Hagler vs Leonard - 30 years on....

[bigjack]

I remember the ITV preview show used the Europe song The Final Countdown and to this day when I hear it I think - Hagler and Leonard and smile

Me too,i heard the result while watching some daytime tv show,it was Tony Wilson who owned the Hacienda night club that let it slip,can't remember the show but he presented it.

[PredatorHayds]

Just checked my scorecards for some of the fights discussed.
I also had SRL winning.

I had Dirrell beating Froch.

I also had Hopkins edging Calzaghe

I thought Khan clearly beat Peterson. I'm in record as saying that's the best I've ever seen Khan box. His handspeed was always on another level but in this fight he produces his best ever footwork against a on-song under-rated Peterson.

[Syntax Error]

This 12/15 round thing needs to be put to bed.

As Hagler had been stripped of his WBA & IBF titles, this fight was for the WBC belt.

The WBC had long since stopped having 15 round fights, so unless this fight was not going to be for a trinket (something I don't Leonard would have wanted) & just for the 'linear' title, it could never have been for 15 rounds.

I also find Hugh McIlvanney's assertion that anyone who scored it for Leonard was not objective & was dazzled by fact that he was achieving so much more than most thought he could.

Total hogwash IMO.

McIlvanney is just one of those people that thinks his opinion is a fact & try to browbeat those that have differing opinions.

I scored the fight for Leonard, but it was extremely close & I can understand why some folk would have scored it for Hagler, or maybe even a draw.

[Autobarn]

Some strange posts. As if there's not even any need for discussion regarding the scores in favour of Dirrell beating Froch and Hopkins beating Calzaghe. Adding "context" - or rhetoric - to try and cut off any further debate.

My view is the British put in the work and the Yanks tried too hard to look slick rather than actually producing something. In particular Froch was holding ring centre and working his jab in Dirrell which few seem to remark on. I really don't like Dirrell, when cornered, running around the corners or throwing himself to the floor. Really think Dirrell should've been deducted but I had Froch winning a horrible and awkward fight anyway. Graham Houston also had Froch winning.

Also have Calzaghe beating Hopkins but it was truly a terrible fight. My feeling is Calzaghe was badly prepared without a realistic strategy and had to make something up in the spot. He did take the cleanest shots but his work appeared a bit much for Bernard, and Joe was touching him all night.

Sometimes you have to win ugly and I have both as 7-5 ish decisions.

[samwbr]

Hacker beat Leonard. Froch beat Dirrell. It was a close fight but Dirrell was so negative and basically ran and spoiled for 12 rounds, not the display of a man coming to win the world title.

[Autobarn]

This 12/15 round thing needs to be put to bed.

As Hagler had been stripped of his WBA & IBF titles, this fight was for the WBC belt.

The WBC had long since stopped having 15 round fights, so unless this fight was not going to be for a trinket (something I don't Leonard would have wanted) & just for the 'linear' title, it could never have been for 15 rounds.

I also find Hugh McIlvanney's assertion that anyone who scored it for Leonard was not objective & was dazzled by fact that he was achieving so much more than most thought he could.

Total hogwash IMO.

McIlvanney is just one of those people that thinks his opinion is a fact & try to browbeat those that have differing opinions.

I scored the fight for Leonard, but it was extremely close & I can understand why some folk would have scored it for Hagler, or maybe even a draw.

Yeah McIlvanney also couldn't make a case for Benn beating Eubank in their controversial 12 round draw.

Never really enjoyed reading the man and am surprised his book, basically of his fight reports, is so highly esteemed

I always had Leonard beating Halger. Hagler did some thing really weird, over the first six or seven, standing off like he didn't think Leonard was taking the rounds. He was far too casual in such an important fight. When he'd already felt he'd been robbed in the first Antiofermo fight. Hagler really did close strong and I'd have thought if it was a 15-rounder he would've been too much in the championship rounds. But he needed to fightlike he was in a 12-rounder. Which he didn't, due to early frustration and or lack of urgency.

[magwitch]

Khan vs Peterson doesn't get talked about loads but I think Khan got screwed that fight

Good call,

Yes Khan's been in a few.... vs Barrera and the rediculous referring to wait till the 5th round to stop it (when the cut stayed the same). Also the Limond fight with the long count.

Yeah that stunk for poor Barrera. A legend like that deserves a boxing match to be handled with more respect.

I was at that fight and mark my words, Mr Barrera was never troubled. Not saying I know what would have happened, but Khan had done nothing that hurt him, despite a few eye-catching flurries.


Also that night - Nicky Cook got bombed out early to the body by a South American, Maccarinelli.....well he got knocked out, dramatically! And Matthew Hall dropped Bradley Pryce a few times.

[bigjack]

Good call,

Yes Khan's been in a few.... vs Barrera and the rediculous referring to wait till the 5th round to stop it (when the cut stayed the same). Also the Limond fight with the long count.

Yeah that stunk for poor Barrera. A legend like that deserves a boxing match to be handled with more respect.

