How is Golovkin is an ATG having never fought one

[Tanzio]

I have to repeat myself, because you refuse to read my posts...

My weight claims are factually-accurate! Verify these facts for yourself and get back to me on this.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

The reason why he vacated his WBC belt, was due to Golden Boy’s flat-refusal to allow that boxing organisation to dictate purse splits and fight date deadlines. The GGG-Canelo fight itself is worth more than that title. K2 would not have accepted the WBC-stipulated 25% challenger purse split (as per the current contract ongoing negotiations). Golovkin wouldn't have taken the Canelo fight under the WBC's terms.

The entire boxing world has known since June of last year that the Canelo-GGG super-fight was scheduled to take place on the 16th September, 2017, which means that the delay should surprise no one other than those who don't follow the sport! This was announced several months before Alvarez fought Liam Smith.

Fact-check each claim I've made, point-by-point, and then prove to me that I'm wrong... you can't, and that's "delirious and laughable to the nth degree!"

Here is a fact for you and Mr. Ed; GingerHead is fighting a bobbleheaded circus clown at 164.5 in May.

Your arguments are laughable. GingerHead Boy Productions have been shamelessly ducking 3G for years, waiting for him to age properly.

It is pathetic that a person who so fervently criticizes the financial elite holds money as the preeminant measure of success in boxing. What a load of rubbish.

Everyone knows that GingerHead has feared 3G to date because his professional strategy and tactics prove it. There is more to life than money. Principle, honor and courage are also important measures of a man, especially in boxing.

3G is the king of the second most significant hill in boxing and he rules as he sees fit.

There’s nothing informative or factually-correct about your response, barring a few emotive and derogatory words that carry no meaning, since your comments have no basis in fact and also seem inconsistent with the actions of K2.

What I wrote in my previous post is easily verifiable, since it’s common knowledge.

You might believe that my claims are “laughable”, but all I’m guilty of doing is to accurately portray reality.

. . . as you see fit to alter it.

One of GingerHead's (illegitimate) arguments has been that he is too small for MW. That is verifiably false given that he has held an MW belt and he has fought at MW multiple times. If that is not enough evidence, he has chosen to fight in May at SMW, verses a circus act who will be drained to lterally skeletal proportions to make weight.

Team GingerHead is a laughingstock to anyone paying attention. They are shameless in the literal sense, which makes them no less pathetic.

[Enlightened-One]

What I wrote in my previous post is easily verifiable, since it’s common knowledge.

You might believe that my claims are “laughable”, but all I’m guilty of doing is to accurately portray reality.

. . . as you see fit to alter it.

One of GingerHead's (illegitimate) arguments has been that he is too small for MW. That is verifiably false given that he has held an MW belt and he has fought at MW multiple times. If that is not enough evidence, he has chosen to fight in May at SMW, verses a circus act who will be drained to lterally skeletal proportions to make weight.

Team GingerHead is a laughingstock to anyone paying attention. They are shameless in the literal sense, which makes them no less pathetic.

Canelo captured the WBC and Ring titles at 160lbs by defeating an opponent that officially weighed the same as a light middleweight (i.e. Cotto weighing 153½lbs). Alvarez has never "officially" weighed more than 155lbs.

In regards to Canelo competing in a super-middleweight bout, barring Golovkin or engaging in a rematch against Cotto, the most lucrative contest for him is against Chavez Jr, which also conveniently helps him to acclimatise to being on the receiving end of heavy blows thrown by bigger men.

The Chavez Jr-Canelo catch-weight is simply the only way GBP could secure a bout against a super-middleweight. I believe that Alvarez weighing more than 160lbs will simply be a one-off, a commercial decision to secure a fight against a commercially-huge name.

Let’s not forget that Team GGG had previously claimed that they were willing to face several super-middleweights and light heavyweights, but they would only consider facing Andre Ward with a 164lb catch-weight stipulation… and I have previously posted multiple videos of interviews with Tom Loeffler, Abel Sanchez and Gennady Golovkin confirming this.

So you shouldn’t apply double-standards – your criticism has to be applied consistently, because otherwise your bias will render your opinion as utterly worthless.

And once again, please try to challenge the factual-accuracy of each of my claims on a point-by-point basis, since sweeping statements are meaningless without being supported by facts.

[Tanzio]

What I wrote in my previous post is easily verifiable, since it’s common knowledge.

You might believe that my claims are “laughable”, but all I’m guilty of doing is to accurately portray reality.

. . . as you see fit to alter it.

One of GingerHead's (illegitimate) arguments has been that he is too small for MW. That is verifiably false given that he has held an MW belt and he has fought at MW multiple times. If that is not enough evidence, he has chosen to fight in May at SMW, verses a circus act who will be drained to lterally skeletal proportions to make weight.

Team GingerHead is a laughingstock to anyone paying attention. They are shameless in the literal sense, which makes them no less pathetic.

