World boxing history challenge Week 8 - legends of light flyweight

[davie]

Counter-puncher requested the Chang V Kitikassem fight. So I've decided to go for light fly's today. I'll stick that fight in the supplementary bouts as it reads as though it's well worth a watch. But Gonzalez and Carbajal are fighters that've wanted to watch for some time, so if I start with Chang vs Gonzalez it leads me nicely into the other 2.
Jung-Koo Chang vs Humberto Gonzalez

https://youtu.be/93KyOtkpW9Y

[davie]

Previous weeks bouts
Week 1 - Leonard/Hearns.- http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=207995
Week 2 - Olivarez/Castillo 1 - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208158
Week 3 - Emile Griffith vs Nino Benvenuti - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208339
Week 4 - Salvador Sanchez vs Danny Lopez - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208467
Week 5 - Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208651
Week 6 - Henry Armstrong - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=208877
Week 7 - Carlos Monzon - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=209080

Main thread - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... e#p4571725

[davie]

As requested Jung-Koo Chang vs Muangchai Kittikasem

https://youtu.be/qpsXpQd049Y

And the first of 3 fights between Michael Carbajal and Humberto Gonzalez

https://youtu.be/eC2ejEYwTz0

I opted for the first fight as it has a bit of drama with knockdowns and a comeback KO. I don't know if it's the best of the 3.
I wanted to weigh up who was the finest of the fly weights but I appreciate the footage I've provided will give a skewed perspective. I've put up 2 Chang losses, the first because it was the only one between him and Gonzalez and the other because it got a request. Any suggestions of Chang winning in style will be appreciated.

I also had difficulty picking the supplemetaries, I've shown the Carbajal KO win, when Gonzalez won the other 2 by decision and also ommited the 1995 FOTY between Humberto Gonzalez and Saman Sorjaturong, which I've no doubt someone will point out as an act of folly. But ai don't want to flood the thread with fights. You buggers can surely work Youtube for yourselves ;)

[Counter-puncher]

Kitti- Chang is an insanely good fight, i haven't see Chang- Gonzalez i look forward to having a look at it this week

[davie]

Kitti- Chang is an insanely good fight, i haven't see Chang- Gonzalez i look forward to having a look at it this week

What's your thoughts on the comparison between the 3 Carbajal, Chang and Gonzalez?
It's odd that we have arguably the 3 top men in the division all coming from roughly the same time period (although light fly is one of the newer divisions of course)

I'd heard of Carbajal and Gonzalez but I must admit Chang was virtually an unknown to me

[handsofstone]

I thought the 1st Gonzalez/Carbajal fight was the best, the rematch was great too, the 3rd fight was pretty crap IMO

Sorjatorong/Gonzalez was another classic

[davie]

I thought the 1st Gonzalez/Carbajal fight was the best, the rematch was great too, the 3rd fight was pretty crap IMO

Sorjatorong/Gonzalez was another classic

So basically I've missed all the classics

[davie]

Ok ok, if you fancy watching some decent fights and not the shite I posted earlier..... here's the 95 fight of the year between Humberto Gonzalez and Saman Sorjaturong

https://youtu.be/BI_UI9G8a5o

The 2 decision fights between Carbajal and Gonzalez that were better than the shite I posted

https://youtu.be/3vI5CMBkXeU

https://youtu.be/PE8k_ICX410

And just for good measure I better put in a fught that see's Jung-Koo Chang actually win one. I toyed with the Sot Chitlada or German Torres wins. But I (probably erroneously) settled on a 3rd round stoppage of Hilario Zapata to avenge a split decision defeat from the year before.


https://youtu.be/syMplnHQH5g

[Counter-puncher]

Kitti- Chang is an insanely good fight, i haven't see Chang- Gonzalez i look forward to having a look at it this week

What's your thoughts on the comparison between the 3 Carbajal, Chang and Gonzalez?
It's odd that we have arguably the 3 top men in the division all coming from roughly the same time period (although light fly is one of the newer divisions of course)

I'd heard of Carbajal and Gonzalez but I must admit Chang was virtually an unknown to me

in terms of the eye-test Chang is the one who impresses me most, like a SE Asian Duran, incredible ferocity and explosiveness, decent power, great bodypuncher, some decent names on his record too, though there is quite a big difference between peak and past-peak as apparently he was quite the high-liver and wasn't in good shape later in his career. you mention 3 top light-flies, there was another one Myung-Woo Yuh (sp?) at the same time from Korea, not as impressive to the eye but he made a lot of defences.

[davie]

I don't know what the criteria is for winning the world boxing history challege (probably shouldn't have called it a challenge really) but I think if you get through all these this week, your the winner*...















*not applicable to C-P or HoS who have already seen them all or Boxing prospect that was probably fornicating ringside for the lot of them

[Counter-puncher]

Chang - Uhashi (1 i think) is a very good fight

[davie]

Kitti- Chang is an insanely good fight, i haven't see Chang- Gonzalez i look forward to having a look at it this week

What's your thoughts on the comparison between the 3 Carbajal, Chang and Gonzalez?
It's odd that we have arguably the 3 top men in the division all coming from roughly the same time period (although light fly is one of the newer divisions of course)

I'd heard of Carbajal and Gonzalez but I must admit Chang was virtually an unknown to me

in terms of the eye-test Chang is the one who impresses me most, like a SE Asian Duran, incredible ferocity and explosiveness, decent power, great bodypuncher, some decent names on his record too, though there is quite a big difference between peak and past-peak as apparently he was quite the high-liver and wasn't in good shape later in his career. you mention 3 top light-flies, there was another one Myung-Woo Yuh (sp?) at the same time from Korea, not as impressive to the eye but he made a lot of defences.

