Rank the most intimidating boxers of all-time

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 16 Mar 2006, 20:14

I will add Carlos Monzon. He was nasty. In the ring he looked like the devil - the bright lights above gave his eyes a very deep set, dark, hooded appearance...

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 17 Mar 2006, 01:50

I think what happened to Liston's career he was viewed as a quitter after Ali-Liston II.

Tyson never recovered, Foreman came back at 45!

Same thing can be said about John Mugabi, he was a devastating machine until he fought Hagler.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 17 Mar 2006, 02:14

Mugabi was really intimidating prior to his bout with Hagler, but I still remember his 1984 fight with James "Hard Rock" Green a guy I really liked. Instead of being intimidated by Mugabi and his KO record, the 5-4 inch Green walked up to the Beast, and with a fierce looking scowl on his face, pointed at him and yelled for all to hear "You Goin Down". And damn if Green didn't almost pull it off. In the 4th round he hit Mugabi with a pair of left hooks I think, and had him out on his feet. The bout was on the verge of being stopped, when The Beast was saved by the bell (the exact same thing happened to Green against Frank Fletcher) Mugabi recovered and gradually gained control, and in the final round the fight was prematurely stopped.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 18 Mar 2006, 10:47

Nero3000 wrote:
dr_devious wrote:
walshb wrote:All this adulation for the big bully in Liston. As Clay said to Dundee, 'the guy's a bully and bulies can't take it'...la knew that Liston was this type of character and exploited it.

Now Foreman was intimidating no doubt
How can you say Liston was just a bully, and cant take it? Marty Marshall broke his jaw in one of his early fights and Sonny went on to complete the fight but lose on points, his first defeat. This isnt the actions of someone who cant take it.
As for intimidating fighters, I agree that Bob Foster should be in the top 10, and Sam Langford and Stan Ketchel would have been very intimidating too

I agree. Actually, it was Foreman who couldn't take it. Not Liston.

To be honest I don't give a shit what went before as regards Liston. When Clay faced and beat him and later Ali, he proved what a bully or coward he was. Now by coward I'm not trying to insult him, any guy who steps thru those ropes to engage in hell deserves credit for courage. Some are just a little more corageous. So he broke his jaw, big fuckin' deal....when he realised that Clay was whupping him he withdrew thru 'injury'. So not only a bully, but a bad sport, pure gamesmanhip to take away the sweetness of Clay's victory. He then got Ko'd by the again superior Ali, and nobody knows what realy happened there. But what I do know is that the guy couldn't take the fact that Clay was whuppng him and gave in rather than finish the fight. So what more proof does one need...

Apologies for the expletives by the way....

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Mar 2006, 12:14

Dempsey sure looks intimadating in all the old films and pictures, but I dont think any of his better opponents were intimadated by him. Carparntier, Miske, Brennan and Gibbons werent afraid of him at all and tried thier best to beat him. Willard was very confident he was going to beat Dempsey, and even during the fight he could have quit at any time if he were afraid, but he went out like a man.
Tunney didnt fear him and you know Firpo didnt.
Sharkey in fact not only was not afraid of Dempsey but he actually shook him up a bit with a hard staredown. Supposedly I read somewhere that Sharkey originated this tatic during final instructions of his fight with Dempsey. Jack didnt know what to make of it. It was reported that Jack looked at his seconds confused and asked them "What the hell is he doing?"

jedijojo · Post by **jedijojo** » 18 Mar 2006, 13:30

I don't know why you compare Foreman to Liston in this case.... yeah both were intimidating as hell...

Ali stood up against both, Liston quit, but Foreman just kept trying and trying to beat him until he was exausted. George had no quit in him. A bully quit when it gets tough.

barry · Post by **barry** » 18 Mar 2006, 13:30

John L. Sullivan
Terry McGovern
Stanley Ketchel
Curtis Sheppard
Jock McAvoy
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 18 Mar 2006, 14:11

Just realised that whoever posted saying Foreman couldn't take it really ought to give up. Foreman was KO'd fair and square by Ali, he battled and battled to beat Ali and was so exhausted he was beat. To try and compare this mammoth effort to Liston's quitting on the stool and feigning injury is so so silly.....Foreman was a true legend, intimidating as hell and as tough as nails. Liston a BULLY who couldn't take an honest whupping

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 18 Mar 2006, 16:36

walshb wrote:
Nero3000 wrote:
dr_devious wrote: How can you say Liston was just a bully, and cant take it? Marty Marshall broke his jaw in one of his early fights and Sonny went on to complete the fight but lose on points, his first defeat. This isnt the actions of someone who cant take it.
As for intimidating fighters, I agree that Bob Foster should be in the top 10, and Sam Langford and Stan Ketchel would have been very intimidating too

