Wilfred Benitez vs Roberto Duran: 35 Years Later

[Ambling Alp II]

The punch hit landed illegally. That is what counts. Besides that Hearns shoved him, pushed, bumped him, whatever you want to call it. That's illegal. That is plain as day. The knockdown is illegal for two reasons. Not saying it was intentional, but it happened.

[DareTBG]

Huge Duran fan here, but the guy simply didn't like slicksters. Benitez every time, unless Roberto can nail him and get the KO, which seems unlikely.

Duran was a slickster himself but there was definitely a style of slick boxing he didn't like when he got older and undisciplined.

[Ambling Alp II]

That is the second knockdown. As I have said before, it was the first knockdown that should not have counted.

[Kalan]

Huge Duran fan here, but the guy simply didn't like slicksters. Benitez every time, unless Roberto can nail him and get the KO, which seems unlikely.

Benitez wasn't very slick versus Leonard and Hearns.. Duran COULD be slick on a given night.. But you have to get ready for a fight. You can't have a horsesh!t camp and beat anybody.. On certain nights Duran was motivated.. Benitez was a guy you can attack and beat the crap out of him if you have the skills.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well, no that isn't what happened. Leonard wasn't trying to turn his back on him; and it wouldn't matter if he had done so anyway. This isn't the best footage of this; there have been others which shows it more clearly. The punch did not land on the ear; even Saad (who is a huge fan and hates Leonard) admits that.
There was a bump as well.
There is footage of this that shows it more clearly; you can't tell very well with this with Hearns back to us you can hardly see the bump.

[Kalan]

The punch landed to the back of the head so it's not a legal blow -- therefore there was no knockdown in a technical sense... But in many cases a referee will not catch that in real time ... and he will signal a knockdown and start counting, so it's an official knockdown.

However in this video it's unclear to the viewer what the referee's decision was -- because they deliberately cut that part out of this presentation.

[elmersalsa]

Huge Duran fan here, but the guy simply didn't like slicksters. Benitez every time, unless Roberto can nail him and get the KO, which seems unlikely.

Benitez wasn't very slick versus Leonard and Hearns.. Duran COULD be slick on a given night.. But you have to get ready for a fight. You can't have a horsesh!t camp and beat anybody.. On certain nights Duran was motivated.. Benitez was a guy you can attack and beat the crap out of him if you have the skills.

A well prepared Hands of Stone is very hard to beat.

The Radar was good that night. It seems that he did all the fighting, really. It was Benitez' night at his weight class, at his moment, at his time. Does that mean he beats Duran every time they fight? I think not. Does he has superior skills than Duran? I think not. Each one had something the other didn't had.

[Ambling Alp II]

Why do Leonard fanboys persist in trying to interpret the rules to suit their own agenda's? Tommy did NOT throw a looping punch that hit Leonard on the back of his head. Rather he threw a straight right, and Leonard TURNED his head and shoulders away from it, and got hit BEHIND his left ear for his pains. DON'T try and make out Hearns was a dirty fighter, and Leonard got fouled. He didn't.

Why do Leonard haters persist in trying to interpret the rules to suit their own agenda's? Hearns did throw a looping punch that hit Leonard on the back of his head. Hearns also bumped Leonard. Those are fouls. Nobody said that Hearns was a dirty fighter. Clean fighters can occasionally by accident commit fouls.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sorry to burtst your bubble, but I am not the only person in the world who thought there was a foul. Just on this Forum, your buddy Kalan even said so.
No reason to be rude.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You're the first person I've ever heard say Leonard was robbed on the cards. It's elite nuthugging.

[elmersalsa]

Benitez wasn't very slick versus Leonard and Hearns.. Duran COULD be slick on a given night.. But you have to get ready for a fight. You can't have a horsesh!t camp and beat anybody.. On certain nights Duran was motivated.. Benitez was a guy you can attack and beat the crap out of him if you have the skills.

A well prepared Hands of Stone is very hard to beat.

The Radar was good that night. It seems that he did all the fighting, really. It was Benitez' night at his weight class, at his moment, at his time. Does that mean he beats Duran every time they fight? I think not. Does he has superior skills than Duran? I think not. Each one had something the other didn't had.

Sorry, but as much as I love Duran, I simply don't believe he would have EVER had an answer to Wilfred's combination of slickness and speed.

To slick, too fast, and too hard to nail cleanly for the great Roberto.

