How is Golovkin is an ATG having never fought one

[lefty]

In terms of Eastern Europe, the list of fighters that came before GGG is huge: Kostya Tzyu, Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Nikolay Valuev, Louis Kaplan, Benny Bass, Vic Darchinyan, Orzubek Nazarov, Artur Grigorian, Sultan Ibragimov, Vasily Jirov etc.

You're welcome.

There's hasn't been a Russian-ish boxer to ever reach the level that GGG is at right now so no one gets credit for paving the way for this kid. GGG is in unchartered territory right now. He's far more popular that the Kilts ever were. Those 2 cavemen have more praise then they ever deserved.

Cobblers. The klitchskos are huge stars all over eastern europe, russia and germany. Just because they didn't ever catch on in the US, doesn't make them small fry.

Yeah undoubtedly Golovkin is a bigger star in the US (although the fact he's predominantly fought in the US has factored into that aswell) but globally, the Klitschko's are/were bigger stars.

Is Golovkin that huge of a star anyway? Did his PPV numbers hugely surpass Kovalev's for instance?

[lefty]

There's hasn't been a Russian-ish boxer to ever reach the level that GGG is at right now so no one gets credit for paving the way for this kid. GGG is in unchartered territory right now. He's far more popular that the Kilts ever were. Those 2 cavemen have more praise then they ever deserved.

Cobblers. The klitchskos are huge stars all over eastern europe, russia and germany. Just because they didn't ever catch on in the US, doesn't make them small fry.

I'm talking worldwide popularity. GGG is at a level unreached by any Eastern European EVER. No one even comes close to what the kid is doing. I don't know why it's so hard for people to admit right now. Comparing what GGG is doing to anything the Klits have done in the sport is futile. It's not even remotely close.

You clearly have no understanding of commerce.

[Thomastearns]

All fans like to identify with their heroes. Some need to identify with their favourites or its simply no dice, no matter how good they are.

This identification is usually based on race and record. Cultural background too plays a big part. I can't of any British boxers who were massive in the traditional heart of the pugilistic art, America. The Cold War made it even worse for Baltic states boxers. Hence why its taken GGG so long to get this far.

To make epic money Golovkin needs to do a lot more for his image in America whilst chasing titles and defending his belts. None of this would have been necessary if he had been a homegrown US boxer...

[Enlightened-One]

All fans like to identify with their heroes. Some need to identify with their favourites or its simply no dice, no matter how good they are.

This identification is usually based on race and record. Cultural background too plays a big part. I can't of any British boxers who were massive in the traditional heart of the pugilistic art, America. The Cold War made it even worse for Baltic states boxers. Hence why its taken GGG so long to get this far.

To make epic money Golovkin needs to do a lot more for his image in America whilst chasing titles and defending his belts. None of this would have been necessary if he had been a homegrown US boxer...

To be fair, it's hard to build a mainstream brand within English-speaking territories on the back of an individual that barely speaks English, barring a few excessively-used catchphrases.

To be honest, it shows a terrible lack of respect for his US fan base to be so poor at speaking English, considering how long he's been based in America.

[Tanzio]

All fans like to identify with their heroes. Some need to identify with their favourites or its simply no dice, no matter how good they are.

This identification is usually based on race and record. Cultural background too plays a big part. I can't of any British boxers who were massive in the traditional heart of the pugilistic art, America. The Cold War made it even worse for Baltic states boxers. Hence why its taken GGG so long to get this far.

To make epic money Golovkin needs to do a lot more for his image in America whilst chasing titles and defending his belts. None of this would have been necessary if he had been a homegrown US boxer...

To be fair, it's hard to build a mainstream brand within English-speaking territories on the back of an individual that barely speaks English, barring a few excessively-used catchphrases.

To be honest, it shows a terrible lack of respect for his US fan base to be so poor at speaking English, considering how long he's been based in America.

"A terrible lack of respect?" What a load of crap. 3G has made an effort to learn English and he has improved significantly. Some people do not have the capacity to learn another language fluently in adulthood. In fact most adults are challenged by picking up new languages. There are only so many hours in the day.

Did you have to learn English as a second or third language in adulthood? There is a reason why intelligence organizations weight their recruiting efforts heavily towards linguistic skill and capacity.

I think that 3G's challenged English has been a source of endearment with many fans.

[MachoTime]

All fans like to identify with their heroes. Some need to identify with their favourites or its simply no dice, no matter how good they are.

This identification is usually based on race and record. Cultural background too plays a big part. I can't of any British boxers who were massive in the traditional heart of the pugilistic art, America. The Cold War made it even worse for Baltic states boxers. Hence why its taken GGG so long to get this far.

To make epic money Golovkin needs to do a lot more for his image in America whilst chasing titles and defending his belts. None of this would have been necessary if he had been a homegrown US boxer...

