Best lifts for improving punching power?

[littlepug]

1. Lifting weights doesn't automatically make you bulky. You can gain strength/power/speed without gaining that much muscle. That shows you aren't that knowledgeable on the subject.

2. Justin Fortune comments that he has his fighters use weights. Most of them are below 154.

3. I'd take professional trainers/boxers saying weights can work for a boxer over someone on a boxing forum who probably isn't even in the boxrec database.

1. I know just don't think its necessary
2. Good for him I still don't think its necessary
3.yes I am

I was waiting for the 'your opinion is nothing cos your not a former fighter' jibe

Ha ha I had forgot all about this thread

[Kalan]

Well, it's very important not to overdo weight training or tire your muscles out.

Some boxers quit doing weights because they feel tired and their boxing workout doesn't feel good... Remember that getting strong takes months and years and not weeks or 1 training camp... You start very slow and in 7 years you'll be stronger than Hell.. Use the tortoise versus the hare principle - don't try to do it overnight... Say your weight program is 15 weight exercises for biceps, triceps, lower back, abs, obliques, quads, neck etc, and one exercise is dumbbell bench presses for the triceps.

Say you start with 80 pound dumbbells and you can press them 5 times with pretty good form and speed.. It's important to stop the set when your speed and form diminish at all.. Do 1 set every day 6 days a week.. It doesn't seem like you're doing anything or could possibly be getting stronger, but you're acclimating the muscle.. The next week do 2 sets but do them every other day for 3 days a week... in 2 more weeks add another set...you're doing 3 sets... When you work it up to 3 sets of 10 quick reps add weight...try 90lb dumbbells or 100-pounders.. Whatever brings you back down to 5 quick reps... You work that new weight up to 10 reps and then add weight again... Keep a log. When you plateau for a couple months add a rest day -- and start dividing the different exercises into different days.. It's important to monitor your progress and change it up whenever you plateau. Never rep out.. Never go to failure.. Don't tire yourself out.. Use a strength trainer who doesn't push you.. Get rid of any that push you such as "Give me one more rep.. Come on"

That's all fine and dandy for powerlifting and getting stronger over time but what should fighters be doing now? That is why I say calisthenics.

I find that strength trainers who push you are needed. Nobody really know how much they can do. When I'm at the gym and we're doing calisthenics coach says do as many as you can and I find that I do more when coach is standing over me yelling "Down... Down... Down!" I can do 50 straight when exhausted but when alone with only me to push myself I stop after 20 or 30 even though I feel that is the most I can do. It's all psychological.

DW over the years you've been an apologist for strength training it helps develop intelligence and now as an accomplished scientist your trashing all the scientific studies which took years of dedicated study?

Strength trainers who push you wear you out.. You need weight training for Boxing.. Try to be smooth, fast, and powerful with your weight training.. Stop when you lose form and speed because you're exhausting the muscle and making it grow with every rep after that.. You don't want body builder sized muscles. You want compact, dense, responsive, and explosive muscles.. You should be able to spar 4 hours after a weight workout, and not lose any effectiveness due to muscles that are exhausted and need undue rest for days on end. Alternate weight training days with body weight days and plyometrics days.. pull-ups..push-ups, obliques, back extensions, sit-ups and stuff like that... "bar stars" kind of workouts build great arm strength and endurance.

[Taichi]

That's all fine and dandy for powerlifting and getting stronger over time but what should fighters be doing now? That is why I say calisthenics.

I find that strength trainers who push you are needed. Nobody really know how much they can do. When I'm at the gym and we're doing calisthenics coach says do as many as you can and I find that I do more when coach is standing over me yelling "Down... Down... Down!" I can do 50 straight when exhausted but when alone with only me to push myself I stop after 20 or 30 even though I feel that is the most I can do. It's all psychological.

DW over the years you've been an apologist for strength training it helps develop intelligence and now as an accomplished scientist your trashing all the scientific studies which took years of dedicated study?

Strength trainers who push you wear you out.. You need weight training for Boxing.. Try to be smooth, fast, and powerful with your weight training.

Excellent advice for reps! Never heard it put that way.
What if DW says that weights or increased poundage have no bearing incomparasion to plyometrics? In that muscle can only strengthen so far until the increased poundage becomes detrimental to muscle fibres thereby increasing the risk of injury.
Does poundage equate to enhanced sport performance?

[Kalan]

DW over the years you've been an apologist for strength training it helps develop intelligence and now as an accomplished scientist your trashing all the scientific studies which took years of dedicated study?

Strength trainers who push you wear you out.. You need weight training for Boxing.. Try to be smooth, fast, and powerful with your weight training.

