Post Your Scorecards

[world ranked]

GGG-Jacobs

1-Jacobs
2-Jacobs
3-Jacobs
4-Golovkin (10-8)
5-Golovkin
6-Jacobs
7-Golovkin
8-Jacobs
9-Golovkin
10-Jacobs
11-Golovkin
12-Jacobs

114-113 Jacobs
Just watched first time. Golovkin did nothing first three rounds. A lot swing rounds I thought 6-8 & 11-12 could have went either way. I have no problem if someone said either guy won. But I can't someone who said no way Jacobs won.

[Seamus]

I haven't seen it yet, but interesting how this happened at a time when a fair number of people were proclaiming Golovkin an alltime great Middleweight.

[world ranked]

I haven't seen it yet, but interesting how this happened at a time when a fair number of people were proclaiming Golovkin an alltime great Middleweight.

People get caught up in knockouts and there biases.

[scartissue]

Saw this fight listed and couldn't resist. The 10 round rematch between Chucho Castillo and Raul Cruz. Here we go, California scoring.

Round 1: Castillo
Round 2: Castillo
Round 3: Castillo
Round 4: Cruz
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Castillo (outstanding round - watch the exchange along the ropes which lasts about a minute and a half)
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Castillo
Round 9: Castillo
Round 10: Castillo

Total: 7-1 Castillo

First let me say this is an outstanding fight but starts sort of slow. Cruz is content to jab the first two and a half rounds and doesn't start to get in there until late in the third. After that it's a great fight. My score looks lopsided, but let me tell you, there are so many close rounds that I can see any number of different scores. I think I heard the offiicial scores as 5-3, 6-2 and 5-4. Just a really good fight.

[crusader]

GGG-Jacobs

1-Jacobs
2-Jacobs
3-Jacobs
4-Golovkin (10-8)
5-Golovkin
6-Jacobs
7-Golovkin
8-Jacobs
9-Golovkin
10-Jacobs
11-Golovkin
12-Jacobs

114-113 Jacobs
Just watched first time. Golovkin did nothing first three rounds. A lot swing rounds I thought 6-8 & 11-12 could have went either way. I have no problem if someone said either guy won. But I can't someone who said no way Jacobs won.

Neither did much in the first 3, and DJ did practically nothing in round one, whereas Golovkin landed a few good jabs.

I had it 115-112 GGG, but dont remember my rbr scoring

[elmersalsa]

I just saw Willie Pastrano vs Harold Johnson fight. It was a boring fight between two technical boxers. A close fight. My scorecard of that fight for the World Light-Heavyweight Championship held by Johnson:

1. Even
2. Even
3. WP
4. WP
5. HJ
6. Even
7. HJ
8. WP
9. HJ
10. WP
11. Even
12. WP
13. HJ
14. HJ
15. WP

Scored it 145-144, Pastrano. I don't know what really happened to Johnson. He was a better fighter than that. Was he gun shy? I don't know. But, he didn't do enough to keep his title. Pastrano didn't do much, but, what he did was enough. Forget about a rematch. I am glad it didn't happened.

[world ranked]

GGG-Jacobs

1-Jacobs
2-Jacobs
3-Jacobs
4-Golovkin (10-8)
5-Golovkin
6-Jacobs
7-Golovkin
8-Jacobs
9-Golovkin
10-Jacobs
11-Golovkin
12-Jacobs

114-113 Jacobs
Just watched first time. Golovkin did nothing first three rounds. A lot swing rounds I thought 6-8 & 11-12 could have went either way. I have no problem if someone said either guy won. But I can't someone who said no way Jacobs won.

Neither did much in the first 3, and DJ did practically nothing in round one, whereas Golovkin landed a few good jabs.

I had it 115-112 GGG, but dont remember my rbr scoring

Fair point went and watched again. You were right those jabs did take the round. So now changing round 1 makes it 114-113 Golovkin

[Seamus]

Kid Gavilan vs Billy Graham

R1.KG 1pt
R2.KG 1pt
R3.KG !pt
R4.KG 1pt
R5.Even
R6.KG 1pt
R7.KG 1pt
R8.Even
R9.Even
R10.BG 1pt
R11.BG 1pt
R12.Even
R13.BG 1pt
R14.KG 1pt
R15.Even

Kid Gavilan 7-3

This was a terrible decisionSD that went to Graham, who spent long periods of the fight looking to counter Gavilan who scored heavily with his excellent jab. Graham probably could have made this a closer fight if he'd have bothered coming forward more while doubling up on his jab, which was good the times he used it, and throwing his right hand. Several rds were close, but if I gave anyone some leeway n the scoring it was Graham.