Canelo captured the WBC and Ring titles at 160lbs by defeating an opponent that officially weighed the same as a light middleweight (i.e. Cotto weighing 153½lbs). Alvarez has never "officially" weighed more than 155lbs.

In regards to Canelo competing in a super-middleweight bout, barring Golovkin or engaging in a rematch against Cotto, the most lucrative contest for him is against Chavez Jr, which also conveniently helps him to acclimatise to being on the receiving end of heavy blows thrown by bigger men.

The Chavez Jr-Canelo catch-weight is simply the only way GBP could secure a bout against a super-middleweight. I believe that Alvarez weighing more than 160lbs will simply be a one-off, a commercial decision to secure a fight against a commercially-huge name.

Let’s not forget that Team GGG had previously claimed that they were willing to face several super-middleweights and light heavyweights, but they would only consider facing Andre Ward with a 164lb catch-weight stipulation… and I have previously posted multiple videos of interviews with Tom Loeffler, Abel Sanchez and Gennady Golovkin confirming this.

So you shouldn’t apply double-standards – your criticism has to be applied consistently, because otherwise your bias will render your opinion as utterly worthless.

And once again, please try to challenge the factual-accuracy of each of my claims on a point-by-point basis, since sweeping statements are meaningless without being supported by facts.

#1; he fought Cotto for an MW / 160 belt, which he then relinquished without a fight.

#2; he is participating in a dancing with a skeleton circus act in May.

#3; 3G is the MW king. All challengers for the kings crown must come to MW and try to go through him. The rest is cheap talk.

#4; GingerHead has no excuses for not facing 3G by this September. There is only one reason it has taken this long, which will remain the lone reason if the fight does not happen in September; they are waiting for 3Gto get old.

[Ossyrules]

You make it sound like someone held a gun to Canelo's head and threatened his life if he didn't make a choice between losing one pounds to capture the WBO light middleweight title or face GGG instead? Does Golovkin not have any say in this, considering the tough ongoing negotiations currently taking place?

For that reason alone, I think you're wrong about claiming FACTS, when you're in possession of none.

You need to learn to think for yourself EO. So obstructive. Work it out. Canelos at middleweight. The biggest fight is GGG, but he drops a division to fight an alphabet holder Liam smith, whose a nobody at world level. Who do you think is avoiding who here?

If you're a troll I'll credit you're much more thorough than the typical troll

I’m not a troll, but I do like to make provocative points to encourage debate about topics that interest me, since the majority of the discussions taking place on this forum are simply people being unnecessarily derogatory - comments that generally don't relate to the real-world.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

The reason why he vacated his WBC belt, was due to Golden Boy’s flat-refusal to allow that boxing organisation to dictate purse splits and fight date deadlines. The GGG-Canelo fight itself is worth more than that title. K2 would not have accepted the WBC-stipulated 25% challenger purse split (as per the current contract ongoing negotiations).

In my mind, there’s nothing wrong with Canelo fighting a legitimately bigger man, such as Chavez Jr., since none of his previous opponents were legitimate 160lb-ers. This would allow him to acclimatise to the new weight class and make him feel more accustomed with being on the receiving end of the heavier blows.

The entire boxing world has known since June of last year that the Canelo-GGG super-fight was scheduled to take place on the 16th September, 2017, which means that the delay should surprise no one other than those who don't follow the sport! This was announce several months before Alvarez fought Liam Smith.

You might prefer to label me a troll, but if this was truly the case, it should be easy to undermine my factually-correct posts, yet you never seem to challenge point-by-point the claims that I make. I wonder why?

Accusing me of being a troll, just because you cannot challenge me, is much akin to someone conceding that the debate is lost.

You're not the typical troll as I alluded too, just the type that if the majority say it's black, you'll say it's white.

If Canelo weighs 155lb he's not technically at middleweight, he's at middleweight. He's come in lighter to suit himself. Canelo vs ggg is the biggest fight for either but we hear shite like golden boy want it to marinate, while Canelo matches smith, welterweight Khan, and now he's acclimatising himself to 160 by fighting at super middle catchweight. Yeah ok

[punchoutsb]

My weight claims are factually-accurate! Verify these facts for yourself and get back to me on this.

When Canelo had technically competed in the middleweight division, his official weight was only 155lbs - not 160lbs.

What do you mean technically competed in the middleweight division? 155 is a MW "technically" and "officially". 160 is the weight limit, not the weight requirement. The fact he weighs in under 160 has no relevance on anything. Are you saying Canelo isn't/wasn't a MW?

In my mind, there’s nothing wrong with Canelo fighting a legitimately bigger man, such as Chavez Jr., since none of his previous opponents were legitimate 160lb-ers. This would allow him to acclimatise to the new weight class and make him feel more accustomed with being on the receiving end of the heavier blows.

