Scotland 20 England 18
France 35 Italy 10
Ireland 24 Wales 30
I still think we'll win obviously could have done without the distractions.
off topic the Boxrec official rugby thread.
You know, I have that feeling as well. They'll be massively up for this. To do so they'll have to break their pattern of not being able to perform three games in a row, but to be fair they've just broken the pattern of not being able to perform full stop, so there's a chance.
Murray's a big loss though. WIth Murray I'd have given their tight five / pack some degree of parity. WIthout him, you have to think England could have an important edge.
Going to be a huge game, though. I'll take England by no more than 7 points.
Wales to beat Ireland 25-19. The siege mentality will get them through one game, and I hate picking any side to win if John Hayes is playing in it.
France to beat Italy 33-17. Italy ahead at half time.
Murray's a big loss though. WIth Murray I'd have given their tight five / pack some degree of parity. WIthout him, you have to think England could have an important edge.
Going to be a huge game, though. I'll take England by no more than 7 points.
Wales to beat Ireland 25-19. The siege mentality will get them through one game, and I hate picking any side to win if John Hayes is playing in it.
France to beat Italy 33-17. Italy ahead at half time.
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My T Sharp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1931
- Joined: 16 May 2004, 13:32
1600: William Hill have shortened the price of Ireland beating Wales on Sunday from 4/11 to 2/7 as rumours of discontent in the Welsh camp continue to circulate.
Wales are now offered at 5/2 to win, with the draw offered at 20/1. Hills have also lengthened the odds of Wales winning the Six Nations Championship from 20/1 to 25/1.
"Despite the fact that the Welsh are perhaps the most patriotic punters of the home nations, we cannot give Wales away at the present time," said Hill's spokesman Rupert Adams.
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jomothepure
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2660
- Joined: 24 Oct 2004, 08:43
Well, congratulations to the Scots, they deserved it for that defensive performance.
Once again though, Englands complete lack of invention in the backs has been exposed. Robinson needs to change something there. I'd start with Ollie Smith in at centre, and Varndell on one of the wings. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that view.
Once again though, Englands complete lack of invention in the backs has been exposed. Robinson needs to change something there. I'd start with Ollie Smith in at centre, and Varndell on one of the wings. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that view.
I think its pretty evident it runs deeper than just the personnel, I think its time Joe lyDon went we need a a new backs coach (and a new head coach if truth be known). Id have brian ashton in as backs coach.states wrote:Well, congratulations to the Scots, they deserved it for that defensive performance.
Once again though, Englands complete lack of invention in the backs has been exposed. Robinson needs to change something there. I'd start with Ollie Smith in at centre, and Varndell on one of the wings. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that view.
Id play barkley at inside centre when if he is fit, lewsey at outside, Votyce fullback and Varndell in for cohen.
thats a back line with what we are presently lacking........ pace.
Stuart barnes summed it up when he said we effectively have 5 fast openside flankers in the back line at the moment.
I thought the wales game flattered to deceive England and its true.
Credit to the scots though what a defensive performance!
my only saving grace is we wont have to listen to the welsh as they were worse than england.
Sorry to the welsh lads but outside the first 20 you lot were a shambles on Sunday, in fact play like that agianst italy and it could be grandslam to wooden spoon in a year..
From BBC Sport.
Wales rugby team honours Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe will lead the Wales rugby team out against Italy
World boxing champion Joe Calzaghe will lead the Wales rugby team out at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday for their RBS Six Nations match with Italy.
The 33-year-old super middleweight from Newbridge destroyed rival champion Jeff Lacy last weekend to add the American's IBF title to his own WBO belt.
Welsh Rugby Union chief executive Steve Lewis said:"The Wales team wanted to find some way to pay their tribute.
"They felt it would be appropriate for him to lead them out against Italy."
Calzaghe is a proud Welshman but, like Wales lock Robert Sidoli, can trace his ancestry back to Italy.
The boxer's father and trainer, Enzo, was born in Sardinia before emigrating to Britain to start a new life and family.
Joe is a source of inspiration to fellow professional sportsmen
WRU chief Steve Lewis
"I'm sure the Welsh and Italian fans will give him a rousing reception," Lewis added.
"Joe's stunning performance in Manchester last weekend was heralded as one of the greatest of all time by a British boxer and it was one of the finest sporting displays ever by a Welsh athlete.
"We have honoured other great sportsmen and women at the Millennium Stadium before - Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson joined the team after her great performances at the Olympics.
