Suppose Teofilo Stevenson would have turned pro

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 Mar 2006, 18:29

Would would this have done to the heavyweight division in the 1970s/early 1980s?
P

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 17 Mar 2006, 22:05

He would have added another nice name to Ali's collection of famous boxers vanquished.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Mar 2006, 11:29

BoxBuzz wrote:He would have added another nice name to Ali's collection of famous boxers vanquished.

He would have peaked after Ali's reign.

barry · Post by **barry** » 18 Mar 2006, 12:15

He may have ended up as a top contender, but not a certainty that he would. Jorge Luis Gonzalez was a highly praised amateur, yet he was not much as a pro. Same can be said of many great amateurs.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 18 Mar 2006, 12:19

Taking nothing away from Stevenson but a lot of his most famous victories had a little of a 'man against boy' feel about them such as against Tate, Dokes and Biggs etc.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Mar 2006, 12:20

He may have ended up as a top contender, but not a certainty that he would. Jorge Luis Gonzalez was a highly praised amateur, yet he was not much as a pro. Same can be said of many great amateurs.

Yup. Cuban amateurs sometime look better than they really are because for the most parts their seasoned pros fighting against young men. Thats why Gonzalez was able to handle Bowe and Lewis(?) in the amateurs but wasnt half the fighter they were in the pro's.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 18 Mar 2006, 12:22

Some more opinions on Stevenson in a 'professional' fight here.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34487

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 18 Mar 2006, 14:19

KoJo....Holmes would have been a better choice for me. However theoretically Ali and Stevenson could have crossed paths but it would have been a very young Stevenson if you place the bout in Ali's effective years.

Is my math right on this KoJo? I'm working from memory here.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 18 Mar 2006, 15:40

barry wrote: Jorge Luis Gonzalez was a highly praised amateur, yet he was not much as a pro. Same can be said of many great amateurs.

Gonzalez was like 30 years old when he turned pro and semi-retired. Stevenson certainly would have been a top heavyweight. Maybe even good enough to beat an old Ali or a prime Holmes.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 18 Mar 2006, 19:14

Stevenson had the height, reach and skills, as well as speed, to have been a great Heavweight. I remember reading an article once that Stevenson was offered so much money to face Muhammad Ali in his professional debut, or something, but it never materialised.

As far as his competition, Stevenson lost in the amateurs to guys like DUANE BOBICK (who turned out to be a white hope). But you can't really judge a book by it's cover.

Three gold medals is hard to beat, even though I do think the record has been surpassed at Heavyweight. Stevenson could have been a great pro, but thinking on it---he could have ended up like Pete Rademacher, get moved up too soon and turn into a big joke.

WOuld have been nice though, but I think even Ali himself was quoted as saying that if he and Stevenson ever fought (which Ali would never say another man could beat him) that the Cuban would probably draw him over fifteen rounds.

So who knows, coming from Ali that is a big statement to make.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Mar 2006, 21:49

KOJOE90 wrote:Some more opinions on Stevenson in a 'professional' fight here.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34487

Thanks. Even though I believe Stevenson-Holmes is more like it. With Stevenson, Holmes may have had the great adversary that he was lacking in his career.

All the points about "man against boy" are of course true, but Stevenson was so dominant in the mid and late 1970s that he may have had a better chance to be big in professinal boxing than most Cubans.

P

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 20 Mar 2006, 11:40

Stevenson would have done very well as a pro, but not as good as his amateur career suggests.Many of the guys he beat in the amateurs, may have taken him as a pro.

tagjohnson · Post by **tagjohnson** » 20 Mar 2006, 19:53

The biggest problem with extrapolating (I think I spelled that right) amatuers to the pros is the question of endurance. Also with Stevenson it, as has been pointed out, he had far more experience than the American amatuers that he faced. Plus we really can't say anything about his chin one way or another. Factoring those out I still really can't see Stevenson winning the title during the time he would have physically been at prime, that is the seventies. Although he was awesome physically he was frankly slow on his feet and not particularly quick with his hands and would have looked like he was in slow-motion against even the 70's Ali. Foreman would have been able to get to him. Frazier the same. I can see several of the top contenders of the time beating him. Lyle and Shavers definitely. I just don't think he was quick enough or good enough defensively to keep them away. Jimmy Young and Jerry Quarry quite frankly would have embarrassed him. He beats Norton and Jimmy Ellis.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:09