Excellent advice for reps! Never heard it put that way.
What if DW says that weights or increased poundage have no bearing incomparasion to plyometrics? In that muscle can only strengthen so far until the increased poundage becomes detrimental to muscle fibres thereby increasing the risk of injury.
Does poundage equate to enhanced sport performance?

You have to be careful about increasing poundage.. Yes, your muscle can only strengthen so far because you're never going to use 300-pound dumbbells.. Your goal is not to keep increasing your strength forever---but to reach your maximum individual potential in say 7 or 8 years if you start at 20, and try to maintain it for 10 or 12 years.. So when you reach a goal at one weight, don't immediately increase poundage.. Make sure you're doing that weight dynamically and quickly first so it's almost easy for you. And when you increase weights you do it for a specific number of reps, say drop from 15 to 10 reps or from 10 down to 6.. This is the hardest part to get right because you may go from 90 pound dumbbells presses and try 110, 120, 115 and settle on 117'.5 after a couple workouts.. Your body will take it's time adapting to the new weight and lower reps before you actually start getting stronger and moving your reps up again.. The important thing to remember is "Train. Don't Strain."

When you alternate with Plyometrics you're using body weight which is pretty stable.. So you have to use your imagination to find new levels of difficulty or you won't get stronger.. If you're doing push-ups where you explode off the floor as far as you can -- after a year or so practice hand stands and walking on your hands until your balance and strength are so great you can drive yourself off the floor while doing a handstand push-up, which will take a couple more years maybe.. Or if that's too difficult put your feet up on a chair or table and try to explode off the floor.. Checkout some of the "bar stars" on youtube, because those are great exercises to increase strength and flexibility.. Just make sure you don't go crazy and work within your capability..

[Taichi]

Excellent advice for reps! Never heard it put that way.
What if DW says that weights or increased poundage have no bearing incomparasion to plyometrics? In that muscle can only strengthen so far until the increased poundage becomes detrimental to muscle fibres thereby increasing the risk of injury.
Does poundage equate to enhanced sport performance?

You have to be careful about increasing poundage.. Yes, your muscle can only strengthen so far because you're never going to use 300-pound dumbbells.. Your goal is not to keep increasing your strength forever---but to reach your maximum individual potential in say

7 or 8 years if you start at 20, and try to maintain it for 10 or 12 years.

.
Superforecasting love it.

So when you reach a goal at one weight, don't immediately increase poundage.. Make sure you're doing that weight dynamically and quickly first so it's almost easy for you. And when you increase weights you do it for a specific number of reps, say drop from
Shouldn't isolated movements be superior such as bodybuilding allowing you to target individual muscle? Mike metger used machines to isolate muscle. Why not just do 1 rep?

[Kalan]

Because you're not a body builder, you're an athlete... Strength is only one quality of a muscle you're trying to improve on.. responsiveness and explosiveness are just as important.. Also you don't want the muscle to tear and you don't want size and added weight if possible.. You want a very dense, hard, strong muscle that has some smoothness and subtleness to it as well.. You don't need to be ripped to shreds -- and if you're not a heavyweight you need to make weight.

[Taichi]

Because you're not a body builder, you're an athlete... Strength is only one quality of a muscle you're trying to improve on.. responsiveness and explosiveness are just as important.. Also you don't want the muscle to tear and you don't want size and added weight if possible.. You want a very dense, hard, strong muscle that has some smoothness and subtleness to it as well.. You don't need to be ripped to shreds -- and if you're not a heavyweight you need to make weight.

You obviously know your stuff well...
Yes I realize that one rep increases the risk of injury, henceforth not suitable for developing fighters. Something which is new too me is the idea muscle thickens with 1 rep why is that?

[Kalan]

Yeah…that’s kind of interesting... Because if you’re doing one rep that’s like a weight lifting competition. Your mind is more focused, concentrated and energized for the single rep. Maybe every 3 or 4 months you want so see what your 1-rep strength is. Maybe that is good, but maybe that’s just ego talking and you don’t need that to sidetrack you.

A weight lifting competition is one rep at a time of course... Because you're so psyched from the spectators and competitors your adrenaline is pumped for each lift.. Your body is getting a good workout even if it's not doing much work.. Because the intensity is so much greater than a normal workout.

A shot putting, javelin throwing, pole vaulting, or discus throwing competition will leave you exhilarated as well if you’re doing really well.. They involve weights of sorts.. If you doing tremendously well you will find you’re stronger with your next practice.. Just because your mind was so focused and active for those single reps it drove your body to new limits. Maybe you’re stronger as a result.

