Ambling Alp wrote:Ali has said that Shavers was the hardest puncher he ever fought.
These statements about who them the hardest may not mean a lot.
Some guys aren't going to say an opponent that they didn't like.
Also, they may not have got hit with the other guys best punch when they fought them. For example, Ali didn't get by many clean hard punches against Liston, like he did against Foreman, Frazier, and Shavers.
True. Will work like that at times. Too..a guy like George Foreman complimenting GC for power..may very well be a case in which George, the nice-guy looking to soft land the opposition. You know he is like that.
Especially with George Foreman I believe only a very deep conversation with the man will bring out the true accounts.
Foreman vs GC I have seen that film. Certainly GC NOT at his height by then plus it seemed like a real set-up with the promotional picture they were using.
man wrote:the heavies are obviously the hardest hitters
and the one who faced most HOF opponents
is arguably muhammad ali. he said ernie shavers
hit hardest. reality might be different, but that
seems a solid line of argument for me.
It must be true.
Anyone who ever fought Shavers said he hit them the hardest.
Controversial wrote:Bobby Czyz said Mercer was the hardest puncher he fought.
HARDEST PUNCHER I FOUGHT
“RAY MERCER, in sparring. It was in the early 1990s and he weighed 234 pounds, me 195. He hit me with a right hand and I actually thought a piece of cement had fallen from the ceiling and hit me in the head! I don’t remember it, but I came right back at him and hit him in the mouth. Ray tells everyone I was the hardest he ever hit a guy in his life!”
BEST FIGHTER I SPARRED
“PROBABLY Ray Mercer – he was the hardest-hitting anyway. I had trouble with fast guys, like Frank Tate. I liked the tough guys. I sparred a lot with Mitch Green. He was a good boxer, a great amateur, and he outweighed me by quite a lot. I was 19 years old at the time and we went at it in some good sessions. I busted his lip wide open.”
If he busted Mitch's lip open, then Bobby was something else. In those sessions with Tony Ayala, he probably hurt Tony as well. Shame him and Alex Ramos never fought.
Blimey a Kalan post I agree with! Very true, a guy gets brutally koed and the winner doesn't warrant a mention but its always those that they beat as it makes them sound more heroic. Like Evander never says bowe hit hardest as he hoed him with one punch, he says foreman who he beat on pts. Shavers gets a lot of comments though, god dam he was a hard puncher.
Kalan wrote:
Controversial wrote:You faced some big punchers in your day. Who was the best?"
Pinklon Thomas: "Mike Weaver"
Thomas was knocked out 5 times... but he calls a fighter who he knocked out the hardest puncher... That's consistent with what most boxers will tell you... They hate to remind you of fights they lost, especially by KO... They love to recall famous boxers who they beat -- especially guys who they knocked out.
cfang wrote:Blimey a Kalan post I agree with! Very true, a guy gets brutally koed and the winner doesn't warrant a mention but its always those that they beat as it makes them sound more heroic. Like Evander never says bowe hit hardest as he hoed him with one punch, he says foreman who he beat on pts. Shavers gets a lot of comments though, god dam he was a hard puncher.
Kalan wrote:
Controversial wrote:You faced some big punchers in your day. Who was the best?"
Pinklon Thomas: "Mike Weaver"
Thomas was knocked out 5 times... but he calls a fighter who he knocked out the hardest puncher... That's consistent with what most boxers will tell you... They hate to remind you of fights they lost, especially by KO... They love to recall famous boxers who they beat -- especially guys who they knocked out.
Except it's not uncommon for fighters who are knocked out to not even remember the punch that knocked them out. Being knocked unconscious is a split second thing, taking blows in a fight is likely to be more painful and something you will remember better than being knocked out.
Pinklon Thomas was only knocked out by Mike Tyson. Only time he was off his feet too. Against Holyfield, Bowe and Morrison he retired on his stool. You only need eyes to see that he was washed up and that none of them cracked him like Weaver and Tyson.
yeah,I remember Jeffries writing in his autobiography that Joe Choynski had hit him with the single hardest punch he was ever hit with.
But he also said in there somewhere that Bob Fitzsimmons punches were at least one- third harder when the hit then Tom Sharkey punches.
Caractacus wrote:Mike Weaver always tells everyone who ever asks him who the hardest puncher was he ever faced in the ring and he always says
Bernardo Mercado.
