Why Joshua Should Be Considered An Alltime Great

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undefeated fighters are the best, just ask floyd. thats why floyd never respected pac, cause he lost early in c areer.

Agreed.

I've always said that Andrew Flintoff doesn't get nearly enough credit.

[Kalan]

Drop the first 2 names.. and you forgot Dillian Whyte ... He was undefeated as well -- and a better performer than the above undefeated guy..

And that's a better lineup than having Light Heavyweight Doug Jones and 185-pound Henry Cooper (both of whom suffered multiple losses before they punched Ali with really nice shots) as your last opponents before heading into a big fight with an aging legend... We won't talk about Eric Molina.

People rip Joshua for whatever reasons... but it's not who he fought so much, but how easily he destroyed these guys.

I agree, and people put Golovkin in P4P lists for the same reason..

Look at you jackasses comparing Joshua to GGG. Please. Why can't you just let this kid Joshua settle into in whatever place in history he is going to have? He hasn't had any fights nearly as difficult as GGG has. Jackasses.

Because people don't agree on anybody's place in history... But you do have hyped up Heavyweight legends who got socked to the canvas multiple times by little guys and and knocked out or beaten by massive underdogs... Guys like Louis, Ali, and Tyson come to mind... So right now AJ has 18 professional fights and he's fighting a man with well over 20 Heavyweight Championship Fights -- and he has had 3... So lets see what happens to him, and if it's what happened to other ATG's as they were in their learning stages.

Wladimir looked pretty damned clumsy and inept fighting Corrie Sanders in his 43rd professional fight. For an ATG he certainly didn't have his skills down.. Joshua has as few professional rounds as Kiltschko had fights at the time -- and he doesn't seem to have any holes in his defense. Pretty amazing.

[caldo2025]

[/b]
I agree, and people put Golovkin in P4P lists for the same reason..

Look at you jackasses comparing Joshua to GGG. Please. Why can't you just let this kid Joshua settle into in whatever place in history he is going to have? He hasn't had any fights nearly as difficult as GGG has. Jackasses.

Because people don't agree on anybody's place in history... But you do have hyped up Heavyweight legends who got socked to the canvas multiple times by little guys and and knocked out or beaten by massive underdogs... Guys like Louis, Ali, and Tyson come to mind... So right now AJ has 18 professional fights and he's fighting a man with well over 20 Heavyweight Championship Fights -- and he has had 3... So lets see what happens to him, and if it's what happened to other ATG's as they were in their learning stages.

Wladimir looked pretty damned clumsy and inept fighting Corrie Sanders in his 43rd professional fight. For an ATG he certainly didn't have his skills down.. Joshua has as few professional rounds as Kiltschko had fights at the time -- and he doesn't seem to have any holes in his defense. Pretty amazing.

Every heavyweight prospect starts their careers as undefeated, protected fighters. Boxers careers don't even start until they get to the point that AJ's at right now. He's passed all of the tests with all of his easy fights and this bogus version of the heavyweight belt. Now it's what he does with it from here on out when he steps up in level of competition. Right now we know NOTHING about AJ.

[Hyperion]

Charles Martin wasn't the worst Heavyweight Champion by a long shot.. Had to be Michael Bentt.

A long shot, you say? I'd say it's arguing the toss. But at least Bentt KO'd a legit heavyweight as a massive underdog, in emphatic fashion to win his title before losing it. Charles Martin's win via knee injury for a vacant title dropped by the true heavyweight champion was absolutely pathetic, with his no-show against AJ compounding it worse than Bentt. And as for this "he'd have won anyway" rubbish, it's counter productive reasoning and holds no place in boxing dialogue.

In the end, regardless of who was "worse", any objective observer knows the title Joshua now holds is one of paper. He looks to have the sort of potential of someone who doesn't need belts anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that he was incredibly fortunate to have that belt land in his lap.

He'll also be incredibly fortunate to be fighting a 41 year-old Klitschko, after an embarrassing gun-shy loss, followed by 18 months worth of ring rust, which is incredibly detrimental to older fighters, as we all know.