Davey Moore would have kicked Duran's ass in a hurry if Duran came to fight the same way with Benitez.

I believe if both fighters are in a favorable and fair weight class like 140 or 147lbs, it would have been a much better fight. I see Duran winning by KO.

[Ambling Alp II]

You're the first person I've ever heard say Leonard was robbed on the cards. It's elite nuthugging.

I have never said that Leoanrd got robbed on the scorecards. I thought the draw was fair.

Maybe we can make a list of all the other fights where one fighter (like Leonard) landed more punches and hurt his opponents more times that he got hurt, yet got his a$$ kicked. I'm sure that would be a long list.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

[/u]

You're the first person I've ever heard say Leonard was robbed on the cards. It's elite nuthugging.

I have never said that Leoanrd got robbed on the scorecards. I thought the draw was fair.

Maybe we can make a list of all the other fights where one fighter (like Leonard) landed more punches and hurt his opponents more times that he got hurt, yet got his a$$ kicked. I'm sure that would be a long list.

You can make any list you want. Hearns got robbed. Everyone but you knows it, including Leonard. When it comes to ray, your love overwhelms your objectivity. It always has and it always will. Otherwise you're a very solid poster.

[davie]

Why does everyone have to pigeon holed into Leonard/Duran fanboys/haters??

I happen to hold the view, usually linked to Leonard fanboys, that Leonard fought the wrong fight the first time

I like both fighters as fighters, but if truth be known, Duran is one of my all time favourites, I rank him considerably higher and I have reservations about Sugar Ray's slightly sickly media friendly persona.

I hold the view because it is the way I have assessed it, rightly or wrongly, and have done so from an objective point of view as a boxing fan, who likes to think he knows a little bit (not a lot) about the sport

In saying that, I do accept Durans preparation for No Mas fight was a factor in him losing,
I do accept that Durans approach to the first fight played it's part in knocking Leonard out of his stride.
But for me Leonard was the better welterweight and if he fought to the right game plan, he had attributes and a style that would have been a very difficult match up for Duran, provided he approached it using the right game plan.

I will always rank Duran higher in terms of p4p ability and ATG credentials, I will always be a bigger Hands of Stone fan
But at 147lbs, fighting the right fight, Leonard win 7 or 8 times out of 10 IMHO.
Feel free to disagree..... but you're not a fan boy/hater just because you hold this opinion

[Ambling Alp II]

[/u]

You're the first person I've ever heard say Leonard was robbed on the cards. It's elite nuthugging.

I have never said that Leoanrd got robbed on the scorecards. I thought the draw was fair.

Maybe we can make a list of all the other fights where one fighter (like Leonard) landed more punches and hurt his opponents more times that he got hurt, yet got his a$$ kicked. I'm sure that would be a long list.

You can make any list you want. Hearns got robbed. Everyone but you knows it, including Leonard. When it comes to ray, your love overwhelms your objectivity. It always has and it always will. Otherwise you're a very solid poster.

You can't be robbed if you are hurt several times and the other guy hit you more than you hit him. He lost in both quality and quantity of punches. I have never heard of another fight where people have said a guy was robbed in a situation like that.

I am a Leonard fan. Most of us are fans of someone really good, not a stiff. You have your favorites and I have mine. Other people have theirs. Thanks for saying I was a solid poster. You make some good points yourself sometimes.

[Ambling Alp II]

Why does everyone have to pigeon holed into Leonard/Duran fanboys/haters??

I happen to hold the view, usually linked to Leonard fanboys, that Leonard fought the wrong fight the first time

I like both fighters as fighters, but if truth be known, Duran is one of my all time favourites, I rank him considerably higher and I have reservations about Sugar Ray's slightly sickly media friendly persona.

I hold the view because it is the way I have assessed it, rightly or wrongly, and have done so from an objective point of view as a boxing fan, who likes to think he knows a little bit (not a lot) about the sport

In saying that, I do accept Durans preparation for No Mas fight was a factor in him losing,
I do accept that Durans approach to the first fight played it's part in knocking Leonard out of his stride.
But for me Leonard was the better welterweight and if he fought to the right game plan, he had attributes and a style that would have been a very difficult match up for Duran, provided he approached it using the right game plan.