Mike may have changed that opinion if he fought Cooney, Page, or Witherspoon.
Stacy Goodson, long time member here and former fighter and promoter, told me that of all the guys he fought from 154 to 200 pounds it was Donny Lalonde that hit him the hardest.
["HomicideHenry"]
Stacy Goodson, long time member here and former fighter and promoter, told me that of all the guys he fought from 154 to 200 pounds it was Donny Lalonde that hit him the hardest.
WELL DONE.
In 34 words, you have just convinced 25,873 soppy Sugar Ray Leonard fans, his chin is as rock solid as Marvin Hagler's, or Jake LaMotta's.
Leonard didn't necessarily have a weak or even average chin.
In 34 words, you have just convinced 25,873 soppy Sugar Ray Leonard fans, his chin is as rock solid as Marvin Hagler's, or Jake LaMotta's.
Leonard didn't necessarily have a weak or even average chin.
This is indeed true. But he didn't have an iron chin either, otherwise Hector camacho wouldn't have had him in all kinds of trouble, would he? Never mind the world renowned Kevin Howard putting him flat on his back.
Maybe not Hagler but anyone who can take shots from Hearns, Duran, and Hagler and wasn't dropped by neither of them is pretty impressive.
IKSRTFO wrote:
Maybe not Hagler but anyone who can take shots from Hearns, Duran, and Hagler and wasn't dropped by neither of them is pretty impressive.
Hearns dropped Leonard twice in their rematch. The poster who bought up the Camacho loss is a bit unfair, SRL had been retired for 6 years and almost 41, he wasn't as good as he used to be.
Controversial wrote:
The poster who bought up the Camacho loss is a bit unfair, SRL had been retired for 6 years and almost 41, he wasn't as good as he used to be.
Camacho was almost 35, he wasn't as good as he used to be, and was fighting as a middleweight.
Controversial wrote:
The poster who bought up the Camacho loss is a bit unfair, SRL had been retired for 6 years and almost 41, he wasn't as good as he used to be.
Camacho was almost 35, he wasn't as good as he used to be, and was fighting as a middleweight.
The point was SRL wouldn't have been stopped by Camacho had they fought in their prime. Camacho was younger, fresher and more active and that played a big part in SRL losing in that fashion.
Controversial wrote:
The poster who bought up the Camacho loss is a bit unfair, SRL had been retired for 6 years and almost 41, he wasn't as good as he used to be.
Camacho was almost 35, he wasn't as good as he used to be, and was fighting as a middleweight.
The point was SRL wouldn't have been stopped by Camacho had they fought in their prime. Camacho was younger, fresher and more active and that played a big part in SRL losing in that fashion.
The point was I am calling you on your one-sided favoritism to Leonard.
Sidney Carton wrote:
Camacho was almost 35, he wasn't as good as he used to be, and was fighting as a middleweight.
The point was SRL wouldn't have been stopped by Camacho had they fought in their prime. Camacho was younger, fresher and more active and that played a big part in SRL losing in that fashion.
The point was I am calling you on your one-sided favoritism to Leonard.
I'm not a big SRL fan so no favourtism just pointing out the obvious
golden oldie wrote:
The point is they would never have fought in their primes because Camacho was a S / Feather / Lightweight in his. Leonard had 3 and a half inches in height, and 5 inches in reach over Hector, but still he was battered from pillar to post by a guy who was NOT a renowned puncher.
golden oldie wrote:
The point is they would never have fought in their primes because Camacho was a S / Feather / Lightweight in his. Leonard had 3 and a half inches in height, and 5 inches in reach over Hector, but still he was battered from pillar to post by a guy who was NOT a renowned puncher.
That says it all.
And Benard Hopkins was knocked out of the ring by a journeyman. Doesn't mean his chin wasn't iron in his prime.
Ambling Alp II wrote:That says it all? Sidney, I hope you are joking.
One part that left out was that Leonard was 40 years old and had not fought for 6 years.
Well, I guess I left out the part where was never knocked down before he retired in 1982. This includes two fights with Duran and one with Hearns.
You said "that says it all". Obviously it doesn't. Unbelievable that you leave out major details like that Leonard being 40 and being off for 6 years and say that you are covering everything.
Thinking that the Camacho fight is relevant at all when evaluating about Leonard's career (or Camacho's career for that matter) is ridiculous. Do we really have to debate this?
