golden oldie wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. Mine is Holyfield was no more " past it " than Bowe was when they fought for the 3rd time.
Bowe was 28, Holyfield was 33.That is a crucial difference; enough to make a difference.
Holyfield had been in more tough fights than Bowe and had taken more punishment.
Bowe had shown no signs of declining before the fight. Holyfield had.
Anyone watching the fight could tell that Holyfield was not as good as he once was. He was fighting in occasional spurts. In some rounds, he hardly threw a punch. Bowe looked about the same.
That is just pure unadulterated nonsense. Now you are trying to make out Holy was an " old " 33, pure crap. All that happened was Bowe got himself into decent shape instead of being a flabby 246 and then used his natural advantages to TKO Vander in 8. Another case of a good big one beating a good medium sized one. Or great if you prefer to use that word. And no one with a brain would dismiss Bowe's love of food, and lack of conditioning in comparing who was " past it " between him and Holy.
I don't give a shite who had the harder fights. Bowe's lifestyle was abysmal compared to Vanders. If anyone ever got " old " before their time it was Bowe.
So Marvin Hagler was faded when he fought Leonard, but Holfyield was in his prime when fought Bowe the third time. Wow. No bias there.
Another case of big heavyweight beating a great medium sized one? Outside of Bowe-Holyfield, you haven't come up with any in the history of the sport.
At the time of the 3rd Holyfield-Bowe fight, nobody was saying Bowe past it. The lack of conditioning was not yet a major factor for Bowe. A lot of people were saying Holyfield was slipping.
You should give a shite about who had the harder fights. A lot of punishment shortens your career. You ignore the obvious if it gets in the way of your assumptions.
Kalan wrote:Holyfield really had it going for Tyson... Too bad Ev couldn't keep that strength and body going... Too many bitches and kids slowed him down maybe
He referred to the 6' 2" with a 78" reach weighing anything from 218 - 226 Holy as tiny. As he said pointless arguments, especially where he is concerned.
I was being sarcastic you dimwit...in reaction to Kalans previous comment. Holyfield was a perfectly proportioned heavy. And yes the equally skilled Riddick Bowe beat him because he was bigger. ...yet the equally skilled, smaller Holyfield beat him in a rematch.
Yes I said he was past it; as in past his prime. His heavyweight prime was from 1988-1993. Anyone watching his fights from that time and comparing them to his fights after that should be able to can see it plain as day. Doesn't matter how "fruitful" you think his career was after the third Bowe fight. A lot of people thought he would and should retire after the Bowe fight because he looked so awful.
Getting back to the small great heavyweights vs Medium sized ones, there were a lot involving McVey, Jeannette, Lanford, and Wills. Unfortunately, it's hard to find weights for many of them.
Here is what I have come up with:
McVey (200) beat Jeannette (183) in one of their many bouts. This one took place on 2/20/1909.
McVey at over 200 beat Colin Bell who was under 200 on two occasions.
Wills (210) beat Langford (190) on one of their many fights. This one was on 1/3/1916.
On the other hand:
Langford (168) beat McVey (205) 10/09/1912.
Langford (190) beat Wills (210) on 11/26/1914.
Joe Jeannette (198) beat Sandy Ferguson (215)
Langford (191) beat Jim Johnson (224) on 12/12/1916.
Ambling Alp II wrote:Yes I said he was past it; as in past his prime. His heavyweight prime was from 1988-1993. Anyone watching his fights from that time and comparing them to his fights after that should be able to can see it plain as day. Doesn't matter how "fruitful" you think his career was after the third Bowe fight. A lot of people thought he would and should retire after the Bowe fight because he looked so awful.
NOPE!!! ... Nobody thought Holyfield should retire just because he lost 3 fights to Moorer and Bowe. Ev had both those louts on the canvas. He had Bowe down with big left hooks and nearly finished the lame swinger right there if you remember. It was the way he fought with a much bigger, taller and stronger man that was called into question... Instead of boxing smartly like he did in the 2nd fight -- which he won the rematch -- he traded punches like an idiot in the other fights.. He should have stuck with the jab versus Bowe like he did Foreman and Lewis because Evander was a pretty good boxer.. He didn't respect Bowe or his size and you have to respect all your opponents. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Holy was over-trained and undersized for the 1st Bowe fight (only 205).. I was pissed off cuz that's no Heavyweight. What was he thinking??? I never saw EH look so weak, but why didn't he box more in that one? He traded punches with Tyson too -- but the kid was more Ev's size and a real short stuff who couldn't hurt a bigger and stronger version of Holyfield.. He was trained right for Tyson anyway; he hit the weight room and ate a lot of steaks.. Ev was strong enough in those 2 fights to beat Mikey up and showed him the door. If the referee didn't jump in so fast in the 1st Tyson fight he would have scorched the kid.
