How bad did David Haye look?

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Haye looked just fine in the first half of the fight and was dominating the action like everyone expected. Then he tore his achilles and people are trying to read into how he looked after that? Haye is not shot at all, he got hurt, which he is what he's known for. His skills have not eroded much from I see. His body has betrayed him his whole career, even when in his prime.

Haye did not look fine before the injury at all.

He looked slow & his timing was way off.

He looked a long way from the Haye of 2009.

[Enlightened-One]

We don’t know much about Haye’s physical well-being before the Bellew fight, so he may not have been 100%. However, when David abandoned his original strategy of trying to score a one-punch KO with clumsy looping hooks, by boxing and jabbing to the body instead, he started to look fairly decent against an (initially) defensively-minded Bellew, which resulted in him winning the vast majority of the first five rounds of that fight.

I think that Haye could be a bit like Chris Eubank Sr., where he’s very good at counterpunching and employing lateral movement against vintage 'stalk-til-they-can't-walk' aggressive type opponents, but pretty poor when the roles are reversed, when he’s forced to be the aggressor that chases defensively minded prey.

Apart from being injury prone, there’s not enough evidence to justify claims of Haye being considered a shot fighter, because prior to the ruptured Achilles, it seemed to me that it was only the type of gameplan he employed that determined whether he looked “good” or “bad” during various stages of the Bellew fight.

[actjac]

Some of these comments are strange. Haye was winning the fight comfortably before getting hurt. What did you expect from after that fighting on one leg?

My gawd!. . . .Haye was always way over rated as a heavyweight. . . .In this case against Bellew he was shot.

[boxing_rocks]

Hay looked exactly like Martinez looked against Cotto - crippled.

[Loki]

Haye looked just fine in the first half of the fight and was dominating the action like everyone expected. Then he tore his achilles and people are trying to read into how he looked after that? Haye is not shot at all, he got hurt, which he is what he's known for. His skills have not eroded much from I see. His body has betrayed him his whole career, even when in his prime.

Haye did not look fine before the injury at all.

He looked slow & his timing was way off.

He looked a long way from the Haye of 2009.

Compared to the Haye that fought Chisora, he is unrecognisable. I hear he has £ problems, a bounced £300k cheque, credit card declined and he sold his boxing ring. I'm beginning to think his return wasn't motivated to win titles and that is probably why he didn't quit after snapping Achilles. I give him full credit for sticking in there, he was a sitting duck.

[evrenb]

Problem is I guess is if you are telling everyone how good you are, how you can beat x,y and z...how your opponent doesn't belong in the ring with you..he's fat etc...then you act arrogant on top of that....then perform like he did then it is bound to leave you open for criticism...no???

[Enlightened-One]

Problem is I guess is if you are telling everyone how good you are, how you can beat x,y and z...how your opponent doesn't belong in the ring with you..he's fat etc...then you act arrogant on top of that....then perform like he did then it is bound to leave you open for criticism...no???

Professional boxing is a business primarily built upon entertaining its consumers, with trash-talking now considered an essential and commonly-used ploy to drive demand, which results in boxers often having to compromise their principles due to needing to adopt “theatrical” grotesque caricature personas of themselves in order to generate publicity.

Unfortunately, those who choose to lead by example, to become role models, such as Andre Ward, are often perceived by fight fans as being “boring”, which often has a detrimental effect on the typical size of their paydays (i.e. the S.O.G.’s fight purses were nearly always far less than those paid to Carl Froch).

Therefore, please don’t take the over-the-top WWE-like personalities or press conference antics seriously. Any controversy or perceived “grudges” we witness during the built-up of fights is nearly always a performance in order to gain attention from the media and fans, where the sole aim is to generate interest in their bout.

[evrenb]

Problem is I guess is if you are telling everyone how good you are, how you can beat x,y and z...how your opponent doesn't belong in the ring with you..he's fat etc...then you act arrogant on top of that....then perform like he did then it is bound to leave you open for criticism...no???

Professional boxing is a business primarily built upon entertaining its consumers, with trash-talking now considered an essential and commonly-used ploy to drive demand, which results in boxers often having to compromise their principles due to needing to adopt “theatrical” grotesque caricature personas of themselves in order to generate publicity.

