
• 100% of heavyweights typically weigh more than Larry Holmes' average 207½lb physical prime weight
• 42% of fighters are taller than 6’ 4” in height
• 77% of fighters typically weigh around the 240lb-mark or more
• 45% of fighters typically weigh around the 250lb-mark or more
• 20% of fighters typically weigh around the 260lb-mark or more
• The average weight of a top 60 heavyweight fighter is 247lbs

It’s also fairly easy to argue that rehydrated versions of the following modern day world-rated cruiserweights are highly-likely to be physically bigger than the 207½lb prime version of Larry Holmes:
• Oleksandr Usyk
• Murat Gassiev
• Tony Bellew
• Marco Huck
• Yunier Dorticos

It is also reasonable to claim that when Larry Holmes was in his prime, from 1973 to 1982, the vast majority of the time, he competed against men that were the physical equivalent of modern day cruiserweights.

It’s important to note that I previously expressed the same opinion (on multiple occasions) about size discrepancies not being the “be-all-and-end-all" when it comes to the factors determining the outcome of fights, but the significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

The size discrepancy that Larry Holmes would have to endure, such as a couple of inches or so in height and 40lbs+ in weight, if he had to compete against the current crop of heavies, would be significant enough to reasonably claim that he would be forced to overcome a major size disadvantage. He would not be as successful today than he was 32+ years ago.

Also, here’s a list of the height and typical fighting weights of the top-60 BoxRec ranked heavyweights, which I used to justify the facts contained in the above post:
• Anthony Joshua (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Deontay Wilder (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Luis Ortiz (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Kubrat Pulev (Height = 6'4½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Alexander Povetkin (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Charles Martin (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Joseph Parker (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Christian Hammer (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Erkan Teper (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• Malik Scott (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Lucas Browne (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• David Haye (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 225lbs)
• Eric Molina (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Dominic Breazeale (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Dillian Whyte (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Dereck Chisora (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Johann Duhaupas (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Tony Thompson (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• Gerald Washington (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Adrian Granat (Height = 6'7½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Carlos Takam (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Robert Helenius (Height = 6'6½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Trevor Bryan (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Jarrell Miller (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 290lbs)
• Andrey Fedosov (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 225lbs)
• Adam Kownacki (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Hughie Fury (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Andriy Rudenko (Height = 6'0½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Agit Kabayel (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Andrzej Wawrzyk (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Otto Wallin (Height = 6'5½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Oscar Rivas (Height = 6'0½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Manuel Charr (Height = 6'3½"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Bogdan Dinu (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Arnold Gjergjaj (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Izuagbe Ugonoh (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Derric Rossy (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Jun Long Zhang (Height = 6'3½"; Weight = 280lbs)
• Dillon Carman (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Edmund Gerber (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Zhilei Zhang (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Tom Schwarz (Height = 6'5½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Odlanier Solis (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Guillermo Jones (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Kyotaro Fujimoto (Height = 6'0"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Shannon Briggs (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Sergey Kuzmin (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Trey Lippe (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 230lbs)
• David Price (Height = 6'8"; Weight = 275lbs)
• Gary Cornish (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Travis Kauffman (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Alexander Dimitrenko (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Chris Arreola (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Eugene Hill (Height = 5'11"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Chazz Witherspoon (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Mariusz Wach (Height = 6'7½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Eddie Chambers (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 220lbs)
• LaRon Mitchell (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Werner Kreiskott (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 235lbs)

Do these points address your question:
• 42% of fighters are taller than 6’ 4” in height
• 20% of fighters are taller than 6’ 5” in height
• 12% of fighters are taller than 6’ 6” in height
• The average weight of a top 60 heavyweight fighter is 247lbs

The 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent time period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs.

[Bard of Boxrec]

that's a hell of a lot of big fat inept guys.

Congratulations Ferg, you are adept at compiling lists, or copy and pasting.

If bookmakers compiled odds based on your criteria for effectiveness at heavyweight, I would be a very rich man indeed!

[ValMar]

I have to repeat....Please, list all elite HWs 6'6'' / 250 (active nowadays, and all which were active since 2000).
Please, answer this question ! It is not difficult question, at all............

I am waiting for an answer, the question is quite simple.
This list might be very, very short.

