David Haye versus Tony Bellew.

[lillywhite14]

The poll in BM was intriguing....loads of top boxers and big names going one way then the other...a fun read. Hughie Fury was particularly classy I thought

I get the feeling Haye isn't well liked in boxing circles or more accurately, there's a hint of jealousy when it comes to him maybe?

The BN poll when he fought Enzo was heavily weighted towards Enzo from memory. Reasons why Haye was being dismissed included 'not tough enough' ( used more than once )

A bloke can be a little in to himself and a bit of playboy with a flashy style and still he a tough pudendum.

Haye is a born fighter, no doubt about it. When Chisora and Bellew were mouthing off at him in press conferences, Haye didn't hesitate in whacking them both.

Yep. I remember reading the likes of Dominic Negus ( I think! ) and Mark Hobson saying Haye wasn't tough enough and that Enzo would drag him in to deep waters etc

Not many Brits have gone to the undisputed champs backyard and got up to win. That's proper tough.

[ChessBoxer]

Bellew for me been going back and forth between them . I think Bellew wants it more sometimes that's all it takes. Been watching Hayes last fights yes he is a "sniper" styled boxer when he smells blood he rushes in in comparison to Bellew especially if you watch Bellew against BJ Flores it was clinical didn't go over the top just went about his business and i suspect Haye will rush him the first few rounds if he cant get him out i reckon Haye will struggle after the first few rounds where Bellew will thrive on it. If you look at it who is the better fighter in the middle rounds for me its Bellew and its going to be won there . Bellew points win.

I'm sorry but this has to be, in my opinion, the most far fetched breakdown of a fight I've seen on this forum in a long time. It isn't even remotely a contest. Wanting it more means almost nothing, aye maybe when one guy goes on knowing he's there to lose, or a slight edge like this can make the difference in a truest evenly matched fight. This isn't that though!
Flores has been a part time boxer for years, really since his broadcasting career took off. Added to that he was never world class anyway. Bellew "breaking him down" isn't much of a marker when judging this fight.
As for Haye rushing in - this is pure nonsense. Haye likes to talk himself up as all action but in reality he is pretty conservative, using his speed and judgement of gaps in his opponents defence to pick his moments to attack. Christ he didn't even rush in against DeMori!!!!
This is not a fight that needs breaking down. Bellew has cashed out in a fight he deep down knows he most likely will not win. Haye wants money and low risk before a proper cash cow fight v AJ at Wembley late summer. Who can blame either of them. If you want to know how it'll go though go and watch Haye v Harrison and imagine Haye having even less to worry about and Bellew having less distance to keep him at range. It's a three round fight at an absolute push

Can't wait for fight night to come soon . I fancy a double Bellew and Klit , In the words of Peter Fury "You don't know boxing like you think you know it"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmaYWjmHlXw

[lillywhite14]

I like Peter but he's not suddenly the all knowing master of the sport. Nobody can predict everything correctly.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Haye will smash Bellew to pieces in a maximum of 3.

He's better, and naturally far more powerful. Bellew has no business at heavyweight.

[KiwiRider]

I was so surprised that Tony took on this fight in the first place. Cash cow?
For a guy who can weigh in at Cruiser and still look out of shape, heavy weight seems to be out of his league.
All power to him though, like Kell Brook stepping up, it takes far more courage than I could muster and that alone garners respect from me no matter the outcome.

[Grilling Machine]

A lot of balls, but not too many marbles.

[Ezzard]

I agree that Tony might find HW too much. But he's a smart man in the ring. He might say he's going toe-to-toe etc but that's just marketing the fight.

Haye has all the advantages but he's not as mobile now. He's put on weight to protect the shoulder and he just can't get around the ring like he used to. Still a dynamite puncher...and is the favourite. But their fight will pose questions.

[crusader]

I get the feeling Haye isn't well liked in boxing circles or more accurately, there's a hint of jealousy when it comes to him maybe?

The BN poll when he fought Enzo was heavily weighted towards Enzo from memory. Reasons why Haye was being dismissed included 'not tough enough' ( used more than once )

A bloke can be a little in to himself and a bit of playboy with a flashy style and still he a tough pudendum.

Haye is a born fighter, no doubt about it. When Chisora and Bellew were mouthing off at him in press conferences, Haye didn't hesitate in whacking them both.

Yep. I remember reading the likes of Dominic Negus ( I think! ) and Mark Hobson saying Haye wasn't tough enough and that Enzo would drag him in to deep waters etc

Not many Brits have gone to the undisputed champs backyard and got up to win. That's proper tough.

Haye didn't do it either, though he certainly showed grit in beating Mormeck.

[Lenny]

Haye is a born fighter, no doubt about it. When Chisora and Bellew were mouthing off at him in press conferences, Haye didn't hesitate in whacking them both.

Yep. I remember reading the likes of Dominic Negus ( I think! ) and Mark Hobson saying Haye wasn't tough enough and that Enzo would drag him in to deep waters etc

Not many Brits have gone to the undisputed champs backyard and got up to win. That's proper tough.

Haye didn't do it either, though he certainly showed grit in beating Mormeck.

How so? Two titles, I'd say that's pretty undisputed in this day and age. The IBF was being passed around and taken away from Bell before his rematch with Mormeck. Got up - tick. Was it because technically the arena wasn't Mormeck's actual backyard?

