How is Golovkin is an ATG having never fought one

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think Canelo wants the fight, it's golden boy who don't. It's annoying, because I don't think a loss to GGG would harm his career, I don't think GGG will just blow him away, think Canelo is tough and skilled enough to make a fight of it, and they can have a rematch for another big pot.

In the meantime, I think rematches with Jacobs and Lemiuex will do ok, not huge numbers, but ok.

With every day that passes, GingerHead's chances v 3G improve.

Yes, true, he could lose his timing at his age quite quickly.

[Enlightened-One]

Floyd Mayweather agreed to be on the proverbial B-side when he faced Gatti and De La Hoya, he competed in multiple weight classes in order to obtain opportunities to compete against the sports "biggest" names, he made an effort to gain mainstream recognition by making appearances on 'Dancing With The Stars' and the WWE, as well as performing after-dinner speaking by touring multiple countries… and there is proof of GBP and Mayweather Promotions making substantial offers to the sports’ biggest names to face him.

Can you prove that Gennady Golovkin or his team have made similar efforts to market himself to the mainstream masses and secure the biggest fights possible?

I really don’t think anyone can and I also feel that’s the reason why his PPV buy-rates are so low and his level of competition is not so great, despite his enormous talents.

The difference is that Mayweather has always had money as his primary (by far) motivator. I think it is quite lower in Golovkin's decision making.

The problem is that fighters are known as “PRIZE” fighters not “PRIDE” fighters… and any “big” name fighters will refuse to face Golovkin if they aren’t being paid their worth.

From a historical perspective, some of the “biggest” name 160lb-ers since 2008 could command similar or even greater fight purses by competing against lesser threats than Golovkin. So what’s to motivate them to share the ring with him?

If Golovkin doesn’t bring a lot of money to the table and there is no proof of K2 offering sizable purses to any of his rivals, then why should anyone expect GGG to compete in marquee bouts, especially if his team are reluctant to accept the sort of contractual terms typically accepted by fighters on the B-side (such as GBP’s $15m offer to face Canelo)?

In addition to the ongoing Canelo contract negotiations (i.e. the $15m refusal), the manner in which K2 negotiated with Jacobs and Saunders (last year) was dodgy, which kind of rules out the “money doesn’t matter” theory.

Simply put: “big fights” do not normally take place without the fighters involved being rewarded with “big paydays”.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think Canelo wants the fight, it's golden boy who don't. It's annoying, because I don't think a loss to GGG would harm his career, I don't think GGG will just blow him away, think Canelo is tough and skilled enough to make a fight of it, and they can have a rematch for another big pot.

In the meantime, I think rematches with Jacobs and Lemiuex will do ok, not huge numbers, but ok.

I thought the same, not anymore. Canelo forced GBP to make the trout & Lara fights. He isn't doing that here or it would have happened after his embarrassing call out. He's comfortable going along with this duck.

[Tanzio]

Floyd Mayweather agreed to be on the proverbial B-side when he faced Gatti and De La Hoya, he competed in multiple weight classes in order to obtain opportunities to compete against the sports "biggest" names, he made an effort to gain mainstream recognition by making appearances on 'Dancing With The Stars' and the WWE, as well as performing after-dinner speaking by touring multiple countries… and there is proof of GBP and Mayweather Promotions making substantial offers to the sports’ biggest names to face him.

Can you prove that Gennady Golovkin or his team have made similar efforts to market himself to the mainstream masses and secure the biggest fights possible?

I really don’t think anyone can and I also feel that’s the reason why his PPV buy-rates are so low and his level of competition is not so great, despite his enormous talents.

The difference is that Mayweather has always had money as his primary (by far) motivator. I think it is quite lower in Golovkin's decision making.

The problem is that fighters are known as “PRIZE” fighters not “PRIDE” fighters… and any “big” name fighters will refuse to face Golovkin if they aren’t being paid their worth.

From a historical perspective, some of the “biggest” name 160lb-ers since 2008 could command similar or even greater fight purses by competing against lesser threats than Golovkin. So what’s to motivate them to share the ring with him?

If Golovkin doesn’t bring a lot of money to the table and there is no proof of K2 offering sizable purses to any of his rivals, then why should anyone expect GGG to compete in marquee bouts, especially if his team are reluctant to accept the sort of contractual terms typically accepted by fighters on the B-side (such as GBP’s $15m offer to face Canelo)?

