Updating the BOXREC Forum Heavyweight Rankings CLOSED

[jezzamundo]

BWH Rankings as of 4 March 2017:

Champion: VACANT
1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Alexander Povetkin
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Deontay Wilder
5. Luis Ortiz
6. Kubrat Pulev
7. Joseph Parker
8. Carlos Takam
9. Andy Ruiz
10. Dillian Whyte
11. Dereck Chisora
12. Bermane Stiverne
13. Christian Hammer
14. David Haye
15. VACANT

Topic A - How are the rankings affected by Tony Bellew's TKO11 win over David Haye?

My vote: Bellew to #14, Haye OUT.

Note: This topic is for voting on the rankings of Bellew and Haye. Posting your own top 15 will not count as a vote. Please cast your vote in the manner that I have done above.

[asdfjkl]

David Haye out
Bellew out



And Stiverne out, and Hammer out.

Jun Long Zhang in, Miller in, Granat in, Agit Kabayel in

[Lennox]

Haye Out.
Bellew Out. He is a cruiserweight so keep him there. It was a freak win caused by an injury to Haye, but Haye got exposed as no longer a top heavyweight and has not improved at 36 and is still very injury prone. If Bellew relinqueshes the WBC 200 pound title then take another vote then.

[crusader]

Haye out
Bellew still out

Beating a one-legged Haye doesnt earn him a ranking for me. I think many guys wouldve done the same.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Bellew to 9 haye out

[Heretic]

My vote For topic A

Haye out
Bellew out

Hayes claim for top 15 rank was kind of weak. I was one of the people voting him in but that was mostly for the old achievements and lack of competition.

I also can't give Bellew full credit for this win because of the injury Haye had.

[Ilya Muromets]

Up through #9 it looks OK...Why did Whyte and Chisora get moved up so much? Haye doesn't belong on that list.

[keirw]

Haye out, not sure he will fight again anyway after another injury.

Bellew out, good win on paper but in reality he was very fortunate.

[BitPlayer]

Haye OUT.

Bellew isn't a heavyweight, he shouldn't be ranked.

[BitPlayer]

Up through #9 it looks OK...Why did Whyte and Chisora get moved up so much? Haye doesn't belong on that list.

Honestly what active heavyweights should be ranked higher? Though I think they may have gotten overrated a little because it was such a great fight.

[Ilya Muromets]

Up through #9 it looks OK...Why did Whyte and Chisora get moved up so much? Haye doesn't belong on that list.

Honestly what active heavyweights should be ranked higher? Though I think they may have gotten overrated a little because it was such a great fight.

How about Rudenko and Hughie Fury? Where's Lucas Browne!?

[BitPlayer]

Up through #9 it looks OK...Why did Whyte and Chisora get moved up so much? Haye doesn't belong on that list.

Honestly what active heavyweights should be ranked higher? Though I think they may have gotten overrated a little because it was such a great fight.

How about Rudenko and Hughie Fury?

WHo has Rundenko beat? I'd Hughie Fury around their level, higher ceiling but less proven.

[Ilya Muromets]

Honestly what active heavyweights should be ranked higher? Though I think they may have gotten overrated a little because it was such a great fight.

How about Rudenko and Hughie Fury?

WHo has Rundenko beat? I'd Hughie Fury around their level, higher ceiling but less proven.

OK ...but where is Lucas Browne?

[Heretic]

Browne got kicked out of the list because of PEDs...

Povetkin, Ortiz and Stiverne are still on the list so not much consistency there

[HyacinthusTurnipseed]

Haye OUT, Bellew remains unranked.

I do think Haye was on his way to a comfortable victory before the injury, though he was looking poor. Bellew is more durable than most of us anticipated and did eventually get a second wind after punching himself out trying to get an obviously injured Haye out of there (how many times have more visibly athletic fighters punched themselves out trying for a stoppage victory that wasn't there (yet)?). Still I'd have to see him beat a decent heavy without any caveats before I was willing to put him in the top 15.

[Ilya Muromets]

Browne got kicked out of the list because of PEDs...

Povetkin, Ortiz and Stiverne are still on the list so not much consistency there

I'm so sick of this phony "not much consistency" Las Vegas drug testing racket.

This guy knows the score:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L0mHexLxyc

[dagilechia]

Haye OUT Bellew OUT

[Belanio]

My vote: Bellew stays out, Haye OUT.

[Rob3_142]

My vote: Bellew to #12, Haye OUT.

[punchoutsb]

Haye out, Bellew stays out.

[Freedom2013]

Haye OUT
Bellew stays OUT

[tiny_acres]

Haye out
Bellevue #12

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Topic A - Bellew to #2, Haye OUT

If official boxrec ratings have any credibility, Bellew would be ranked at heavy where he will likely finish out his career this year after another big money fight. By points he's over boxrec #1 Joshua, but that would be English heresy, so keep him boxed in cruiser is the thinking on both this board and boxrec administrators I would be forced to conclude.