I was at that fight and mark my words, Mr Barrera was never troubled. Not saying I know what would have happened, but Khan had done nothing that hurt him, despite a few eye-catching flurries.


Also that night - Nicky Cook got bombed out early to the body by a South American, Maccarinelli.....well he got knocked out, dramatically! And Matthew Hall dropped Bradley Pryce a few times.

Me too,Barrera got the majority of the cheers on the ring walks.

[Ossyrules]

Yeah that stunk for poor Barrera. A legend like that deserves a boxing match to be handled with more respect.

I was at that fight and mark my words, Mr Barrera was never troubled. Not saying I know what would have happened, but Khan had done nothing that hurt him, despite a few eye-catching flurries.


Also that night - Nicky Cook got bombed out early to the body by a South American, Maccarinelli.....well he got knocked out, dramatically! And Matthew Hall dropped Bradley Pryce a few times.

Me too,Barrera got the majority of the cheers on the ring walks.

The pertinent point for me was the cut happened in round 1? (Correct me if it was 2 but it was early). It was nasty cut, and as soon as it gets to the 5th (long enough for a fight to be stopped and the decision stands as a stoppage in cuts instead of a no contest) it gets stopped. That's suspicious imo

[bigjack]

I was at that fight and mark my words, Mr Barrera was never troubled. Not saying I know what would have happened, but Khan had done nothing that hurt him, despite a few eye-catching flurries.


Also that night - Nicky Cook got bombed out early to the body by a South American, Maccarinelli.....well he got knocked out, dramatically! And Matthew Hall dropped Bradley Pryce a few times.

Me too,Barrera got the majority of the cheers on the ring walks.

The pertinent point for me was the cut happened in round 1? (Correct me if it was 2 but it was early). It was nasty cut, and as soon as it gets to the 5th (long enough for a fight to be stopped and the decision stands as a stoppage in cuts instead of a no contest) it gets stopped. That's suspicious imo

Absolutely,it didn't get any worse but khan was ahead,although Barrera was coming into it,bad decision.

[magwitch]

I was at that fight and mark my words, Mr Barrera was never troubled. Not saying I know what would have happened, but Khan had done nothing that hurt him, despite a few eye-catching flurries.


Also that night - Nicky Cook got bombed out early to the body by a South American, Maccarinelli.....well he got knocked out, dramatically! And Matthew Hall dropped Bradley Pryce a few times.

Me too,Barrera got the majority of the cheers on the ring walks.

The pertinent point for me was the cut happened in round 1? (Correct me if it was 2 but it was early). It was nasty cut, and as soon as it gets to the 5th (long enough for a fight to be stopped and the decision stands as a stoppage in cuts instead of a no contest) it gets stopped. That's suspicious imo

I can’t say if it was round 1 mate. I know it wasn’t 4. He was plugging away with it for a bit.
Noone here is disputing what you are saying, certainly not me.
What can you expect? Home things happen for home fighters......and Barrera will have known that as well as anyone.

[Ossyrules]

Me too,Barrera got the majority of the cheers on the ring walks.

The pertinent point for me was the cut happened in round 1? (Correct me if it was 2 but it was early). It was nasty cut, and as soon as it gets to the 5th (long enough for a fight to be stopped and the decision stands as a stoppage in cuts instead of a no contest) it gets stopped. That's suspicious imo

I can’t say if it was round 1 mate. I know it wasn’t 4. He was plugging away with it for a bit.
Noone here is disputing what you are saying, certainly not me.
What can you expect? Home things happen for home fighters......and Barrera will have known that as well as anyone.

You're right, and it'd be naive to think otherwise, especially with so much money in play and various people (promoters, networks etc) with their fingers in the pot. But as a fan all you can hope for is fairness I guess. There will be the odd point to sway the home fighter to make home advantage something, but nothing so far to get people thinking of some home cooking. Germany has a bad repuatation for judges and refs being real homers, I wouldn't like people to think that of England. The Khan Barrera situation smelt a little bit too much for me

[magwitch]

Yeah that stunk for poor Barrera. A legend like that deserves a boxing match to be handled with more respect.

I was at that fight and mark my words, Mr Barrera was never troubled. Not saying I know what would have happened, but Khan had done nothing that hurt him, despite a few eye-catching flurries.


Also that night - Nicky Cook got bombed out early to the body by a South American, Maccarinelli.....well he got knocked out, dramatically! And Matthew Hall dropped Bradley Pryce a few times.

Me too,Barrera got the majority of the cheers on the ring walks.

Of course he did. People say Tyson has a following here.....didn’t he box Francis in Manchester? But Barrera is pretty much in boxing terms what the Queen is in the royal family.
Khan received a great reception and Barrera received a hero’s welcome too. Both fighters were well received, for different reasons.

