Warren and his stable....

[TheGingerBomber]

Honestly, what is in store this year?

I understand this probably is a long term thing (I hope), but things haven't started too well, there's a lot of doubt with their best fight announced being two European level fighters facing off in Smith/Williams.

He's been recruiting heavily, mostly prospects, but also two good fighters in Nurse and Warrington, yet their first fights aren't that good. And while Warrington is a ticket seller, Nurse isn't, so it's intriguing to me how Frank handles all of this.

To me, he's built his fighters poorly over the last couple of years.
His marquee loan Tyson Fury is out, but the other guys, Hughie, BJS and Flanagan aren't well known at all.

His hope is to use this year to launch his prospects into main events, I certainly think by the end of the year Anthony's Yarde should be their A-Side star, he's a guy with skill, but has that easy on the eye style with seemingly huge power which really brings in a casual audience.

He should be headlining by the end of the year.

How do you's see it, is Warren out of touch? Can't he compete with Sky? Is his best fighters just not entertaining enough?

[dirk2686]

Out of touch is a point you here a lot. He's been in the game for ages but his shows look quite old-hat compared to Sky. Purists may hate it but the comparison reminds me of PDC/BDO darts. One looks like a money-making machine that a lot of people want to go to, the other looks like something from decades gone by.

It's a difficult one in terms of what comes first - promoter or fighter. You could argue Joshua promotes himself, but I think the comparison between Crolla and Flanagan probably stands up to the most scrutiny. Widely Terry really doesn't have much of a profile and he's been a domestic world champion for a long time.

My worry with Warren is that his focus will be aiming for a world title the easiest way with a lot of his fighters and keeping them churning over against middling opposition. Put it this way; if Joshua was a Warren fighter I think he'd have taken the Martin fight every day of the week. But, I don't think we'd be seeing Wlad signed as an opponent less than a year later.

In reality, not much has changed. Smith is in a good fight in fairness. Confusion over who Warrington is fighting doesn't bode well - nor the notion that he's being built for a title fight in 2018. Hughie is still invisible and he's lost the purse bid. Flanagan has an average opponent. Other than them being on BT, has anything significant happened?

[TheGingerBomber]

Out of touch is a point you here a lot. He's been in the game for ages but his shows look quite old-hat compared to Sky. Purists may hate it but the comparison reminds me of PDC/BDO darts. One looks like a money-making machine that a lot of people want to go to, the other looks like something from decades gone by.

It's a difficult one in terms of what comes first - promoter or fighter. You could argue Joshua promotes himself, but I think the comparison between Crolla and Flanagan probably stands up to the most scrutiny. Widely Terry really doesn't have much of a profile and he's been a domestic world champion for a long time.

My worry with Warren is that his focus will be aiming for a world title the easiest way with a lot of his fighters and keeping them churning over against middling opposition. Put it this way; if Joshua was a Warren fighter I think he'd have taken the Martin fight every day of the week. But, I don't think we'd be seeing Wlad signed as an opponent less than a year later.

In reality, not much has changed. Smith is in a good fight in fairness. Confusion over who Warrington is fighting doesn't bode well - nor the notion that he's being built for a title fight in 2018. Hughie is still invisible and he's lost the purse bid. Flanagan has an average opponent. Other than them being on BT, has anything significant happened?

I forgot to mention the lost purse bid!

But yeah that's my point, only thing that's changed is the signing of fighters, no improvement in their promotion! They'll forever be nobodies if Warren doesn't ease up on his boring act.

I remember somebody saying AJ has made Hearn but i agree with you, if Hearn had Yarde, Flanagan, Saunders etc, he'd have made them names by now. His hype game is seriously underrated. He makes these lads money and that's the main thing apart from fan service (without sounding selfish!)...

[dirk2686]

Hearn has been accused of putting on mismatches, (which all promoters do to be fair), but you can still compare the opposition that Crolla has faced compared to Flanagan for example and one looks light years better in that regard.

It's not like it's only Matchroom fighters who are big names either - Khan and Haye for example. Warren needs to be advising the likes of Flanagan and Saunders how to build and develop a profile beyond people who only watch boxing.