Which "new weight class" do you mean? Do you mean MW? Canelo has fought at MW 4 times and was a MW World Champion.

Or do you mean SMW? If so, why is there "nothing wrong" in your mind with Canelo jumping to Super Middleweight to fight a guy who has weighed in as high as 172 1/2 but was apparently (according to many of his fans) too small to fight a guy who has weighed in under the 160 weight limit for 84% of his fights?

Were you going to clarify these questions for me EO?

[boxing_rocks]

People keep stepping into the Enlightened-Sh!t.

[G.McClellan]

Because he is The best in his era . He is Unified Champion and holds at least one Title since seven years , also he has an unbelievable Knockout Streak and has beaten Daniel Jacobs relatively clear , despite what a lot of biased People say. His Career is not over , i think he has 3 or 4 years left in the Business and will fight better opposition and will break Hopkins Record , so he is an legitimate ATG at the End of his Career

I couldn't have said it better.

[Enlightened-One]

People keep stepping into the Enlightened-Sh!t.

To be fair, the vast majority of my comments in this thread, perhaps as much as 99% of my words, were factually-correct statements previously articulated by media articles and interview transcripts.

So I don't know why you're severely outraged by claims that you've already read elsewhere? Nothing I've said is new, since it's common knowledge... and I know for certain that you're aware of most of these issues, but they didn't bother you previously.

[Enlightened-One]

You're not the typical troll as I alluded too, just the type that if the majority say it's black, you'll say it's white.

With all due respect, I would request that you review my forum posting history and re-evaluate this claim.

Just because I prefer to refrain from obediently adhering to the views expressed by the Lemming-like masses, those poor souls who have become conditioned to possess parrot opinions implanted in their minds by the collective BoxRec forum community, this doesn’t mean that I’m intentionally going out of my way to offend anyone.

In my mind, people only appreciate “facts” that reinforces their beliefs, known as confirmation bias, in order to fulfil their personal agenda. These opinions stubbornly persist even when someone like myself presents irrefutable evidence and logic that clearly disproves their claims.

There is no shame in being misinformed or admitting to making mistakes, revising ones opinion is perfectly acceptable, but it seems that most of the people that frequent this forum prefer to doggedly stick by their gut instinct, intuition or adhering to the perception of the masses, despite the presence of overwhelming evidence proving that they are misguided.

In reference to your particular comment, I actually don’t see things in “black” and “white”, but rather shades of “grey”… and nor do I believe in “heroes” and “villains”, whereby one party is always assumed that they're “guilty” of all wrongdoing, whilst the other is always presumed “innocent”.

[Ossyrules]

You're not the typical troll as I alluded too, just the type that if the majority say it's black, you'll say it's white.

With all due respect, I would request that you review my forum posting history and re-evaluate this claim.

Just because I prefer to refrain from obediently adhering to the views expressed by the Lemming-like masses, those poor souls who have become conditioned to possess parrot opinions implanted in their minds by the collective BoxRec forum community, this doesn’t mean that I’m intentionally going out of my way to offend anyone.

In my mind, people only appreciate “facts” that reinforces their beliefs, known as confirmation bias, in order to fulfil their personal agenda. These opinions stubbornly persist even when someone like myself presents irrefutable evidence and logic that clearly disproves their claims.

There is no shame in being misinformed or admitting to making mistakes, revising ones opinion is perfectly acceptable, but it seems that most of the people that frequent this forum prefer to doggedly stick by their gut instinct, intuition or adhering to the perception of the masses, despite the presence of overwhelming evidence proving that they are misguided.

In reference to your particular comment, I actually don’t see things in “black” and “white”, but rather shades of “grey”… and nor do I believe in “heroes” and “villains”, whereby one party is always assumed that they're “guilty” of all wrongdoing, whilst the other is always presumed “innocent”.

Fair response, it just appears you revel too much as devils advocate and rely on certain bits of information to prove a point beyond all reasonable doubt. Theirs some things that aren't hard to piece together

[G.McClellan]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

[greg]

..I didn't quite follow the thread..are we talking here top 5 ATG, top 10/20 ATG? meaning just MW, right?

[Tanzio]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

[Ossyrules]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

You forgot Roy, who was better than Hopkins at 160 imo. The best at 160 in my life time

[Tanzio]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

You forgot Roy, who was better than Hopkins at 160 imo. The best at 160 in my life time

True. I just think of RJJ as above MW.

[Ossyrules]

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

You forgot Roy, who was better than Hopkins at 160 imo. The best at 160 in my life time

True. I just think of RJJ as above MW.

Yeah jumping through the weights gets you forgotten about at any one weight sometimes. Hopkins achieved more at 160, but Roy was better

[boxing_rocks]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

I am not a fan of analyzing imaginary matchups, but ...