In addition to the ongoing Canelo contract negotiations (i.e. the $15m refusal), the manner in which K2 negotiated with Jacobs and Saunders (last year) was dodgy, which kind of rules out the “money doesn’t matter” theory.

Simply put: “big fights” do not normally take place without the fighters involved being rewarded with “big paydays”.

Big is a relative term. 3G appears quite comfortable to me. Jacobs and Lemieux are both better off for fighting him.

Is his management team great? I am not impressed.

I see 3G as principled not prideful.

[Enlightened-One]

Big is a relative term. 3G appears quite comfortable to me. Jacobs and Lemieux are both better off for fighting him.

Is his management team great? I am not impressed.

I see 3G as principled not prideful.

I agree with this.

If Al Haymon, Bob Arum, Oscar De La Hoya or even Eddie Hearn was involved with Gennady, I’m sure he would be a much bigger name with a much better resume.

[Enlightened-One]

I think Canelo wants the fight, it's golden boy who don't. It's annoying, because I don't think a loss to GGG would harm his career, I don't think GGG will just blow him away, think Canelo is tough and skilled enough to make a fight of it, and they can have a rematch for another big pot.

In the meantime, I think rematches with Jacobs and Lemiuex will do ok, not huge numbers, but ok.

I thought the same, not anymore. Canelo forced GBP to make the trout & Lara fights. He isn't doing that here or it would have happened after his embarrassing call out. He's comfortable going along with this duck.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Golden Boy lose (or “sell”) their biggest name fighters at the beginning of 2015 as part of the settlement with Richard Schaefer and Al Haymon, which subsequently resulted in Canelo being responsible for generating at least 94% of GBP’s revenue from that point in time onwards?

The Lara & Trout fights both took place before GBP “lost” most of their stable of fighters during January 2015… and I don’t believe that this is a mere coincidence for the way that Canelo's career has been carefully managed since then, but I guess my explanation is less exciting, dramatic and theatrical than your “ducking” assumption?

[Crease]

G has stood on principle, not pride. GingerHead swallowed his pride back when he surrendered his MW belt without a fight.

I know that every fan is entitled to their own differing opinions but it is an undeniable FACT that Canelo withdrew from the Middleweight division rather than face Golovkin.

His win over Miguel Cotto would have set up a Superfight with Golovkin perfectly but he chose to retreat back down to Light Middle.

[Crease]

Golovkin will not be considered to be a real ATG by many in the future, if he doesn't humble himself and take what he is worth in negotiations with Alvarez and others on a higher level.

I'm curious, which "others" are you refering to?

[Crease]

He could accept his fair share of the cut for the big fights and fight the best.

Certainly and bt fair share you mean "accepting less than 50% of the fight pot" don't you?

It's a very sorry day for boxing when a Triple Unified World Champion with a perfect record is expected to risk all of it and not be considered the A side of a bout.

[Enlightened-One]

G has stood on principle, not pride. GingerHead swallowed his pride back when he surrendered his MW belt without a fight.

I know that every fan is entitled to their own differing opinions but it is an undeniable FACT that Canelo withdrew from the Middleweight division rather than face Golovkin.

You make it sound like someone held a gun to Canelo's head and threatened his life if he didn't make a choice between losing one pounds to capture the WBO light middleweight title or face GGG instead? Does Golovkin not have any say in this, considering the tough ongoing negotiations currently taking place?

For that reason alone, I think you're wrong about claiming FACTS, when you're in possession of none.

With the exception of the Mayweather catch-weight bout, Canelo has typically weighed between 153lbs and 155lbs for his last twelve contests, covering a six-year timeframe, with his mathematical average (to the nearest pound) weight being 154lbs, which happened to be the same weight he fought Liam Smith at. Now that's what you call an undeniable FACT!!!

[Ossyrules]

G has stood on principle, not pride. GingerHead swallowed his pride back when he surrendered his MW belt without a fight.

I know that every fan is entitled to their own differing opinions but it is an undeniable FACT that Canelo withdrew from the Middleweight division rather than face Golovkin.

You make it sound like someone held a gun to Canelo's head and threatened his life if he didn't make a choice between losing one pounds to capture the WBO light middleweight title or face GGG instead? Does Golovkin not have any say in this, considering the tough ongoing negotiations currently taking place?

