How is Golovkin is an ATG having never fought one

[world ranked]

How can someone consider an ATG fighter like some people believe Golovkin is without facing another ATG? Also is the another ATG who never fought another ATG.

Golovkin isn’t an all-time-great fighter yet, even though he may have the potential to do so, he needs to achieve something truly special inside the ring to prevent his legacy from diminishing to the point of obscurity decades after his retirement, where his name will only be remembered by a select few hard-core fight fans.

Some points to consider:
• His popularity hasn’t crossed over to the mainstream.
• He hasn’t been engaged in a rivalry where his bouts were deemed so exciting that they captured the public imagination.
• In terms of historical contribution to the sport, he hasn’t done anything remarkable that will never be forgotten.
• Since 2008, whether it’s his fault or not, he hasn’t faced the very best 160lb-ers the division has to offer.
• Despite claiming that no fighter between 154lbs to 175lbs can beat him, he hasn’t competed in other weight classes.
• Even if he breaks Hopkins’ 20 middleweight title defences record, it’ll be diminished greatly by the poor quality contenders he faced, coupled with the fact that he was a long-time holder of a junior belt, at a time where there were more senior titleholders.
• GGG has never had to overcome adversity inside the ring and he has only ever engaged in one truly evenly-contested contest.

To be honest, GGG is a fantastic fighter, but his talents are only appreciated by hard-core fight fans, but whether it’s his fault or not, he hasn’t done anything remarkable inside or outside the ring. And please bear in mind, the bar for “all-time-greatness” has to be set really high.

Gennady might even be technically better than several Hall-of-Famers, but we can’t bestow “all-time-greatness” based on theories, where there is a distinct lack of real-world evidence to backup this claim.

Golovkin is simply a very highly-skilled fighter with a fantastic chin and good punching power, but he hasn’t been given the opportunity to achieve genuine “ all-time greatness”, which is a shame, because the potential might be there, but so-far, it’s unfulfilled.

Well said

[world ranked]

He is definitely a top 10 MW of all times.

Do you rank him higher than Martinez?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He is definitely a top 10 MW of all times.

He's definitely top 50.

[victor-romeo]

Who really considers Golovkin an ATG right now? If he's an ATG then so are Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor.

Marvin Hagler way better than GGG in my opinion..

[boxing_rocks]

He is definitely a top 10 MW of all times.

Do you rank him higher than Martinez?

Yes.

[world ranked]

He is definitely a top 10 MW of all times.

Do you rank him higher than Martinez?

Yes.

So you based things on what you think will happened as oppose to what there resume actually was. To me again GGG would win in a fight against Sergio but Sergio should be considered a better middleweight because his run was better.

[boxing_rocks]

Do you rank him higher than Martinez?

Yes.

So you based things on what you think will happened as oppose to what there resume actually was. To me again GGG would win in a fight against Sergio but Sergio should be considered a better middleweight because his run was better.

Even Sergio's run is overrated. Beside Williams and Pavlik, he got not so much.

[boxing_rocks]

Interestingly enough, they are comparing Sergio and Gennady on twitter right now:

Steve Kim‏ @steveucnlive 2h2 hours ago
More
Cant compare Golovkin situation to Sergio Martinez. GGG much better promoted, worth a lot more and a better, more dangerous fighter #boxing

[pound per pound]

How can someone consider an ATG fighter like some people believe Golovkin is without facing another ATG? Also is the another ATG who never fought another ATG.

Fighters duck him. Chicken Canelo, this means you. He's got many title defenses ( will break Hopkins record ) and is brilliant on video.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Kim is the literal epitome of an adult nerd living in his mom's basement.

[world ranked]

How can someone consider an ATG fighter like some people believe Golovkin is without facing another ATG? Also is the another ATG who never fought another ATG.

Fighters duck him. Chicken Canelo, this means you. He's got many title defenses ( will break Hopkins record ) and is brilliant on video.

Omar Narvaez had defenses too

[boxing_rocks]

Kim is the literal epitome of an adult nerd living in his mom's basement.

... and nerds know stuff they are interested in very well.

[crusader]

Yes.