[TheGingerBomber]

Charles Martin wasn't the worst Heavyweight Champion by a long shot.. Had to be Michael Bentt.

A long shot, you say? I'd say it's arguing the toss. But at least Bentt KO'd a legit heavyweight as a massive underdog, in emphatic fashion to win his title before losing it. Charles Martin's win via knee injury for a vacant title dropped by the true heavyweight champion was absolutely pathetic, with his no-show against AJ compounding it worse than Bentt. And as for this "he'd have won anyway" rubbish, it's counter productive reasoning and holds no place in boxing dialogue.

In the end, regardless of who was "worse", any objective observer knows the title Joshua now holds is one of paper. He looks to have the sort of potential of someone who doesn't need belts anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that he was incredibly fortunate to have that belt land in his lap.

He'll also be incredibly fortunate to be fighting a 41 year-old Klitschko, after an embarrassing gun-shy loss, followed by 18 months worth of ring rust, which is incredibly detrimental to older fighters, as we all know.

Spot on.

I also would note that if AJ was to struggle or lose to Wlad, even though I'd not see it as a surprise, many will, and those many will criticise AJ for struggling or losing to a 41 year old man who like you said, hasn't fought in 18 months.

And I'm an AJ fan but there's truly something to take out of the Whyte fight that could argue his greatness at the moment. Nobody sees Whyte as a future world champ. I do realise however AJ won probably every round against Whyte.

Let me say, (nearly) every fighter in history has had to weather a storm in their early fights, so at least he's got this far.

[Hyperion]

Charles Martin wasn't the worst Heavyweight Champion by a long shot.. Had to be Michael Bentt.

A long shot, you say? I'd say it's arguing the toss. But at least Bentt KO'd a legit heavyweight as a massive underdog, in emphatic fashion to win his title before losing it. Charles Martin's win via knee injury for a vacant title dropped by the true heavyweight champion was absolutely pathetic, with his no-show against AJ compounding it worse than Bentt. And as for this "he'd have won anyway" rubbish, it's counter productive reasoning and holds no place in boxing dialogue.

In the end, regardless of who was "worse", any objective observer knows the title Joshua now holds is one of paper. He looks to have the sort of potential of someone who doesn't need belts anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that he was incredibly fortunate to have that belt land in his lap.

He'll also be incredibly fortunate to be fighting a 41 year-old Klitschko, after an embarrassing gun-shy loss, followed by 18 months worth of ring rust, which is incredibly detrimental to older fighters, as we all know.

Spot on.

I also would note that if AJ was to struggle or lose to Wlad, even though I'd not see it as a surprise, many will, and those many will criticise AJ for struggling or losing to a 41 year old man who like you said, hasn't fought in 18 months.

And I'm an AJ fan but there's truly something to take out of the Whyte fight that could argue his greatness at the moment. Nobody sees Whyte as a future world champ. I do realise however AJ won probably every round against Whyte.

Let me say, (nearly) every fighter in history has had to weather a storm in their early fights, so at least he's got this far.

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one, so I'd like to see Klitschko have something left enough to force some adjustment. AJ's guard and static head is just inviting a good jab to pierce through, with the way he leans onto his front foot also. I'd say Wladimir is most likely physically and mentally shot now, but I hope we at least see what AJ does against an elite jab for a few rounds, and how he deals with things not going his way for a moment. If he struggles but adjusts and eventually dispatches Wlad emphatically (by KO or clear dec) then I'll consider it an incredibly useful fight and good on AJ. Joshua and Hearn chose this fight because they see Wladimir as ripe for the picking, losing or scraping by isn't an option.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

[TheGingerBomber]

A long shot, you say? I'd say it's arguing the toss. But at least Bentt KO'd a legit heavyweight as a massive underdog, in emphatic fashion to win his title before losing it. Charles Martin's win via knee injury for a vacant title dropped by the true heavyweight champion was absolutely pathetic, with his no-show against AJ compounding it worse than Bentt. And as for this "he'd have won anyway" rubbish, it's counter productive reasoning and holds no place in boxing dialogue.