To be fair, it's hard to build a mainstream brand within English-speaking territories on the back of an individual that barely speaks English, barring a few excessively-used catchphrases.

To be honest, it shows a terrible lack of respect for his US fan base to be so poor at speaking English, considering how long he's been based in America.

You've gone mad.

[Horse]

Golovkin shows his contempt for America by not speaking English fluently.

Chuck him in the ocean.

[Tanzio]

Golovkin shows his contempt for America by not speaking English fluently.

Chuck him in the ocean.

Absolutely. A language litmus test should be instituted immediately

[Enlightened-One]

All fans like to identify with their heroes. Some need to identify with their favourites or its simply no dice, no matter how good they are.

This identification is usually based on race and record. Cultural background too plays a big part. I can't of any British boxers who were massive in the traditional heart of the pugilistic art, America. The Cold War made it even worse for Baltic states boxers. Hence why its taken GGG so long to get this far.

To make epic money Golovkin needs to do a lot more for his image in America whilst chasing titles and defending his belts. None of this would have been necessary if he had been a homegrown US boxer...

To be fair, it's hard to build a mainstream brand within English-speaking territories on the back of an individual that barely speaks English, barring a few excessively-used catchphrases.

To be honest, it shows a terrible lack of respect for his US fan base to be so poor at speaking English, considering how long he's been based in America.

"A terrible lack of respect?" What a load of crap. 3G has made an effort to learn English and he has improved significantly. Some people do not have the capacity to learn another language fluently in adulthood. In fact most adults are challenged by picking up new languages. There are only so many hours in the day.

Did you have to learn English as a second or third language in adulthood? There is a reason why intelligence organizations weight their recruiting efforts heavily towards linguistic skill and capacity.

I think that 3G's challenged English has been a source of endearment with many fans.

Whilst I sincerely regret the severity of my remarks, I cannot retract the entirety of the sentiments expressed in my previous post.

GGG has been competed in English speaking territories for almost five years and his grasp of the English language has not improved in recent years.

Based on personal experience, I have met a lot of people from various age groups, from various geographical territories, whose grasp of the English language became comparable to Golovkin’s levels after only four months.

The vast majority of the people, his fans, that fund his fight purses are English speakers. And disappointingly, I have seen recent interviews of him on YouTube, where you can hear his translator explaining the questions that are posed to him.

I appreciate that it’s not easy learning a language and people learn at different rates, but after almost five years… I feel he should be fluent in English. His accent will doggedly remain until his final breath, but at this point in time, he should no longer require the services of a translator.

And to be honest, part of the reason why GGG’s PPV buy-rates are disappointingly low, despite his enormous talent, is because he’s unable to “sell” his personality to the mainstream masses, to give them a reason to care about "him" enough to pay to watch his bouts.

I don’t want to offend anybody and nor do I intend to be intentionally provocative, but my opinion is based on personal experience…

[ValMar]

It is rather difficult to express yourself properly in your third or fourth language. Would you, English speaking guys, try to speak Russian,Italian or Slovenian ?

[Enlightened-One]

It is rather difficult to express yourself properly in your third or fourth language. Would you, English speaking guys, try to speak Russian,Italian or Slovenian ?

After almost five years, when it’s in my financial interest to do so, I’d be incredibly motivated to become fluent in a secondary language, especially considering the fact that it also happens to be the native dialect of the fan base that funds the vast majority of your income.

I don’t dislike Golovkin, but I feel that he should be better at speaking English, which isn’t such an unreasonably harsh criticism.

[MachoTime]

It is rather difficult to express yourself properly in your third or fourth language. Would you, English speaking guys, try to speak Russian,Italian or Slovenian ?

After almost five years, when it’s in my financial interest to do so, I’d be incredibly motivated to become fluent in a secondary language, especially considering the fact that it also happens to be the native dialect of the fan base that funds the vast majority of your income.

I don’t dislike Golovkin, but I feel that he should be better at speaking English, which isn’t such an unreasonably harsh criticism.

You don't sound to Enlightened that GGG hasn't learned the English Language to your specifications..

[Enlightened-One]

It is rather difficult to express yourself properly in your third or fourth language. Would you, English speaking guys, try to speak Russian,Italian or Slovenian ?

After almost five years, when it’s in my financial interest to do so, I’d be incredibly motivated to become fluent in a secondary language, especially considering the fact that it also happens to be the native dialect of the fan base that funds the vast majority of your income.

I don’t dislike Golovkin, but I feel that he should be better at speaking English, which isn’t such an unreasonably harsh criticism.

You don't sound to Enlightened that GGG hasn't learned the English Language to your specifications..

That's not the point I was making... and you'd know that if you were following this thread.

I merely speculated that one of the possible factors that explains GGG's poor PPV buy-rate, is the fact that his command of the English language isn't sufficient for the target market that buys these events.