I agree. Actually, it was Foreman who couldn't take it. Not Liston.
To be honest I don't give a shit what went before as regards Liston. When Clay faced and beat him and later Ali, he proved what a bully or coward he was. Now by coward I'm not trying to insult him, any guy who steps thru those ropes to engage in hell deserves credit for courage. Some are just a little more corageous. So he broke his jaw, big fuckin' deal....when he realised that Clay was whupping him he withdrew thru 'injury'. So not only a bully, but a bad sport, pure gamesmanhip to take away the sweetness of Clay's victory. He then got Ko'd by the again superior Ali, and nobody knows what realy happened there. But what I do know is that the guy couldn't take the fact that Clay was whuppng him and gave in rather than finish the fight. So what more proof does one need...

Apologies for the expletives by the way....

So do you apply the same to Roberto Duran and Willie Pep, both of whom quit vs. Leonard and Saddler respectively?

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 18 Mar 2006, 16:38

walshb wrote:Just realised that whoever posted saying Foreman couldn't take it really ought to give up. Foreman was KO'd fair and square by Ali, he battled and battled to beat Ali and was so exhausted he was beat. To try and compare this mammoth effort to Liston's quitting on the stool and feigning injury is so so silly.....Foreman was a true legend, intimidating as hell and as tough as nails. Liston a BULLY who couldn't take an honest whupping

I was talking about durability, not heart.

A true legend? OK.

Intimidating as hell? Yeah, for a year anyway...

Tough as nails? Depends on how you define "tough". You and I may have a different definition of toughness. I think Liston has him beat in that department.

JC · Post by JC » 19 Mar 2006, 07:48

barry wrote:John L. Sullivan
Terry McGovern
Stanley Ketchel
Curtis Sheppard
Jock McAvoy
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate

Jock McAvoy is a good shout, hadn't thought of him. That manic way he had of chewing the thumb of his glove must have made him look pretty unhinged.

jedijojo · Post by **jedijojo** » 19 Mar 2006, 14:59

walshb wrote:Just realised that whoever posted saying Foreman couldn't take it really ought to give up. Foreman was KO'd fair and square by Ali, he battled and battled to beat Ali and was so exhausted he was beat. To try and compare this mammoth effort to Liston's quitting on the stool and feigning injury is so so silly.....Foreman was a true legend, intimidating as hell and as tough as nails. Liston a BULLY who couldn't take an honest whupping

I had a similar post in this thread so......I agree

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 20 Mar 2006, 03:01

No I do not apply to Duran or Pep. I never really knew Pep as a fighter to be honest. Anyway I'm talking about Liston. Duran quit thru sheer uninterest, boredom. Liston quit because Clay was getting the upperhand and whuppin' his sorry ass!!!. He's the prime example of a bully boy....

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 20 Mar 2006, 03:24

walshb wrote:No I do not apply to Duran or Pep. I never really knew Pep as a fighter to be honest. Anyway I'm talking about Liston. Duran quit thru sheer uninterest, boredom. Liston quit because Clay was getting the upperhand and whuppin' his sorry ass!!!. He's the prime example of a bully boy....

Nice excuses, but no cigar. Duran quit cuz he was getting whupped AND humiliated. He was a bully just like Liston. No difference as far as that goes.

Pep quit cuz he was getting whupped, too. If your gonna dismiss Liston as a quitter and a "sorry ass"(did you think of that one yourself?) then you must apply the same to greats like Duran and Pep.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 20 Mar 2006, 04:51

Must I???, because you say so...that's clever isn't it??.
Maybe Duran quit because he felt he couldn't win, but Duran had proved himself V Leonard...Liston quit because Clay was fighting back and was not afraid of him. Duran took more punishment thru 8rds when he first met Ray. Either way I'm not discussing whether or not Duran was a quitter or Bully....I'm simply stating that in my opinion, Liston was a bully and a quitter...the proof is there withb Clay/Ali.....

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 20 Mar 2006, 06:26

jedijojo wrote:I don't know why you compare Foreman to Liston in this case.... yeah both were intimidating as hell...

Ali stood up against both, Liston quit, but Foreman just kept trying and trying to beat him until he was exausted. George had no quit in him. A bully quit when it gets tough.