In the end, regardless of who was "worse", any objective observer knows the title Joshua now holds is one of paper. He looks to have the sort of potential of someone who doesn't need belts anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that he was incredibly fortunate to have that belt land in his lap.

He'll also be incredibly fortunate to be fighting a 41 year-old Klitschko, after an embarrassing gun-shy loss, followed by 18 months worth of ring rust, which is incredibly detrimental to older fighters, as we all know.

Spot on.

I also would note that if AJ was to struggle or lose to Wlad, even though I'd not see it as a surprise, many will, and those many will criticise AJ for struggling or losing to a 41 year old man who like you said, hasn't fought in 18 months.

And I'm an AJ fan but there's truly something to take out of the Whyte fight that could argue his greatness at the moment. Nobody sees Whyte as a future world champ. I do realise however AJ won probably every round against Whyte.

Let me say, (nearly) every fighter in history has had to weather a storm in their early fights, so at least he's got this far.

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one, so I'd like to see Klitschko have something left enough to force some adjustment. AJ's guard and static head is just inviting a good jab to pierce through, with the way he leans onto his front foot also. I'd say Wladimir is most likely physically and mentally shot now, but I hope we at least see what AJ does against an elite jab for a few rounds, and how he deals with things not going his way for a moment. If he struggles but adjusts and eventually dispatches Wlad emphatically (by KO or clear dec) then I'll consider it an incredibly useful fight and good on AJ. Joshua and Hearn chose this fight because they see Wladimir as ripe for the picking, losing or scraping by isn't an option.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

Agree completely.

[Enlightened-One]

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one...

He lost the second round of his fight against Dillian Whyte and he’s actually only completed 26 full three minute rounds that could have been scored by the judges.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

Possibly the only thing we've ever agreed on.

[TheGingerBomber]

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one...

He lost the second round of his fight against Dillian Whyte and he’s actually only completed 26 full three minute rounds that could have been scored by the judges.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

Possibly the only thing we've ever agreed on.

That wasn't me? But I do agree that at this stage, it's ridiculous to compare a flawed legend to a big prospect with apparent weaknesses.

[Enlightened-One]

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one...

He lost the second round of his fight against Dillian Whyte and he’s actually only completed 26 full three minute rounds that could have been scored by the judges.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

Possibly the only thing we've ever agreed on.

That wasn't me? But I do agree that at this stage, it's ridiculous to compare a flawed legend to a big prospect with apparent weaknesses.

Apologies. I meant to respond and quote Hyperion's words.

[Best Coast]

If AJ beats Wlad convincingly he will be the top active Brit fighter.

[Enlightened-One]

If AJ beats Wlad convincingly he will be the top active Brit fighter.

So if Anthony Joshua defeats a 41 year old version of Wladimir Klitschko (that was dominated in his most recent contest by Tyson Fury, has been inactive for 1½ years, hasn’t won a fight for two years and hasn’t delivered an impressive performance inside the ring for 2½ years), then you’d rate AJ's accomplishments and sporting stature above fellow Brits like: Carl Frampton, Kell Brook, James DeGale and Amir Khan?

[gilgamesh]

If AJ beats Wlad convincingly he will be the top active Brit fighter.

So if Anthony Joshua defeats a 41 year old version of Wladimir Klitschko (that was dominated in his most recent contest by Tyson Fury, has been inactive for 1½ years, hasn’t won a fight for two years and hasn’t delivered an impressive performance inside the ring for 2½ years), then you’d rate AJ's accomplishments and sporting stature above fellow Brits like: Carl Frampton, Kell Brook, James DeGale and Amir Khan?

I'd already rank him beyond Khan with or without the win over Klitschko.

[Enlightened-One]

If AJ beats Wlad convincingly he will be the top active Brit fighter.