[TheGingerBomber]

Hearn has been accused of putting on mismatches, (which all promoters do to be fair), but you can still compare the opposition that Crolla has faced compared to Flanagan for example and one looks light years better in that regard.

It's not like it's only Matchroom fighters who are big names either - Khan and Haye for example. Warren needs to be advising the likes of Flanagan and Saunders how to build and develop a profile beyond people who only watch boxing.

Good point.

Khan and Haye! There's a few who could do that, even Audley did it I believe.

[dirk2686]

Hearn has been accused of putting on mismatches, (which all promoters do to be fair), but you can still compare the opposition that Crolla has faced compared to Flanagan for example and one looks light years better in that regard.

It's not like it's only Matchroom fighters who are big names either - Khan and Haye for example. Warren needs to be advising the likes of Flanagan and Saunders how to build and develop a profile beyond people who only watch boxing.

Good point.

Khan and Haye! There's a few who could do that, even Audley did it I believe.

There are two arguments against the 'Hearn has a Sky deal and nobody else can compete with it' line.

Firstly, Hearn went out and got the Sky deal. It seems churlish to berate a promoter for going out of his way to secure the best deal for his fighters. It is literally his job.

Secondly, if you don't have the Sky window, use all possible means. Social media, newspaper columns, TV appearances. Get them on sports talk shows, terrestrial mainstream programmes, reality TV. How much did being in the jungle boost Haye's profile? He spends years away from boxing, comes back to fight an absolute gimme, and he sells out the O2, whilst genuine world champions under Warren are fighting in leisure centres. I just don't buy the notion that purely being off Sky means Warren's fighters are essentially unknown to a wider audience.

[JimJim2009]

I think Fwank's underwhelming announcement needed a surprise element to whet the fans appetite - like bringing Rigo over, or another top overseas fighter, something a bit out of the ordinary. From what I could see, Fwank couldn't make all the announcements he was hoping to make, and there's a press conference this week (or next ?) to announce more shows. I have faith he's going to have a good year and deliver substantially more than in previous years.

[Cazelo]

I'd reserve judgement with BDO/PDC comparison until we see production values of the first BT sport show. May be a different set up.

there are fighters out there who have cross over appeal who Warren could use to propel his own stars. Such as Haye and Khan headlining shows with a Saunders or Flanagan on the undercard. Would likely be worth his while forking out for these kind of guys to help his own stable.

Once he has them tuned in them he can showcase his own exciting talent

[tobyh5]

Firstly, Hearn went out and got the Sky deal.

Not quite true that though is it, not how you have presented it

[TheGingerBomber]

Hearn has been accused of putting on mismatches, (which all promoters do to be fair), but you can still compare the opposition that Crolla has faced compared to Flanagan for example and one looks light years better in that regard.

It's not like it's only Matchroom fighters who are big names either - Khan and Haye for example. Warren needs to be advising the likes of Flanagan and Saunders how to build and develop a profile beyond people who only watch boxing.

Good point.

Khan and Haye! There's a few who could do that, even Audley did it I believe.

There are two arguments against the 'Hearn has a Sky deal and nobody else can compete with it' line.

Firstly, Hearn went out and got the Sky deal. It seems churlish to berate a promoter for going out of his way to secure the best deal for his fighters. It is literally his job.

Secondly, if you don't have the Sky window, use all possible means. Social media, newspaper columns, TV appearances. Get them on sports talk shows, terrestrial mainstream programmes, reality TV. How much did being in the jungle boost Haye's profile? He spends years away from boxing, comes back to fight an absolute gimme, and he sells out the O2, whilst genuine world champions under Warren are fighting in leisure centres. I just don't buy the notion that purely being off Sky means Warren's fighters are essentially unknown to a wider audience.

Me too just so ya know!

[dirk2686]

Firstly, Hearn went out and got the Sky deal.

Not quite true that though is it, not how you have presented it

Hearn's job is to get the best deal for his fighters. He's got it. If Warren had been able to do the same deal he'd have surely done it as well?

I absolutely do not buy all this playing the little man, it's all about the fans stuff Warren comes out with. He was the one who was happy to send out absolutely pathetic fights onto PPV, (Khan Salita? Audley Rogan?!?), and frankly Sky appeared to have just simply had enough of investing heavily for minimal reward. Hearn gets them great figures hence the situation we are in now.