"Joe is a hero to all Welsh sports fans and is a constant source of inspiration to fellow professional sportsmen like the Welsh players."
Calzaghe started his professional boxing career at the old Cardiff Arms Park, knocking out Paul Hanlon in the first round on the undercard of the Lennox Lewis against Frank Bruno bill on 1 October 1993.
So Wales will be hoping that Calzaghe can inspire the rugby team to deliver that knock-out blow against the Azzurri.
Lewis and Millennium Stadium chief executive Paul Sergeant revealed they hope to entice Calzaghe and promoter allegedly into staging his next defence at the Millennium Stadium.
Warren has said that Calzaghe's next defence will be in Cardiff - he has also fought at the Cardiff International Arena and in the grounds of Cardiff Castle - on 8 July.
Wales rugby team honours Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe will lead the Wales rugby team out against Italy
World boxing champion Joe Calzaghe will lead the Wales rugby team out at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday for their RBS Six Nations match with Italy.
The 33-year-old super middleweight from Newbridge destroyed rival champion Jeff Lacy last weekend to add the American's IBF title to his own WBO belt.
Welsh Rugby Union chief executive Steve Lewis said:"The Wales team wanted to find some way to pay their tribute.
"They felt it would be appropriate for him to lead them out against Italy."
Calzaghe is a proud Welshman but, like Wales lock Robert Sidoli, can trace his ancestry back to Italy.
The boxer's father and trainer, Enzo, was born in Sardinia before emigrating to Britain to start a new life and family.
Joe is a source of inspiration to fellow professional sportsmen
WRU chief Steve Lewis
"I'm sure the Welsh and Italian fans will give him a rousing reception," Lewis added.
"Joe's stunning performance in Manchester last weekend was heralded as one of the greatest of all time by a British boxer and it was one of the finest sporting displays ever by a Welsh athlete.
"We have honoured other great sportsmen and women at the Millennium Stadium before - Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson joined the team after her great performances at the Olympics.
"Joe is a hero to all Welsh sports fans and is a constant source of inspiration to fellow professional sportsmen like the Welsh players."
Calzaghe started his professional boxing career at the old Cardiff Arms Park, knocking out Paul Hanlon in the first round on the undercard of the Lennox Lewis against Frank Bruno bill on 1 October 1993.
So Wales will be hoping that Calzaghe can inspire the rugby team to deliver that knock-out blow against the Azzurri.
Lewis and Millennium Stadium chief executive Paul Sergeant revealed they hope to entice Calzaghe and promoter allegedly into staging his next defence at the Millennium Stadium.
Warren has said that Calzaghe's next defence will be in Cardiff - he has also fought at the Cardiff International Arena and in the grounds of Cardiff Castle - on 8 July.
SORRY MATE WAS IN THE NEW JOB LAST WEEK SO NOT POSTING. 
BACK THIS WEEK TO MY OLD JOB!
WELL WHAT A BLOODY WEEKEND.
Its hard to tell who is in worse shape England or wales.
I can make excuses for wales though, lots of injuries and new coach what are englands, fornicate we have some real issues here.
Let me start at the beginning cos yest was probaly the worst display in recent memory form an English side..everyone is going to be shouting for Robbo's head and maybe that has some credence but if we look harder we can see that the problem runs deeper through the game than just blaming the head coach.
1. Too much rugby.
there are too many games at the moment, players are playing 12 months a year (nearly) and they are knackered. There are too many competetions with a full league programme of 22 games (plus play offs), european cup that can be 10 or more games, powergen cup another possible 6 games add to this 3 autumn internationals, 5 six nations games and then summer tours and the top players can be playing in excess of 40-50 games a year.
Its too many. We have too many competitions. We need to look at how the european cup sides are being played, can you imagine the Super 14 teams all playing that comp and playing a full league programme it doesnt happen.
Not only are the players shattered and over rugbied the hectic schedule leads to point number two.
2. Lack of training.
None! not the players at their clubs but team england blatantly dont have enough time to manage to get the moves and drills correctly ironed out.
When will the RFU learn and start spreading some of their wealth to buy the top players some time in Camp England.
A well drilled and trained side at least stands a chance, its obvious that this England side hardly know what the frigg the next guy is gonna do and have no adaptability outside their initial gameplan.
3. Coaches
Im wondering whether the rugby league influence is now beocming counter productive, the defensive and attacking lines are typical of rugby league but its too lateral and its been worked out . Lydon has to take some of the grief for the lack of attacking flair in the backs, he is the man charged with being our backs coach.