So you based things on what you think will happened as oppose to what there resume actually was. To me again GGG would win in a fight against Sergio but Sergio should be considered a better middleweight because his run was better.

Even Sergio's run is overrated. Beside Williams and Pavlik, he got not so much.

And what was the best thing Williams did above 147 aside from beat Sergio? He got a gift against Lara, and the Cintron decision couldve easily gone against him too (Cintron actually landed the best shot of the fight right before he flew out of the ring).

[world ranked]

So you based things on what you think will happened as oppose to what there resume actually was. To me again GGG would win in a fight against Sergio but Sergio should be considered a better middleweight because his run was better.

Even Sergio's run is overrated. Beside Williams and Pavlik, he got not so much.

And what was the best thing Williams did above 147 aside from beat Sergio?

WIlliams is to Martinez what Kell Brook is to GGG. There resume isn't much different. But people tend to GGG is that much better I'm about the resume not what I THINK would happened but what ACTUALLY happened.

[world ranked]

So you based things on what you think will happened as oppose to what there resume actually was. To me again GGG would win in a fight against Sergio but Sergio should be considered a better middleweight because his run was better.

Even Sergio's run is overrated. Beside Williams and Pavlik, he got not so much.

And what was the best thing Williams did above 147 aside from beat Sergio? He got a gift against Lara, and the Cintron decision couldve easily gone against him too (Cintron actually landed the best shot of the fight right before he flew out of the ring).

CINTRON LOSS that fight and it wasn't close the judges was on the take. Don't make up facts now.

[crusader]

Cintron officially lost a split decision, and I never said otherwise. Williams was pitter-patting as usual and getting hit regularly by clean shots, so it wouldnt have been a robbery if the decision went the other way. Watch the last round again, and youll see Williams get slightly rocked by a clean right hand that was better than any shot he landed himself.

The Lara fight was one of the biggest robberies in years, and despite the result Lara did a better job on PW than Quintana did in their first meeting. Williams looked extremely sloppy, and even guys like Vanes and Angulo did better against Lara than he did.

We can critique GGG's opponents too, but I dont think any of them are frequently being presented as elite fighters who really make a MW resume stand out, whereas it seems to me like the Williams win is often regarded as a top-tier result which helps put Martinez's resume at another level.

If we treat Williams as another Brook, is there really much difference between GGG and Martinez's accomplishments?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Pavlik refused to fight Williams, with good reason. Even though I'm glad the judges didn't reward cintron jumping out of the ring for no reason, Kermit easily could have had his hand raised from that stretcher. I remember writing that it was almost a perfectly timed jump.

[Ossyrules]

Too much in the thread to catch up on. But golovkin is another another level to Martinez. Martinez is a really good fighter but in terms of their middleweight legend, GGG is clearly above I don't see how this is disputed

[world ranked]

Cintron officially lost a split decision, and I never said otherwise. Williams was pitter-patting as usual and getting hit regularly by clean shots, so it wouldnt have been a robbery if the decision went the other way. Watch the last round again, and youll see Williams get slightly rocked by a clean right hand that was better than any shot he landed himself.

The Lara fight was one of the biggest robberies in years, and despite the result Lara did a better job on PW than Quintana did in their first meeting. Williams looked extremely sloppy, and even guys like Vanes and Angulo did better against Lara than he did.

We can critique GGG's opponents too, but I dont think any of them are frequently being presented as elite fighters who really make a MW resume stand out, whereas it seems to me like the Williams win is often regarded as a top-tier result which helps put Martinez's resume at another level.

If we treat Williams as another Brook, is there really much difference between GGG and Martinez's accomplishments?

You said the CIntron could have went either way. That's just not true. Martinez dominated that fight and deserved a KO that was taking back because Cintron complained about a bogus head clash. I agree that there's not much difference in the resume is my point and people just GGG is better on opinion and not resume.

[world ranked]

Too much in the thread to catch up on. But golovkin is another another level to Martinez. Martinez is a really good fighter but in terms of their middleweight legend, GGG is clearly above I don't see how this is disputed

He wasn't even a whole another level higher than Jacobs but somehow so much better than Martinez. He did beat Jacobs but far from a different level.

