Worst arguments

[APerno]

Why?

I think meaning that is a 'worst argument' ...

Doh! OK - good point!

[IKSRTFO]

They DID dominate them.. All the greatest boxers the K Bros fought -- they dominated them all.

Chris Byrd was a better pure boxer than Louis and only outweighed him by about 13 pounds with a little height advantage... Waldimir out boxed him every single round of 19 rounds.

Calvin Brock was 29-0 which Joe Louis never got to... He was a good boxer who only weighed 25 pounds more than Louis but was much smaller than Wladimir... He was sh!tcanned like nobody's business... He only lost 2 fights in his career and only Klitschko knocked him out.

David Haye was a 2-Division World Champion who's still a top ranking and super skillful Heavyweight... He's faster, bigger, taller, and a bigger puncher than Louis... Haye is still great at an age where Louis was having money problems and wanted to retire -- because Louis was beaten silly by that age and was performing badly... The chinny Walcott had Louis down 2 or 3 times and punched him goofy before losing a robbery decision.

Eddie Chambers was 35-1 and a top flight boxer... He was 6'1" X 210 and Wlad reeled off every round before inflicting the only KO of Chamber's career.

Kevin Johnson was undefeated and a slick boxer and Vitali easily beat him...

Kirk Johnson was 34-1-1 and could box and punch... Vitali flattened him in 2 rounds.

Larry Donald was 39-2-2 and a very slick boxer who beat Evander Holyfield easily... Vitali is the only fighter who ever knocked him out.

Vaughn Bean was 42-2 and had nice skills... Vitali is the only boxer who ever stopped him

Tomasz Adamek was 44-1 and a 2-Division World Champion with great skills.. Vitali dominated him and was the first boxer who ever stopped him.

Juan Carlos Gomez was 44-1 and a surpassing boxer and a World Crusierweight Champion.. Vitali dominated and stopped him.

That's only 10 good boxers who the K Bros dominated...

Joe Louis didn't do that well... Who were all the fabulously skilled boxers who LOUIS out boxed and dominated???? .... ?????

Ahhh Conn.. Charles.. and Walcott??? ... Hmmm... They lost a lot and Louis didn't dominate them... They outboxed him pretty good

Chris Byrd - Better pure boxer?? My foot !! He was shorter than Louis and weighed 168 - 190 at his natural weight. He also had a shorter reach. He had nowhere near the Power of Louis or finishing ability. He was a decent fighter and overachieved. He did force Vitali to quit ....he beat McCline which proved a good littl'n of equal ability to a good big'n can win! I was at that fight and Byrd done well to come back from a knockdown. Wins over Tua ( who was bigger(around the waist)) But losses to the legendary Shaun George, Drug cheat Povetkin and getting annihilated by the insane Ibeabuchi hardly puts him in the hall of fame greats Louis belonged to.

Calvin Brock - About the same size in stature as Louis - same height, virtually identical reach. When in a reasonable shape he was around 16stone...but he was hardly athletic looking. Had potential and was a nice fellah. He was a decent boxer though imo without a really significant win..his most significant victory was probably a close decision win over the past his best Jameel McCline. Not many other victories over top heavies. Again to put him in the same corridor as the great Louis is totally laughable.

David Haye - Similar in height to Louis - 1 inch taller but Louis wore thicker shoes. Reach wise he had a couple of inches on Louis. Naturally a cruiserweight of course and was soundly beaten by Blood and Guts warrior Carl Thompson. Very poor opposition at Heavyweight - his stand out win was outboxing the enormous Nikolay Valuev. A very dynamic fighter though and someone who I feel belongs in any era - I believe he had the beating of Wladimir - if it wasn't for that damn toe!

Eddie Chambers - Smaller than Louis in every way - shorter, lighter(when fit) , smaller reach. A nice smart boxer with decent skills - just lacking that killer instinct and championship quality. Lost to the tough cruiswerweight Thabiso Mchunu and drug cheat Povetkin. Chambers is a long way behind Joe Louis' shadow let alone Joe Louis!!!!