Tag,
I was following what you were saying until the end. Why do you think Stevenson would beat Norton and Ellis?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:09

Tag,
I was following what you were saying until the end. Why do you think Stevenson would beat Norton and Ellis?

barry · Post by **barry** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:49

Just because a fighter was very, very dominate as an amateur, it most certainly does not mean that they will even win a regional title as a pro, or even be successful. There are so many instances where an absolutely great amateur never panned out in the pro ranks.

One name that comes to my mind was Clint Jackson. He was absolutely dominant in the amateurs beating not only the best American amateurs, but beating the best Cubans and best Russians as well, when Russia was such a dominant powerhouse in amateur sports.

Assuming Stevenson would have been successful has no basis of proof to go on...and to suggest that he would have been the big name Holmes needed again has no proof to suggest even moderate success. If I remember correctly, Stevenson did not have a great chin to begin with even in the amateur ranks...professional heavyweights would have exploited that very quickly and once it was exposed, well Jorge Luis Gonzalez immediately comes to mind.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:52

barry wrote: Assuming Stevenson would have been successful has no basis of proof to go on...and to suggest that he would have been the big name Holmes needed again has no proof to suggest even moderate success. If I remember correctly, Stevenson did not have a great chin to begin with even in the amateur ranks...professional heavyweights would have exploited that very quickly and once it was exposed, well Jorge Luis Gonzalez immediately comes to mind.

Of course it has no basis of proof - how can it. It's pure speculation. Interesting speculation though.

P

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:11

Interesting specualtion...maybe if it hadn't already been mentioned and talked about dozens and dozens of times before.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:22

barry wrote:Interesting specualtion...maybe if it hadn't already been mentioned and talked about dozens and dozens of times before.

Feel free not to participate in the discussion if it doesn't interest you.

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:25

I offer the same advice to you!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:29

barry wrote:I offer the same advice to you!

Thanks for the thoughtful advice, but I am an interested on how Teofilo would have done as a pro...

Cheers, P

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:32

Like I said, there is absolutely no way to determine such, which I figured you would have got the first time I said it!

Look, you can't pick who you want to respond to your threads...if you want that then start up your own forum, then you can talk about whatever you like, with whoever you like, but this is a public forum...so get over it!

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:59

PUNDIT---Why do you even bother coming to this forum? Whenever your act up and your feeling get hurt you just run over to the current scene forum and start crying there.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41344

HAAHAHAAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAHAAAH.

It looks like you would have really learned by now that no one gives shit about what you think, or do!

You have been doing this routine for a year now...always running and crying to the current scene forum whenever I shove your shit back down your throat and what have you ever accomplished other than showing people what a true crybaby you really are? Go ahead...start all the whiny-ass threads you like over there, but remember, I'm not the only one laughiung at your whiny ass!

What did I say in an earlier post...if I started ripping you a new one in a couple of days you would just be whining and crying that I started it...damn, didn't take you long to go into your little girl mode did it!

I think I'll start calling you the "Little Bitch Who Thought She Could!"

tagjohnson · Post by **tagjohnson** » 21 Mar 2006, 16:33

I think if Stevenson had turned pro, and assuming he had a reasonable chin and endurance (big assumptions, but ones that have to be made if we are to speculate on the subject at hand) that he would have beaten Norton for the simple reason Ken (and I was a Norton fan) got blasted out of the ring by every big puncher he fought. And Teofilo could definitely punch. Ellis (who I liked) I don't think could handle the size difference.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Mar 2006, 18:13

tagjohnson wrote:I think if Stevenson had turned pro, and assuming he had a reasonable chin and endurance (big assumptions, but ones that have to be made if we are to speculate on the subject at hand) that he would have beaten Norton for the simple reason Ken (and I was a Norton fan) got blasted out of the ring by every big puncher he fought. And Teofilo could definitely punch. Ellis (who I liked) I don't think could handle the size difference.

With all your IF-assumptions, why shouldn't Stevenson have been competitive with Holmes?

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