Country with the second best heavyweights in history

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Mar 2006, 22:07

I inputed the top 3 for each country from boxrec. For the Brits, Frank Bruno may be better known to most than Erskine, for Canada Berbick tells me more than Gains or Cleroux, and for Argentina Firpo more than Peralta and Mirteff.

Sweden (Johannson), Spain (Uzcudun), Cuba (Valdes), South Africa (Coetzee) and Australia (Bugner) had really only one world class fighter, thus I didn't list them.

Overall the Brits seem to have the edge, with the Germans a close second (or better: third...)

P

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 19 Mar 2006, 17:25

pundit wrote:I inputed the top 3 for each country from boxrec. For the Brits, Frank Bruno may be better known to most than Erskine, for Canada Berbick tells me more than Gains or Cleroux, and for Argentina Firpo more than Peralta and Mirteff.

Sweden (Johannson), Spain (Uzcudun), Cuba (Valdes), South Africa (Coetzee) and Australia (Bugner) had really only one world class fighter, thus I didn't list them.

Overall the Brits seem to have the edge, with the Germans a close second (or better: third...)

P

bugner, though born in hungary was british too, it was only after his `original` career finished that he took australian citizenship.
also recent fighters like danny williams, henry akinwande and herbie hide whilst not worldbeaters by any stretch of the imagination do show a certain amount of strength in depth (i use this term in the loosest possible sense).
add to this britains influence from the 1700`s to the late 1800`s (cribb, mace, fitzsimmons etc) and we must be in with a shout of pinching the second spot.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Mar 2006, 17:38

headhunter wrote:
pundit wrote:I inputed the top 3 for each country from boxrec. For the Brits, Frank Bruno may be better known to most than Erskine, for Canada Berbick tells me more than Gains or Cleroux, and for Argentina Firpo more than Peralta and Mirteff.

Sweden (Johannson), Spain (Uzcudun), Cuba (Valdes), South Africa (Coetzee) and Australia (Bugner) had really only one world class fighter, thus I didn't list them.

Overall the Brits seem to have the edge, with the Germans a close second (or better: third...)

P
bugner, though born in hungary was british too, it was only after his `original` career finished that he took australian citizenship.
also recent fighters like danny williams, henry akinwande and herbie hide whilst not worldbeaters by any stretch of the imagination do show a certain amount of strength in depth (i use this term in the loosest possible sense).
add to this britains influence from the 1700`s to the late 1800`s (cribb, mace, fitzsimmons etc) and we must be in with a shout of pinching the second spot.

I also lean towards the Brits overall. However, when I compiled this yesterday I was honestly surprised about the long-standing dominance of the US at heavyweights. On boxrec's al time list, the top 14 are US American. And there are no more than 4 non-US fighters - Lennox Lewis, Max Schmeling, Ingemar Johansson, Vitali Klitschko (well, perhaps Primo Carnera, but he was never taken quite seriously) - who may have been considered the #1 heavyweight for a certain period.

P

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 19 Mar 2006, 17:49

pundit wrote:
headhunter wrote:
pundit wrote:I inputed the top 3 for each country from boxrec. For the Brits, Frank Bruno may be better known to most than Erskine, for Canada Berbick tells me more than Gains or Cleroux, and for Argentina Firpo more than Peralta and Mirteff.

Sweden (Johannson), Spain (Uzcudun), Cuba (Valdes), South Africa (Coetzee) and Australia (Bugner) had really only one world class fighter, thus I didn't list them.

Overall the Brits seem to have the edge, with the Germans a close second (or better: third...)

P
bugner, though born in hungary was british too, it was only after his `original` career finished that he took australian citizenship.
also recent fighters like danny williams, henry akinwande and herbie hide whilst not worldbeaters by any stretch of the imagination do show a certain amount of strength in depth (i use this term in the loosest possible sense).
add to this britains influence from the 1700`s to the late 1800`s (cribb, mace, fitzsimmons etc) and we must be in with a shout of pinching the second spot.
I also lean towards the Brits overall. However, when I compiled this yesterday I was honestly surprised about the long-standing dominance of the US at heavyweights. On boxrec's al time list, the top 14 are US American. And there are no more than 4 non-US fighters - Lennox Lewis, Max Schmeling, Ingemar Johansson, Vitali Klitschko (well, perhaps Primo Carnera, but he was never taken quite seriously) - who may have been considered the #1 heavyweight for a certain period.