I travelled to it the day before, 2 hours by train, hoping to get Barrera to sign my shirt and just say welcome to the UK. Had a brand new marker pen, the lot!.....and I am not a celebrity botherer of any kind.
At the last minute the weigh-in got moved and Corn Exchange man erroneously told me the weigh-in had been moved to a hotel, all private.
Turns out it had moved.....across the road and down an escalator, but not knowing that I went to a pub, then 2hrs home on the train, then back the next day.
To me, it was a special event Marco Antonio Barrera boxing on British soil.

[thepocketrocket]

I remember Khan saying the atmosphere was racist during the Barrera fight. That was funny, as I saw or heard no racist comments. What i did see was a load of sombrero's as MAB was and is a legend.

[bigjack]

I remember Khan saying the atmosphere was racist during the Barrera fight. That was funny, as I saw or heard no racist comments. What i did see was a load of sombrero's as MAB was and is a legend.

It wasn't racist at all,don't know why he said that.

[Andrew]

I also had Porter beating Brook 115-113 both times I watched it.

Just before the golden boy exodus to Haymon.

[Anzi]

I remember Khan saying the atmosphere was racist during the Barrera fight. That was funny, as I saw or heard no racist comments. What i did see was a load of sombrero's as MAB was and is a legend.

Yeh right lol.

[Anzi]

I remember Khan saying the atmosphere was racist during the Barrera fight. That was funny, as I saw or heard no racist comments. What i did see was a load of sombrero's as MAB was and is a legend.

It wasn't racist at all,don't know why he said that.

How do you know ? I was at the Khan, Prescott fight and some racist hooligans, shouting racist crap, afterwards 2 muslim girls were abused by 2 punks, we jumped out the car and corrected them and was once at a Khan show were a massive gang of racists started shouting "where the pakis at", to which some of the pakistani's reacted, Khan has a lot of fans in britain but also has people who hate, some because of his Pakistani origin, some because of his life outside the ring and some because he calls fighters out who they feel he does not deserve to call out, as shown on these forums. At the end of the Day he won a Silver medal for this country and World titles in the pros, you can't take that away from him. lovers or haters ?

[thepocketrocket]

Brother Anzi, I was worried about you. You seemed quiet after the Westminster attacks so I put two and two together. Thankfully you are safe.

What i will say is that I wasn't at Khan v Prescott so won't comment. If you suffered from idiots that is bad. What i will say is that the Barrera fight was like the biggest carnival going, no racism there.

My only possible thought was that Khan felt people supported Barrera because they didn't want the him to win because he was of Asian descent. That is a stretch, but all I can think as it was one of the best atmospheres I have been to in a fight. It was like idiots stopped being idiots because of the reflective glow of MAB.

[bigjack]

I remember Khan saying the atmosphere was racist during the Barrera fight. That was funny, as I saw or heard no racist comments. What i did see was a load of sombrero's as MAB was and is a legend.

It wasn't racist at all,don't know why he said that.

How do you know ? I was at the Khan, Prescott fight and some racist hooligans, shouting racist crap, afterwards 2 muslim girls were abused by 2 punks, we jumped out the car and corrected them and was once at a Khan show were a massive gang of racists started shouting "where the pakis at", to which some of the pakistani's reacted, Khan has a lot of fans in britain but also has people who hate, some because of his Pakistani origin, some because of his life outside the ring and some because he calls fighters out who they feel he does not deserve to call out, as shown on these forums. At the end of the Day he won a Silver medal for this country and World titles in the pros, you can't take that away from him. lovers or haters ?

Because i was there,that's how i know.

[Twinkle Toes]

Was only a youngster at the time, but thought Leonard won the fight although I think that was because I was a big Leonard fan. Since then I have changed my mind and think Hagler won. Shame there was never a rematch.

[Syntax Error]

Was only a youngster at the time, but thought Leonard won the fight although I think that was because I was a big Leonard fan. Since then I have changed my mind and think Hagler won. Shame there was never a rematch.

There should have been a rematch.

Sometimes rematches are warranted & this was one such as occasion as the fight was so close.

I like Leonard, but on this occasion, he was out of order.

He had all the power & there could have been a rematch if he had any class.

After so long as a champion, Marvin had earned the right to try & regain his title against the man that took it from him.

[handsofstone]

I remember watching it and going in thinking Hagler got robbed but I was surprised that I thought Leonard won, I never scored it but thought Hagler started off way too slow and Leonard built up a handy lead

[bigjack]

I remember watching it and going in thinking Hagler got robbed but I was surprised that I thought Leonard won, I never scored it but thought Hagler started off way too slow and Leonard built up a handy lead

Hagler blew it for me by fighting in the wrong stance for the first couple of rounds,very strange decision that was.

[dr_devious]

Was only a youngster at the time, but thought Leonard won the fight although I think that was because I was a big Leonard fan. Since then I have changed my mind and think Hagler won. Shame there was never a rematch.

There should have been a rematch.

Sometimes rematches are warranted & this was one such as occasion as the fight was so close.

I like Leonard, but on this occasion, he was out of order.

He had all the power & there could have been a rematch if he had any class.

After so long as a champion, Marvin had earned the right to try & regain his title against the man that took it from him.

The judges took his title imo