For that reason alone, I think you're wrong about claiming FACTS, when you're in possession of none.

You need to learn to think for yourself EO. So obstructive. Work it out. Canelos at middleweight. The biggest fight is GGG, but he drops a division to fight an alphabet holder Liam smith, whose a nobody at world level. Who do you think is avoiding who here?

If you're a troll I'll credit you're much more thorough than the typical troll

[Crease]

make a choice between losing one pounds to capture the WBO light middleweight title or face GGG instead? Does Golovkin not have any say in this, considering the tough ongoing negotiations currently taking place?

For that reason alone, I think you're wrong about claiming FACTS, when you're in possession of none.

For someone entitling themselves with such a prodigious screen name, i eould have expected more.

You yourself have alreadu admitted that Canelo moved back doen and that is the critical point.

Canelo backed off, Golivkin is still there waiting = FACT!

[Enlightened-One]

I know that every fan is entitled to their own differing opinions but it is an undeniable FACT that Canelo withdrew from the Middleweight division rather than face Golovkin.

You make it sound like someone held a gun to Canelo's head and threatened his life if he didn't make a choice between losing one pounds to capture the WBO light middleweight title or face GGG instead? Does Golovkin not have any say in this, considering the tough ongoing negotiations currently taking place?

For that reason alone, I think you're wrong about claiming FACTS, when you're in possession of none.

You need to learn to think for yourself EO. So obstructive. Work it out. Canelos at middleweight. The biggest fight is GGG, but he drops a division to fight an alphabet holder Liam smith, whose a nobody at world level. Who do you think is avoiding who here?

If you're a troll I'll credit you're much more thorough than the typical troll

I’m not a troll, but I do like to make provocative points to encourage debate about topics that interest me, since the majority of the discussions taking place on this forum are simply people being unnecessarily derogatory - comments that generally don't relate to the real-world.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

The reason why he vacated his WBC belt, was due to Golden Boy’s flat-refusal to allow that boxing organisation to dictate purse splits and fight date deadlines. The GGG-Canelo fight itself is worth more than that title. K2 would not have accepted the WBC-stipulated 25% challenger purse split (as per the current contract ongoing negotiations).

In my mind, there’s nothing wrong with Canelo fighting a legitimately bigger man, such as Chavez Jr., since none of his previous opponents were legitimate 160lb-ers. This would allow him to acclimatise to the new weight class and make him feel more accustomed with being on the receiving end of the heavier blows.

The entire boxing world has known since June of last year that the Canelo-GGG super-fight was scheduled to take place on the 16th September, 2017, which means that the delay should surprise no one other than those who don't follow the sport! This was announce several months before Alvarez fought Liam Smith.

You might prefer to label me a troll, but if this was truly the case, it should be easy to undermine my factually-correct posts, yet you never seem to challenge point-by-point the claims that I make. I wonder why?

Accusing me of being a troll, just because you cannot challenge me, is much akin to someone conceding that the debate is lost.

[Horse]

Canelo backed off, Golivkin is still there waiting = FACT!

Yeah, waiting with his pecker in his hand.

King Nothing, playing at being a big shot.

[Crease]

With the exception of the Mayweather catch-weight bout, Canelo has typically weighed between 153lbs and 155lbs for his last twelve contests, covering a six-year timeframe, with his mathematical average (to the nearest pound) weight being 154lbs, which happened to be the same weight he fought Liam Smith at. Now that's what you call an undeniable FACT!!!

That is not a fact, put simply - that is a n obscure stat of your own making which is neither accurate nor comprehensive, since you are cutting an opponent out of it.

If this is your justification for Caneli fight Liam Smith then it is delirious and laughable ti the nth degree.

Canelo can make Middleweight shoukd he wish to - as he oroved fighting Cotto.

All evidence suggests that Alvarez doesn't want the fight with GGG.

[Enlightened-One]

With the exception of the Mayweather catch-weight bout, Canelo has typically weighed between 153lbs and 155lbs for his last twelve contests, covering a six-year timeframe, with his mathematical average (to the nearest pound) weight being 154lbs, which happened to be the same weight he fought Liam Smith at. Now that's what you call an undeniable FACT!!!

That is not a fact, put simply - that is a n obscure stat of your own making which is neither accurate nor comprehensive, since you are cutting an opponent out of it.