Don't get me wrong; if Hearn ends up trying to promote several years of Joshua v nobody better than Chisora and Whyte on PPV, whilst also upping the likes of Brook Bizier and Burns Crawford from standard platform to PPV then the same could happen with him. But for now, it's not.

[tobyh5]

Firstly, Hearn went out and got the Sky deal.

Not quite true that though is it, not how you have presented it

Hearn's job is to get the best deal for his fighters. He's got it. If Warren had been able to do the same deal he'd have surely done it as well?

I absolutely do not buy all this playing the little man, it's all about the fans stuff Warren comes out with. He was the one who was happy to send out absolutely pathetic fights onto PPV, (Khan Salita? Audley Rogan?!?), and frankly Sky appeared to have just simply had enough of investing heavily for minimal reward. Hearn gets them great figures hence the situation we are in now.

Don't get me wrong; if Hearn ends up trying to promote several years of Joshua v nobody better than Chisora and Whyte on PPV, whilst also upping the likes of Brook Bizier and Burns Crawford from standard platform to PPV then the same could happen with him. But for now, it's not.

Hearn puts on a great show and I am sure Sky are happy with how it is going, but he initially secured that Sky deal on the back of the darts which was my point. He did not go out and earn it, he is silver spoon boy. Subsequently he may have earned the right to keep the deal but do not make that mistake about going out and getting it.

[Boxing Prospect]

Been told Warren is sniffing around China for a prospect or two...

[dirk2686]

Toby, if anyone had an easy route into Sky PPV surely it was Warren himself, given he was promoting on that very platform when Matchroom barely had a fighter to speak of?

It's easy to paint Hearn as some silver spoon kid and in a sense he is. But it's not long ago that Warren was by a MASSIVE factor the biggest UK promoter, with every TV deal including PPV, and a stable that included Hatton, Calzaghe, Maccarinelli and Khan, later Brook, DeGale, Bellew, Burns and Groves.

It's not unreasonable to ask how he's ended up in a situation where Terry Flanagan fights are the pick of his stable.

[TheGingerBomber]

Toby, if anyone had an easy route into Sky PPV surely it was Warren himself, given he was promoting on that very platform when Matchroom barely had a fighter to speak of?

It's easy to paint Hearn as some silver spoon kid and in a sense he is. But it's not long ago that Warren was by a MASSIVE factor the biggest UK promoter, with every TV deal including PPV, and a stable that included Hatton, Calzaghe, Maccarinelli and Khan, later Brook, DeGale, Bellew, Burns and Groves.

It's not unreasonable to ask how he's ended up in a situation where Terry Flanagan fights are the pick of his stable.

Warren, for want of a better word, has fucked it.

But there's plenty of opportunities to make up for his situation. BT is the biggun!

[mickey1975]

Toby, if anyone had an easy route into Sky PPV surely it was Warren himself, given he was promoting on that very platform when Matchroom barely had a fighter to speak of?

It's easy to paint Hearn as some silver spoon kid and in a sense he is. But it's not long ago that Warren was by a MASSIVE factor the biggest UK promoter, with every TV deal including PPV, and a stable that included Hatton, Calzaghe, Maccarinelli and Khan, later Brook, DeGale, Bellew, Burns and Groves.

It's not unreasonable to ask how he's ended up in a situation where Terry Flanagan fights are the pick of his stable.

Because when Haye-Harrison ruined ppv, Wazza needed someone who had it so set up the channel a stupid move really. Just like building The London Arena. His resilience is pretty amazing, really. Parsons Cross reckons Sky were minutes away from pulling out of boxing and it was only Barry Hearn that saved it with his huge output of other sports on the channel. It's only since Eddie took over, he built it. Sky Matchroom shows in the 00's were truly crap.

[whiteboy]

Not quite true that though is it, not how you have presented it

Hearn's job is to get the best deal for his fighters. He's got it. If Warren had been able to do the same deal he'd have surely done it as well?

I absolutely do not buy all this playing the little man, it's all about the fans stuff Warren comes out with. He was the one who was happy to send out absolutely pathetic fights onto PPV, (Khan Salita? Audley Rogan?!?), and frankly Sky appeared to have just simply had enough of investing heavily for minimal reward. Hearn gets them great figures hence the situation we are in now.