Great player as he was he is a rugby league player, why is he coaching union skills to our national team? Larder great servant that he has been its ime to take a new approach and if we keep robinson, one at least or both of these men have to go.
4. Quality of players.
The tight five are a challenge for anyone , the linout has improved and I would be hard pushed to find better players to repesent Engalnd however when we get othe back row we can see its not always a case of picking your best players, you need balance.
What we have at present is effectivley 3 blind side flankers, who bring lots of grunt but little or no subtlety, the lack of a link man between forwards and backs is glaring as is the amount of ball we turn over at the ruck ,nainlyc down to not having an out and out open side.
Moody is a blind side and a damn fine one so lets play him there, we need to bring in a proper open side flanker, perhaps Lund he is young and quick so lets him a go, Id also have Forrester in the sqaud, lhe brings something different to the likes of Corry and Dally he has hands like Tony diprose just quicker.
Scrum half is a problem, we dont have a world class scrum half, whether we stick with Ellis or not Im not sure but is no good digging up a 65 year old matt dawson.
Id be inclined to pick perry from bristol to give him a go.
Hodgeson on his day is fine fly half yesterday they got to him due to poor protections, slow ball,and piss poor passing.
Tindell OR noon not both. nuff said.
Wingers, arent wingers supposed to be quick? If so why the f*ck is Varndell not playing, sure he is defensively suspect but get the lad in, he is in form and he has that intangible and untrainable quality of electric pace.
He gets cohen place for me.
5. Running lines
Too lateral not deep enough and take the bloody ball at pace.
Again the rugby league influence is in evidence here.
iTS NOTHE SAME GAME SO DONT TREAT IT AS SUCH PLEASE.
6. The bench.
Much is being made of the use of the bench, ok thats fine when you are winning to bring on Dally et all fo the last 20 against Italy is fine, but what happens when its going wrOng like yesterday?
Dally doesnt bring anything different to Corry or WorsLey, Dawson nothing different to ellis other than experience both are running scrum halves with piss poor passes.
Why not be intelligent and mix it up, a forrester or varndell on the bench yesterday would have been ideal, Erinle to bring on as an impact player, instead we just keep piling more fo the same on, its not intelligent.
in fact is downeright thick.
think that will do for now there is more I coudl go into but i dont want to bore you furtrher. Thats enough in my mind to be going on with and if they dont remedy all if these issues i can see us going out of the world cup at the q-final stage.
BACK THIS WEEK TO MY OLD JOB!
WELL WHAT A BLOODY WEEKEND.
Its hard to tell who is in worse shape England or wales.
I can make excuses for wales though, lots of injuries and new coach what are englands, fornicate we have some real issues here.
Let me start at the beginning cos yest was probaly the worst display in recent memory form an English side..everyone is going to be shouting for Robbo's head and maybe that has some credence but if we look harder we can see that the problem runs deeper through the game than just blaming the head coach.
1. Too much rugby.
there are too many games at the moment, players are playing 12 months a year (nearly) and they are knackered. There are too many competetions with a full league programme of 22 games (plus play offs), european cup that can be 10 or more games, powergen cup another possible 6 games add to this 3 autumn internationals, 5 six nations games and then summer tours and the top players can be playing in excess of 40-50 games a year.
Its too many. We have too many competitions. We need to look at how the european cup sides are being played, can you imagine the Super 14 teams all playing that comp and playing a full league programme it doesnt happen.
Not only are the players shattered and over rugbied the hectic schedule leads to point number two.
2. Lack of training.
None! not the players at their clubs but team england blatantly dont have enough time to manage to get the moves and drills correctly ironed out.
When will the RFU learn and start spreading some of their wealth to buy the top players some time in Camp England.
A well drilled and trained side at least stands a chance, its obvious that this England side hardly know what the frigg the next guy is gonna do and have no adaptability outside their initial gameplan.
3. Coaches
Im wondering whether the rugby league influence is now beocming counter productive, the defensive and attacking lines are typical of rugby league but its too lateral and its been worked out . Lydon has to take some of the grief for the lack of attacking flair in the backs, he is the man charged with being our backs coach.
Great player as he was he is a rugby league player, why is he coaching union skills to our national team? Larder great servant that he has been its ime to take a new approach and if we keep robinson, one at least or both of these men have to go.
4. Quality of players.
The tight five are a challenge for anyone , the linout has improved and I would be hard pushed to find better players to repesent Engalnd however when we get othe back row we can see its not always a case of picking your best players, you need balance.