I will always rank Duran higher in terms of p4p ability and ATG credentials, I will always be a bigger Hands of Stone fan
But at 147lbs, fighting the right fight, Leonard win 7 or 8 times out of 10 IMHO.
Feel free to disagree..... but you're not a fan boy/hater just because you hold this opinion

Why should Duran be rated higher? What is this really based on?

Did Duran win the head to head? No.
Common opponents? Duran was 0-3 vs Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Leoanrd was 3-0-1.
Consistency? Duran had more embarrassing losses.
Top wins? Outside of each other, is it even close? Hagler, Hearns and Benitez were clearly better than Buchanan, DeJesus, Palomimo.

Outside of the usual Duran excuses and elmersalsa BS, what really is there that makes Duran a better fighter?

If you actually make a Top 50, Leonard has four wins over Top 50 fighters? How many others have done that? Less than 10.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

[/u]

I have never said that Leoanrd got robbed on the scorecards. I thought the draw was fair.

Maybe we can make a list of all the other fights where one fighter (like Leonard) landed more punches and hurt his opponents more times that he got hurt, yet got his a$$ kicked. I'm sure that would be a long list.

You can make any list you want. Hearns got robbed. Everyone but you knows it, including Leonard. When it comes to ray, your love overwhelms your objectivity. It always has and it always will. Otherwise you're a very solid poster.

You can't be robbed if you are hurt several times and the other guy hit you more than you hit him. He lost in both quality and quantity of punches. I have never heard of another fight where people have said a guy was robbed in a situation like that.

I am a Leonard fan. Most of us are fans of someone really good, not a stiff. You have your favorites and I have mine. Other people have theirs. Thanks for saying I was a solid poster. You make some good points yourself sometimes.

Well, I guess you're right and the rest of the people that watched the fight are wrong. Fair enough.

[Chuck1052]

Roberto Duran was at his peak as a lightweight. In other words, Duran had seen better days after starting to fight as a welterweight despite remaining a very formidable fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

[Ambling Alp II]

I have always thought that was a copout, so there would be a built in excuses for his losses when he moved up in weight.
He was just 26 years old when he fought his last fight at lightweight. He wasn't going to say at lightweight forever. He had performances at lightweight that weren't that impressive; and he had some great performances above 135.

His competition was much better above 135.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Roberto Duran was at his peak as a lightweight. In other words, Duran had seen better days after starting to fight as a welterweight despite remaining a very formidable fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

Duran never looked better than against palomino & Leonard. Dejesus 3 is the only lightweight fight in that class. Anything after no mas was icing on the cake.

[Chuck1052]

I was not trying to cop out in regards to assessing Roberto Duran. The fact remains that he was a natural lightweight despite remaining a formidable fighter as he put on more weight. As someone who was a boxing fan during the 1970s and 1980s, I formed my opinion about Duran at the time.

- Chuck Johnston

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I didn't think you were copping out, I just disagree with you.

[Kalan]

Roberto Duran was at his peak as a lightweight. In other words, Duran had seen better days after starting to fight as a welterweight despite remaining a very formidable fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

I think this is correct... Duran turned pro in 1968 at 119 and became Lightweight Champion 4 years later by stopping Ken Buchanan.. 6 years later in his 64th professional fight he fought his last fight as a Lightweight knocking out Esaban De Jesus for the 2nd time.. He gave up the Lightweight Title in 1979 to campaign at higher weights and he targeted Sugar Ray Leonard.. His victory over Ray Leonard marked his 72nd victory in 73 fights -- and it also marked a turning point for Duran -- because he started to live it up and party it up in a style he never allowed himself to do before.

Duran boxed and fought very well on occasion after that -- but didn't train with the same consistency and intensity... He had brilliant fights with Davey Moore and Iran Barkley, who were certainly not outstanding boxers... He also fought poorly against some outstanding fighters and some mediocre fighters...

But I think it will be a while before somebody who remains Lightweight Champion until their 64th professional fight wins a World Middleweight Title.

[elmersalsa]

Before The No Mas, Duran's world championship record was 14-0 with 12KOs.

After The No Mas, his world title fight record was
2-6, 1KO

Of his 16 losses, 14 of them were after turning 30.

This means that by 30 years of age, a boxer starts losing something. The first thing a boxer starts to lose at that age is reflexes and speed.

[Kalan]

That's NOT what it means... Some boxers don't even reach their peak by 30...

Bernard Hopkins probably reached his peak around 36... Wilfredo Benitez was on the slide well before 30... Duran's best may have been De Jesus III at 135.