[Taichi]

Yeah…that’s kind of interesting... Because if you’re doing one rep that’s like a weight lifting competition. Your mind is more focused, concentrated and energized for the single rep. Maybe every 3 or 4 months you want so see what your 1-rep strength is. Maybe that is good, but maybe that’s just ego talking and you don’t need that to sidetrack you.

A weight lifting competition is one rep at a time of course... Because you're so psyched from the spectators and competitors your adrenaline is pumped for each lift.. Your body is getting a good workout even if it's not doing much work.. Because the intensity is so much greater than a normal workout.

A shot putting, javelin throwing, pole vaulting, or discus throwing competition will leave you exhilarated as well if you’re doing really well.. They involve weights of sorts.. If you doing tremendously well you will find you’re stronger with your next practice.. Just because your mind was so focused and active for those single reps it drove your body to new limits. Maybe you’re stronger as a result.

Strength is the power to resist force, therefore a strong fighter will resist a thrashing whilst going forward and standing in front of his opponent. This is what most trainers fail to realize, strength equates to greater density, producing a durable fighter.

[Kalan]

Strength is a big deal... The top factors in Boxing are overall mastery of boxing skills and elusiveness...which lend to speed...and your cardio conditioning

Strength helps with both assets, because: A boxing glove is a weight of sorts. They're, in effect, lighter and your punches are quicker if your stronger ... Strength indeed helps with endurance because the stronger and more skillful boxer tends to control the center of the ring. Making your weaker and less skilled opponent move around you and dodge out of corners allows you to conserve your energy better and enhance "effective aggressiveness" which is a scoring criterion ... Indeed, strength allows you to resist punishment better ... Muscular strength, responsiveness, and explosiveness overlap. They're intertwined to a degree ... If you're a 6-footer and you have a powerful vertical leap enough to dunk a basketball with ease, you're able to land lightly like a cat and sprint away immediately. For a boxer this type of leg strength and spring gets him into and out of range very quickly and with less energy ... Like advantages in skills or size, a strength advantage helps put you at ease, so your focus is more intense ... Strength helps you master skills, because overall body strength and conditioning help you to follow coaching instructions to the letter with less effort.

[robertaboone100]

Heavy weights don’t teach you to move fast, for some obvious reasons. In fact, many powerlifters doing what they call speed work where we take much lighter weights and practice moving them a lot of faster.
Interestingly, you see many boxers do not lift weights, look as if they do. This is because the fast explosive movement’s in boxing build what called fast twitch muscle fiber. Boxer Tyson had this type of muscle, and it was the reason he was so devastating a puncher.
You can lift weights somewhat polymetrically but then again, you will be training in a way that would maximize what’s called speed strength, but exactly how you would do that, I can’t say.
So, I think the speed aspect of training for boxing, heavy weight training does not train the muscle to have the speed necessary for effective punching.

[Kalan]

Heavy weights don’t teach you to move fast, for some obvious reasons. In fact, many powerlifters doing what they call speed work where we take much lighter weights and practice moving them a lot of faster.
Interestingly, you see many boxers do not lift weights, look as if they do. This is because the fast explosive movement’s in boxing build what called fast twitch muscle fiber. Boxer Tyson had this type of muscle, and it was the reason he was so devastating a puncher.
You can lift weights somewhat polymetrically but then again, you will be training in a way that would maximize what’s called speed strength, but exactly how you would do that, I can’t say.
So, I think the speed aspect of training for boxing, heavy weight training does not train the muscle to have the speed necessary for effective punching.

Why should it??? .... That's not what you're trying to do.... Weight training is a strength workout not a speed workout

You do the presses, curls, pullies, and other weight sets as smoothly and quickly as you can and with great form... You're concentrating very hard on form, smoothness, and speed... You stop the set immediately when you start losing form, smoothness, and speed because you're exhausting the muscle at that point. You don't want to grunt out reps...

This takes tremendous discipline... Your natural instinct is use great exertion to force more reps so you set a new PR.. But you need to be able to do your boxing workout without suffering because of weight training earlier that day or last evening.. You want to stimulate individual muscle fibers and make them stronger.. You don't want to break them down and make them bigger.. That would make you stronger faster, but will also makes you heavier which you don't want.

Your hand speed workouts are the focus pad workouts... speed bag... double-end bag... heavy bag... and sparring... The more skills you acquire at Boxing, the greater balance you have, the more precise your combinations and the quicker your feet the faster you are... Your foot speed workouts are the skip rope... ladder... wind sprints... one legged sprints where you're hopping as quickly on one leg as you can forward and backward.. Various workouts increase speed.