Unfortunately, those who choose to lead by example, to become role models, such as Andre Ward, are often perceived by fight fans as being “boring”, which often has a detrimental effect on the typical size of their paydays (i.e. the S.O.G.’s fight purses were nearly always far less than those paid to Carl Froch).

Therefore, please don’t take the over-the-top WWE-like personalities or press conference antics seriously. Any controversy or perceived “grudges” we witness during the built-up of fights is nearly always a performance in order to gain attention from the media and fans in order generate interest in their bout.

GGG doesn't behave that way...he is a gentleman. Yet he does all his talking in the ring....I think Wards problem is his fighting style.

[Enlightened-One]

Problem is I guess is if you are telling everyone how good you are, how you can beat x,y and z...how your opponent doesn't belong in the ring with you..he's fat etc...then you act arrogant on top of that....then perform like he did then it is bound to leave you open for criticism...no???

Professional boxing is a business primarily built upon entertaining its consumers, with trash-talking now considered an essential and commonly-used ploy to drive demand, which results in boxers often having to compromise their principles due to needing to adopt “theatrical” grotesque caricature personas of themselves in order to generate publicity.

Unfortunately, those who choose to lead by example, to become role models, such as Andre Ward, are often perceived by fight fans as being “boring”, which often has a detrimental effect on the typical size of their paydays (i.e. the S.O.G.’s fight purses were nearly always far less than those paid to Carl Froch).

Therefore, please don’t take the over-the-top WWE-like personalities or press conference antics seriously. Any controversy or perceived “grudges” we witness during the built-up of fights is nearly always a performance in order to gain attention from the media and fans in order generate interest in their bout.

GGG doesn't behave that way...he is a gentleman. Yet he does all his talking in the ring....I think Wards problem is his fighting style.

There are exceptions to every rule, which is the reason why I used the word "often"... and I would cite Floyd Mayweather Jr. as my counter-argument.

GGG actually does “trash talk” (or moderately criticise) his rivals, but he doesn’t do it as severely as many other fighters do.

However, my point remains valid, because (as you say) Golovkin brings excitement inside the ring and also uses catch-phrases during interviews, which compensates for his lack of trash-talking. He still finds a way to “entertain” fight fans, which is an essential part of self-promotion.

I just wanted to emphasise my belief that the sort of people that criticise David Haye’s claims during the build-up of his fight with Tony Bellew are synonymous with the type of individuals that treat the WWE as serious as “real-life”.

[evrenb]

I take all your points. However the problem with comparing boxing to wwe is that boxing is real. Using language suggesting you are going to kill your opponent when it was perceived as a real danger to some, truly over steps the mark. There are other forms of hyperbole that do not entertain killing your opponent. He was very graphic, nasty and a totally bad role model. That is my opinion. The BBBofC too....
People who object to such over the top behaviour will be the first in line to criticize Haye.

[Enlightened-One]

I take all your points. However the problem with comparing boxing to wwe is that boxing is real. Using language suggesting you are going to kill your opponent when it was perceived as a real danger to some, truly over steps the mark. There are other forms of hyperbole that do not entertain killing your opponent. He was very graphic, nasty and a totally bad role model. That is my opinion. The BBBofC too....
People who object to such over the top behaviour will be the first in line to criticize Haye.

Didn't Mike Tyson say the following?

“I wanted to hit him in the nose one more time so that the bone could went up into his brain, I wanted it to go up into his brain. Because I always thought about that punch, I always listened to the doctors on television and ask my friends, and they say when the nose go into the brain, the consequence of him gettin’ up right away is…out of the question.”

I believe that extreme trash-talking has been considered such a fundamental aspect of professional boxing, for such a long time, that many fight fans have become desensitised.

Regardless, the BBBofC have already said that they intend to take action over David Haye’s comments, which will probably result in him paying a small fine or (worst case scenario) receiving a suspension that will be considered redundant (due to him being out-of-action anyway whilst he recovers from his injury).

Therefore, the BBBofC will inevitably sanction some sort of punishment on David Haye to address the complaints of those individuals that were somehow traumatised by his words.

[evrenb]

I don't make tysons comments alright either..??

[candyslim]

Staged? I hate to be the one to break the obvious to you, but DeMori and Gjergjaj just aren't very good.

Good enough to have taken some better acting lessons.