Kevin Johnson - Had beaten no one prior to fighting Vitali - he did manage to beat a post incarcerated Seldon who was 41. Lost to Tor Hamer, Chritian Hammer, Dereck Chisora and even Manuel Charr. Every time he stepped up like against Vitali, Fury and Joshua he was soundly beaten. He was a big guy at 17stone with an enormous 82 inch reach - same height as Louis when Louis wore his thick shoes. .His best win was over Alex Leapai...but that isn't saying much....

Kirk Johnson - He had the potential to do better than what he achieved - a classic under achiever. About the same size as Louis in height - with a longer reach - around 15-16 stone mark when in shape. Which wasn't often. considering he had the legendary Curtis Cokes in his corner that always puzzled me. Was more than 18 1/2 stone when he fought Vitali and seriously let himself down by weighing that much. It was the talk of the fight. He had a few decent wins against Larry Donald, Maskaev and Nicholson. But an inexcusable loss to Ruiz tarnished his accomplishments.
Once again he cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Louis..please!!

Vaughn Bean - A natural cruiserweight when fit - smaller than Louis - 5ft 11 inches and shorter reach. Vaughn was decent but never beat a top contender and lost every time he stepped up in class. A decent win for Vitali though.

Thomas Adamek - Again a Light Heavyweight - smaller than Louis naturally. Less reach and height....Nowhere near as good either. Had decent boxing ability of course but fought Vitali far too late in his career. Not that he would ever have beaten him.

Juan Carlos Gomez - Was a cruiserweight who was knocked out in 1 round by Yanqui Diaz and Kudryashov. Past his best granted but that doesn't factor into arguments in Kalan's world! Could you imagine him surviving 3 rounds with a prime Louis. ??? Never

Wladimir was beaten by by Lamon Brewster who had the same dimensions as Louis - a naturally 15stone - 16 stone heavy. He flattened Wladimir. Joe Louis was twice as good! At least... Wladimir was beaten by the very Limited Ross Purrity ...he was flattened by the late almost great Corrie Sanders who was naturally 14 1/2 stone when fit - tall and fast and dangerous. I think Wlad was dropped around 10 times in his career. Far more than Louis.
Don't get me wrong Wlad is a great fighter and was dominant. But I will stick my neck out and say that with different officiating he would have lost more.
Vitali - a different beast. He quit against Byrd and was bashed up by Lewis. He was very competitive against a hopelessly out of shape / past his prime Lewis. He was staggered badly against Sanders on a few occasions most notably the first round. Although a self confessed steroid user early in his career he was a very tough competitor who would be hard to beat by anyone. Again he has always had the favour of the referees that allow the jab and clutch style. A fit Corrie may have knocked him out that night. Sanders was sporting a full Ziff Ifrkan pot belly in their match.

Joe Louis - remember lost only once in his prime. Defended his title 25 times with 22 knockouts. Champion 11 years when the crown was undisputed. I'm sorry, but if the fight took place in the 1930s Louis was devestate both Klitschko brothers..and brutally. He had that winning mentality and the crowds would not stand for the clinching tactics allowed by seemingly biased refs today....in my opinion.

You just posted a lot of crap.

Vitali was not a "self confessed steroid user" When he was an amateur he mistakenly was prescribed a medication that contained a steriod. It was his responsibility to check the ingredients in all meds and that one got by him. But he's past 100's of drug tests without fail as a professional and never abused drugs.

Lamon Brewster was 30 pounds larger than Louis...

Wadimir easily beat Brewster in the rematch when he wasn't drugged...

Lewis was LOSING on ALL scorecards to Vitali post fight, and only won because the fight didn't go to the cards... The cuts were caused by foul blows.

Bryd is taller than Louis was.. Louis was always listed as 6'1" on every stat except boxrec's.. He looks the same height when standing next to anybody listed at 6'1" like Liston, Schemling, Dempsey, Johansson, and even slightly shorter in the cases of Dempsey and Liston.