Don't get me wrong; if Hearn ends up trying to promote several years of Joshua v nobody better than Chisora and Whyte on PPV, whilst also upping the likes of Brook Bizier and Burns Crawford from standard platform to PPV then the same could happen with him. But for now, it's not.

Hearn puts on a great show and I am sure Sky are happy with how it is going, but he initially secured that Sky deal on the back of the darts which was my point. He did not go out and earn it, he is silver spoon boy. Subsequently he may have earned the right to keep the deal but do not make that mistake about going out and getting it.

To be fair they went out and got Froch, and built Brook up in Sheffield, etc. He wouldn't have got the exclusive deal without getting a half decent stable in the first place.

[bripez]

Warren needs to be advising the likes of Flanagan and Saunders how to build and develop a profile beyond people who only watch boxing.

I would usually agree - actually, he should be "promoting" them which is more than advising them how to promote themselves.

However, then names mentioned (Khan and Haye) are media friendly articulate people who are very comfortable in front of the camera.

Unfortunately Flanagan makes Scott Quigg look like Oscar Wilde and no sensible TV producer in the land would put BJS in front of a camera uncensored.

[dirk2686]

Toby, if anyone had an easy route into Sky PPV surely it was Warren himself, given he was promoting on that very platform when Matchroom barely had a fighter to speak of?

It's easy to paint Hearn as some silver spoon kid and in a sense he is. But it's not long ago that Warren was by a MASSIVE factor the biggest UK promoter, with every TV deal including PPV, and a stable that included Hatton, Calzaghe, Maccarinelli and Khan, later Brook, DeGale, Bellew, Burns and Groves.

It's not unreasonable to ask how he's ended up in a situation where Terry Flanagan fights are the pick of his stable.

Because when Haye-Harrison ruined ppv, Wazza needed someone who had it so set up the channel a stupid move really. Just like building The London Arena. His resilience is pretty amazing, really. Parsons Cross reckons Sky were minutes away from pulling out of boxing and it was only Barry Hearn that saved it with his huge output of other sports on the channel. It's only since Eddie took over, he built it. Sky Matchroom shows in the 00's were truly crap.

Why did Warren need it? Why not just promote his own stable on the biggest platform available at the time and build from there? Hearn had Froch, and subsequently Joshua, on normal Sky Sports fights before their popularity increased to the extent that business sense dictated a move back into Box Office was justified.

[JimJim2009]

Toby, if anyone had an easy route into Sky PPV surely it was Warren himself, given he was promoting on that very platform when Matchroom barely had a fighter to speak of?

It's easy to paint Hearn as some silver spoon kid and in a sense he is. But it's not long ago that Warren was by a MASSIVE factor the biggest UK promoter, with every TV deal including PPV, and a stable that included Hatton, Calzaghe, Maccarinelli and Khan, later Brook, DeGale, Bellew, Burns and Groves.

It's not unreasonable to ask how he's ended up in a situation where Terry Flanagan fights are the pick of his stable.

Because when Haye-Harrison ruined ppv, Wazza needed someone who had it so set up the channel a stupid move really. Just like building The London Arena. His resilience is pretty amazing, really. Parsons Cross reckons Sky were minutes away from pulling out of boxing and it was only Barry Hearn that saved it with his huge output of other sports on the channel. It's only since Eddie took over, he built it. Sky Matchroom shows in the 00's were truly crap.

Why did Warren need it? Why not just promote his own stable on the biggest platform available at the time and build from there? Hearn had Froch, and subsequently Joshua, on normal Sky Sports fights before their popularity increased to the extent that business sense dictated a move back into Box Office was justified.

Fwank said it was over sky's inflexibility over dates which when I put into a google bullsxxt translator comes out as sky wouldn't pay for crap

[dirk2686]

Fwank said it was over sky's inflexibility over dates which when I put into a google bullsxxt translator comes out as sky wouldn't pay for crap

Very good.

[TheGingerBomber]

I'm not in love with Eddie Hearn but I think he's mostly genuine. Like people say, he's done well with Bellew and Crolla, and if he makes a superstar out of Okolie like he's done with AJ, he'll have shown himself to be capable again.