So if Anthony Joshua defeats a 41 year old version of Wladimir Klitschko (that was dominated in his most recent contest by Tyson Fury, has been inactive for 1½ years, hasn’t won a fight for two years and hasn’t delivered an impressive performance inside the ring for 2½ years), then you’d rate AJ's accomplishments and sporting stature above fellow Brits like: Carl Frampton, Kell Brook, James DeGale and Amir Khan?

I'd already rank him beyond Khan with or without the win over Klitschko.

I agree that Khan’s current form is poor, but has AJ achieved more than him? I’d say that Amir has one of the best resumes of all the currently-active Brits, based on the amount of names he’s faced. So there’s a lot more depth, in terms of quality, to his professional record in comparison to Joshua's.

I do concede though, there’s an argument that Joshua would deserve to be elevated above Khan should he get past Klitschko, but he doesn’t deserve to be ranked above him yet.

However, I don’t mind other people currently rate Joshua above Khan in their own pound-for-pound lists, since there’s a decent argument to place him there.

What about the other names I've mentioned? Carl Frampton, Kell Brook and James DeGale?

[gilgamesh]

So if Anthony Joshua defeats a 41 year old version of Wladimir Klitschko (that was dominated in his most recent contest by Tyson Fury, has been inactive for 1½ years, hasn’t won a fight for two years and hasn’t delivered an impressive performance inside the ring for 2½ years), then you’d rate AJ's accomplishments and sporting stature above fellow Brits like: Carl Frampton, Kell Brook, James DeGale and Amir Khan?

I'd already rank him beyond Khan with or without the win over Klitschko.

I agree that Khan’s current form is poor, but has AJ achieved more than him? I’d say that Amir has one of the best resumes of all the currently-active Brits, based on the amount of names he’s faced. So there’s a lot more depth in quality to his professional record in comparison to Joshua's.

I do concede though, there’s an argument that Joshua would deserve to be elevated above Khan should he get past Klitschko, but he doesn’t deserve to be ranked above him yet.

What about the other names I've mentioned? Carl Frampton, Kell Brook and James DeGale?

No he hasn't surpassed them yet, that's why I didn't mention them.

He will though. Degale is only good enough to barely scrape by in all of his fights, and he'll be beaten soon enough.

Kell Brook has the chance to make a big statement against Errol Spence since Spence has already been anointed the next Boxing God to be.

[TheGingerBomber]

He lost the second round of his fight against Dillian Whyte and he’s actually only completed 26 full three minute rounds that could have been scored by the judges.

Possibly the only thing we've ever agreed on.

That wasn't me? But I do agree that at this stage, it's ridiculous to compare a flawed legend to a big prospect with apparent weaknesses.

Apologies. I meant to respond and quote Hyperion's words.

No problem we all make mistakes!

[Kalan]

A long shot, you say? I'd say it's arguing the toss. But at least Bentt KO'd a legit heavyweight as a massive underdog, in emphatic fashion to win his title before losing it. Charles Martin's win via knee injury for a vacant title dropped by the true heavyweight champion was absolutely pathetic, with his no-show against AJ compounding it worse than Bentt. And as for this "he'd have won anyway" rubbish, it's counter productive reasoning and holds no place in boxing dialogue.

In the end, regardless of who was "worse", any objective observer knows the title Joshua now holds is one of paper. He looks to have the sort of potential of someone who doesn't need belts anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that he was incredibly fortunate to have that belt land in his lap.

He'll also be incredibly fortunate to be fighting a 41 year-old Klitschko, after an embarrassing gun-shy loss, followed by 18 months worth of ring rust, which is incredibly detrimental to older fighters, as we all know.

Spot on.

I also would note that if AJ was to struggle or lose to Wlad, even though I'd not see it as a surprise, many will, and those many will criticise AJ for struggling or losing to a 41 year old man who like you said, hasn't fought in 18 months.

And I'm an AJ fan but there's truly something to take out of the Whyte fight that could argue his greatness at the moment. Nobody sees Whyte as a future world champ. I do realise however AJ won probably every round against Whyte.