If this is your justification for Caneli fight Liam Smith then it is delirious and laughable ti the nth degree.

Canelo can make Middleweight shoukd he wish to - as he oroved fighting Cotto.

All evidence suggests that Alvarez doesn't want the fight with GGG.

I have to repeat myself, because you refuse to read my posts...

My weight claims are factually-accurate! Verify these facts for yourself and get back to me on this.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

The reason why he vacated his WBC belt, was due to Golden Boy’s flat-refusal to allow that boxing organisation to dictate purse splits and fight date deadlines. The GGG-Canelo fight itself is worth more than that title. K2 would not have accepted the WBC-stipulated 25% challenger purse split (as per the current contract ongoing negotiations). Golovkin wouldn't have taken the Canelo fight under the WBC's terms.

The entire boxing world has known since June of last year that the Canelo-GGG super-fight was scheduled to take place on the 16th September, 2017, which means that the delay should surprise no one other than those who don't follow the sport! This was announced several months before Alvarez fought Liam Smith.

Fact-check each claim I've made, point-by-point, and then prove to me that I'm wrong... you can't, and that's "delirious and laughable to the nth degree!"

[Crease]

Yeah, waiting with his pecker in his hand.
King Nothing, playing at being a big shot.

When your boy, Alvarez wins & holds 3 World Chanpionships concurrently...
Then, we'll talk about it.

[Horse]

When your boy, Alvarez wins & holds 3 World Chanpionships concurrently...
Then, we'll talk about it.

Let Golovkin collect his belts, while Alvarez collects the names and the money.

[boxing_rocks]

When your boy, Alvarez wins & holds 3 World Chanpionships concurrently...
Then, we'll talk about it.

Let Golovkin collect his belts, while Alvarez collects the names and the money.

Golovkin has more than enough money to not worry about it for the rest of his life. Yes, he should complete his collection, while Canelo fights midgets or dehydrated dummies.

[Horse]

Golovkin has more than enough money to not worry about it for the rest of his life. Yes, he should complete his collection, while Canelo fights midgets or dehydrated dummies.

Alvarez still has a better record than Golovkin.

Alvarez has a very good chance of going down in history as the greater fighter.

Golovkin should enjoy his little belt collection, but it's his record that will matter the most when his legacy is being evaluated and his ducking of the elite will count against him hugely.

[boxing_rocks]

Golovkin has more than enough money to not worry about it for the rest of his life. Yes, he should complete his collection, while Canelo fights midgets or dehydrated dummies.

Alvarez still has a better record than Golovkin.

Alvarez has a very good chance of going down in history as the greater fighter.

Golovkin should enjoy his little belt collection, but it's his record that will matter the most when his legacy is being evaluated and his ducking of the elite will count against him hugely.

If Saunders fight happens, Golovkin is going down in history as one of very few undisputed champions in the history of 4 ABC orgs. He also has a good chance of beating Bernard's record. Canelo won't have any of that.

[Tanzio]

With the exception of the Mayweather catch-weight bout, Canelo has typically weighed between 153lbs and 155lbs for his last twelve contests, covering a six-year timeframe, with his mathematical average (to the nearest pound) weight being 154lbs, which happened to be the same weight he fought Liam Smith at. Now that's what you call an undeniable FACT!!!

That is not a fact, put simply - that is a n obscure stat of your own making which is neither accurate nor comprehensive, since you are cutting an opponent out of it.

If this is your justification for Caneli fight Liam Smith then it is delirious and laughable ti the nth degree.

Canelo can make Middleweight shoukd he wish to - as he oroved fighting Cotto.

All evidence suggests that Alvarez doesn't want the fight with GGG.

I have to repeat myself, because you refuse to read my posts...

My weight claims are factually-accurate! Verify these facts for yourself and get back to me on this.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

The reason why he vacated his WBC belt, was due to Golden Boy’s flat-refusal to allow that boxing organisation to dictate purse splits and fight date deadlines. The GGG-Canelo fight itself is worth more than that title. K2 would not have accepted the WBC-stipulated 25% challenger purse split (as per the current contract ongoing negotiations). Golovkin wouldn't have taken the Canelo fight under the WBC's terms.

The entire boxing world has known since June of last year that the Canelo-GGG super-fight was scheduled to take place on the 16th September, 2017, which means that the delay should surprise no one other than those who don't follow the sport! This was announced several months before Alvarez fought Liam Smith.