What we have at present is effectivley 3 blind side flankers, who bring lots of grunt but little or no subtlety, the lack of a link man between forwards and backs is glaring as is the amount of ball we turn over at the ruck ,nainlyc down to not having an out and out open side.
Moody is a blind side and a damn fine one so lets play him there, we need to bring in a proper open side flanker, perhaps Lund he is young and quick so lets him a go, Id also have Forrester in the sqaud, lhe brings something different to the likes of Corry and Dally he has hands like Tony diprose just quicker.
Scrum half is a problem, we dont have a world class scrum half, whether we stick with Ellis or not Im not sure but is no good digging up a 65 year old matt dawson.
Id be inclined to pick perry from bristol to give him a go.
Hodgeson on his day is fine fly half yesterday they got to him due to poor protections, slow ball,and piss poor passing.
Tindell OR noon not both. nuff said.
Wingers, arent wingers supposed to be quick? If so why the f*ck is Varndell not playing, sure he is defensively suspect but get the lad in, he is in form and he has that intangible and untrainable quality of electric pace.
He gets cohen place for me.
5. Running lines
Too lateral not deep enough and take the bloody ball at pace.
Again the rugby league influence is in evidence here.
iTS NOTHE SAME GAME SO DONT TREAT IT AS SUCH PLEASE.
6. The bench.
Much is being made of the use of the bench, ok thats fine when you are winning to bring on Dally et all fo the last 20 against Italy is fine, but what happens when its going wrOng like yesterday?
Dally doesnt bring anything different to Corry or WorsLey, Dawson nothing different to ellis other than experience both are running scrum halves with piss poor passes.
Why not be intelligent and mix it up, a forrester or varndell on the bench yesterday would have been ideal, Erinle to bring on as an impact player, instead we just keep piling more fo the same on, its not intelligent.
in fact is downeright thick.
think that will do for now there is more I coudl go into but i dont want to bore you furtrher. Thats enough in my mind to be going on with and if they dont remedy all if these issues i can see us going out of the world cup at the q-final stage.
J, I think every point you make is bang on the money.
Frankly, no team has played 'well' in this championship but at least the Jocks and the Italians have played with some heart. The Welsh, frankly, are a disgrace. The English are just so utterly one-dimensionally rubbish it's not true. The Irish lack a spark and the French are getting by because everyone else is ordinary.
As far as England goes, Robinson's simply not impressed me at all. Brian Ashton? Anyone?
So many players not playing well / well enough: Thompson, Borthwick, Worsley, any scrum half, Tindall, Cohen. He picks Stevens for his mobility whilst picking a back five of the scrummage that's as a collective one of the slowest we could have. Just don't understand that.
Fundamentally, he needs to combine old stagers with young blood and to do it sensibly: Shaw is a great old hand to play alongside someone like Brown in the second row. White's doing a job up front but let's look at Mears or Chuter, and Freshwater deserves at least a trot against the Paddies. We need an openside - Sanderson's missed but I also like Lund. What's happened to Rees?
Scrum half we're in the shit, so let's see Perry or Richards in. Abbot and Noon are a far more viablecentre partnership, and I like Erinle coming off the bench. Varndell's done nothing wrong, Cohen's done nothing right. Not saying Varndell is the finished article, not by a long poke, but Cohen's yesterday's man and him and Tindall are symptomatic of the lack to imagination, biff-up rugby that works at under 12s but isn't going to break down anything close to a decent defence.
Fundamentally, we need to look at a bunch of new players because this lot looks like they'll be out in the QFs of the World Cup. If they get that far.
And spot on about the bench. Flair players to break a game open. At the moment we've got essentially the same body type from 4 to 14, 9 and 10 excepted. Moderate biffers with average hands. We need to be able to mix it up. Simpson-Daniel, Erinle, Forrester, Jones, anybody that's not the same cloned ruddy player who can only play the same basic pattern that's the only thing drilled into them at training.
Frankly, no team has played 'well' in this championship but at least the Jocks and the Italians have played with some heart. The Welsh, frankly, are a disgrace. The English are just so utterly one-dimensionally rubbish it's not true. The Irish lack a spark and the French are getting by because everyone else is ordinary.
As far as England goes, Robinson's simply not impressed me at all. Brian Ashton? Anyone?
So many players not playing well / well enough: Thompson, Borthwick, Worsley, any scrum half, Tindall, Cohen. He picks Stevens for his mobility whilst picking a back five of the scrummage that's as a collective one of the slowest we could have. Just don't understand that.