P

i think for the best part of the last century that the average american weighed more than the average brit or for that matter european, and dont forget we brits were on food rations into the mid 50`s!!
it wasnt that common to see a 6ft - 200lb man in the street years ago where as everyone seems to be that size these days.
the iron curtain probably prevented one or two eastern european champs comming through and challenging for the title but to be fair america produced some top quality fighters in louis, marciano and ali who would have given anyone all they could handle.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Mar 2006, 12:22

The two Ukraine votes I find a little suprising - Vlad/Vitali are hardly in the same league as Lennox/Schmeling; even though one may argue that the Ukraine has the relatively best #2.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 20 Mar 2006, 12:23

pundit wrote:The two Ukraine votes I find a little suprising - Vlad/Vitali are hardly in the same league as Lennox/Schmeling; even though one may argue that the Ukraine has the relatively best #2.

It's because people are more familiar with the Ukrainian boxers than they are with many of the others. They're more recent and fresh in the mind as Schmeling was many moons ago.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 20 Mar 2006, 12:25

I would have Canada slightly head of the UK

Canada

Lewis
Chuvalo
Berbick

UK

Cooper
Bugner
Bruno

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 20 Mar 2006, 12:26

Interesting about the weight thing. I think our population (Brits) are more suited to weletr/middleweight. I think thats our natural build

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Mar 2006, 12:27

KO Artist wrote:I would have Canada slightly head of the UK

Canada

Lewis
Chuvalo
Berbick

UK

Cooper
Bugner
Bruno

Turning Lewis back into a Canadian changes things, that's for sure.
P

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 20 Mar 2006, 14:28

pundit wrote:
KO Artist wrote:I would have Canada slightly head of the UK

Canada

Lewis
Chuvalo
Berbick

UK

Cooper
Bugner
Bruno
Turning Lewis back into a Canadian changes things, that's for sure.
P

yeah there is a bit of a paradox there, lewis was born in london and lived there until the age of 13/14 whilst big frank bruno was actually born in the west indies but came over to britain at a very young age.
the british fans actually took to the fella born outside britain more.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 20 Mar 2006, 16:11

Ireland has one Hall of Famer in Tom Sharkey and two top contenders in Peter Maher and Jim Coffey.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Mar 2006, 16:42

Nero3000 wrote:Ireland has one Hall of Famer in Tom Sharkey and two top contenders in Peter Maher and Jim Coffey.

Not to forget 33-4-1 Kevin McBride...

Just joking. I thought of including Ireland, however, Sharkey was a light-heavyweight according to today's standards; and all these fighters were big before boxing turned into the fully preofessional business that it is today (in the 1920s).

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 20 Mar 2006, 17:50

pundit wrote:
Nero3000 wrote:Ireland has one Hall of Famer in Tom Sharkey and two top contenders in Peter Maher and Jim Coffey.
Not to forget 33-4-1 Kevin McBride...

Jost joking. I thought of including Ireland, however, Sharkey was a light-heavyweight according to today's standards; and all these fighters were big before boxing turned into the fully preofessional business that it is today (in the 1920s).

More of a cruiserweight actually. On average he was about 185 lbs. At 5'8 that makes him like a sherman tank*s*

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 20 Mar 2006, 22:01

Isn't this like being valedictorian at night school?

barry · Post by **barry** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:19

It's almost like some Aussies, a clueless sect, who try to claim Bob Fitzsimmons and Tszyu as Austrailan, but difference there is that Lewis was born in England, so they the right to claim Lewis, but then again reality and knowledge has never been one of your strong points there ColonCleanse2000!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:24

barry wrote:It's almost like some Aussies, a clueless sect, who try to claim Bob Fitzsimmons and Tszyu as Austrailan, but difference there is that Lewis was born in England, so they the right to claim Lewis, but then again reality and knowledge has never been one of your strong points there ColonCleanse2000!