Louis was knocked down 10 times... He was dumped by Schmeling X 2, Braddock, Galento, Buddy Baer. Walcott X 3 and Marciano X 2 That's 10 times and Wladimir was also dropped 10 times, but never in his last 20 fights since he learned how to box.. Earlier he was down once by Puritty, 4 X by Sanders, 1 X by Brewster, Robert Byrd specifically ruled a "no-knockdown" in the 5th because the bell had sounded before Brewster landed his final punch and Wladimir fell from a drug induced stupor.. He was also dropped once by Williamson... and 3 X by Peter...

But Wladimir met bigger, stronger, and harder punchers than Louis met... Braddock, Walcott, and Galento were hardly hitters... Braddock had a KO ratio of 30% Walcott 45% Galento 51%... Schmeling 57% --- Brewster had a KO ratio of 73%. Sanders 67% and Peter 69% Williamson 66%

The referees allowed endless clinching in Louis's day... They're much stricter today... The way Louis got tagged up like crazy by Schmeling, Conn, and Walcott, and considering they were all shorties were way under 200 pounds, Wladimir with his much greater height, weight, reach, size, and strength would bomb Louis out like he did Mercer, Brock, Byrd, and Chambers... If it were a distance fight, which I very much doubt, WK would have his way like he did with Haye... Louis was too easy to outbox as 174-pound Conn proved.

When did ANY of these big guys you speak of EVER fight 15 rounds? What makes you think they have the conditioning before tiring out? Maybe training for a 15+ round fight had some bearing on the guys being smaller won't you think? Likely that's the reason Mayweather has remained smaller and more in shape than the guys in his era because he actually trains to go longer than 12 rounds compared to most of today's fighters.

[evrenb]

True that..very true..

[Kalan]

Chris Byrd - Better pure boxer?? My foot !! He was shorter than Louis and weighed 168 - 190 at his natural weight. He also had a shorter reach. He had nowhere near the Power of Louis or finishing ability. He was a decent fighter and overachieved. He did force Vitali to quit ....he beat McCline which proved a good littl'n of equal ability to a good big'n can win! I was at that fight and Byrd done well to come back from a knockdown. Wins over Tua ( who was bigger(around the waist)) But losses to the legendary Shaun George, Drug cheat Povetkin and getting annihilated by the insane Ibeabuchi hardly puts him in the hall of fame greats Louis belonged to.

Calvin Brock - About the same size in stature as Louis - same height, virtually identical reach. When in a reasonable shape he was around 16stone...but he was hardly athletic looking. Had potential and was a nice fellah. He was a decent boxer though imo without a really significant win..his most significant victory was probably a close decision win over the past his best Jameel McCline. Not many other victories over top heavies. Again to put him in the same corridor as the great Louis is totally laughable.

David Haye - Similar in height to Louis - 1 inch taller but Louis wore thicker shoes. Reach wise he had a couple of inches on Louis. Naturally a cruiserweight of course and was soundly beaten by Blood and Guts warrior Carl Thompson. Very poor opposition at Heavyweight - his stand out win was outboxing the enormous Nikolay Valuev. A very dynamic fighter though and someone who I feel belongs in any era - I believe he had the beating of Wladimir - if it wasn't for that damn toe!

Eddie Chambers - Smaller than Louis in every way - shorter, lighter(when fit) , smaller reach. A nice smart boxer with decent skills - just lacking that killer instinct and championship quality. Lost to the tough cruiswerweight Thabiso Mchunu and drug cheat Povetkin. Chambers is a long way behind Joe Louis' shadow let alone Joe Louis!!!!

Kevin Johnson - Had beaten no one prior to fighting Vitali - he did manage to beat a post incarcerated Seldon who was 41. Lost to Tor Hamer, Chritian Hammer, Dereck Chisora and even Manuel Charr. Every time he stepped up like against Vitali, Fury and Joshua he was soundly beaten. He was a big guy at 17stone with an enormous 82 inch reach - same height as Louis when Louis wore his thick shoes. .His best win was over Alex Leapai...but that isn't saying much....