Must say his record does not look as impressive at first glance and I always treat these kinds or records with an initial scepticism when they don't travel or attempt to unify despite numerous defences.

[davie]

Chang - Uhashi (1 i think) is a very good fight

Got 7 bouts up now, I think that'll do us for flyweights for now

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Kitti- Chang is an insanely good fight, i haven't see Chang- Gonzalez i look forward to having a look at it this week

What's your thoughts on the comparison between the 3 Carbajal, Chang and Gonzalez?
It's odd that we have arguably the 3 top men in the division all coming from roughly the same time period (although light fly is one of the newer divisions of course)

I'd heard of Carbajal and Gonzalez but I must admit Chang was virtually an unknown to me

I'd rate chang the best of the group, carbajal third.

[Boxing Prospect]

Slightly off topic but Chang and Yuh are going to have an exhibition bout, speculated to be in March 1st on some disputed Island near Japan and Korea.

http://www.asianboxing.info/asian-news/ ... ed-islands

Both in their 50's now though

[SaadOffTheDeck]

As for top 3 and eye tests. My boy Yoko was a beast. Beautiful all around fighter.

[davie]

As for top 3 and eye tests. My boy Yoko was a beast. Beautiful all around fighter.

He's actually the only LFW I think I've seen a few times and I was impressed with him. Can't quite remember the fights, watched them last year

[SaadOffTheDeck]

As for top 3 and eye tests. My boy Yoko was a beast. Beautiful all around fighter.

He's actually the only LFW I think I've seen a few times and I was impressed with him. Can't quite remember the fights, watched them last year

We lived in Boston for 2 years when I was 9/10, 79-80 and they had this boxing show on Saturday mornings that was fantastic. Gushiken, canto, espadas, betulio, etc..Only possible way to see those fighters.

[davie]

As for top 3 and eye tests. My boy Yoko was a beast. Beautiful all around fighter.

He's actually the only LFW I think I've seen a few times and I was impressed with him. Can't quite remember the fights, watched them last year

We lived in Boston for 2 years when I was 9/10, 79-80 and they had this boxing show on Saturday mornings that was fantastic. Gushiken, canto, espadas, betulio, etc..Only possible way to see those fighters.

Just checked back on my posts, I definitely watched the Gushiken v Vargas bout and I'm sure I watched a couple others (can't remember which). They're on Youtube, I'm sure.

[davie]

Just watched the Chang vs Zapata bout, good performance as long as it lasted. Chang looked untroubled, which begs the question, what went wrong in the first bout between the two?

I'm not sure if this was Changs usual style or a tactical change up but he didn't look like a typical smalll fighter. Not content to stand in range, he moved really well, close distance quick and nailed him with sharp powerful shots and only really let combinations go when he knew he hurt him.
He looked like if you put him in a 5'11" 168lb frame he'd have been a proper KO artist if you know what I mean

[elmersalsa]

These for me were the 5 best 108lbs fighters ever in no particular order:
Jung Koo Chang
Hilario Zapata
Michael Carbajal
Myung Woo Yuh
Yoko Gushiken

[Andrew]

Been meaning to watch the carbajal Gonzalez trilogy. I'll get round to it this week

[davie]

Jung-Koo Chang vs Humberto Gonzalez
I didn't score it because I'd seen the cards were quite wide and having watched it now, there was no controversy in them. I think I would have given 2 maybe 3 rounds to Chang, a couple close ones and at least 7 clear rounds to Gonzalez

There were a couple stories of where Chang went wrong. For the first 3 rounds he approached it with a similar strategy that worked so well in the Zapata fight, staying on the outside and trying quick little attacks getting into range with one or two big shots. But his accuracy was miles off, the best way I could describe it was he looked like he had ring rust (which he clearly didn't). he swung short, swung wide and the biggest sin, moved into range without throwing at all and Gonzalez repeatedly punished him.

The rest of the fight Chang tried to get up close and this looked to be where Gonzalez was most comfortable. The stronger and more compact looking fighter, he landed far more at close range, throwing flurries of half hook/half uppercut types of shots, he worked Chang well at close range, while Changs punching style just didn't look suited to infighting.

If ever a fighter needed a good, disciplined and educated jab, it was Chang against Gonzalez. But it doesn't seem to be a weapon in his arsenal, going on the 15 rounds of him I've watched so far

EDIT - I said he clearly didn't have ring rust, because he was only 26 years old and had fought 3 months earlier. But I just spotted on his record that that previous bout had seen him return from a retirement* due to financial difficulties. Perhaps not an excuse for not being at the races but maybe if his heart wasn't in it, it could explain the sub-standard performance

*albeit a fairly brief 14 month retirement

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I have at least a thousand DVD's, the majority are unlabeled and I just snagged one randomly and it's carbajal/Arce, nasty brawl I haven't watched in ages.

[davie]

Jung-Koo Chang vs Muangchai Kittikasem

Decent wee scrap with enough action and incidents.

Chang came up short again here. Even with the knock downs I think I would have still had Kittekasem ahead going into the last round. I don't think Kittikasem had been seriously hurt when dropped but Chang was in a bad way in that last round. He got up from the first KD and fell back over, the ref should never have let him fight on. He then got dropped by next to nothing and was all over the place, the ref proceeded to start another count before realising he was actually holding Chang up. Was Chang left with injuries from this as he seemed scrambled and I know this was his last fight.

It possibly isn't the best group of fights to judge Chang on but I've seen him comprehensively out-boxed/fought by Gonzalez then knocked sideways by Kittekasem.
He looks an exciting and dangerous fighter but there are glaring holes in his game, a lack of a jab and defensive mistakes and naive tactics galore.
I may need to rewind the clock and watch him more prior to his 1988 retirement but I don't know how this guy is no1 at 108lb?