Let me say, (nearly) every fighter in history has had to weather a storm in their early fights, so at least he's got this far.

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one, so I'd like to see Klitschko have something left enough to force some adjustment. AJ's guard and static head is just inviting a good jab to pierce through, with the way he leans onto his front foot also. I'd say Wladimir is most likely physically and mentally shot now, but I hope we at least see what AJ does against an elite jab for a few rounds, and how he deals with things not going his way for a moment. If he struggles but adjusts and eventually dispatches Wlad emphatically (by KO or clear dec) then I'll consider it an incredibly useful fight and good on AJ. Joshua and Hearn chose this fight because they see Wladimir as ripe for the picking, losing or scraping by isn't an option.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

Well.. you can certainly compare AJ and Ali's punching power, inside game, body attacking skills, and their abilities to attack and cut the ring off, dip under punches and slip punches while carrying the attack to their opponents---AJ being better in all categories---as well as where they are in their respective careers after 18 pro fights, having won Olympic Gold Medals.. Both 18-0 after 18 pro fights With AJ going into his 3rd Heavyweight Title Defense.

Looking at their 18th fights: Ali took some hard shots from Light Heavyweight Doug Jones 21-3-1, in his 18th fight. Ali promised fans he'd score a 4th round KO over the much smaller Jones, "They all fall in the round I call" ..That certainly didn't happen.. Jones lost badly to outstanding Light Heavyweight Champion Harold Johnson, but knocked out top Heavyweight contender Zora Folley in a big upset previous to the Ali fight.. Jones gave Ali (Cassius Clay at the time) everything he wanted, landing several hard blows before losing a disputed 10-round decision to his taller and bigger opponent.

Joshua easily controlled his 6'4" X 238 Heavyweight Title Challenger, Eric Molina 25-3.. AJ stopped Molina in 3 rounds without taking a hard punch... Molina knocked out former 2-Division World Champion Tomasz Adamek in his previous fight -- and went 9 hard rounds with highly hyped undefeated bomber, WBC Heavyweight Champon Deontay Wilder, who was 33-0 with 32 KO wins, 3 fights earlier.. Molina nailed Wilder with some big punches before going out.



Jo

[TheGingerBomber]

Spot on.

I also would note that if AJ was to struggle or lose to Wlad, even though I'd not see it as a surprise, many will, and those many will criticise AJ for struggling or losing to a 41 year old man who like you said, hasn't fought in 18 months.

And I'm an AJ fan but there's truly something to take out of the Whyte fight that could argue his greatness at the moment. Nobody sees Whyte as a future world champ. I do realise however AJ won probably every round against Whyte.

Let me say, (nearly) every fighter in history has had to weather a storm in their early fights, so at least he's got this far.

AJ has been a total front runner so far, and in 44 rounds hasn't lost one, so I'd like to see Klitschko have something left enough to force some adjustment. AJ's guard and static head is just inviting a good jab to pierce through, with the way he leans onto his front foot also. I'd say Wladimir is most likely physically and mentally shot now, but I hope we at least see what AJ does against an elite jab for a few rounds, and how he deals with things not going his way for a moment. If he struggles but adjusts and eventually dispatches Wlad emphatically (by KO or clear dec) then I'll consider it an incredibly useful fight and good on AJ. Joshua and Hearn chose this fight because they see Wladimir as ripe for the picking, losing or scraping by isn't an option.

As for people comparing bits and pieces of AJ to Ali and the past greats at this point in their careers... what a useless conversation that is.

Well.. you can certainly compare AJ and Ali's punching power, inside game, body attacking skills, and their abilities to attack and cut the ring off, dip under punches and slip punches while carrying the attack to their opponents---AJ being better in all categories---as well as where they are in their respective careers after 18 pro fights, having won Olympic Gold Medals.. Both 18-0 after 18 pro fights With AJ going into his 3rd Heavyweight Title Defense.