Kirk Johnson - He had the potential to do better than what he achieved - a classic under achiever. About the same size as Louis in height - with a longer reach - around 15-16 stone mark when in shape. Which wasn't often. considering he had the legendary Curtis Cokes in his corner that always puzzled me. Was more than 18 1/2 stone when he fought Vitali and seriously let himself down by weighing that much. It was the talk of the fight. He had a few decent wins against Larry Donald, Maskaev and Nicholson. But an inexcusable loss to Ruiz tarnished his accomplishments.
Once again he cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Louis..please!!

Vaughn Bean - A natural cruiserweight when fit - smaller than Louis - 5ft 11 inches and shorter reach. Vaughn was decent but never beat a top contender and lost every time he stepped up in class. A decent win for Vitali though.

Thomas Adamek - Again a Light Heavyweight - smaller than Louis naturally. Less reach and height....Nowhere near as good either. Had decent boxing ability of course but fought Vitali far too late in his career. Not that he would ever have beaten him.

Juan Carlos Gomez - Was a cruiserweight who was knocked out in 1 round by Yanqui Diaz and Kudryashov. Past his best granted but that doesn't factor into arguments in Kalan's world! Could you imagine him surviving 3 rounds with a prime Louis. ??? Never

Wladimir was beaten by by Lamon Brewster who had the same dimensions as Louis - a naturally 15stone - 16 stone heavy. He flattened Wladimir. Joe Louis was twice as good! At least... Wladimir was beaten by the very Limited Ross Purrity ...he was flattened by the late almost great Corrie Sanders who was naturally 14 1/2 stone when fit - tall and fast and dangerous. I think Wlad was dropped around 10 times in his career. Far more than Louis.
Don't get me wrong Wlad is a great fighter and was dominant. But I will stick my neck out and say that with different officiating he would have lost more.
Vitali - a different beast. He quit against Byrd and was bashed up by Lewis. He was very competitive against a hopelessly out of shape / past his prime Lewis. He was staggered badly against Sanders on a few occasions most notably the first round. Although a self confessed steroid user early in his career he was a very tough competitor who would be hard to beat by anyone. Again he has always had the favour of the referees that allow the jab and clutch style. A fit Corrie may have knocked him out that night. Sanders was sporting a full Ziff Ifrkan pot belly in their match.

Joe Louis - remember lost only once in his prime. Defended his title 25 times with 22 knockouts. Champion 11 years when the crown was undisputed. I'm sorry, but if the fight took place in the 1930s Louis was devestate both Klitschko brothers..and brutally. He had that winning mentality and the crowds would not stand for the clinching tactics allowed by seemingly biased refs today....in my opinion.

You just posted a lot of crap.

Vitali was not a "self confessed steroid user" When he was an amateur he mistakenly was prescribed a medication that contained a steriod. It was his responsibility to check the ingredients in all meds and that one got by him. But he's past 100's of drug tests without fail as a professional and never abused drugs.

Lamon Brewster was 30 pounds larger than Louis...

Wadimir easily beat Brewster in the rematch when he wasn't drugged...

Lewis was LOSING on ALL scorecards to Vitali post fight, and only won because the fight didn't go to the cards... The cuts were caused by foul blows.

Bryd is taller than Louis was.. Louis was always listed as 6'1" on every stat except boxrec's.. He looks the same height when standing next to anybody listed at 6'1" like Liston, Schemling, Dempsey, Johansson, and even slightly shorter in the cases of Dempsey and Liston.

Louis was knocked down 10 times... He was dumped by Schmeling X 2, Braddock, Galento, Buddy Baer. Walcott X 3 and Marciano X 2 That's 10 times and Wladimir was also dropped 10 times, but never in his last 20 fights since he learned how to box.. Earlier he was down once by Puritty, 4 X by Sanders, 1 X by Brewster, Robert Byrd specifically ruled a "no-knockdown" in the 5th because the bell had sounded before Brewster landed his final punch and Wladimir fell from a drug induced stupor.. He was also dropped once by Williamson... and 3 X by Peter...