The request you ask me has organically changed throughout the course of the thread. What has the year 2000 got to do with anything? You might as as well impose more restrictions, such as a particular town and year of birth!

By the way, there are lots of questions I asked you to respond to, which you've ignored. So instead, I'll ask you to address the following post that I previously responded to your troll buddy:

THESE MODERN GIANTS

I guess Enlightened_One not so enlightened...

Can you name one fighter ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight list, barring Eddie Chambers, that typically weighs less than 220lbs?

Can you name more than ten currently active heavyweight fighters ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 that typically weigh less than 230lbs?

Can you name 15 or more heavyweight fighters in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight fighter list that are shorter than 6’ 3”?

The 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent time period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs.

Using BoxRec’s current top 60 heavyweight list:
• 63.5% of heavyweights are taller than Larry Holmes
• 100% of heavyweights typically weigh more than Larry Holmes' average 207½lb physical prime weight
• 42% of fighters are taller than 6’ 4” in height
• 77% of fighters typically weigh around the 240lb-mark or more
• 45% of fighters typically weigh around the 250lb-mark or more
• 20% of fighters typically weigh around the 260lb-mark or more
• The average weight of a top 60 heavyweight fighter is 247lbs

It’s also fairly easy to argue that rehydrated versions of the following modern day world-rated cruiserweights are highly-likely to be physically bigger than the 207½lb prime version of Larry Holmes:
• Oleksandr Usyk
• Murat Gassiev
• Tony Bellew
• Marco Huck
• Yunier Dorticos

It is also reasonable to claim that when Larry Holmes was in his prime, from 1973 to 1982, the vast majority of the time, he competed against men that were the physical equivalent of modern day cruiserweights.

It’s important to note that I previously expressed the same opinion (on multiple occasions) about size discrepancies not being the “be-all-and-end-all" when it comes to the factors determining the outcome of fights, but the significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

The size discrepancy that Larry Holmes would have to endure, such as a couple of inches or so in height and 40lbs+ in weight, if he had to compete against the current crop of heavies, would be significant enough to reasonably claim that he would be forced to overcome a major size disadvantage. He would not be as successful today than he was 32+ years ago.

Also, here’s a list of the height and typical fighting weights of the top-60 BoxRec ranked heavyweights, which I used to justify the facts contained in the above post:
• Anthony Joshua (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Deontay Wilder (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Luis Ortiz (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Kubrat Pulev (Height = 6'4½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Alexander Povetkin (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Charles Martin (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Joseph Parker (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Christian Hammer (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Erkan Teper (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• Malik Scott (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Lucas Browne (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• David Haye (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 225lbs)
• Eric Molina (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Dominic Breazeale (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Dillian Whyte (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Dereck Chisora (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Johann Duhaupas (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Tony Thompson (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• Gerald Washington (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Adrian Granat (Height = 6'7½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Carlos Takam (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Robert Helenius (Height = 6'6½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Trevor Bryan (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Jarrell Miller (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 290lbs)
• Andrey Fedosov (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 225lbs)
• Adam Kownacki (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Hughie Fury (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Andriy Rudenko (Height = 6'0½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Agit Kabayel (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Andrzej Wawrzyk (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Otto Wallin (Height = 6'5½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Oscar Rivas (Height = 6'0½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Manuel Charr (Height = 6'3½"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Bogdan Dinu (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Arnold Gjergjaj (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Izuagbe Ugonoh (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Derric Rossy (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Jun Long Zhang (Height = 6'3½"; Weight = 280lbs)
• Dillon Carman (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Edmund Gerber (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Zhilei Zhang (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Tom Schwarz (Height = 6'5½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Odlanier Solis (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Guillermo Jones (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Kyotaro Fujimoto (Height = 6'0"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Shannon Briggs (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Sergey Kuzmin (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Trey Lippe (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 230lbs)
• David Price (Height = 6'8"; Weight = 275lbs)
• Gary Cornish (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Travis Kauffman (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Alexander Dimitrenko (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Chris Arreola (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Eugene Hill (Height = 5'11"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Chazz Witherspoon (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Mariusz Wach (Height = 6'7½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Eddie Chambers (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 220lbs)
• LaRon Mitchell (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Werner Kreiskott (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 235lbs)

Do these points address your question:
• 42% of fighters are taller than 6’ 4” in height
• 20% of fighters are taller than 6’ 5” in height
• 12% of fighters are taller than 6’ 6” in height
• The average weight of a top 60 heavyweight fighter is 247lbs

My question was so simple. You didn't answer. So, I don't care for the average HWs weight (suppose that a great majority of posters don't care, too).
So, please, list elite HWs (6'6'' / 250) since 2000.