[scartissue]

Kid Gavilan vs Billy Graham

R1.KG 1pt
R2.KG 1pt
R3.KG !pt
R4.KG 1pt
R5.Even
R6.KG 1pt
R7.KG 1pt
R8.Even
R9.Even
R10.BG 1pt
R11.BG 1pt
R12.Even
R13.BG 1pt
R14.KG 1pt
R15.Even

Kid Gavilan 7-3

This was a terrible decisionSD that went to Graham, who spent long periods of the fight looking to counter Gavilan who scored heavily with his excellent jab. Graham probably could have made this a closer fight if he'd have bothered coming forward more while doubling up on his jab, which was good the times he used it, and throwing his right hand. Several rds were close, but if I gave anyone some leeway n the scoring it was Graham.

Seamus, you might have this confused with another fight. They fought 2 10 rounders and 2 15 rounders. Both 15 rounders were won by Gavilan.

[Seamus]

OK got it. i believe this was the 1st 15 rounder, one judge had it for Graham by a point.

[scartissue]

Seamus, this is actually one of the more controversial fights in the history of boxing. This got so much notoriety at the time with screams of robbery. I looked at what boxrec had written on this fight and it said the AP scored it 7-5-3 for Graham and the UP had it 8-6-1 for Graham with 12 of 15 sports writers polled at ringside scoring it for Graham. But it was a tough fight and like you say Graham should have forced it a bit more. Nevertheless, here is my score.

Kid Gavilan - Billy Graham III

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Gavilan
Round 3: Graham
Round 4: Gavilan
Round 5: Gavilan
Round 6: Graham
Round 7: Gavilan
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Graham
Round 10: Graham
Round 11: Graham
Round 12: Graham
Round 13: Even
Round 14: Graham
Round 15: Graham

8-4-3 Graham

Usually you and I are pretty close to one another. But hey, at least it shows we're not all in lockstep with each other and there is always room for controversy.

[scartissue]

Here's a fight no one seems to have yet tackled, the second fight between Pipino Cuevas and Angel Espada. Here we go

Round 1: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 2: 10-8 Cuevas (Cuevas scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 4: 10-9 Espada
Round 5: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 6: 10-9 Espada
Round 7: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 12: Espada could not answer the bell for the 12th round with a broken jaw

Total through 11 completed rounds - 108-103 Cuevas

Official scores were 106-104 Cuevas, 104-104 Even, 108-106 Espada. Don't know what fight that last official was watching but can't see that one. To begin, Espada really is a beautiful fighter to watch, but he was up against a force of nature in Cuevas. Cuevas will just plug away throwing bombs for however long the fight lasts and couldn't care less if he missed 4 if he could land one. The rounds I gave Espada he fought brilliantly using the ring and going in and out with beautiful counters. And some of those counters would have taken out a lesser man. Amazing that I had 3 consecutive rounds even but that was how the tide was rolling. By the 10th round, although I scored it even more from Espada preventing Cuevas from doing anything, one could see Espada was really coming apart at the seams and it was just a matter of time. Good fight for purists and for those who like a bit of mayhem.

[scartissue]

Kid Gavilan vs Carmen Basilio

R1.1pt KG
R2.2pts CB (Gavilan down from a pair of left hooks)
R3.Even
R4.1pt CB
R5.1pt KG
R6.1pt KG
R7.1pt CB
R8.1pt KG
R9.Even
R10.1pt KG
R11.1pt KG
R12.1pt CB
R13.1pt KG
R14.1pt KG
R15.1pt KG

Kid Gavilan 9-5

Considering the names involved in this bout I expected alot more and ended up a bit disappointed. Both guys showed each other too much respect and the exchanges were nothing special.

Seamus, had a chance to tackle this one today. I'm scoring it on NY rules at the time which was a rounds basis and no extra point for the knockdown in the 2nd round.

Round 1: Gavilan
Round 2: Basilio (Basilio scores a knockdown)
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Basilio
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Basilio
Round 7: Basilio
Round 8: Gavilan
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Gavilan
Round 11: Gavilan
Round 12: Basilio
Round 13: Even
Round 14: Gavilan
Round 15: Gavilan

Total: 6-5-4 Gavilan

You were right. It was a decent fight but nothing scintillating about it. Very, very close. Man, 4 even rounds was a lot but I don't like that flip of a coin style of judging. That penalizes the one fighter. We agreed completely on 12 rounds, there were 2 more even rounds and we only disagreed on the 6th round.