But Wladimir met bigger, stronger, and harder punchers than Louis met... Braddock, Walcott, and Galento were hardly hitters... Braddock had a KO ratio of 30% Walcott 45% Galento 51%... Schmeling 57% --- Brewster had a KO ratio of 73%. Sanders 67% and Peter 69% Williamson 66%

The referees allowed endless clinching in Louis's day... They're much stricter today... The way Louis got tagged up like crazy by Schmeling, Conn, and Walcott, and considering they were all shorties were way under 200 pounds, Wladimir with his much greater height, weight, reach, size, and strength would bomb Louis out like he did Mercer, Brock, Byrd, and Chambers... If it were a distance fight, which I very much doubt, WK would have his way like he did with Haye... Louis was too easy to outbox as 174-pound Conn proved.

When did ANY of these big guys you speak of EVER fight 15 rounds? What makes you think they have the conditioning before tiring out? Maybe training for a 15+ round fight had some bearing on the guys being smaller won't you think? Likely that's the reason Mayweather has remained smaller and more in shape than the guys in his era because he actually trains to go longer than 12 rounds compared to most of today's fighters.

Wladimir finished almost all his fights that went 12 rounds very strongly and with energy to burn... He was 39 when he fought Fury so he wasn't able to get his punches off due to slowed reflexes and the fact he was fighting a much taller, faster, and bigger man... He knocked out Chambers in the final 15 seconds because Fast Eddie was tiring... He also finished strong vs Ibragimov, Povetkin, Haye, Jennings, Thompson 1, Peter 1, Wach, McCline, and all his fights that went a substantial distance.

Championship Fights used to be scheduled for 25 rounds in Jim Jeffrries' day.. He knocked Jim Corbett out in the 23rd round and fought Tom Sharkey for 25 rounds.. The Dempsey-Tunney Fights were only 10 rounds.. So it doesn't matter how many rounds you go -- because a well trained boxer could fight 30 rounds.. It's whether you have the boxing skills, height, weight, reach, speed, strength, power, and smarts to win the rounds.. Louis certainly had a lot of gloves in his face when he fought little Billy Conn, who weighed only 174 and only had only 2 of those attributes. That was a prime and experienced Louis. He didn't get any better after that..

And Louis certainly looked bloated and out of shape when he fought Walcott, Charles, and Marciano.. Wladimir is 41 and still arrives in much better condition for all his fights than Louis did for his last fights -- even though he's too old to beat the best in the world anymore. Everyone gets old, but Wladimir defended the Heavyweight Championship in more consecutive years than any other Heavyweight Champion.

[Ambling Alp II]

Chris Byrd - Better pure boxer?? My foot !! He was shorter than Louis and weighed 168 - 190 at his natural weight. He also had a shorter reach. He had nowhere near the Power of Louis or finishing ability. He was a decent fighter and overachieved. He did force Vitali to quit ....he beat McCline which proved a good littl'n of equal ability to a good big'n can win! I was at that fight and Byrd done well to come back from a knockdown. Wins over Tua ( who was bigger(around the waist)) But losses to the legendary Shaun George, Drug cheat Povetkin and getting annihilated by the insane Ibeabuchi hardly puts him in the hall of fame greats Louis belonged to.

Calvin Brock - About the same size in stature as Louis - same height, virtually identical reach. When in a reasonable shape he was around 16stone...but he was hardly athletic looking. Had potential and was a nice fellah. He was a decent boxer though imo without a really significant win..his most significant victory was probably a close decision win over the past his best Jameel McCline. Not many other victories over top heavies. Again to put him in the same corridor as the great Louis is totally laughable.

David Haye - Similar in height to Louis - 1 inch taller but Louis wore thicker shoes. Reach wise he had a couple of inches on Louis. Naturally a cruiserweight of course and was soundly beaten by Blood and Guts warrior Carl Thompson. Very poor opposition at Heavyweight - his stand out win was outboxing the enormous Nikolay Valuev. A very dynamic fighter though and someone who I feel belongs in any era - I believe he had the beating of Wladimir - if it wasn't for that damn toe!

Eddie Chambers - Smaller than Louis in every way - shorter, lighter(when fit) , smaller reach. A nice smart boxer with decent skills - just lacking that killer instinct and championship quality. Lost to the tough cruiswerweight Thabiso Mchunu and drug cheat Povetkin. Chambers is a long way behind Joe Louis' shadow let alone Joe Louis!!!!