[IKSRTFO]

I have to repeat....Please, list all elite HWs 6'6'' / 250 (active nowadays, and all which were active since 2000).
Please, answer this question ! It is not difficult question, at all............

I am waiting for an answer, the question is quite simple.
This list might be very, very short.

The request you ask me has organically changed throughout the course of the thread. What has the year 2000 got to do with anything? You might as as well impose more restrictions, such as a particular town and year of birth!

By the way, there are lots of questions I asked you to respond to, which you've ignored. So instead, I'll ask you to address the following post that I previously responded to your troll buddy:

THESE MODERN GIANTS

I guess Enlightened_One not so enlightened...

Can you name one fighter ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight list, barring Eddie Chambers, that typically weighs less than 220lbs?

Can you name more than ten currently active heavyweight fighters ranked in BoxRec’s top 60 that typically weigh less than 230lbs?

Can you name 15 or more heavyweight fighters in BoxRec’s top 60 heavyweight fighter list that are shorter than 6’ 3”?

The 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent time period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs.

Using BoxRec’s current top 60 heavyweight list:
• 63.5% of heavyweights are taller than Larry Holmes
• 100% of heavyweights typically weigh more than Larry Holmes' average 207½lb physical prime weight
• 42% of fighters are taller than 6’ 4” in height
• 77% of fighters typically weigh around the 240lb-mark or more
• 45% of fighters typically weigh around the 250lb-mark or more
• 20% of fighters typically weigh around the 260lb-mark or more
• The average weight of a top 60 heavyweight fighter is 247lbs

It’s also fairly easy to argue that rehydrated versions of the following modern day world-rated cruiserweights are highly-likely to be physically bigger than the 207½lb prime version of Larry Holmes:
• Oleksandr Usyk
• Murat Gassiev
• Tony Bellew
• Marco Huck
• Yunier Dorticos

It is also reasonable to claim that when Larry Holmes was in his prime, from 1973 to 1982, the vast majority of the time, he competed against men that were the physical equivalent of modern day cruiserweights.

It’s important to note that I previously expressed the same opinion (on multiple occasions) about size discrepancies not being the “be-all-and-end-all" when it comes to the factors determining the outcome of fights, but the significantly smaller man should generally be regarded as being faced with a huge disadvantage, regardless of talent.

The size discrepancy that Larry Holmes would have to endure, such as a couple of inches or so in height and 40lbs+ in weight, if he had to compete against the current crop of heavies, would be significant enough to reasonably claim that he would be forced to overcome a major size disadvantage. He would not be as successful today than he was 32+ years ago.

Also, here’s a list of the height and typical fighting weights of the top-60 BoxRec ranked heavyweights, which I used to justify the facts contained in the above post:
• Anthony Joshua (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Deontay Wilder (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Luis Ortiz (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Kubrat Pulev (Height = 6'4½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Alexander Povetkin (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Charles Martin (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Joseph Parker (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Christian Hammer (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Erkan Teper (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• Malik Scott (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Lucas Browne (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• David Haye (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 225lbs)
• Eric Molina (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Dominic Breazeale (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Dillian Whyte (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Dereck Chisora (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Johann Duhaupas (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Tony Thompson (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 265lbs)
• Gerald Washington (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Adrian Granat (Height = 6'7½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Carlos Takam (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Robert Helenius (Height = 6'6½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Trevor Bryan (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Jarrell Miller (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 290lbs)
• Andrey Fedosov (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 225lbs)
• Adam Kownacki (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Hughie Fury (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Andriy Rudenko (Height = 6'0½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Agit Kabayel (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Andrzej Wawrzyk (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Otto Wallin (Height = 6'5½"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Oscar Rivas (Height = 6'0½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Manuel Charr (Height = 6'3½"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Bogdan Dinu (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Arnold Gjergjaj (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Izuagbe Ugonoh (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Derric Rossy (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Jun Long Zhang (Height = 6'3½"; Weight = 280lbs)
• Dillon Carman (Height = 6'5"; Weight = 250lbs)
• Edmund Gerber (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Zhilei Zhang (Height = 6'6"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Tom Schwarz (Height = 6'5½"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Odlanier Solis (Height = 6'1½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Guillermo Jones (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Kyotaro Fujimoto (Height = 6'0"; Weight = 230lbs)
• Shannon Briggs (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Sergey Kuzmin (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Trey Lippe (Height = 6'2"; Weight = 230lbs)
• David Price (Height = 6'8"; Weight = 275lbs)
• Gary Cornish (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Travis Kauffman (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 240lbs)
• Alexander Dimitrenko (Height = 6'7"; Weight = 255lbs)
• Chris Arreola (Height = 6'3"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Eugene Hill (Height = 5'11"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Chazz Witherspoon (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 235lbs)
• Mariusz Wach (Height = 6'7½"; Weight = 260lbs)
• Eddie Chambers (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 220lbs)
• LaRon Mitchell (Height = 6'4"; Weight = 245lbs)
• Werner Kreiskott (Height = 6'1"; Weight = 235lbs)