[scartissue]

Thought I would give the first Ali-Norton fight a go here. California scoring.

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Norton
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Norton
Round 5: Norton
Round 6: Norton
Round 7: Ali
Round 8: Ali
Round 9: Norton
Round 10: Norton
Round 11: Ali
Round 12: Norton

Total: 7-5 Norton (In rounds and on points)

Haven't looked at this since I saw it live in '73. There was always the usual dispute of what the round the jaw-break took place. The Ali corner said it was the first round. The Norton corner said it was the 12th. But it was interesting to hear Cosell say in the 8th that there was something wrong with Ali's mouth and surmised it might be a broken tooth. Didn't remember that from the original telecast, so it could have taken place anywhere around mid-fight.

[Seamus]

Sandy Saddler vs Flash Elorde II

Did I ever score this one different from the judges and the newspapers. I gave Saddler the 5th, and had the 2nd, 11th, and 12th even for a score under California state rules (you divide 11 pts in a round) of 69.5 to 62.5 for Flash Elorde when the fight was stopped after the 12th due to Elorde's badly cut left eye. Elorde totally outboxed Saddler,sticking and moving, jabbing effectively and peppering the stronger man with frequent 4 punch combinations. Saddler got away with alot of holding and hitting, but was bleeding badly from the nose by the 9th.

[scartissue]

Seamus, hang on one sec. I have often heard of this 11 point system employed at the time in California. Actually they referred to it many times as the Australian 11 point system where it was first adopted. Anyways, explain this to me. Am I right that there are 11 points that require dividing? So a close round would be 6-5? Is that right? I noticed you used fractions in your score. Run this past me, will you.

[Seamus]

The winner typically get's the rd 6-5, an even rd would be 5.5 to 5.5, and a knockdown I'm assuming is 6.5 to 4.5. For a time in the mid 60's, Argentina had what I believed was a 20 pt must system. I really don't see them as being better than the 10 pt must.

[scartissue]

Watching the Ali-Norton I fight the other night, I couldn't help but notice Cosell's confusion with the California system employed after the days of the 11 point system. It was quite simple. 1 point for a round, 2 points if one scores a knockdown or batters his opponent and no points for an even round. As Bill O'Neill, a great west coast writer once told me, "It's the same as the 10 point must system used today, only less math." And if you make a comparison to a known scorecard from a latter day fight, you'll see he was absolutely right.

[Seamus]

Sandy Saddler vs Charley Riley

R1.5-4 CR
R2.5-4 CR
R3.5-4 SS
R4.5-5
R5.5-4 CR
R6.5-5
R7.5-4 SS
R8.5-4 SS
R9.5-5
R10.5-5

47-47 Draw

Official scores in this fight were 53-47 and 56-44 for Saddler and one judge had it 50-50 indicating he scored all 10 rounds EVEN ! and some people think I'm bad

[Seamus]

Forgot this one
Carlos Ortiz vs Battling Torres

R1.10-9 CO
R2.10-9 CO
R3.10-9 CO
R4.10-9 BT
R5.10-10
R6.10-10
R7.10-9 BT
R8.10-10
R9.10-9

Carlos Ortiz KO 10 as Torres just fails to beat the count after getting dropped by a flurry to the head.

[Seamus]

Sorry about that, I gave Ortiz the 9th rd and had him ahead 88-86 (4-2-3) at the time of the KO.

[scartissue]

OK, here's a bout that I think I'm going to get a lot of people miffed at me, only because of the controversy surrounding this decision. I am talking about the Oscar DeLaHoya-Felix Sturm middleweight bout. I went into this totally expecting the robbery I have been hearing about for years (BTW, I never saw this bout. Missed it when it was aired live). I was ready to say before this fight that it was a Vegas decision to set up Oscar and Hopkins. I watched the British telecast on youtube with Jim Watt giving the blow-by-blow and his scorecard. Here is mine.