If my opinion seems harsh and wholly unacceptable to you, then I apologise for any offence caused, but I cannot retract any thoughts that I believe to be true.

And I do believe that Golovkin is partially responsible for his own situation, since he almost certainly should be better at speaking English.

[amwsnw]

He speak chinese for all i care. Im only worried about what he does in the ring. That has proven he will be an ATG.

[gilgamesh]

Being the best and most avoided guy in your division for 4 or 5 consecutive years surely means something. Lots of great Middleweights didn't have a run of terror that lasted that long.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It is rather difficult to express yourself properly in your third or fourth language. Would you, English speaking guys, try to speak Russian,Italian or Slovenian ?

After almost five years, when it’s in my financial interest to do so, I’d be incredibly motivated to become fluent in a secondary language, especially considering the fact that it also happens to be the native dialect of the fan base that funds the vast majority of your income.

I don’t dislike Golovkin, but I feel that he should be better at speaking English, which isn’t such an unreasonably harsh criticism.

You don't sound to Enlightened that GGG hasn't learned the English Language to your specifications..

He's an ass clown. Ggg speaks plenty of English, we couldn't care less. He's one of less than a handful of draws here in a dead sport.

[ValMar]

After almost five years, when it’s in my financial interest to do so, I’d be incredibly motivated to become fluent in a secondary language, especially considering the fact that it also happens to be the native dialect of the fan base that funds the vast majority of your income.

I don’t dislike Golovkin, but I feel that he should be better at speaking English, which isn’t such an unreasonably harsh criticism.

You don't sound to Enlightened that GGG hasn't learned the English Language to your specifications..

He's an ass clown. Ggg speaks plenty of English, we couldn't care less. He's one of less than a handful of draws here in a dead sport.

Boxing is becoming "a dead sport" unfortunately. Golovkin's ppv buys are not so bad, all his ppv matches (Lemieux, Brook, Jacobs) were profitable.
Can you imagine Canelo's ppv numbers without Mexicans in USA ? As I know, Canelo's English is worse than Golovkin's.
IMHO, UK ppv numbers are more important than USA ppv numbers. And, yes, better knowledge of English language would help Golovkin to become more popular in USA/UK.

[Evander]

He's not but he's good.

[caldo2025]

You used the term "paving the way" during your original claim, learn what it means, because it doesn't mean the "biggest" commercially or most "successful" sporting-wise.

In terms of basic English, your original claim was wrong.

Even if GGG is the biggest Eastern European boxing star right now, your original claim is still wrong.

Personally-speaking, I think you've accidentally misused a phrase in your original argument that you didn't quite understand, which we've all done at some point.

GGG is in a position that no other Eastern European has been in before. Period. If no one has been there before and he's the first one to do it, inspiring kids growing up now that didn't think it possible, then he's paving the way. Why am i explaining this to you? I have no idea. There are little GGG''s all over the map right now and his popularity on a world stage is immense. If you don't understand that then you should probably not read anything i write because i'm not into explaining phrases to someone that appears to be a grown person.

You are also obviously "not into" verifying your own claims, understanding what you are saying, or learning how to communicate more accurately. You are clearly the "don't confuse me with facts, I think therefore I know" brand of vacuum, caldOHm.

The Siamese Klit are the builders of the infrastucture that post Soviet Bloc boxers utilize today. There were boxers that preceded them but they are the prime contractors of the edifice.

All that and still you can't miss a word that i put down on this site. Admit it, you are entertained by my musings. It's ok....say it after me...IT'S OK...IT'S OK (Good Will Hunting movie scene). For instance, I clicked on a BNovel post the other day by accident and after reading the guys whole post, I still hated it. Not a great example but you know what i mean.

[caldo2025]

There's hasn't been a Russian-ish boxer to ever reach the level that GGG is at right now so no one gets credit for paving the way for this kid. GGG is in unchartered territory right now. He's far more popular that the Kilts ever were. Those 2 cavemen have more praise then they ever deserved.

Cobblers. The klitchskos are huge stars all over eastern europe, russia and germany. Just because they didn't ever catch on in the US, doesn't make them small fry.

Yeah undoubtedly Golovkin is a bigger star in the US (although the fact he's predominantly fought in the US has factored into that aswell) but globally, the Klitschko's are/were bigger stars.

Is Golovkin that huge of a star anyway? Did his PPV numbers hugely surpass Kovalev's for instance?

Klits and Tszyu references are horrible because these fighters did not have crossover appeal that GGG has or worldwide notoriety. The Russian-ish boxers before GGG were cold, boring and unlikeable to a point. GGG changed the mold in a big way with that huge smile of his, amusing quotes and brilliant boxing. Do you think that there's ever been a Russian-ish boxer to fight in a main event at Madison Square Garden against a popular NY native fighter (Jacobs) and have more fans cheering for him than the NY native? I've never seen that in my 35 years of watching the sport.