Jedi

I'm pretty sure that Foreman could have got up. He decided not to.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 20 Mar 2006, 13:57

...i'm surprised that joe louis isn't listed here. in his day....even before he won the title he scared the hell out of many of his opponents...and some were tough guys who had mingled with top fighters for years. one of the best known examples was king levinsky....so terrified that he sat down on the middle rope as soon as the fight started and asked the referee..."please don't let him hit me." jack dempsey was working max baer's corner when max fought louis and he practically had to push him out of the dressing room. Max Baer!!!! to be fair to maxie, he knew his hands were shot and had practically no offense to take into the ring with him. the great light heavy john henry louis froze in the first round and louis knocked him out.

unlike the others who bragged or did mean staredowns, louis kept that poker face seldom changed expression...whether he was getting it or doing the hitting.
also, when the intimidation factor wasn't there....fighters who weren't afraid....billy conn and braddock being the best examples...the bomber got them anyway.

poor promo carnera...who had courage if nothing else...which he showed in his fight with max baer....was a picture of fright when when he got up after louis knocked him down.

as for liston....if they met in the center of the ring to get their instrucions i would no tbe surprised if sonny would then go back to his corner, climb thorugh the ropes and head for home. (I don't say he WOULD....just saying i wouldn't be surprised if he did.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 20 Mar 2006, 16:06

walshb wrote:Must I???, because you say so...that's clever isn't it??.
Maybe Duran quit because he felt he couldn't win, but Duran had proved himself V Leonard...Liston quit because Clay was fighting back and was not afraid of him. Duran took more punishment thru 8rds when he first met Ray. Either way I'm not discussing whether or not Duran was a quitter or Bully....I'm simply stating that in my opinion, Liston was a bully and a quitter...the proof is there withb Clay/Ali.....

You can call Liston a bully and a quitter for that one night. But you can't sum-up or dismiss his entire career or accomplishments based on the happenings in one of 54 bouts. My point is that if you are going to do that with him then you must put both Duran and Willie Pep in that category as well and dismiss all they did. I don't care what Roberto did in the first SRL fight. Quitting is quitting. Period.

BTW...there were several fighters who "fought back" against Sonny and weren't afraid of him and still got licked.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 20 Mar 2006, 16:23

as for liston....if they met in the center of the ring to get their instrucions i would no tbe surprised if sonny would then go back to his corner, climb thorugh the ropes and head for home. (I don't say he WOULD....just saying i wouldn't be surprised if he did.[/quote]

I would. Sonny was bigger and stronger than Joe and was well-aware of what he brought to the table in terms of skill, durability and power. Let's do a quick rundown on Liston's life: he was beaten horribly by his Father, engaged in uncountable street fights, had done hard prison time(where he also had done battle with hard and dangerous men), hung-out with Mafia killers and blasted his way to the heavyweight championship of the world.

Now you're saying you wouldn't be surprised if he ran out of the ring when faced with fighting Joe Louis. A mere professional boxer, not a street thug or gangster who may violently end his life(the type of thing Sonny faced his entire life).

In light of the facts of Sonny's life, I would be absolutely shocked if there were a boxer in history that Sonny would even be remotely afraid of, let alone run away from. You should be, too. Somebody coming at you with padded fists is nothing when you come from a background like Liston's.

Cheers!

hawaiianpunch · Post by **hawaiianpunch** » 20 Mar 2006, 17:26

1. Tyson
2. Liston
3. Duran
4. Gerald McClellan/Nigel Benn/Marvin Hagler/Thomas Hearns
They were all intimidating as hell!

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 01:37

As to Louis...I forgot what writer said it, but one stated that when he fought Louis, King Levinsky was the first fighter that was ever carried to the ring instead of out of it!

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 21 Mar 2006, 02:51

...i think liston might have been one the truly great heavyweghts....he just got there at the wrong time....a little too late....and too old...

but...he was a bully....and when bullies can't bully you they cease to be intimidating.

....buzzy might consider these comments oxymoronic....i'm sure we'll hear from him in one manner or another...i love his beautiful prose, so i'm hoping we will....

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 23 Mar 2006, 00:11

I think Liston was VIEWED as a quitter.

I personally think Ali/Liston II was basically Walcott being the worst referee in the history of sports.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Mar 2006, 05:21

generic screen name wrote:I think Liston was VIEWED as a quitter.

I personally think Ali/Liston II was basically Walcott being the worst referee in the history of sports.

I agree. I think Liston got hit witha flash knockdown. Ali refused to go to the corner and so Liston stayed down. They get up and start fighting again and then Walcott counts it as a KO. It was utter nonsense. Ali should have been admonished and the fight resumed, that's it. i knwo there are different theories but that's how I see it.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 23 Mar 2006, 14:12

..ezzard..there are other theories, but yours is correct.

this doesn't mean i don't think liston tanked it. he did. but walcott made it too easy for him.

Rank the most intimidating boxers of all-time

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