Round 1: 10-9 ODLH
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 ODLH
Round 4: 10-9 ODLH
Round 5: 10-9 Sturm
Round 6: 10-9 ODLH
Round 7: 10-9 Sturm
Round 8: 10-9 ODLH
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Sturm
Round 11: 10-9 Sturm
Round 12: 10-9 ODLH

Total: 116-114 ODLH

Official scorecards were 115-113 for Oscar by all three judges. Watt and Harold Lederman (I checked the end of the HBO telecast to see Harold's card) both had it 115-113 for Sturm. But is this the end of the story? I checked both of Watt's and Harold's scorecards and even though they had the same score, they disagreed on 8 rounds. Seriously, they only agreed on 4 rounds of that entire fight with one person going for Oscar and the other for Sturm and vice-versa. That will tell you the tightness in these rounds. I felt the fight was there for Sturm as I watched, but I do not feel he imposed anything on DeLaHoya who was ripe for the plucking. When Sturm threw punches he was accurate, but I don't think he threw enough. I felt Oscar was far busier and even though Sturm was the stronger of the two, he did not make it a physical match and stood back waiting on Oscar so he could counter. it was infuriating seeing this being handed to him and IMO unwilling to take it. I'd love to hear multiple views on this and I don't think we're going to be in unison on anything because personal criteria seems to be prominent regarding this fight.

[scartissue]

Just checked out a couple of controversial Scott LeDoux fights. Now, to begin, I never liked Scott LeDoux. I always felt he couldn't box, punch, duck and never really had the physical shape of a fighter. But I got to give him credit, the man had sheer guts and if you didn't bring your A-game, then the boogey-man was paying you a visit. Here we go against Ken Norton and Ron Lyle. Both of whom were past their primes but should not be a mark against LeDoux who came to fight.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Norton
Round 3: 10-9 LeDoux
Round 4: 10-9 Norton
Round 5: 10-9 Norton
Round 6: 10-9 Norton
Round 7: 10-9 Norton
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 LeDoux
Round 10: 10-7 LeDoux (2 knockdowns)

Total: 95-95 Draw

Norton was coming apart at the seams by the 8th round and despite the confusion in the 10th, LeDoux scored 2 knockdowns and to tell you the truth the fight should have been stopped. But it is what it is. Official scores were 95-94 Norton, 95-94 LeDoux and 95-95. I thought the draw was a good call, but I'm sure LeDoux felt hard done by. There was mayhem, he thought the fight was stopped but it went to the cards.

Ron Lyle v Scott LeDoux (5 point must system)

Round 1: 5-4 LeDoux
Round 2: 5-5- Even
Round 3: 5-3 LeDoux (LeDoux scored a knockdown and to tell you the truth, if anyone scores it 5-2 in his favor I wouldn't bat an eye because he battered Lyle the rest of the round)
Round 4: 5-4 Lyle
Round 5: 5-4 Lyle
Round 6: 5-4 LeDoux
Round 7: 5-4 Lyle
Round 8: 5-4 Lyle
Round 9: 5-4 LeDoux
Round 10: 5-5 Even

Total: 46-45 LeDoux

Official scores were 46-45 and 45-44 for Lyle and 45-44 for LeDoux for a split decision in Lyle's favor. I'm curious how the rest of you saw that 3rd round. Would you go 5-3 or 5-2?

[Seamus]

Marlon Starling vs Mark Breland I

R1.10-10
R2.10-9 MB
R3.10-9 MS
R4.10-9 MB
R5.10-9 MB
R6.10-8 MB (1pt taken from Starling for a pushdown)
R7.10-9 MS
R8.10-9 MS
R9.10-9 MS
R10.10-10

Marlon Starling KO 11 (96-95 Breland at the time)

This is one of my alltime feel good fights, because for 10 rds, referee Tony Perez and the 3 judges, who had Mark "He has the tools to be the greatest ever in his sport" Breland ahead by 5-8-10 pts !, did everything they could to prevent Marlon Starling from winning a title, until Moochie took matters into his own hands in the 11th, by dropping Breland with a left hook to the head after a flurry, for the count.

[scartissue]

Seamus, this is a good subject. I will have to see this one again and the drawn rematch. I agree, networks really favored Breland and didn't want to lose their golden goose. I felt he was protected as far back as his bout with Troy Wortham. Don't know if it's out there on youtube, but I did have it taped back in the VHS days. There was one point of that fight that really annoyed me. It was early in the fight, maybe the 3rd round or so, can't remember. But it was at the end of the round and Breland started to put Wortham under pressure with a flurry - but the bell did not ring. I was yelling at the TV set when they wouldn't ring the bell. But then Wortham lashed out with a solid counter left hook and of course, the bell then rang. I was yelling what a protected fighter he was and I must have looked a sight doing that. But it really grinds my gears when I see them wrapped in cotton wool.