Is Bernard Dunne one of the worst fighters to win a world title?

[mickey1975]

He was a very good fighter. An outstanding amateur, too, at a young age.

[tobyh5]

Sometimes you have to assume that there is an ulterior motive with some threads as this seems personal rather than genuine. Shit-ton of fighters to win world titles who were atrocious but this guy (with an Irish username) has picked on Dunne.

To be honest, I feel this speaks more about the poster than anything else and not much of it pointing towards any strength in character

[Horse]

The only real problem with Dunne's career was not fighting Rendall Munroe.

[TheLeprechaun]

Sometimes you have to assume that there is an ulterior motive with some threads as this seems personal rather than genuine. Shit-ton of fighters to win world titles who were atrocious but this guy (with an Irish username) has picked on Dunne.

To be honest, I feel this speaks more about the poster than anything else and not much of it pointing towards any strength in character

You can say that about anyone who criticises anyone. If someone came on and called Martin one of the worst champions you'd get Americans coming on writing identical posts to yours. So it's not surprise that some Irish will come on writing posts like that. And if anything it looks like you are the one with personal connections to dunne by the look and tone of the post.

There have been plenty of unbiased posts in the thread and some good ones at that.

[mullenman]

Boxing forum is for talking about boxing fool's

If somebody thinks Dunne was overrated that's sound as it's there opinion

I know him and supported him all his career and I know he was over rated but fair play to him for having the career he did

He is a sound bloke and but he is now paid to give his opinion about boxers and is very good at it

[PredatorHayds]

Fair enough to be honest, and Caballero was a proper monster at the weight at the time

Caballero was a treat to watch in his prime.

One of my faves

[magwitch]

Fair enough to be honest, and Caballero was a proper monster at the weight at the time

Caballero was a treat to watch in his prime.

One of my faves

Is this the Caballero that demolished Steve Molitor? The Panamanian? Around the same weight division.....
Caballero means “gentleman”......but he weren’t very gentle that night

[Londonirish]

He was a very good fighter. An outstanding amateur, too, at a young age.

X2


We was matched as Jr's a couple of Times, In the end we said we'd play for travel and fight in Dublin put are selfs up in Hotel etc but it never happened..

[thepocketrocket]

The guy beats a champ who beat Caballero, and went on to take Rigo to a SD, and he is described as one of the worst fighters to win a world title. Where can you go with that?

[blanca]

bit harsh on bernard esp when shite like jb williamson have been world champs

[tobyh5]

Sometimes you have to assume that there is an ulterior motive with some threads as this seems personal rather than genuine. Shit-ton of fighters to win world titles who were atrocious but this guy (with an Irish username) has picked on Dunne.

To be honest, I feel this speaks more about the poster than anything else and not much of it pointing towards any strength in character

You can say that about anyone who criticises anyone. If someone came on and called Martin one of the worst champions you'd get Americans coming on writing identical posts to yours. So it's not surprise that some Irish will come on writing posts like that. And if anything it looks like you are the one with personal connections to dunne by the look and tone of the post.

There have been plenty of unbiased posts in the thread and some good ones at that.

I can hardly even remember watching the guy, would not know him if he walked past me right now, am not Irish and really do not care. Just seems an odd thread

[crusader]

Cordoba was good, but hardly a monster. He was on a similar level to Sidorenko and Poonsawat.

He had also beat Caballero, who was #1 in the division.

Lets be honest not many, outside of Ireland, gave him a chance against Cordoba, so lets not be revisionists and do down the victory with the benefit of hindsight.

Caballero wasn't #1 at the time of the Cordoba bout. He was 19-1 without a notable victory, and he'd been KOd in three by Jose Rojas just a year earlier. Moreover, between the Caballero win and the Dunne loss, Cordoba drew twice with Sidorenko and lost to Poonsawat, which isn't exactly beastly stuff.

The revisionist nonsense is trying to act like Cordoba was some type of monster; he was definitely good, but nothing special.

[TheLeprechaun]

Cordoba was good, but hardly a monster. He was on a similar level to Sidorenko and Poonsawat.

He had also beat Caballero, who was #1 in the division.

Lets be honest not many, outside of Ireland, gave him a chance against Cordoba, so lets not be revisionists and do down the victory with the benefit of hindsight.

Caballero wasn't #1 at the time of the Cordoba bout. He was 19-1 without a notable victory, and he'd been KOd in three by Jose Rojas just a year earlier. Moreover, between the Caballero win and the Dunne loss, Cordoba drew twice with Sidorenko and lost to Poonsawat, which isn't exactly beastly stuff.

