Shane Moseley vs. Vernon Forest

[magwitch]

Reading about this fight in a recent Boxing News issue made me dig it out (youtube).
Forest is the 7-1 outsider for this fight - despite having a record of something like 33-0 (26 early)!! - not to mention a pretty clear 10 or 11 point decision win in the ’92 Olympic trials over the same opponent.

It’s a cracking fight. So far I only watched the first 3 rounds but as I understand it, the next 9 follow a similar theme.

Forest had been stripped of his IBF title for not facing an Italian - Michele Piccirillo, but going for Moseley instead, for 850k more! How on Earth could the IBF pull a stunt like that? Strip a guy for going after an UNbeaten champion! Idiots!

RIP Vernon Forest

[magwitch]

I clearly remember Forrest when asked how he would handle Mosley's speed replying calmly " easy I'll take it away with the jab " and he did.

Buffer said in the intros that Moseley was regarded by most knowledgable fans as the current lb4lb no.1...
Surely that means that for a brief moment, Vernon was actually the number 1 on the planet, no?
He was dismissed far too easily it sounds like....for a man with such speed, snap, not to mention advantages in height AND reach. I suspect he would have beaten Moseley 9 times out of 10! His Bogeyman!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He made top 5, never #1. The rematch was much more competitive.

[davie]

Most knowledgeable fans would have had RJJ p4p no1 between Whitaker in 96 and his own defeats seeing him overtaken by Floyd in 04 surely

Mosely, ODLH and Hopkins were never the best fighter on the planet, neither was Forrest

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Most knowledgeable fans would have had RJJ p4p no1 between Whitaker in 96 and his own defeats seeing him overtaken by Floyd in 04 surely

Mosely, ODLH and Hopkins were never the best fighter on the planet, neither was Forrest

Nah, Shane, Oscar, Tito & Hopkins all had runs. Roy having the mythical spot for a decade is a myth.

[davie]

Most knowledgeable fans would have had RJJ p4p no1 between Whitaker in 96 and his own defeats seeing him overtaken by Floyd in 04 surely

Mosely, ODLH and Hopkins were never the best fighter on the planet, neither was Forrest

Nah, Shane, Oscar, Tito & Hopkins all had runs. Roy having the mythical spot for a decade is a myth.

Roy was p4p the best fighter on the planet for 8 years.

Not one of those guys was better at any point in that stretch

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Most knowledgeable fans would have had RJJ p4p no1 between Whitaker in 96 and his own defeats seeing him overtaken by Floyd in 04 surely

Mosely, ODLH and Hopkins were never the best fighter on the planet, neither was Forrest

Nah, Shane, Oscar, Tito & Hopkins all had runs. Roy having the mythical spot for a decade is a myth.

Roy was p4p the best fighter on the planet for 8 years.

Not one of those guys was better at any point in that stretch

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that was not the consensus at the time.

[gilgamesh]

He made top 5, never #1. The rematch was much more competitive.

Hell of a lot more boring too.

[gilgamesh]

Most knowledgeable fans would have had RJJ p4p no1 between Whitaker in 96 and his own defeats seeing him overtaken by Floyd in 04 surely

Mosely, ODLH and Hopkins were never the best fighter on the planet, neither was Forrest

Nah, Shane, Oscar, Tito & Hopkins all had runs. Roy having the mythical spot for a decade is a myth.

Roy was p4p the best fighter on the planet for 8 years.

Not one of those guys was better at any point in that stretch

He wasn't beating the quality of opposition of the guys that overtook him when they overtook him.

[davie]

This is where p4p falls down for me.
It's supposed to be about who is the best.

I don't think many would argue that Oscar was better in 97 and 98, Mosely was better in 00 and 01 and Hopkins was better in 02 (or 04 for that matter).

Too much focus on resume. We know Jones was the best at that time, he didn't intermittently become shit throughout a 9 year period. Yes some of them may have fought better fights and it's hard to keep them off the top spot when they're fighting the best. But I couldn't ever make an argument for ODLH being better than prime Roy at any stage, good wins or otherwise.

