AJ's opponents vs Wlads

[punchoutsb]

The exciting slugfest was against Savarese. Toney wasn't fat for that one, he was povetkined to the gills. He would have beaten either of those guys too. Donald and Byrd were early 40's, he was all torn up with injuries and those guys would have always had a problematic style for him. Fury sticking his chin out would land him flat on his back.

42 year old Savarese who hadn't had a meaningful fight in four years. And even with his chin stuck out, Fury was too tall for Vander to land a headbutt on

Toney

Holyfield/Savarese was easily one of the best Heavyweight fights in the last 15 years. Fury stuck his chin out bent over at the waist, easily tagged by a Holyfield hook. Toney was good for a minute at Heavyweight.

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

42 year old Savarese who hadn't had a meaningful fight in four years. And even with his chin stuck out, Fury was too tall for Vander to land a headbutt on

Toney

Holyfield/Savarese was easily one of the best Heavyweight fights in the last 15 years. Fury stuck his chin out bent over at the waist, easily tagged by a Holyfield hook. Toney was good for a minute at Heavyweight.

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

There were no top level operators at Heavyweight. I think Joshua can be the first one since Lewis, we'll see later this month.

[punchoutsb]

Holyfield/Savarese was easily one of the best Heavyweight fights in the last 15 years. Fury stuck his chin out bent over at the waist, easily tagged by a Holyfield hook. Toney was good for a minute at Heavyweight.

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

There were no top level operators at Heavyweight. I think Joshua can be the first one since Lewis, we'll see later this month.

There's always a top level.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

There were no top level operators at Heavyweight. I think Joshua can be the first one since Lewis, we'll see later this month.

There's always a top level.

Too each their own. #1 doesn't necessarily = elite for me. Wlad was clearly the best of his era, historically he's nothing special. Vitali is virtually nonexistent.

[Tuan_Jim]

42 year old Savarese who hadn't had a meaningful fight in four years. And even with his chin stuck out, Fury was too tall for Vander to land a headbutt on

Toney

Holyfield/Savarese was easily one of the best Heavyweight fights in the last 15 years. Fury stuck his chin out bent over at the waist, easily tagged by a Holyfield hook. Toney was good for a minute at Heavyweight.

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

Later on Holyfield did actually manoeuvre the monstrous Valuev for 12 rds with more skill & finesse than either David Haye or Chagaev could muster. Savarese he just beat up and decked a couple of times. Seem to remember him putting Oquendo on his arse in the first too. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a Holy of those fights, with both arms working, outsmarted the gormless Wladimir or Tyson '82 Punches Landed' Fury.

[punchoutsb]

There were no top level operators at Heavyweight. I think Joshua can be the first one since Lewis, we'll see later this month.

There's always a top level.

Too each their own. #1 doesn't necessarily = elite for me. Wlad was clearly the best of his era, historically he's nothing special. Vitali is virtually nonexistent.

I didn't say elite, just top level. There's always a "best" even if it's not as good as other "bests". I know we disagree about Wlad historically but that's not a big deal to either of us.

Holyfield/Savarese was easily one of the best Heavyweight fights in the last 15 years. Fury stuck his chin out bent over at the waist, easily tagged by a Holyfield hook. Toney was good for a minute at Heavyweight.

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

Later on Holyfield did actually manoeuvre the monstrous Valuev for 12 rds with more skill & finesse than either David Haye or Chagaev could muster. Savarese he just beat up and decked a couple of times. Seem to remember him putting Oquendo on his arse in the first too. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a Holy of those fights, with both arms working, outsmarted the gormless Wladimir or Tyson '82 Punches Landed' Fury.

That's almost double what Holy landed on the great Sultan Ibragimov, isn't it?

Aside from that I remember him landed little against Fres Oquendo either. Decided to have a quick look see and he landed 92. At least Fury has the excuse of being in the with best Heavy since Lewis at his utmost tentative. Holy wasn't in with anyone special in either of those outings.

[Ossyrules]

Fury vs Wlad to me will always be a great achievement, going away to the champion to dethrone a ten year champion. Did what others couldn't and started the end of the klitschkos...

But the fight was not out of the top draw. There was an element of skill, but I'd also agree that fury if fighting on the outside had advantages over Wlad. Not one to remember the fight itself, but the result is.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

There's always a top level.

Too each their own. #1 doesn't necessarily = elite for me. Wlad was clearly the best of his era, historically he's nothing special. Vitali is virtually nonexistent.

I didn't say elite, just top level. There's always a "best" even if it's not as good as other "bests". I know we disagree about Wlad historically but that's not a big deal to either of us.

I remember the fight, it was a fun battle. Not too dissimilar from Minto/Maddalone. Two somewhat equally matched heavyweights well below the best. Proof that good fights don't need top level operators.

Later on Holyfield did actually manoeuvre the monstrous Valuev for 12 rds with more skill & finesse than either David Haye or Chagaev could muster. Savarese he just beat up and decked a couple of times. Seem to remember him putting Oquendo on his arse in the first too. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a Holy of those fights, with both arms working, outsmarted the gormless Wladimir or Tyson '82 Punches Landed' Fury.

That's almost double what Holy landed on the great Sultan Ibragimov, isn't it?

Aside from that I remember him landed little against Fres Oquendo either. Decided to have a quick look see and he landed 92. At least Fury has the excuse of being in the with best Heavy since Lewis at his utmost tentative. Holy wasn't in with anyone special in either of those outings.

so you were just taking the time to tell me there are always top contenders? Thank you very much. Fury wasn't in with anything special either.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Surely you must agree that wlad was abysmal against fury? Not that it's shameful at his age,

[gilgamesh]

Fury vs Wlad to me will always be a great achievement, going away to the champion to dethrone a ten year champion. Did what others couldn't and started the end of the klitschkos...