Kevin Johnson - Had beaten no one prior to fighting Vitali - he did manage to beat a post incarcerated Seldon who was 41. Lost to Tor Hamer, Chritian Hammer, Dereck Chisora and even Manuel Charr. Every time he stepped up like against Vitali, Fury and Joshua he was soundly beaten. He was a big guy at 17stone with an enormous 82 inch reach - same height as Louis when Louis wore his thick shoes. .His best win was over Alex Leapai...but that isn't saying much....

Kirk Johnson - He had the potential to do better than what he achieved - a classic under achiever. About the same size as Louis in height - with a longer reach - around 15-16 stone mark when in shape. Which wasn't often. considering he had the legendary Curtis Cokes in his corner that always puzzled me. Was more than 18 1/2 stone when he fought Vitali and seriously let himself down by weighing that much. It was the talk of the fight. He had a few decent wins against Larry Donald, Maskaev and Nicholson. But an inexcusable loss to Ruiz tarnished his accomplishments.
Once again he cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Louis..please!!

Vaughn Bean - A natural cruiserweight when fit - smaller than Louis - 5ft 11 inches and shorter reach. Vaughn was decent but never beat a top contender and lost every time he stepped up in class. A decent win for Vitali though.

Thomas Adamek - Again a Light Heavyweight - smaller than Louis naturally. Less reach and height....Nowhere near as good either. Had decent boxing ability of course but fought Vitali far too late in his career. Not that he would ever have beaten him.

Juan Carlos Gomez - Was a cruiserweight who was knocked out in 1 round by Yanqui Diaz and Kudryashov. Past his best granted but that doesn't factor into arguments in Kalan's world! Could you imagine him surviving 3 rounds with a prime Louis. ??? Never

Wladimir was beaten by by Lamon Brewster who had the same dimensions as Louis - a naturally 15stone - 16 stone heavy. He flattened Wladimir. Joe Louis was twice as good! At least... Wladimir was beaten by the very Limited Ross Purrity ...he was flattened by the late almost great Corrie Sanders who was naturally 14 1/2 stone when fit - tall and fast and dangerous. I think Wlad was dropped around 10 times in his career. Far more than Louis.
Don't get me wrong Wlad is a great fighter and was dominant. But I will stick my neck out and say that with different officiating he would have lost more.
Vitali - a different beast. He quit against Byrd and was bashed up by Lewis. He was very competitive against a hopelessly out of shape / past his prime Lewis. He was staggered badly against Sanders on a few occasions most notably the first round. Although a self confessed steroid user early in his career he was a very tough competitor who would be hard to beat by anyone. Again he has always had the favour of the referees that allow the jab and clutch style. A fit Corrie may have knocked him out that night. Sanders was sporting a full Ziff Ifrkan pot belly in their match.

Joe Louis - remember lost only once in his prime. Defended his title 25 times with 22 knockouts. Champion 11 years when the crown was undisputed. I'm sorry, but if the fight took place in the 1930s Louis was devestate both Klitschko brothers..and brutally. He had that winning mentality and the crowds would not stand for the clinching tactics allowed by seemingly biased refs today....in my opinion.

You just posted a lot of crap.

Vitali was not a "self confessed steroid user" When he was an amateur he mistakenly was prescribed a medication that contained a steriod. It was his responsibility to check the ingredients in all meds and that one got by him. But he's past 100's of drug tests without fail as a professional and never abused drugs.

Lamon Brewster was 30 pounds larger than Louis...

Wadimir easily beat Brewster in the rematch when he wasn't drugged...

Lewis was LOSING on ALL scorecards to Vitali post fight, and only won because the fight didn't go to the cards... The cuts were caused by foul blows.

Bryd is taller than Louis was.. Louis was always listed as 6'1" on every stat except boxrec's.. He looks the same height when standing next to anybody listed at 6'1" like Liston, Schemling, Dempsey, Johansson, and even slightly shorter in the cases of Dempsey and Liston.