Do these points address your question:
• 42% of fighters are taller than 6’ 4” in height
• 20% of fighters are taller than 6’ 5” in height
• 12% of fighters are taller than 6’ 6” in height
• The average weight of a top 60 heavyweight fighter is 247lbs

The 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent time period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs.

Few of them are of fat out of shape guys or guys who can't throw more than 10 punches per round while ripped (Briggs/Haye). Arreola at 245 could probably be a ripped Cruiser. Chambers could be a cruiser also.

[ldlamb]

Whom were the super heavyweight sized guys that Holmes fought, other than Cooney and Williams? Pretty late in his career, as well. Hard to gauge, given how different the era was to today's.


Yes, a lot of today's fighters are simply overweight, either down to a decline in fitness and discipline, or to "compensate" their lack of size in relation to people like Wlad, Joshua, Wilder.

Leroy jones

[ldlamb]

Manny Pacquiao started at 112 and beat lots of naturally bigger men up through 147

Tommy Hearns started at 147 and won belts at LT Heavy.

Chris Byrd was at 168 and ended up winning a Heavyweight belt.

If you could magically transport 1966 Ali, 1973 Foreman, or 1981 Holmes to the present day and they felt like they need to, they would add 15-20 lbs to their frame and then they would whip guys like Wilder, Fury, and Ortiz because they are light years better boxers, period. The same way they whipped guys like Buster Mathis, Leroy Jones, and Gerry Cooney.

[Kalan]

Yes, he was a bit of a flabby heavyweight and with proper diet and training he would have made a magnificent cruiserweight without a doubt.

Holmes was one of the top Heavyweights in history... He dominated Ray Mercer at 42 and I thought he had the better of Oliver McCall by 2 points at 45... Mercer was a Heavyweight Champion with stunning KO defeats of Francesco Damiani and Tommy Morrison.. so Holmes should have gotten that title recognition when he whipped Mercer -- but they stripped Mercer for fighting Holmes, which is pretty stupid.

Holmes had the greatest jab in Fistic History until the modern age of Heavyweights.. The only guys who would beat a prime Larry today are Joshua and Ortiz.. Fury would definitely beat him if he were in the shape he was in for Wladimir - but the man is such a flake I don't think he'll ever get there again.. Fury is so big and tall, and has such an unbelievable reach, he'd be a formidable force if he did some strength training and made himself into an athlete. It's weird a man with his physical gifts would toss it up and claim he hates Boxing. Why? Everything he's got he owes to Boxing. Plus he's undefeated ... so something's not right with his mind.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Now that we can safely put aside the fergus silliness for good, back to the point. Joshua is the only one who would give Larry genuine problems, but Holmes would best him in the end. Ortiz seems a bit too slow for Larry.

[Autobarn]

Maybe Holmes could've made today's cruiserweight. But whether he could or couldn't is irrelevant. He liked to carry a few extra pounds, and more importantly he liked money, the kind you can only get at heavyweight.


And to state the obvious he had loads of ability and toughness, to be a champion in any era.