GGG is changing the perception of the Russian-ish boxers that Rocky/Ivan Drago created back in the 80's and it's going to PAVE THE WAY for a Russian-ish invasion of talent and appeal that we haven't seen before since the Cold War.

[Tanzio]

GGG is in a position that no other Eastern European has been in before. Period. If no one has been there before and he's the first one to do it, inspiring kids growing up now that didn't think it possible, then he's paving the way. Why am i explaining this to you? I have no idea. There are little GGG''s all over the map right now and his popularity on a world stage is immense. If you don't understand that then you should probably not read anything i write because i'm not into explaining phrases to someone that appears to be a grown person.

You are also obviously "not into" verifying your own claims, understanding what you are saying, or learning how to communicate more accurately. You are clearly the "don't confuse me with facts, I think therefore I know" brand of vacuum, caldOHm.

The Siamese Klit are the builders of the infrastucture that post Soviet Bloc boxers utilize today. There were boxers that preceded them but they are the prime contractors of the edifice.

All that and still you can't miss a word that i put down on this site. Admit it, you are entertained by my musings. It's ok....say it after me...IT'S OK...IT'S OK (Good Will Hunting movie scene). For instance, I clicked on a BNovel post the other day by accident and after reading the guys whole post, I still hated it. Not a great example but you know what i mean.

I am entertained, by the gorilla sized inferiority complex you carry around next to the nearly empty vessel where most people house a brain.

[candyslim]

I've just read all eight pages of this thread in its entirety - yes I know I really ought to get a life. There are some interesting points and the enlightened one has got some probably deserved stick for criticising GGG's command of the English language, but there was one post that jumped out at me as being the most poignant in any discussion of anyone's credentials as an all time great and it was this one:

Gennady Golovkin was universally recognised as a world-rated top-ten 160lb fighter in 2008, with his career-best victories coming against the likes of David Lemieux, Daniel Geale & Danny Jacobs. Those are GGG’s career-best victories during a professional career spanning almost eleven years, but the people that frequent this forum are passionately arguing that he should already be considered an “all-time-great”.

Over a timespan of ONE YEAR AND NINE MONTHS, a legitimate “all-time-great”, Sugar Ray Leonard engaged in fights against the likes of the following fighters:

• Captured the WBC World welterweight title against the unbeaten Hall-of-Famer, Wilfred Benitez, who himself had competed in seven world title fights over two weight divisions, losing only two of them (to Thomas Hearns and Ray Leonard), and holds victories over the likes of Carlos Palomino, Maurice Hope and Roberto Duran.

• Successfully defended his WBC World welterweight title against the WBC's 10th rated 147lb-er in the form of Dave 'Boy' Green.

• Lost the WBC World welterweight title against the Hall-of-Famer, Roberto Duran, who himself had only tasted defeat once over a twelve year and three month career.

• Regained the WBC World welterweight title against the Hall-of-Famer, Roberto Duran, becoming only the second man to inflict a defeat on an all-time-great that had been competing as a pro for more than twelve years and nine months.

• Successfully defended his WBC World welterweight title against the WBC's 6th rated 147lb-er in the form of Larry Bonds.

• Captured the WBA World super welterweight title against the undefeated Ayub Kalule, who himself had competed in six world title fights, losing only one of them and holds a victory of the great Sumbu Kalambay. His four losses came against naturally bigger and genuinely greater fighters, such as Ray Leonard, Mike McCallum, Herol Graham and Davey Moore.

• Unified the WBC and WBA World welterweight title when he became the first man to inflict a defeat on the Hall-of-Famer, Thomas Hearns' resume.

I think that people need to appreciate what an “all-time-great” actually is before making over-the-top claims.

This prompted some cheap shot about Larry Bonds who was a respectable wwt, but forget Larry Bonds and give some consideration to the other achievements on this list: That is how you go about becoming a genuine all-time-great.

[NateJR]

Golovkin is a very good fighter. Have a hard time considering him a ATG though.

[world ranked]

How is Golovkin is an ATG having never fought one

Well that's just untrue. Golvokin has proven himself to be the one of the best P4P fighters in the world and because of his fearsome reputation as a heavy puncher, there are many opponents who won't face him (Chris Eubank Jr, Billy Joe Saunders, Saul Alvarez).

It's not actually GGG's fault that people won't step up to face him. All Golovkin can do is just keep on doing what he's doing, staying active and busy, keep on defending his many belts and try to get another one (the WBO if Saunders would man up)

Just because you get ducked doesn't make you an ATG

[Crease]

Just because you get ducked doesn't make you an ATG

At least we can agree on that.

But Golivkin can't do any more than what he's alteady doing. He's a surpremely dominant unified champion.