Louis was knocked down 10 times... He was dumped by Schmeling X 2, Braddock, Galento, Buddy Baer. Walcott X 3 and Marciano X 2 That's 10 times and Wladimir was also dropped 10 times, but never in his last 20 fights since he learned how to box.. Earlier he was down once by Puritty, 4 X by Sanders, 1 X by Brewster, Robert Byrd specifically ruled a "no-knockdown" in the 5th because the bell had sounded before Brewster landed his final punch and Wladimir fell from a drug induced stupor.. He was also dropped once by Williamson... and 3 X by Peter...

But Wladimir met bigger, stronger, and harder punchers than Louis met... Braddock, Walcott, and Galento were hardly hitters... Braddock had a KO ratio of 30% Walcott 45% Galento 51%... Schmeling 57% --- Brewster had a KO ratio of 73%. Sanders 67% and Peter 69% Williamson 66%

The referees allowed endless clinching in Louis's day... They're much stricter today... The way Louis got tagged up like crazy by Schmeling, Conn, and Walcott, and considering they were all shorties were way under 200 pounds, Wladimir with his much greater height, weight, reach, size, and strength would bomb Louis out like he did Mercer, Brock, Byrd, and Chambers... If it were a distance fight, which I very much doubt, WK would have his way like he did with Haye... Louis was too easy to outbox as 174-pound Conn proved.

When did ANY of these big guys you speak of EVER fight 15 rounds? What makes you think they have the conditioning before tiring out? Maybe training for a 15+ round fight had some bearing on the guys being smaller won't you think? Likely that's the reason Mayweather has remained smaller and more in shape than the guys in his era because he actually trains to go longer than 12 rounds compared to most of today's fighters.

Good pointt. The heavyweights today pace thmesleves so much. Can you imagine if they had to 15 rounds? Thhe fights would be even more boring.

Of course people believe what hey want to beleive, regardless of the evidence.

Kalan thinks Klitschko had great stamina. He was gassed against Purrity and Brewster. He then had to fight an a very slow pace.
Kalan's buddy thinks Vitaly was fast. He used as evidence that he 53 ko's. huh?

They automatically dismiss fighters before their time.
If the guy wasn't huge than they think he couldn't be good. If he beat huge guys, then those guys were "stooges" even though they don't know hardly anything about them.

I just wish we discuss guys in a rational manner and forget how bug they were or when they fought.

[Kalan]

Kalan thinks Klitschko had great stamina. He was gassed against Purrity and Brewster. He then had to fight an a very slow pace. Kalan's buddy thinks Vitaly was fast. He used as evidence that he 53 ko's. huh?

They automatically dismiss fighters before their time. If the guy wasn't huge than they think he couldn't be good. If he beat huge guys, then those guys were "stooges" even though they don't know hardly anything about them. I just wish we discuss guys in a rational manner and forget how bug they were or when they fought.

Klitschko was underweight against Purrity because he suffered from the flu prior to that fight... He never came within 10 pounds of 224 in any subsequent fight... He was drugged against Brewster and had no trouble easily beating him in their rematch... which was a fair fight.

Speed is relative... Louis was a lot slower than Billy Conn and got out-punched badly by the numbers -- but was fast enough to knock Conn out.

Vitali Klitschko out-scored the speedy Lewis -- who easily out-scored the slower Tyson by a million miles in his previous fight... Vitali was winning on all cards vs Lewis after the fight, so he couldn't have been too damned slow.. Tomasz Adamek out-boxed the slow Michael Grant to earn a title shot at Vitali Klitschko.. Grant was too fast for the turtle slow Golota.. Vitali was 40 years old -- but VK out-punched the slick Adamek 4 to 1 before knocking him out.. If you're much faster at 40 than a much younger and smaller skilled boxer, then you're pretty damned fast -- and Vitali was very fast.. He was NEVER out-boxed.

[Kalan]

Ambler... "They automatically dismiss fighters before their time"

Some of my favorite fighters are: Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... and Willie Pep... They were before my time even in Pep's prime years...

Guys who are in my time, but go back a long ways and are my favorites: Eder Jofre... Salvador Sanchez... Roberto Duran... Carlos Monzon... and Larry Holmes