[Ossyrules]

Too much in the thread to catch up on. But golovkin is another another level to Martinez. Martinez is a really good fighter but in terms of their middleweight legend, GGG is clearly above I don't see how this is disputed

He wasn't even a whole another level higher than Jacobs but somehow so much better than Martinez. He did beat Jacobs but far from a different level.

I'm not saying 1 is world level the other is a club fighter. But 1, as a middleweight, is the dominant undisputed 160er of his era, p4p ranked, knocking on the door for various records re ko %, defences etc. The other had a short 160 run at the end of his career, had some really good wins.

If you want to gauge level, 1 battered Martin Murray, a tough fringe title contender, from pillar to post, the other just squeezed over the line.

I write this with no disrespect to Martinez at all btw

[world ranked]

Too much in the thread to catch up on. But golovkin is another another level to Martinez. Martinez is a really good fighter but in terms of their middleweight legend, GGG is clearly above I don't see how this is disputed

He wasn't even a whole another level higher than Jacobs but somehow so much better than Martinez. He did beat Jacobs but far from a different level.

I'm not saying 1 is world level the other is a club fighter. But 1, as a middleweight, is the dominant undisputed 160er of his era, p4p ranked, knocking on the door for various records re ko %, defences etc. The other had a short 160 run at the end of his career, had some really good wins.

If you want to gauge level, 1 battered Martin Murray, a tough fringe title contender, from pillar to post, the other just squeezed over the line.

I write this with no disrespect to Martinez at all btw

Martinez was the undisputed and lineal champ. GGG isn't neither at least brings facts to the argument. I agree he beat Murray better again I'm not disputing GGG would beat Martinez but Sergio was just as good in terms of names than GGG and thus fought better guys and as of right now should ne considered at least equal to GGG run. GGG middleweight isn't dominate. He hasn't beat dominated the top of division. Its not a dominate rum through the division but has looked dominated in a lot of fights. He didn't run through Jacobs.

[Ossyrules]

He wasn't even a whole another level higher than Jacobs but somehow so much better than Martinez. He did beat Jacobs but far from a different level.

I'm not saying 1 is world level the other is a club fighter. But 1, as a middleweight, is the dominant undisputed 160er of his era, p4p ranked, knocking on the door for various records re ko %, defences etc. The other had a short 160 run at the end of his career, had some really good wins.

If you want to gauge level, 1 battered Martin Murray, a tough fringe title contender, from pillar to post, the other just squeezed over the line.

I write this with no disrespect to Martinez at all btw

Martinez was the undisputed and lineal champ. GGG isn't neither at least brings facts to the argument. I agree he beat Murray better again I'm not disputing GGG would beat Martinez but Sergio was just as good in terms of names than GGG and thus fought better guys and as of right now should ne considered at least equal to GGG run. GGG middleweight isn't dominate. He hasn't beat dominated the top of division. Its not a dominate rum through the division but has looked dominated in a lot of fights. He didn't run through Jacobs.

I've come into this thread a bit late my argument referring to levels, if they fought, ggg would be a higher level middleweight and beat Martinez.

If you're not questioning that and just debating whose beat better names then I guess the Pavlik win is about as good as what ggg has beat right now.

As for ggg not being dominant, he's got the WBA super, IBF and WBC. He's come through a very tough fight can Jacobs that weren't a dominant win. He's basically missing the wbo to complete the set, but Saunders isn't exactly keeping that belt active now is he. After that other than canelo and Eubank jnr I don't see what more he can do at 160

[SaadOffTheDeck]

As for being lineal/undisputed, Sergio had vastly better circumstances​ there than ggg did. The champion in golovkins time(Martinez) wanted nothing to do with him.

[world ranked]

As for being lineal/undisputed, Sergio had vastly better circumstances​ there than ggg did. The champion in golovkins time(Martinez) wanted nothing to do with him.

Nag Sergio just excepted being the B-side and doing what he had to do to. If it means fighting with leg to fight Cotto we so be it neither here nor there. I agree Martinez didn't wont nothing to do with Golovkin neither did Cotto, Sturm, Canelo. I get all that but a close fight with Jacobs has to say something to the fact he's not as dominated against higher level guys then some tend to think.