As to the fight, skouser Bellew made skynt Haye look like the prototypical boxrec keyboard warrior on the cobbles after a hard evening at the pub caught out by the clever young lad he insulted earlier. Club fighters showed more nuance than Hayfaker who missed most every haymaker he winged. The fight was set in the first round, first exchange in a WTF moment when he was blasted against the ropes for what could have been called the first KD but for the disbelief of the ref. Bellew partially slipped most of the few shots that landed, only taking one clean punch that he quickly recovered from and controlled the fight completely. The alleged Haye injuries alluded to before the fight played no role in what, 10K-30K wagered and lost by betting on Haye. Grumps of course still can't give Bellew credit for fighting the perfect fight. Skousers ain't supposed to be so mentally gifted is the thinking there.

As to the questions raised by the existing limitations of the poll compiled by use of the median where the two outliers at each end are discarded as I recall: Such yields one whole number that is not necessarily representative of the poll votes in such a limited survey. If the points were totaled as they were rated with one =1 and 2 = two and divided by the total number of votes we would get an average that would reflect in most cases the #1 rated heavy would have an average much greater than one and so on. They would be expressed in fractions which allows better sorting of fighters to almost always eliminate ties.

Oh, and no vote after the Breazeale/Ugonoh fight, and why was that? Breazeale as dire a boxer as he is, has two KOs over better comp than Wilder has fought and the one toughman loss to Joshua. I'd rank him higher than Wilder but for not coming up for a vote, a grave oversight IMV.

[jezzamundo]

- Topic A - Bellew to #2, Haye OUT

If official boxrec ratings have any credibility, Bellew would be ranked at heavy where he will likely finish out his career this year after another big money fight. By points he's over boxrec #1 Joshua, but that would be English heresy, so keep him boxed in cruiser is the thinking on both this board and boxrec administrators I would be forced to conclude.

As to the fight, skouser Bellew made skynt Haye look like the prototypical boxrec keyboard warrior on the cobbles after a hard evening at the pub caught out by the clever young lad he insulted earlier. Club fighters showed more nuance than Hayfaker who missed most every haymaker he winged. The fight was set in the first round, first exchange in a WTF moment when he was blasted against the ropes for what could have been called the first KD but for the disbelief of the ref. Bellew partially slipped most of the few shots that landed, only taking one clean punch that he quickly recovered from and controlled the fight completely. The alleged Haye injuries alluded to before the fight played no role in what, 10K-30K wagered and lost by betting on Haye. Grumps of course still can't give Bellew credit for fighting the perfect fight. Skousers ain't supposed to be so mentally gifted is the thinking there.

As to the questions raised by the existing limitations of the poll compiled by use of the median where the two outliers at each end are discarded as I recall: Such yields one whole number that is not necessarily representative of the poll votes in such a limited survey. If the points were totaled as they were rated with one =1 and 2 = two and divided by the total number of votes we would get an average that would reflect in most cases the #1 rated heavy would have an average much greater than one and so on. They would be expressed in fractions which allows better sorting of fighters to almost always eliminate ties.

Oh, and no vote after the Breazeale/Ugonoh fight, and why was that? Breazeale as dire a boxer as he is, has two KOs over better comp than Wilder has fought and the one toughman loss to Joshua. I'd rank him higher than Wilder but for not coming up for a vote, a grave oversight IMV.

I'll address your final paragraph before the text in bold: I only make topics involving already ranked fighters, or fights that I think are worthy of a topic. However, I will make a new topic if two or more posters request one be made for the same fight, so if you can get one person to second your notion, I will add it to the next post.

As for the method of tallying the votes, it is pure median and discarding the lower and higher votes would have no impact on a median vote anyhow. Using median is a fairer and more representative method of tallying votes as it ensures that the majority rules and all votes are worth the same. Using the mean of a points based system is more open to manipulation, as outlying votes have a greater impact than others. As we've discussed this before, I know you understand all of the above, but for the benefit of anyone who does understand how it works, here is an example below:

Fighter A receives votes of: 1, 5, 7, 8, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, 12 and 13.
Using the existing method of taking the median (the middle number), Fighter A will be ranked #10.
Using the mean, Fighter A will be ranked #9.

Looking at these results, we can see than 7 out of 11 voters believed that Fighter A should be ranked below the fighter in the #9 position. Using the median means that the majority always rules, with no exceptions. Using the mean, 4 voters overrule the other 7, in part due to the person who wanted Fighter A ranked #1. It's quite possible that this person actually thought Fighter A should really be ranked #9, but voted him to a higher position because he knew it would influence the final result in his favour. The same could happen in reverse, with people voting fighters 'out' just to lower their mean rank in the direction they want. Using median eliminates this problem.

As for tied votes - this has happened a fair bit in recent times and I clearly needed a solution, so I decided to implement the rule that in the case of a tie, the fighter ranked higher before the topics retains his place, while the other slots in one position below.

[Heretic]

There will be vote for at least one open spot soon. We might see Breazeale enter then.

Beating Ugonoh is not enough to push anyone in the top 15 in my opinion. Good boxer but still unproven at high level.

Breazeale also took quite beating from Mansour before he got injured.

Using the median is good way to do the rankings