The revisionist nonsense is trying to act like Cordoba was some type of monster; he was definitely good, but nothing special.

Rigondeaux was being Rigondeaux against him too. Just cruising along with the fight in hand instead of upping the pace and getting him out of there.

[Horse]

Caballero wasn't #1 at the time of the Cordoba bout. He was 19-1 without a notable victory, and he'd been KOd in three by Jose Rojas just a year earlier. Moreover, between the Caballero win and the Dunne loss, Cordoba drew twice with Sidorenko and lost to Poonsawat, which isn't exactly beastly stuff.

The revisionist nonsense is trying to act like Cordoba was some type of monster; he was definitely good, but nothing special.

Who said Cordoba was a monster?

[Horse]

Rigondeaux was being Rigondeaux against him too. Just cruising along with the fight in hand instead of upping the pace and getting him out of there.

Rigondeaux wasn't too far off losing.

[crusader]

Caballero wasn't #1 at the time of the Cordoba bout. He was 19-1 without a notable victory, and he'd been KOd in three by Jose Rojas just a year earlier. Moreover, between the Caballero win and the Dunne loss, Cordoba drew twice with Sidorenko and lost to Poonsawat, which isn't exactly beastly stuff.

The revisionist nonsense is trying to act like Cordoba was some type of monster; he was definitely good, but nothing special.

Who said Cordoba was a monster?

Reading back on the thread, nobody! I mustve read the Caballero was a monster post too quickly.

[slapbangwhallop]

Cordoba was good, but hardly a monster. He was on a similar level to Sidorenko and Poonsawat.

He had also beat Caballero, who was #1 in the division.

Lets be honest not many, outside of Ireland, gave him a chance against Cordoba, so lets not be revisionists and do down the victory with the benefit of hindsight.

Caballero wasn't #1 at the time of the Cordoba bout. He was 19-1 without a notable victory, and he'd been KOd in three by Jose Rojas just a year earlier. Moreover, between the Caballero win and the Dunne loss, Cordoba drew twice with Sidorenko and lost to Poonsawat, which isn't exactly beastly stuff.

The revisionist nonsense is trying to act like Cordoba was some type of monster; he was definitely good, but nothing special.

If Caballero wasn't #1 in the division at the time then who was? I'd like to hear that.

Monster? No. Heavy favourite? Yes. Cordoba was 1/4 to beat Dunne.

[crusader]

Certainly not Caballero. Please tell me what his best wins were at the time, and what happened when he fought Jose Rojas a few bouts earlier. Caballero wasnt even in The Ring's top 10 at the end of 2003 or 2004, and he only came to prominence when he beat Ponce.

I never denied that it was a significant upset and a good win for Dunne.

[TheLeprechaun]

I think JuanMa was number 1 at the time

[stujones]

Retired a bit too young for me, but its a hard hard game so if the heart was no longer there then it was definately the correct decision.

I think had he stuck around for another 2-3 years - then we could have seen a massive fight with an up and coming Frampton.

[slapbangwhallop]

Just looked at The Ring magazine ratings for 2009. #1 Celestino Caballero

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_R ... ings:_2009

[crusader]

I was referring to the time of his bout with Cordoba. He got much better after that, and 2009 was a world away.

[slapbangwhallop]

Certainly not Caballero. Please tell me what his best wins were at the time, and what happened when he fought Jose Rojas a few bouts earlier. Caballero wasnt even in The Ring's top 10 at the end of 2003 or 2004, and he only came to prominence when he beat Ponce.

I never denied that it was a significant upset and a good win for Dunne.

"The Ring's top 10 at the end of 2003 or 2004, and he only came to prominence when he beat Ponce."

You know we are talking about 2009, right?

[TheLeprechaun]

Caballero shouldn't have been number one. Juanma was number one at that time clearly, due to the manner of his victories and holding the WBO. Caballero had the two other belts but his wins weren't as convincing.

I don't think Dunne would have seen out the first round vs 2009 Juanma

[crusader]

When was that established?

You wrote 'He had also beat Caballero, who was #1 in the division", but that doesnt make it clear whether you mean #1 at the time of the Cordoba-Cab bout (you allude to that fight by mentioning Cordoba's win), the Dunne-Cordoba bout, or just any time in the past.

Either way, Caballero improved significantly after the Cordoba loss (and of course after the Rojas KO a few bouts prior to that). Cordoba was on roughly the same level as Sidorenko and Poonsawat, and it was a good upset win for Dunne, both in terms of the quality of opponent and the quality of the fight.