World boxing history challenge Week 8 - legends of light flyweight

[davie]

Carbajal vs Gonzalez 1

Great fight. Clearly contested by 2 top quality operators.
Carbajal looked a good boxer who got dragged into a war and looked more than comfortable to be there, slugged it out and clearly carried power
Gonzalez a tough, compact inside fighter with no shortage of skills and a nice ability to switch-hit, something I usually associate more with a slickster than a slugger.
I really liked the look of both but I had Gonzalez well ahead at the stoppage, given I know he edges the next 2, I strongly suspect the little man will emerge as my favourite at this weight class. I thought he fought a masterful fight against Chang and really enjoyed watching him here.

But no taking away from Carbajal here, what a fantastic performance to stick with him, ride out the difficult spells in the fight and drop him with a beautiful right left combo, he really hurt Gonzalez with that



***Bizarre incident at the knock down in the 2nd.
Carbajal takes his knee waiting to get up. The ref counts to 6 turns and gestures at Gonzalez to remain in the neutral corner then turns and gestures at Carbajal to get up, which he duly does and the ref wipes his gloves. Strange....

[davie]

Humberto Gonzalez vs Saman Sorjaturong

It's not often you watch a fighter get knocked out in back to back fights and come away with an improved opinion of them, but I really do like Gonzalez as a fighter.

One thing though, just sometimes, when you've been knocked on your ass...stop punching for a bit.

Really good fight again

[davie]

Humberto Gonzalez vs Michael Carbajal II

1. 9 - 10 Carbajal
2. 10 - 10 Even
3. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
4. 9 - 10 Carbajal
5. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
6. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
7. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
8. 9 - 10 Carbajal
9. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
10. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
11. 10 - 9 Gonzalez
12. 10 - 9 Gonzalez

147 - 142 Gonzalez

Decided to come back and see these 2 again after talking about Ricardo Lopez. I hadn't watched the second and third fights and wanted to see how these 2 might match up with Finito had he stepped up in the early 90's

Another good fight. Really struggled to get going in the first couple as Gonzalez came out tentative and cautious but I think the cut might have spurred him on. He fought like a man possessed from there on in. Throwing shots in 4, 5 & 6 punch combinations he put Carbajal on the back foot. Carbajal looked by far the more solid puncher and landed clean with single shots on a few occasions. But still lost those rounds to Gonzalez consistent pressure.


Regards the Lopez question. He was a match for Carbajal in terms of size and they would have been a similar style of fighter, so it would have been interesting to see how they approached it tactically. I'd favour Lopez on what I've seen, not sure it would be winning any fight of the year awards.

I'd have loved to have seen Gonzalez vs Lopez though, I suspect it would have played out the way these fights have and I'd be interested to see who would win the clash of styles between those 2?

[davie]

I thought the 1st Gonzalez/Carbajal fight was the best, the rematch was great too, the 3rd fight was pretty crap IMO

Well you called that well. The third really struggled to get going

Carbajal vs Gonzalez III

1. 10 - 9 Carbajal
2. 10 - 10 Even
3. 10 - 10 Even
4. 10 - 9 Carbajal
5. 9 - 10 Gonzalez
6. 10 - 9 Carbajal
7. 9 - 10 Gonzalez
8. 10 - 9 Carbajal
9. 10 - 10 Even
10. 9 - 10 Gonzalez
11. 9 - 10 Gonzalez
12. 9 - 10 Gonzalez

115-116 Gonzalez

The first 5 or 6 rounds could have been scored even, very close cagey rounds, I scored 1 & 4 for Carbajal for coming forward and could have made a similar argument in 2 & 3, which might have swung it. But he never won the rounds, as such just shaded them through a slightly better effort, while Gonzalez stuck to his gameplan of being cautious early
From the mid point of Gonzalez was the better fighter, stepping up but not the way he did in the second fight. Carbajal did seem to coast in the last 3 but I felt if Gonzalez had really wanted to push the tempo and start letting the multiple punch combinations go he could have ran away with it again

These for me were the 5 best 108lbs fighters ever in no particular order:
Jung Koo Chang
Hilario Zapata
Michael Carbajal
Myung Woo Yuh
Yoko Gushiken

I'd really struggle to make that list without Gonzalez on there, I've now watched 4 of those 5 fighters and feel that Gonzalez is at least on par with them. Taking into account he really is tiny at 5'1" and giving up between 2-4" on all of them, he certainly makes my top 5...... In fact I'm struggling not to make him my no1 at 108lbs

[Andrew]

Watched Carbajal v Gonzalez 1 for the first time over the weekend.

Amazing fight

[davie]

Watched Carbajal v Gonzalez 1 for the first time over the weekend.

Amazing fight

Went away after this thread and watched more Chang, Zapata and Carbajal and I'd seen a bit of Gushiken. Just got to see some Myung Woo Yuh

But for me, Chiquita Gonzalez is the boy at this weight.

[Counter-puncher]

Watched Carbajal v Gonzalez 1 for the first time over the weekend.

Amazing fight

Went away after this thread and watched more Chang, Zapata and Carbajal and I'd seen a bit of Gushiken. Just got to see some Myung Woo Yuh

But for me, Chiquita Gonzalez is the boy at this weight.

If you search the forum for comments on Yuh there's a thread on him somewhere I think

[davie]

Watched Carbajal v Gonzalez 1 for the first time over the weekend.

Amazing fight

Went away after this thread and watched more Chang, Zapata and Carbajal and I'd seen a bit of Gushiken. Just got to see some Myung Woo Yuh

But for me, Chiquita Gonzalez is the boy at this weight.

If you search the forum for comments on Yuh there's a thread on him somewhere I think

Better than the other names mentioned?
Better than my man Chiquita?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Much better chin than your boy, not as much power. Ridiculous stamina.

[davie]

Much better chin than your boy, not as much power. Ridiculous stamina.

Not really an answer, but it'll do

I'll watch for myself and see what I think

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Much better chin than your boy, not as much power. Ridiculous stamina.

Not really an answer, but it'll do

I'll watch for myself and see what I think

I'm not sure what kind of answer you were looking for? This isn't a division with a definitive answer for the greatest, highly subjective. I simply gave you the obvious differences to your specific question. Judging for yourself is always best.

[Counter-puncher]

Saads answer was a good succinct one. Yuh was a Brian Mitchell-type cardio machine who just continually found ways to outwork his opponents, not a strong looking fighter even for the Lower weights but an ironman all the same and very tactically adaptable.

Gonzalez and Chang both have better resumes in my opinion and both did better than Yuh on the eye-test at their best.

[Counter-puncher]

And ridiculous stamina is a good way to put it it. If I were asked to name the most conspicuous cardio machines, Yuh (and Mitchell) would be among the first names I'd mention along with Calzaghe.

[davie]

Much better chin than your boy, not as much power. Ridiculous stamina.

Not really an answer, but it'll do

I'll watch for myself and see what I think

I'm not sure what kind of answer you were looking for? This isn't a division with a definitive answer for the greatest, highly subjective. I simply gave you the obvious differences to your specific question. Judging for yourself is always best.

I know, I was only kiddin chief. I asked a question that required a yes/no response, when there is not always a clear yes/no answer.

I'll have a wee watch and come back and give you Davie's definitive top 5 though and that'll be it settled once and for all

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd have to dig into the resumes to rank them. On memory I'd say Chang #1. Eye test for me is Yoko.