SRR is probably the greatest MW ever, but by current standards, he is a WW. I doubt that he could beat prime Golovkin. I also have doubts about the other 3, especially Monzon and Hopkins, beating Golovkin.

[Ossyrules]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

I am not a fan of analyzing imaginary matchups, but ...

SRR is probably the greatest MW ever, but by current standards, he is a WW. I doubt that he could beat prime Golovkin. I also have doubts about the other 3, especially Monzon and Hopkins, beating Golovkin.

Is SRR the greatest middle? He's the greatest WW and generally considered the greatest ever general. But I think there's a select few that may be better at 160

[G.McClellan]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

You had to mention hall of famers and TBEs (SRR and Hagler) as opponents who stand a chance against Golovkin. Sugar Ray was more of a welter so I wouldn't include him. But the point stands if you had to call upon the greatest there's ever been to face Golovkin, then in your mind he's not just an all time great, but one of the best there's ever been.

p.s. I would add Charley Burley to the list as well.

[Enlightened-One]

p.s. I would add Charley Burley to the list as well.

Here are some questions that should be very easy to answer for anyone that talks about Charley Burley with such confidence:

• How many Charley Burley fights are freely available to watch online?
• When did you first watch Charley Burley and what made you do so?
• What are some of your favourite Charley Burley fights?
• What is Charley Burley's fighting style?
• Which opponents did Charley Burley face that impressed you the most?

For the record, I'm not testing you, I just want to learn.

[punchoutsb]

p.s. I would add Charley Burley to the list as well.

Here are some questions that should be very easy to answer for anyone that talks about Charley Burley with such confidence:

• How many Charley Burley fights are freely available to watch online?
• When did you first watch Charley Burley and what made you do so?
• What are some of your favourite Charley Burley fights?
• What is Charley Burley's fighting style?
• Which opponents did Charley Burley face that impressed you the most?

For the record, I'm not testing you, I just want to learn.

Has Canelo ever been a MW and which new weight class is he acclimating to?

[Tanzio]

I agree with Thomastearns. It's not whether Golovkin is an ATG, but whether he's the best ever. I'm leaning towards TBE.

Too many posters are tying themselves in knots trying to argue why Triple G isn't an ATG. Yet they can't name a single fighter who could beat him.

It's laughable.

Hagler
SRR
Monzon
BHop

You had to mention hall of famers and TBEs (SRR and Hagler) as opponents who stand a chance against Golovkin. Sugar Ray was more of a welter so I wouldn't include him. But the point stands if you had to call upon the greatest there's ever been to face Golovkin, then in your mind he's not just an all time great, but one of the best there's ever been.

p.s. I would add Charley Burley to the list as well.

I have been defending 3G throughout this thread. That said, I would take Hagler, BHop, RJJ, Monzon, and SRR over 3G with confidence. It is all subjective conjecture but I would also take a number of others over 3G. That does not mean that I do not consider 3G the best of his era and a top ten atg MW.

[G.McClellan]

p.s. I would add Charley Burley to the list as well.

Here are some questions that should be very easy to answer for anyone that talks about Charley Burley with such confidence:

• How many Charley Burley fights are freely available to watch online?
• When did you first watch Charley Burley and what made you do so?
• What are some of your favourite Charley Burley fights?
• What is Charley Burley's fighting style?
• Which opponents did Charley Burley face that impressed you the most?

For the record, I'm not testing you, I just want to learn.

When arguably the greatest pound for pound fighter in history tells his manager "I'm too pretty to face Burley" and proceeds not to fight him. It informs you the man has serious talent.

We can never know definitively how good he was, but the indications suggest ATG, if not more.

[Enlightened-One]

p.s. I would add Charley Burley to the list as well.

Here are some questions that should be very easy to answer for anyone that talks about Charley Burley with such confidence:

• How many Charley Burley fights are freely available to watch online?
• When did you first watch Charley Burley and what made you do so?
• What are some of your favourite Charley Burley fights?
• What is Charley Burley's fighting style?
• Which opponents did Charley Burley face that impressed you the most?

For the record, I'm not testing you, I just want to learn.

When arguably the greatest pound for pound fighter in history tells his manager "I'm too pretty to face Burley" and proceeds not to fight him. It informs you the man has serious talent.

We can never know definitively how good he was, but the indications suggest ATG, if not more.

Thanks for responding.

I've read website articles and snippets from books telling me how great Charley Burley was... and a bit about his background, but I was wondering if I could learn something new from you, to gain a new perspective on the man... since very few people have actually watched him fight, barring ten minutes or so.

[Crease]

Let Golovkin collect his belts, while Alvarez collects the names and the money.

You may be surprised as to what boxing historians will consider the greater achievement.

The man who continual defends and unifies his weight division (as Hagler & Monzon done before him) - or the man who jumps up and down the weight classes and cherry picks his opponents for the quick dollar note.