But the fight was not out of the top draw. There was an element of skill, but I'd also agree that fury if fighting on the outside had advantages over Wlad. Not one to remember the fight itself, but the result is.

That fight lowered both fighters in my opinion. It didn't lift anybody's image. It just proved all the critics that always said Wlad couldn't hold the jockstrap of the past greats correct because none of the greats would've just given up their title without a fight like that against a chump like Fury who was barely doing anything.

[Ossyrules]

Fury vs Wlad to me will always be a great achievement, going away to the champion to dethrone a ten year champion. Did what others couldn't and started the end of the klitschkos...

But the fight was not out of the top draw. There was an element of skill, but I'd also agree that fury if fighting on the outside had advantages over Wlad. Not one to remember the fight itself, but the result is.

That fight lowered both fighters in my opinion. It didn't lift anybody's image. It just proved all the critics that always said Wlad couldn't hold the jockstrap of the past greats correct because none of the greats would've just given up their title without a fight like that against a chump like Fury who was barely doing anything.

It certainly lowers Wlads stock, significantly. He gave it a bit of a go in the last round and fury wasn't all that steady imo.

As for fury, it was a really poor fight but I find it hard to go too far on him, cos he won and did what he needed to do on this occasion. I'm not really a fury fan either tbh, his fans are some of the most annoying in boxing, on forums at least. Fury won't be remembered in history unless he comes back and wins some more fights and looks good doing it though

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It didn't lower wlads stock for me. He's too old for that.

[Horse]

That fight lowered both fighters in my opinion. It didn't lift anybody's image.

Absurd.

It just proved all the critics that always said Wlad couldn't hold the jockstrap of the past greats correct because none of the greats would've just given up their title without a fight like that against a chump like Fury who was barely doing anything.

Fury's no chump.

He's the best in the world.

[Ossyrules]

It didn't lower wlads stock for me. He's too old for that.

It's a fair point, age waits around for no man, but he was in decent form in fights prior, albeit Jennings presented some problems

[gilgamesh]

It didn't lower wlads stock for me. He's too old for that.

It didn't lower him as badly for me now as it did at the time, but at the time I was watching it I was absolutely disgusted. He certainly didn't try that night. I don't even know what the hell a fighter could be thinking to get into a ring and just stare at a guy for 36 minutes.

[gilgamesh]

That fight lowered both fighters in my opinion. It didn't lift anybody's image.

Absurd.

It just proved all the critics that always said Wlad couldn't hold the jockstrap of the past greats correct because none of the greats would've just given up their title without a fight like that against a chump like Fury who was barely doing anything.

Fury's no chump.

He's the best in the world.

At being a fat cokehead that doesn't take his career seriously maybe. At being a Boxer, no. He's not even the best in England.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It didn't lower wlads stock for me. He's too old for that.

It didn't lower him as badly for me now as it did at the time, but at the time I was watching it I was absolutely disgusted. He certainly didn't try that night. I don't even know what the hell a fighter could be thinking to get into a ring and just stare at a guy for 36 minutes.

I understand, you rated him much higher than I did to begin with.

[Horse]

At being a fat cokehead that doesn't take his career seriously maybe. At being a Boxer, no. He's not even the best in England.

Fury's the heavyweight champion of the world.

He's No. 1

[Horse]

It didn't lower him as badly for me now as it did at the time, but at the time I was watching it I was absolutely disgusted. He certainly didn't try that night. I don't even know what the hell a fighter could be thinking to get into a ring and just stare at a guy for 36 minutes.

He tried in the last 2 rounds at least.

[gilgamesh]

At being a fat cokehead that doesn't take his career seriously maybe. At being a Boxer, no. He's not even the best in England.

Fury's the heavyweight champion of the world.

He's No. 1

At the moment he's not even ranked at all. He gave up the belt and he's not an active fighter until he returns. He has to re-establish that he even WANTS to fight to be considered a contender again in my opinion, but I figure he must be your cousin or something as much as you love him so I don't mean to insult your family.

I'd like to see him return though because I'd like to see him get knocked out.

[gilgamesh]

It didn't lower wlads stock for me. He's too old for that.

It didn't lower him as badly for me now as it did at the time, but at the time I was watching it I was absolutely disgusted. He certainly didn't try that night. I don't even know what the hell a fighter could be thinking to get into a ring and just stare at a guy for 36 minutes.

I understand, you rated him much higher than I did to begin with.

Yeah probably.

[Horse]

At the moment he's not even ranked at all. He gave up the belt and he's not an active fighter until he returns. He has to re-establish that he even WANTS to fight to be considered a contender again in my opinion, but I figure he must be your cousin or something as much as you love him so I don't mean to insult your family.

I'd like to see him return though because I'd like to see him get knocked out.

He's still the Ring and Lineal champion.

Fury's going to be the one doing the knocking out when he returns.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It didn't lower him as badly for me now as it did at the time, but at the time I was watching it I was absolutely disgusted. He certainly didn't try that night. I don't even know what the hell a fighter could be thinking to get into a ring and just stare at a guy for 36 minutes.

I understand, you rated him much higher than I did to begin with.

Yeah probably.

I'd comfortably say he's top 40 for me, I doubt fury is top 100.

[Ossyrules]

At the moment he's not even ranked at all. He gave up the belt and he's not an active fighter until he returns. He has to re-establish that he even WANTS to fight to be considered a contender again in my opinion, but I figure he must be your cousin or something as much as you love him so I don't mean to insult your family.

I'd like to see him return though because I'd like to see him get knocked out.

He's still the Ring and Lineal champion.

Fury's going to be the one doing the knocking out when he returns.

Furys not knocking out decent opponents

[Horse]

Furys not knocking out decent opponents

Yes, he will.