Speed workouts are for speed.... Strength training is for strength... Don't confuse them -- one enhances the other.

[Kevkev]

Do compound lifts deadlift, squat. do them quickly with weight that you can control and move quickly I'd recommend a 10x3 or a 10x5 I'm not a personal trainer just that these exercises will target the muscles in a punch. deadlift targets your back while the squat will target your legs. big legs and a strong back will equal a destructive punch.

[Winter king]

I am a powerlifter who does boxing out of hobby and I can tell you that one sided kettlebell clean and jerks are pretty good for working on your explosive hip and arm movement. Probably deadlifts and sqauts good for hip power. The main pro though is that very few people can shrug you of if you stick them in the corner or in-fighting generally. If you look at tyson vs holyfield or foreman vs frazier you see the rare cases in boxing where strength is a deceisive factor. The vast con is gas tank. even after years im out after 3 rounds.

[punchy1]

cool thread.
here is what I have seen and done in my 22 fight pro career...

I train with weights. Always have since even before high school wrestling days ...

Low reps for power/ strength. Compound big movements. Bench, squat, deadlift, press... I "ramp up" or pyramid up with the weights until my last few working sets are in the 2-3 range.

I feel by pyramiding up this gives me those light (for warm up) and medium reps for strength and some size, in addition to performance.

Power is generated from the floor they say, and if your muscle is strong enough to transfer that power and lose as little as possible as it goes up the feet through the "kinetic chain" I believe this will aid that power and translate to less lost, and more expressed at the end of the whip (fist) of that kinetic chain.

Certain muscles have different functions relatively speaking. A large muscular shoulder girdle (neck particularly, traps, and shoulders) will absorb force/energy like a cushion. Wont contribute directly to sheer punching power.

Larger calves can transmit more force, but seeing as they are primarily slow twitch muscle bellies, I am not sure they such an advantage (Naseem Hamed had monster calves and hit like a middleweight, some other guys have those save calves but do not punch as hard, probably a combination of high arches, good foot structure, and being movers)

Muscular body-weight has to be of use, or else a boxer is in a weight class without the proper advantages. Technique is king, but resistance training can help, I feel.

Also don't overlook "Russian Shock Training" I find it high injury but very much worth it.

[Mark E]

For the strength of the puncher, it is important to have strong hands .

The impact strength is mainly lost when the hand contacts the target. At this time the fighter’s hand is under enormous load. In order to crush your opponent, you have to punch a little deeper into the target and at the same time reduce the reverse inertia of the blow not to let your hand damp in the wrist, elbow, shoulder and shoulder blade. And this is the crucial moment when stabilizing muscles start working. They fix your hand turning it into a monolith when it touches the target.

[Mark E]

Arthur Beterbiev Training

[Mark E]

[Delta Jay]

Arthur Beterbiev Training

That man is a monster! My mouth fell open watching that, no wonder he bangs like he does

[Monzon83]

I would only ever train the Olympic lifts for boxing. Cleans, snatches, pulls, power jerks of all kinds and usually at 60-70% of 1RM. Train for speed, power and explosiveness. Maximal strength can be tested periodically in a carefully planned training cycle.
But it takes several years to develop these lifts with correct technique. Which most boxers don't have time to learn and you definitely need qualified coaching.

Those videos of Beterbiev make me think if he hadn't discovered boxing i bet he could be an elite Olympic Weightlifter.

[margaret thatcher]

Lol, love the 'bet you're not even a boxer' bit earlier with puggy

[TempleSlave]

I would only ever train the Olympic lifts for boxing. Cleans, snatches, pulls, power jerks of all kinds and usually at 60-70% of 1RM. Train for speed, power and explosiveness. Maximal strength can be tested periodically in a carefully planned training cycle.
But it takes several years to develop these lifts with correct technique. Which most boxers don't have time to learn and you definitely need qualified coaching.

Those videos of Beterbiev make me think if he hadn't discovered boxing i bet he could be an elite Olympic Weightlifter.

Dude. What’s the carryover from snatch to a punch, movement-wise?

[AngryGoon38]

Crush-Grip seems to be a nice solid core ignitor, for overall physical benefits, including the basic boxing punches.
Wrist-Roller and one handed baseball-bat swings. I've used two bats before. It definitely adds another dimension to ones punching capacities. Resistance bands are obviously quite good as well. Probably one of the best weightlifting movements to assist with punching power would be db hammer curls, and reverse curls. Basic bodyweight squats and lunge stretching seems to be sufficient for the legs, helping them to correlate properly into the power-punches.

[1057147]

Plyometric pushups help to improve the explosive strength and speed in your shoulders, arms, and chest