Was Ali a "black supremacist"?

[montrealsuper]

If the Klitschkos were cocky and big mouthed like Ali constantly boasting about being the most beautiful and being The Greatest would they have been labeled as white supremacists?

[Noxy]

If the Klitschkos were cocky and big mouthed like Ali constantly boasting about being the most beautiful and being The Greatest would they have been labeled as white supremacists?

He certainly said some things that would be censored by the PC brigade these days, so that's a fair point

[Kalan]

Ali had a philosophical bent... He would talk on tediously for hours about the history of the world and black and white men's place in the world... then he would talk about red ants and black ants, and how birds flock with other birds of their own kind... and white people being so smart they went to the moon, and they created nuclear weapons and would destroy the world... and we were in the final days... and men and women have different roles in the world and the intelligent white man wants to be with white women and the intelligent black man wants to be with black women... A lot of what he said is nonsense -- but it was an understandable reaction to the nonsense of racial segregation and discrimination before the Civil Rights Movement.

Ali was a very nice person who respected people of every race... but you have to remember his education was extremely limited. He fell prey to the Black Muslim movement -- which was really a backlash to the racism and bigotry black people were subjected to for generations before Civil Rights Laws... People say, "What if a white person said something like that about black people?" ... Well, they DID... That's what backlashes are all about.

[tiny_acres]

Ali had a philosophical bent... He would talk on tediously for hours about the history of the world and black and white men's place in the world... then he would talk about red ants and black ants, and how birds flock with other birds of their own kind... and white people being so smart they went to the moon, and they created nuclear weapons and would destroy the world... and we were in the final days... and men and women have different roles in the world and the intelligent white man wants to be with white women and the intelligent black man wants to be with black women... A lot of what he said is nonsense -- but it was an understandable reaction to the nonsense of racial segregation and discrimination before the Civil Rights Movement.

Ali was a very nice person who respected people of every race... but you have to remember his education was extremely limited. He fell prey to the Black Muslim movement -- which was really a backlash to the racism and bigotry black people were subjected to for generations before Civil Rights Laws... People say, "What if a white person said something like that about black people?" ... Well, they DID... That's what backlashes are all about.

Kalan very good post. Probably your best post.
Nice job

[montrealsuper]

An interesting Ali quote: "I would rather be a black in America than living in a mud hut in Africa" - Ali was not a racist or a black supremacist even if he did say a few things that would be considered as such - It's human to say a few wrong or stupid things every now and then no matter how smart of a person you are - In all my years of following boxing I never heard a bad story about Ali not one -

[montrealsuper]

Well except for the way he treated Joe Frazier who was his friend but hey that was business it wasnt personal

[Kalan]

Their rivalry got very personal for Frazier. Especially when Ali had a monkey doll on a string, called it "Frazier" and started punching it. Joe didn't like Ali a whole lot. Delighted in calling him "Clay." He respected Ali as a fighter, but he got tired of the verbal abuse which was over-the-top in many cases.

When Ali was suffering from Parkinson's Frazier said, "I did that to Clay. I put that punishment on him. You know it. He knows it."

[Hannah Faulkner]

Ali had a philosophical bent... He would talk on tediously for hours about the history of the world and black and white men's place in the world... then he would talk about red ants and black ants, and how birds flock with other birds of their own kind... and white people being so smart they went to the moon, and they created nuclear weapons and would destroy the world... and we were in the final days... and men and women have different roles in the world and the intelligent white man wants to be with white women and the intelligent black man wants to be with black women... A lot of what he said is nonsense -- but it was an understandable reaction to the nonsense of racial segregation and discrimination before the Civil Rights Movement.

Ali was a very nice person who respected people of every race... but you have to remember his education was extremely limited. He fell prey to the Black Muslim movement -- which was really a backlash to the racism and bigotry black people were subjected to for generations before Civil Rights Laws... People say, "What if a white person said something like that about black people?" ... Well, they DID... That's what backlashes are all about.

You simply rocks

[Syntax Error]

Their rivalry got very personal for Frazier. Especially when Ali had a monkey doll on a string, called it "Frazier" and started punching it. Joe didn't like Ali a whole lot. Delighted in calling him "Clay." He respected Ali as a fighter, but he got tired of the verbal abuse which was over-the-top in many cases.

When Ali was suffering from Parkinson's Frazier said, "I did that to Clay. I put that punishment on him. You know it. He knows it."

I always got mixed messages from Frazier about how he truly felt about Ali.

Ironically, I recently watched on Youtube, a programme called This Is Your Life which was on UK TV in the 1970s & this one was about Muhammad Ali.

It was broadcast in 1978 & it was in London.

One of the guests was Smokin' Joe & he was flown all the way over to London to appear on a 1 hour show about Ali's life.

When Joe came through the door, Ali's face lit up like a little child on Christmas morning.

Ali really liked Frazier & Joe was very warm towards Muhammad & you could see the mutual respect between the two.

Bare in mind this was only a few short years after they last fought & when Ali was really cruel to Frazier, but Joe seemed fine with it just 3 years later, yet in later years, he professed to have this extreme hatred for Ali which is totally at odds to how he behaved with Ali not long after he finished fighting (the first time).

[Kalan]

When you're asked to appear on a "This is your life" TV program that's going to be witnessed by multitudes...and Muhammad Ali is the guest of honor??? You'd be on your best behavior. You can steal a bit of the spotlight for yourself -- and if they fly you over and give you accommodations and meals why not? Ali seemed genuinely surprised that Frazier came.

You’ve got to be thinking, “When they do my life I want everyone to show up.”