DeMori has also been knocked out in round one by a guy 15-19. Gjergjaj struggled against guys not in the top 500. You're better argument would be why wasn't Haye fighting better people? No need to fix fights against these people. It would be like them having to fix a fight against me. No need.

You know this kind of thing pisses me off: I'm not saying Arnold Gjergjaj was a force to be reckoned with, but he had a 29 and 0 record IIMC. I'd only watched him once against the game but limited Denis Bakhtov who took him the distance, but when I heard he was fighting Haye I was looking forward to watching it. During the fight he looked like a rabbit in the headlights and did nothing to preserve his status as a prospect, but even today Box-rec have him at 31 in the world between people like Oscar Rivas, Otto Wallin, Bogdan Dinu and Derric Rossy.

If you heard that, say, Dillian Whyte or Hughie Fury were going to facing Dinu or Rivas, would you be sneering at the low quality of opposition or would you think "Kudos to Dillian/ Hughie for facing an unbeaten and potentially dangerous prospect"?

I've noticed there is a marked tendency to discredit fighters after the event: Charles Martin is now described as "The worst champion in heavyweight history" by some fans today but until Joshua stopped him he was regarded as a very dangerous young fighter with a bright future and a portion of the world title". Thankfully boxing fans don't have just the Tyson fight to judge Michael Spinks on or young Martin might have some competition for that worst champ description.

[Tony1244]

Good enough to have taken some better acting lessons.

DeMori has also been knocked out in round one by a guy 15-19. Gjergjaj struggled against guys not in the top 500. You're better argument would be why wasn't Haye fighting better people? No need to fix fights against these people. It would be like them having to fix a fight against me. No need.

You know this kind of thing pisses me off: I'm not saying Arnold Gjergjaj was a force to be reckoned with, but he had a 29 and 0 record IIMC. I'd only watched him once against the game but limited Denis Bakhtov who took him the distance, but when I heard he was fighting Haye I was looking forward to watching it. During the fight he looked like a rabbit in the headlights and did nothing to preserve his status as a prospect, but even today Box-rec have him at 31 in the world between people like Oscar Rivas, Otto Wallin, Bogdan Dinu and Derric Rossy.

If you heard that, say, Dillian Whyte or Hughie Fury were going to facing Dinu or Rivas, would you be sneering at the low quality of opposition or would you think "Kudos to Dillian/ Hughie for facing an unbeaten and potentially dangerous prospect"?

I've noticed there is a marked tendency to discredit fighters after the event: Charles Martin is now described as "The worst champion in heavyweight history" by some fans today but until Joshua stopped him he was regarded as a very dangerous young fighter with a bright future and a portion of the world title". Thankfully boxing fans don't have just the Tyson fight to judge Michael Spinks on or young Martin might have some competition for that worst champ description.

My main point, and I did go off on a tangent is that those Haye wins were NOT fixed and were on the level. You make a good point that decent fighters are sometimes looked upon as "bums" after one loss.

[Tanzio]

DeMori has also been knocked out in round one by a guy 15-19. Gjergjaj struggled against guys not in the top 500. You're better argument would be why wasn't Haye fighting better people? No need to fix fights against these people. It would be like them having to fix a fight against me. No need.

You know this kind of thing pisses me off: I'm not saying Arnold Gjergjaj was a force to be reckoned with, but he had a 29 and 0 record IIMC. I'd only watched him once against the game but limited Denis Bakhtov who took him the distance, but when I heard he was fighting Haye I was looking forward to watching it. During the fight he looked like a rabbit in the headlights and did nothing to preserve his status as a prospect, but even today Box-rec have him at 31 in the world between people like Oscar Rivas, Otto Wallin, Bogdan Dinu and Derric Rossy.

If you heard that, say, Dillian Whyte or Hughie Fury were going to facing Dinu or Rivas, would you be sneering at the low quality of opposition or would you think "Kudos to Dillian/ Hughie for facing an unbeaten and potentially dangerous prospect"?

I've noticed there is a marked tendency to discredit fighters after the event: Charles Martin is now described as "The worst champion in heavyweight history" by some fans today but until Joshua stopped him he was regarded as a very dangerous young fighter with a bright future and a portion of the world title". Thankfully boxing fans don't have just the Tyson fight to judge Michael Spinks on or young Martin might have some competition for that worst champ description.

My main point, and I did go off on a tangent is that those Haye wins were NOT fixed and were on the level. You make a good point that decent fighters are sometimes looked upon as "bums" after one loss.