Fundamentally, he needs to combine old stagers with young blood and to do it sensibly: Shaw is a great old hand to play alongside someone like Brown in the second row. White's doing a job up front but let's look at Mears or Chuter, and Freshwater deserves at least a trot against the Paddies. We need an openside - Sanderson's missed but I also like Lund. What's happened to Rees?
Scrum half we're in the shit, so let's see Perry or Richards in. Abbot and Noon are a far more viablecentre partnership, and I like Erinle coming off the bench. Varndell's done nothing wrong, Cohen's done nothing right. Not saying Varndell is the finished article, not by a long poke, but Cohen's yesterday's man and him and Tindall are symptomatic of the lack to imagination, biff-up rugby that works at under 12s but isn't going to break down anything close to a decent defence.
Fundamentally, we need to look at a bunch of new players because this lot looks like they'll be out in the QFs of the World Cup. If they get that far.
And spot on about the bench. Flair players to break a game open. At the moment we've got essentially the same body type from 4 to 14, 9 and 10 excepted. Moderate biffers with average hands. We need to be able to mix it up. Simpson-Daniel, Erinle, Forrester, Jones, anybody that's not the same cloned ruddy player who can only play the same basic pattern that's the only thing drilled into them at training.
I didn't see the French game so I don't know how the individuals played, but in answer to the bench problem - Lawrence Dalliglio is still a league above Martin Corry. I thought it was a wise decision of Robinson to intergrate him back slowly to the international scheme of things, but now its time he got the nod at Number 8 - or maybe 6 at the expense of Worsley.
He shouldn't be captain, but I think he should now start.
He shouldn't be captain, but I think he should now start.
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
regarding england the pack in my eyes is competative, its a good pack but i do agree with j in that we need a ball handelling 7, like a young neil back when he had the foppish long hair or a wilson type, to help link the forwards and backs.
the backs are a disgrace full stop, the handelling skills are almost non existant as are the clever running lines. they cant even convert 5 on 2 overlaps for goodness sake. they havent a clue what their team mates are doing, i noticed hodgson lying flat putting up the garry owen when the centers where miles back and had to run about twenty yards just to get to the gain line. if our backs manage to put it through the hands and get it to the winger without dropping the ball or knocking on its a minor miracle -i`ve never seen as many knock ons at amateur level, never mind international level.
at the time i thought guscott and carling were decent centres but not world beaters like the ella brothers or horan and little but they are absolute light years ahead of these goons.
the backs are a disgrace full stop, the handelling skills are almost non existant as are the clever running lines. they cant even convert 5 on 2 overlaps for goodness sake. they havent a clue what their team mates are doing, i noticed hodgson lying flat putting up the garry owen when the centers where miles back and had to run about twenty yards just to get to the gain line. if our backs manage to put it through the hands and get it to the winger without dropping the ball or knocking on its a minor miracle -i`ve never seen as many knock ons at amateur level, never mind international level.
at the time i thought guscott and carling were decent centres but not world beaters like the ella brothers or horan and little but they are absolute light years ahead of these goons.
If England play anywhere near the way they did yesterday then I think we will stuff you at Twickenham. However there will surely be a backlash of some sort. I think that the defending from England (constantly backing off and not facing up to the ball is an open invitation to the likes of Murphy O'Driscoll etc. to really attack and hurt the English team. But with the way this tournament has gone coupled with our poor form at Twickenham in the past Who Knows? 
Head Hunter.
Pains me to say it - but Jeremy Guscott is one of the greatest centres of all time IMO. I think would walk into an all time British side.
Carling, he bordered on the world class (really pains me to say it) but was probably a bit too one dimensional to be called a great centre. Certainly no Gibbs.
Pains me to say it - but Jeremy Guscott is one of the greatest centres of all time IMO. I think would walk into an all time British side.
Carling, he bordered on the world class (really pains me to say it) but was probably a bit too one dimensional to be called a great centre. Certainly no Gibbs.
sacrilige against jerry the prince of centres guscott!Coconut wrote:That Gibbs - Guscott combination was the stuff of dreams. Potentially only Gibbs - O'Driscoll could have bettered that in the last 20 years.
And I also don't like Guscott.
Mick Cleary in the Tellygraff today advocating a recall for Mike Catt at 12.
what a player.
one of my faves being a bath lad, along with Jean Peirre Rive, Serge blanco and Jerome Gallion, probably my fave players of all time.