[Kalan]

It's well known that Frazier disliked Ali. He respected him and could show public affection for him because he knew Ali was idolized. But there was still an underlying bitterness that he never shook. He always managed to put the needle in if he could, such as "I did that to Clay."

As for you. You always manage to be a trolling dick. You've got your head so far up your rear end that it's no wonder you miss everything.

[Tony1244]

Maybe I drank too much last night but I'm agreeing with Kalan, golden oldie and even montreal.

Yes Kalan had a post on Ali that was right on the button. Ali did say a # of stupid, racist, and sexist things in the 1960s, but more importantly he was nice to people of all races and religions when few people were looking.

A lot of Ali's "I'm so pretty and the bear, and later Frazier is so ugly" stuff was just fun and games. He had a childlike quality to him.

The bottom line is if Ali was a racist briefly in the 1960s it was a reaction to the unfair treatment black people had, he evolved form that as he realized not all whites were bigots as he had some white friends who were very close to him.

[Tony1244]

It's well known that Frazier disliked Ali. He respected him and could show public affection for him because he knew Ali was idolized. But there was still an underlying bitterness that he never shook. He always managed to put the needle in if he could, such as "I did that to Clay."

As for you. You always manage to be a trolling dick. You've got your head so far up your rear end that it's no wonder you miss everything.

Oh you pathetic imbecile. It is not compulsory for people to appear on these shows, and plenty of folks have been approached yet because they disliked the subject of the programme they have refused.

However, Joe Frazier didn't. Hmmmmmm Fighters are not politicians, which are the kind of scum that would fly thousands of miles to embrace someone they fuking hate.

So the honeymoon is over?

[Kalan]

It's well known that Frazier disliked Ali. He respected him and could show public affection for him because he knew Ali was idolized. But there was still an underlying bitterness that he never shook. He always managed to put the needle in if he could, such as "I did that to Clay."

As for you. You always manage to be a trolling dick. You've got your head so far up your rear end that it's no wonder you miss everything.

Oh you pathetic imbecile. It is not compulsory for people to appear on these shows, and plenty of folks have been approached yet because they disliked the subject of the programme they have refused.

However, Joe Frazier didn't. Hmmmmmm Fighters are not politicians, which are the kind of scum that would fly thousands of miles to embrace someone they fuking hate.

I lot of people hate stupid creeps like oldie I imagine. Every public figure is a politician to a certain degree -- especially athletes who could potentially make millions endorsing products (Foreman anyone?). For them, ANY positive exposure is good exposure. You don't go out there publicly and wear your feelings on your sleeve like Pacquiao has done on occasion. Such stupidity can cost you millions. There’s a lot of Ali fans out there and Frazier was no fool.

[pound per pound]

Yes he was as a young adult. Ali was smitten by the Nation of Islam and some of the things he said were very racists.

After he retired Ali converted to a more moderate brach of Islam

[Ambling Alp II]

He actually left the Nation of Islam a few years before he retired. He had gradually became disillusioned with them.
Ali was in some ways intelligent. Though not a good student, he graduated from high school, which was fairly rare for a boxer. He was gullible. When he was young, he bought into the Nation of Islam hook, line and sinker.
With Ali, you always have to remember much of what he said was an act. The silly names for his opponents were meant to build up interest in their upcoming fight. Most of his opponents didn't take it seriously.

[Kalan]

stupid says "So what exactly was in it for Joe Frazier IN 1978 to cosy up to a guy you insist he hated?"

You're a liar... I never "insisted" Frazier hated Ali. I said he disliked him, but respected him. He was acting out of respect for the reasons I mentioned above. Frazier did endorsement deals and there was potential to do more. Wrap your tiny brain around that before attempting another one of your stupid posts.

[APerno]

Ali (as a Black Muslim) was a separatist; which begs two question: is a separatist a racist; does a desire for separation denote an attitude of supremacy?

[Kalan]

Ali harbored racist attitudes, but it wasn't mean spirited. He fell for a lot of ridiculous propaganda after he was recruited by the Black Muslims, but he was always polite and respectful and treated everyone like he wanted to be treated. He believed in the golden rule his mother laid down

but his brother Rahman really was a racist. He told Jose Torres, "I hate white people. I don't even smile at them." Ali smiled all the time but Rahman almost seemed sinister. He wasn't a successful Heavyweight, losing to Roy Wallace and getting flattened by Jack O'Halloran before quitting.

[Kalan]

stupid says "So what exactly was in it for Joe Frazier IN 1978 to cosy up to a guy you insist he hated?"

You're a liar... I never "insisted" Frazier hated Ali. I said he disliked him, but respected him. He was acting out of respect for the reasons I mentioned above. Frazier did endorsement deals and there was potential to do more. Wrap your tiny brain around that before attempting another one of your stupid posts.

This just gets better and better. So now you claim that even in a gullible society like America people only bought products Frazier endorsed because he went on a BRITISH television show pretending to like Ali.

Says a lot about your opinion of your own people doesn't it?

No. Your post says a lot about you... You're argumentative and stupid... That was one of dozens of opportunities Frazier took to speak to a major TV audience and help create a public persona of sorts... George Foreman didn't build his image with 1 exposure but 100's and that's the goal if you want endorsements

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You got the lyrics to the song wrong. Superman, it's black Superman.

[Kalan]

Stupid says "Interesting though to note you are now portraying Frazier as an opportunist to back up your futile fantasies"

oldie, you're as futile as a flea fart in a windstorm. Was Foreman an opportunist because he worked hard at building a positive image??? Failures try to portray successful people as "opportunists." They're the punks who fail to recognize opportunities because they're too damned lazy or stupid.