It's like making the assumption that the winner of Ward v Kovalev must become no1 because they faced the best opposition of any of the top fighters out there.

It's also the reason that, even though we can see, using the "eye test" that Lomachenko is ridiculously talented, many won't put him in a top 5 because he hasn't "proven" it

[SaadOffTheDeck]

P4p is stupid, I was simply refuting your statement that most knowledgeable fans considered Jones the best for 10 years. They didn't and neither did I. I had Whitaker the best for a long time and Tito after joppy, hops. Roy was right there the whole time, just not the default answer people make him out to be now.

[davie]

Most knowledgeable fans would have had RJJ p4p no1 between Whitaker in 96 and his own defeats seeing him overtaken by Floyd in 04 surely

Mosely, ODLH and Hopkins were never the best fighter on the planet, neither was Forrest

And the relevance of this post is what, exactly, in relation to Mosley v Forrest?

So you respond to a post that states
"Buffer said in the intros that Moseley was regarded by most knowledgable fans as the current lb4lb no.1..."
Then question the relevance of me saying something, clearly relevant to that statement?
Are you unhinged?

[davie]

I clearly remember Forrest when asked how he would handle Mosley's speed replying calmly " easy I'll take it away with the jab " and he did.

Buffer said in the intros that Moseley was regarded by most knowledgable fans as the current lb4lb no.1...
Surely that means that for a brief moment, Vernon was actually the number 1 on the planet, no?
He was dismissed far too easily it sounds like....for a man with such speed, snap, not to mention advantages in height AND reach. I suspect he would have beaten Moseley 9 times out of 10! His Bogeyman!

I agree with you man.

Kalan hasn't got a look in at this level of trolling


But I'm sure you don't care what I think, eh?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Buffer said in the intros that Moseley was regarded by most knowledgable fans as the current lb4lb no.1...
Surely that means that for a brief moment, Vernon was actually the number 1 on the planet, no?
He was dismissed far too easily it sounds like....for a man with such speed, snap, not to mention advantages in height AND reach. I suspect he would have beaten Moseley 9 times out of 10! His Bogeyman!

I agree with you man.

Kalan hasn't got a look in at this level of trolling


But I'm sure you don't care what I think, eh?

I'm not betting on a polite response. kalan is a kid, sadly, I think this Oldie character is an adult. A lonely, lonely, bitter, twisted, scab of a creature. But a fully grown one.

[Bard of Boxrec]

definitely remember Shane being widely considered p4p number 1 around 2001-2002.

forrest beat him, but then lost to Mayorga in one of those interesting styles make fights A beats B, B beats C, C beats A trio situations (kinda like Taylor/Hopkins/Pavlik)

[Kalan]

I clearly remember Forrest when asked how he would handle Mosley's speed replying calmly " easy I'll take it away with the jab " and he did.

That's a fact... The jab beats speed. Benitez had more technical problems than Mosley, but he was fast.. I predicted Leonard would destroy him with the jab and knock him out.. Leonard was a little easier to hit and not as tall as Forrest.. Plus he put a little too much juice on his jab and aimed it too much, or he would have stopped Benitez earlier.

Forrest was at his absolute peak for the 1st Mosley fight... Vernon suffers severe shoulder and elbow injuries after that -- and eventually needed multiple surgeries in an attempt to correct problems that wouldn't go away... But for that 1 night Forrest was so relaxed, powerful, and smooth he was everything he needed to be to get a wide decision from the extremely popular 38-0 Shane Mosley---who was the #1 P4P in the world... After the 9th round his corner continued to tell Forrest, "We don't know what these damned stinkin' judges are doing" ... Forrest attacked Mosley in the 10th and damned near put him out.

Everyone but George Foreman knew Forrest was a certain winner... He suggested "How about a draw?" ... Lampley threw water on that immediately.