I do not think Haye is a bum. He is simply shot.

[candyslim]

I can't disagree with your main point Tony. I'd like to think the guy who first used the word "fixed" meant an easy opponent set-up for knocking down rather than there being any shenanigans with result fixing. That would be nonsense.

[Tony1244]

I can't disagree with your main point Tony. I'd like to think the guy who first used the word "fixed" meant an easy opponent set-up for knocking down rather than there being any shenanigans with result fixing. That would be nonsense.

The guy I was arguing with really wanted Haye to lose to De Mori and Gjerjgai. I have my theory as to "why," but if you read his work, you'll probably draw the same conclusion. I took the bait and insulted both those honorable journeymen, while I should have just stuck to the obvious which was these fights were NOT fixed.

[Ilya Muromets]

...
I've noticed there is a marked tendency to discredit fighters after the event: Charles Martin is now described as "The worst champion in heavyweight history" by some fans today but until Joshua stopped him he was regarded as a very dangerous young fighter with a bright future and a portion of the world title". Thankfully boxing fans don't have just the Tyson fight to judge Michael Spinks on or young Martin might have some competition for that worst champ description.

The most undeserving champion in heavyweight history. He got the belt without landing a single punch.

[candyslim]

...
I've noticed there is a marked tendency to discredit fighters after the event: Charles Martin is now described as "The worst champion in heavyweight history" by some fans today but until Joshua stopped him he was regarded as a very dangerous young fighter with a bright future and a portion of the world title". Thankfully boxing fans don't have just the Tyson fight to judge Michael Spinks on or young Martin might have some competition for that worst champ description.

The most undeserving champion in heavyweight history. He got the belt without landing a single punch.

Well I suppose it would be pedantic of me to point out that Jim Jeffries nominated a couple of his buddies to contest the title when he retired, but more to the point, the question of how deserving of a title shot someone is, was, or will be, has little bearing on his abilities as a fighter.

If you'd only seen Joe Frazier fight a string of journeymen and he was say 15 and 0 when he took on George Forman and then you watched Frazier do a passable imitation of a basketball being dribbled by the said Mr Foreman, get stopped in the second, and take a year out coming to terms with his shellacking, your opinion of Smokin' Joe, during his sabbatical, might be that he's a punchbag that'll never amount to anything. Not entirely fair I expect you would agree?

Now of course I'm not saying Martin is a great fighter but it may turn out that he ran into a monster in the making, and the result just might not look so bad in years to come. All I'm saying is cut the guy some slack. You're dissing Joshua by dissing Martin and all he did was punch the bloke's lights out which as I understand it is what he is supposed to do.

[straali]

I used to like David Haye. Back when he was a legitimate world champion at cruiser weight. He was dynamic, exciting and powerful. He moved up to heavyweight and his career there has been a mixed bag but more bad than good. A few wins over the talent equivalent of punch bags, the victory over freakish man-beast Valuev, his "public service " silencing of "Fraudley" Harrison, a decent win against a faded Ruiz and the notorious "toe gate" embarrassment after the loss to Wlad. Add to the mix some extremely distasteful antics and comments in the build ups to fights against Klitschko, Chisora ( arguably his best victory at HW) and Bellew, various injury related pull-outs (Tyson Fury, notably) all add up to a picture I'll happily see disappear from boxing, never to return, regardless of any too-little, too-late bravery shown in battling through the Achilles injury when realising he was drinking in last-chance-saloon....

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I used to like David Haye. Back when he was a legitimate world champion at cruiser weight. He was dynamic, exciting and powerful. He moved up to heavyweight and his career there has been a mixed bag but more bad than good. A few wins over the talent equivalent of punch bags, the victory over freakish man-beast Valuev, his "public service " silencing of "Fraudley" Harrison, a decent win against a faded Ruiz and the notorious "toe gate" embarrassment after the loss to Wlad. Add to the mix some extremely distasteful antics and comments in the build ups to fights against Klitschko, Chisora ( arguably his best victory at HW) and Bellew, various injury related pull-outs (Tyson Fury, notably) all add up to a picture I'll happily see disappear from boxing, never to return, regardless of any too-little, too-late bravery shown in battling through the Achilles injury when realising he was drinking in last-chance-saloon....

On the money.