Looking at their 18th fights: Ali took some hard shots from Light Heavyweight Doug Jones 21-3-1, in his 18th fight. Ali promised fans he'd score a 4th round KO over the much smaller Jones, "They all fall in the round I call" ..That certainly didn't happen.. Jones lost badly to outstanding Light Heavyweight Champion Harold Johnson, but knocked out top Heavyweight contender Zora Folley in a big upset previous to the Ali fight.. Jones gave Ali (Cassius Clay at the time) everything he wanted, landing several hard blows before losing a disputed 10-round decision to his taller and bigger opponent.

Joshua easily controlled his 6'4" X 238 Heavyweight Title Challenger, Eric Molina 25-3.. AJ stopped Molina in 3 rounds without taking a hard punch... Molina knocked out former 2-Division World Champion Tomasz Adamek in his previous fight -- and went 9 hard rounds with highly hyped undefeated bomber, WBC Heavyweight Champon Deontay Wilder, who was 33-0 with 32 KO wins, 3 fights earlier.. Molina nailed Wilder with some big punches before going out.



Jo

It's not bad on paper, neither is Ali's.
I know it's not AJ's fault but only one fighter has hit AJ. Not because of his elusive style, but because his opponents don't fancy it, or fear him. I'd be surprised if Wlad freezes!
Ali's opponents always fancied themselves against him, he got tough fights from so many average Joe's, and yet schooled the fearsome Sonny Liston.
Definitely get where you're coming from though!

[Kalan]

Joshua's opponents certainly fancied hitting him... Breazeale and Martin certain were undefeated and said AJ was over-hyped... They promised to beat Hell out of him.. Dillian Whyte in particular thought AJ was a hype job and promised to knock him out.. Those 3 undefeated guys swung away uselessly.. Joshua hunted them down and showed them the door.

None of those boys knew what they were getting into with Joshua.. Nobody they fought had a real jab.. a right lead and counter.. or an inside game.. When you start getting the trash beaten out of you, you pull your horns in and try to defend the incoming. They couldn't manage that either.. AJ has good vision.. He picked up everything they threw and he knew how how to deal with it.. He spars so many rounds with so many boxers it's unreal.

I think going to Klitschko's camp when he had 7 fights was a good deal for him... He saw how the help was fed and how they were treated.. and what a real training camp looks like not sparing any expense.. Swimming pools, theaters, rec rooms, snack bars, masseurs, trainers and coaches of all kinds.. You spend a good chunk of your money staying on top -- so nobody else can get there.

[TheGingerBomber]

Joshua's opponents certainly fancied hitting him... Breazeale and Martin certain were undefeated and said AJ was over-hyped... They promised to beat Hell out of him.. Dillian Whyte in particular thought AJ was a hype job and promised to knock him out.. Those 3 undefeated guys swung away uselessly.. Joshua hunted them down and showed them the door.

None of those boys knew what they were getting into with Joshua.. Nobody they fought had a real jab.. a right lead and counter.. or an inside game.. When you start getting the trash beaten out of you, you pull your horns in and try to defend the incoming. They couldn't manage that either.. AJ has good vision.. He picked up everything they threw and he knew how how to deal with it.. He spars so many rounds with so many boxers it's unreal.

I think going to Klitschko's camp when he had 7 fights was a good deal for him... He saw how the help was fed and how they were treated.. and what a real training camp looks like not sparing any expense.. Swimming pools, theaters, rec rooms, snack bars, masseurs, trainers and coaches of all kinds.. You spend a good chunk of your money staying on top -- so nobody else can get there.

I've only ever seen AJ show his inside game against Whyte! It was good, no doubt compared to Whyte whom I see as an average boxer.
I'd say Ali showed more than that against Foreman. You might not rate big George but I do!
Breazeale tried and failed in spurts, but nobody ever switched it up, they would be easy pickings for AJ who is no doubt bordering on Elite on the outside or mid range. Klitschko won't offer different style but he's a mike ahead of any boxer out there from distance, barring Fury.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, I'm desperate for Joshua to be the prince that was promised.