Frank needs to push these so called future world champs into the limelight.

I'm talking, Anthony Yarde, Lerrone Richards, Mitchell Smith! Match them tough!

[chad]

All we can do is give Warren time to see how the next 12 to 18 months play out. He's put on some decent cards so far but nothing exceptional. He's signed about 15 new fighters who will be interesting to watch plus he's got a bunch of fighters hovering at European and World level. I think having BT on board will make a difference. They will certainly be pushing and promoting the 20 fights on their channel. Also have a feeling they will have a massive say in terms of production and presentation.

I know people will draw comparisons between Hearn and Warren. Hearn is on top of his game but it has taken him nearly 5 years to get there. In the summer of 2012 SKY binned Maloney and Hatton and made Hearn their sole promoter. Whilst Hearn was already acquiring talent it still took him nearly 24 months to build the bulk of the stable we recognise today. Warren could of course continue to add more recognised names over the next 12 to 18 months just like Hearn did. For comparison purposes here's a look at the first 12 months of shows Eddie put on for SKY Sports:

08-09-12 - Lee Purdy Vs. Gumersindo Lucas Carrasco
22-09-12 - Carl Frampton Vs. Steve Molitor
06-10-12 - Prizefighter
20-10-12 - Kell Brook Vs. Hector David Saldivia
03-11-12 - Prizefighter
17-11-12 - Carl Froch Vs. Yusaf Mack
08-12-12 - Darren Barker Vs. Kerry Hope
19-01-13 - Prizefighter
09-02-13 - Kiko Martinez Vs. Carl Frampton
23-02-13 - Prizefighter
09-03-13 - Darren Barker Vs. Simone Rotolo
30-03-13 - Tony Bellew Vs. Issac Chilemba
20-04-13 - Brian Rose Vs. Joachim Alcine
11-05-13 - Ricky Burns Vs. Jose A Gonzalez
18-05-13 - Prizefighter
29-06-13 - Anthony Crolla Vs. Gavin Rees
06-07-13 - Prizefighter
13-07-13 - Viorel Simion Vs. Lee Selby

Eddie put on a total of 18 shows on SKY Sports, 6 of which where Prizefighter. I watched all of these and remember enjoying the 2 Frampton shows along with Crolla Vs. Rees. Crolla also faced Derry Matthews in a classic on the undercard of Tony Bellew Vs. Issac Chilemba.... I think. Other than that I remember the first year being very dissappointing.

Warren is down but not out. I'm sure he'll be able to match or better Eddie's debut year as the sole promoter on SKY. I'm sure we're going to see plenty more twists and turns. All I know is as a boxing fan who watches SKY Sports and B0xnati0n, the domestic scene is about to get a lot more interesting.

[dirk2686]

Didn't Hearn promote Froch v Bute on Sky?

[JimJim2009]

I'm not in love with Eddie Hearn but I think he's mostly genuine. Like people say, he's done well with Bellew and Crolla, and if he makes a superstar out of Okolie like he's done with AJ, he'll have shown himself to be capable again.

Frank needs to push these so called future world champs into the limelight.

I'm talking, Anthony Yarde, Lerrone Richards, Mitchell Smith! Match them tough!

I think Eddie knows just how to play social media and Ifilm, and all the pxss taking of himself is a clever trick. Occasionally, jumping between Ifilm interviews with him and then the other parties, you get a glimpse of what the behind the scenes Eddie may be like. For example Eddie made a big play about not ripping off fans at the 02 with inflated ticket prices for GGG/Eubank. Sounded great and genuine. I then saw Eubank Snr say that Eddie had proposed inflating the ticket prices. Now, if that is the case (and I don't think Eddie ever outright denied it) the argument shifts from not hiking up ticket prices in principle, to two different parties failing to agree on just how much you hike them up. Which is entirely understandable as this is a business, but it shows Eddie's initial gambit in a new light, as he was taking the moral high ground and put the boot in first on this point. I imagine he is very skilled at raising issues behind the scenes, in a way that, if it all goes tits up, the teflon effect applies to some degree.

The interviews with Eddie and Fwank are always entertaining, I do wonder if basically they're the same, but one is a bit rough at social media, and the other is just more savvy.