Fact-check each claim I've made, point-by-point, and then prove to me that I'm wrong... you can't, and that's "delirious and laughable to the nth degree!"

Here is a fact for you and Mr. Ed; GingerHead is fighting a bobbleheaded circus clown at 164.5 in May.

Your arguments are laughable. GingerHead Boy Productions have been shamelessly ducking 3G for years, waiting for him to age properly.

It is pathetic that a person who so fervently criticizes the financial elite holds money as the preeminant measure of success in boxing. What a load of rubbish.

Everyone knows that GingerHead has feared 3G to date because his professional strategy and tactics prove it. There is more to life than money. Principle, honor and courage are also important measures of a man, especially in boxing.

3G is the king of the second most significant hill in boxing and he rules as he sees fit.

[montrealsuper]

GGG has shown obvious ring greatness and the fact that FOUR future HoFers have ducked GGG is highly impressive (Floyd Cotto Sergio Canelo) GGG is the most avoided WC in boxing history -

[punchoutsb]

My weight claims are factually-accurate! Verify these facts for yourself and get back to me on this.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

What do you mean technically competed in the middleweight division? 155 is a MW "technically" and "officially". 160 is the weight limit, not the weight requirement. The fact he weighs in under 160 has no relevance on anything. Are you saying Canelo isn't/wasn't a MW?

In my mind, there’s nothing wrong with Canelo fighting a legitimately bigger man, such as Chavez Jr., since none of his previous opponents were legitimate 160lb-ers. This would allow him to acclimatise to the new weight class and make him feel more accustomed with being on the receiving end of the heavier blows.

Which "new weight class" do you mean? Do you mean MW? Canelo has fought at MW 4 times and was a MW World Champion.

Or do you mean SMW? If so, why is there "nothing wrong" in your mind with Canelo jumping to Super Middleweight to fight a guy who has weighed in as high as 172 1/2 but was apparently (according to many of his fans) too small to fight a guy who has weighed in under the 160 weight limit for 84% of his fights?

[Enlightened-One]

That is not a fact, put simply - that is a n obscure stat of your own making which is neither accurate nor comprehensive, since you are cutting an opponent out of it.

If this is your justification for Caneli fight Liam Smith then it is delirious and laughable ti the nth degree.

Canelo can make Middleweight shoukd he wish to - as he oroved fighting Cotto.

All evidence suggests that Alvarez doesn't want the fight with GGG.

I have to repeat myself, because you refuse to read my posts...

My weight claims are factually-accurate! Verify these facts for yourself and get back to me on this.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

The reason why he vacated his WBC belt, was due to Golden Boy’s flat-refusal to allow that boxing organisation to dictate purse splits and fight date deadlines. The GGG-Canelo fight itself is worth more than that title. K2 would not have accepted the WBC-stipulated 25% challenger purse split (as per the current contract ongoing negotiations). Golovkin wouldn't have taken the Canelo fight under the WBC's terms.

The entire boxing world has known since June of last year that the Canelo-GGG super-fight was scheduled to take place on the 16th September, 2017, which means that the delay should surprise no one other than those who don't follow the sport! This was announced several months before Alvarez fought Liam Smith.

Fact-check each claim I've made, point-by-point, and then prove to me that I'm wrong... you can't, and that's "delirious and laughable to the nth degree!"

Here is a fact for you and Mr. Ed; GingerHead is fighting a bobbleheaded circus clown at 164.5 in May.

Your arguments are laughable. GingerHead Boy Productions have been shamelessly ducking 3G for years, waiting for him to age properly.

It is pathetic that a person who so fervently criticizes the financial elite holds money as the preeminant measure of success in boxing. What a load of rubbish.

Everyone knows that GingerHead has feared 3G to date because his professional strategy and tactics prove it. There is more to life than money. Principle, honor and courage are also important measures of a man, especially in boxing.

3G is the king of the second most significant hill in boxing and he rules as he sees fit.

There’s nothing informative or factually-correct about your response, barring a few emotive and derogatory words that carry no meaning, since your comments have no basis in fact and also seem inconsistent with the actions of K2.

What I wrote in my previous post is easily verifiable, since it’s common knowledge.

You might believe that my claims are “laughable”, but all I’m guilty of doing is to accurately portray reality.