Not everywhere can people be as wise and wordly as in North Tazewell.
P

barry · Post by **barry** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:38

>>>Not everywhere can people be as wise and wordly as in North Tazewell.<<<

That's life! No need to be bitter about it!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:44

barry wrote:>>>Not everywhere can people be as wise and wordly as in North Tazewell.<<<

That's life! No need to be bitter about it!

In serious, why do you make sweeping demeaning statements without even having been provoked? They statements don't affect me, but having been a foreigner myself, I've grown senstitive to such stuff.

P

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:08

Pundit---If you think that I am just attacking Coloncleanse2000 without any provoking, well, as usual, it just shows what you really don’t know about it, but as usual, you speak up without knowing what you are talking about, so in response I ask this...why do some of you whine so much about things that you are more guilty of than I am..Hmmm? What kind of excuse do you have? I have never just blatantly come after you, but here you are, just like any other, coming after me without any provoking toward you whatsoever. Now I could just attack you without any thought to what I say and I would not make any excuse about it, but a couple of days from now you would be whining and crying that I started shit with you, which seems to be the usual thing some of you do. What you need is to take a big look in the mirror while reading the definition of the term hypocrite!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:20

barry wrote:Pundit---If you think that I am just attacking Coloncleanse2000 without any provoking, well, as usual, it just shows what you really don’t know about it, but as usual, you speak up without knowing what you are talking about, so in response I ask this...why do some of you whine so much about things that you are more guilty of than I am..Hmmm? What kind of excuse do you have? I have never just blatantly come after you, but here you are, just like any other, coming after me without any provoking toward you whatsoever. Now I could just attack you without any thought to what I say and I would not make any excuse about it, but a couple of days from now you would be whining and crying that I started shit with you, which seems to be the usual thing some of you do. What you need is to take a big look in the mirror while reading the definition of the term hypocrite!

Someboyd's juvenile hormons are getting into disorder yet again....

Mate, you invaded my thread making sweeping, demeaning comments about Aussies - not about any poster in particular. And by doing so you bring my thread on to the downward slope - and not for the first time.

Thus, I am entitled to ask what drives you to do this. What is it?

Btw, if you've nothing to offer to the topic "country with the second best heavyweights in history", be so kind and just bugger off.

Cheers, P

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:24

>>>Mate, you invaded my thread making sweeping, demeaning comments about Aussies<<<

So that is your excuse...typical, but I knew you would have one...I just expect it to be so lame!

Besides, I said some Aussies, not all Aussie, which I am sure the intelligent Aussies would have seen when they first read it...just like I could say some American's are idiots...only the clueless would not understand!

Pay better attention when reading and try to get some better excuses, but thank you for proving my point! Now you are really crying things and insulting a mile a minute...really mature there pundito! Now maybe you and coloncleanse2000 can become buddies, you share the same intelligence, so that should be enough in common!

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:33

By the way...my first post was very on topic...it wasn't until you started whining about things that it starts to go in the downward slope! Again, I suggest you break out a dictionary and mull over the word "hypocrite."

Also, maybe you should be a little more receptive toward other people’s opinion...that, or grow up and learn how to control your anger when everyone does not fit into your small little view of the world!

If you don’t like difference in you’re threads, then stop posting!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:36

barry wrote:By the way...my first post was very on topic...it wasn't until you started whining about things that it starts to go in the downward slope! Again, I suggest you break out a dictionary and mull over the word "hypocrite."

Also, maybe you should be a little more receptive toward other people’s opinion...that, or grow up and learn how to control your anger when everyone does not fit into your small little view of the world!

If you don’t like difference in you’re threads, then stop posting!

Shouldn't minors be in bed at this hour?

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:39

You're still up aren't you?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Mar 2006, 00:43

Canada

Lewis
Chuvalo
Berbick

also add earl walls to that list. a fine heavyweight in his own right, who retired at just 27 years old. but he was well on his way to a title shot vs rocky and suddenly he retired. walls was a very good puncher.

larry gains was one of the best heavyweights never to win a title, add him to the list. he was one of the highly avoided black fighters of his day.

canadians have a strong crop it seems