[crusader]

To me undisputed means, and in the multi-belt era has traditionally meant, that someone holds all the major world titles in their division. When it's just a matter of holding all those belts, you can't brush aside the fact that someone, for whatever reason, was missing a major title or two. Further, if Haye is treated as being IBF champion because Bell was stripped without losing his title in the ring, Haye should've never been considered WBA HW champ; Chagaev was also stripped without a defeat, and shortly after that he lost his unbeaten record against Wlad, not Haye or Valuev.

Incidentally, IBF champ Cunningham had wins over Huck, Jones, and Wlod at the time Haye moved up, and would've been no worse than his second best opponent.

[Boxerbeetle]

To me undisputed means, and in the multi-belt era has traditionally meant, that someone holds all the major world titles in their division. When it's just a matter of holding all those belts, you can't brush aside the fact that someone, for whatever reason, was missing a major title or two. Further, if Haye is treated as being IBF champion because Bell was stripped without losing his title in the ring, Haye should've never been treated as WBA HW champ, as Chagaev was also stripped without losing.

Incidentally, IBF champ Cunningham had wins over Huck, Jones, and Wlod at the time Haye moved up, and would've been no worse than his second best opponent.

To me, undisputed can also refer to a fighter who might not hold all the major belts, but is nearly universally regarded as the best in the division. For example, as far as I'm concerned, Golovkin is the undisputed MW champion.

[crusader]

To me 'undisputed champion' is a term that refers specifically to someone who holds all the major world titles at the weight (see the link below). This use seems fairly conventional, though maybe it's more of a North American thing. If someone uses the term and just means 'clearly the top guy at the weight', then Haye obviously has a much stronger case for having gotten up away from home to beat the undisputed CW champ.

But as for concurrently being WBO/WBA/WBC/IBF champ, it never happened for Haye. Bell failed to defend against his mandatory Steve Cunningham, and he was stripped just as Chagaev later was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undisputed_champion

[Boxerbeetle]

The section in the wiki article about 'Disputed undisputed champions' pretty much summarises why the idea of an undisputed champion is such a ridiculous notion these days.

I think being 'clearly the top guy at the weight' also covers it, as personally I couldn't give a toss about who holds which trinket. GGG could be stripped of all his belts and still be undisputed champion imo.

[Nightmare Roy]

A lot of balls, but not too many marbles.

Can't argue with that, he's certainly got balls!

[dirk2686]

The section in the wiki article about 'Disputed undisputed champions' pretty much summarises why the idea of an undisputed champion is such a ridiculous notion these days.

I think being 'clearly the top guy at the weight' also covers it, as personally I couldn't give a toss about who holds which trinket. GGG could be stripped of all his belts and still be undisputed champion imo.

This is exactly how I'd view it. If GGG and Canelo ever met at 160 and it was advertised as being for the 'undisputed middleweight championship of the world' I doubt anyone for a second would be thinking of Saunders.

Same with when Calzaghe fought Kessler. Calzaghe wasn't IBF champion at the time but they were so obviously one and two in the division.

It's also not the case that the four champions even make up the top four at the weight. Look at heavyweight for example. Ultimately quibbling over a single belt looks like nitpicking. Haye was undisputed at 200.

[crusader]

Of course it has its demerits, but it's still a well established term. Same goes for the lineal championship, whose value I think is often massively overrated.

Ive had this Haye debate several times, and it seems that even going by the belt standard a number of people think he was undisputed champ, citing Bell losing the IBF outside the ring as the explanation of how he did this without holding that title. Same thing happened to Chagaev with the WBA though, and he ended up losing to Wlad, not Haye or Valuev.

Ultimately quibbling over a single belt looks like nitpicking. Haye was undisputed at 200

Not at all when a very common standard of being 'undisputed' is based on having a set of titles that includes the IBF. Id say Haye was the top fighter at CW, though he doesn't have much depth to his record there, and I think something like Usyk's away from home schooling of Glowacki is arguably as good as any Haye win at the weight.

[ChessBoxer]

Bellew for me been going back and forth between them . I think Bellew wants it more sometimes that's all it takes. Been watching Hayes last fights yes he is a "sniper" styled boxer when he smells blood he rushes in in comparison to Bellew especially if you watch Bellew against BJ Flores it was clinical didn't go over the top just went about his business and i suspect Haye will rush him the first few rounds if he cant get him out i reckon Haye will struggle after the first few rounds where Bellew will thrive on it. If you look at it who is the better fighter in the middle rounds for me its Bellew and its going to be won there . Bellew points win.

I'm sorry but this has to be, in my opinion, the most far fetched breakdown of a fight I've seen on this forum in a long time. It isn't even remotely a contest. Wanting it more means almost nothing, aye maybe when one guy goes on knowing he's there to lose, or a slight edge like this can make the difference in a truest evenly matched fight. This isn't that though!
Flores has been a part time boxer for years, really since his broadcasting career took off. Added to that he was never world class anyway. Bellew "breaking him down" isn't much of a marker when judging this fight.
As for Haye rushing in - this is pure nonsense. Haye likes to talk himself up as all action but in reality he is pretty conservative, using his speed and judgement of gaps in his opponents defence to pick his moments to attack. Christ he didn't even rush in against DeMori!!!!
This is not a fight that needs breaking down. Bellew has cashed out in a fight he deep down knows he most likely will not win. Haye wants money and low risk before a proper cash cow fight v AJ at Wembley late summer. Who can blame either of them. If you want to know how it'll go though go and watch Haye v Harrison and imagine Haye having even less to worry about and Bellew having less distance to keep him at range. It's a three round fight at an absolute push