GGG vs James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, and Roy Jones at MW

[Kalan]

Toney UD GGG
Jones UD GGG
Hopkins MD GGG

This seems like a realistic option!

Yall must have ferg'ot

GGG UD Toney
GGG KO Jones
GGG UK Hopkins

Yall musta forgot.. Those 3 lost of bunch of fights to mediocre fighters... Triple G never lost.

[Kalan]

Another factor people seem to be overlooking with Hearns is that some of his wins are against guys above their optimal weights. The version of Duran that Hearns beat was still among the best fighters at that weight but far more beatable than he was at 135 or 147. There are fighters regarded as good but not great who would be favored to beat the Duran Hearns faced. He had already lost to Kirkland Laing by this stage.

Hearns almost decapitated Duran. Duran has just given Hagler all he could over 15 rounds at 160. Pretty sure Duran could fight at 154. Duran was giving Pazienza and Camacho trouble 10 years later. Duran still had a lot left. That was major win for Hearns.

Not sure who else was supposed to be above their optimal weights that Hearns beat.

Duran was made to order for Hearns' height, reach, and the arch of his power shots... He was as optimal an opponent as Patterson was for Liston... Frazier was for Foreman... Hatton was for Pacquiao... Jackson was for McCallum... and Spinks was for Tyson ... Sometimes it's too damned easy.

[Keko]

This seems like a realistic option!

Yall must have ferg'ot

GGG UD Toney
GGG KO Jones
GGG UK Hopkins

Yall musta forgot.. Those 3 lost of bunch of fights to mediocre fighters... Triple G never lost.

sure

[elmersalsa]

Mosley, Pacquiao, and Mayweather were not smaller than him. If you are going to do crap about a fighter always being at their beginning weigh thing, then you can't count the Hopkins fight because Hopkins was bigger than him. He was past it by the time he fought Pac and Mayweather anyway. He was competitive against Mosley and Mayweather. Should have got the decision in the Mosley rematch.

He got hosed against Trinidad.

If you are going to try to pretend that he wasn't past his best when he fought Mayweather and Pacquiao , then you have to count the Whitaker and Chavez wins and pretend they were at their best.

You can't have it both ways.

Mosley jumped 2 weight classes to beat ODLH. Tito didn't beat Oscar in my view. I believe that Oscar won the fight, but, he didn't close the show like Mosley did against him. None of the 3 are top 100 ATG pound per pound boxers in my view.

Oscar vs Pretty Boy Floyd, well Oscar had the weight, reach, height and more experienced than Floyd, and lost BIG TIME!
Oscar was not in the same slate of Sweet Pea. Oscar was fresher at the time. With Pacman? Well, again. He had all the physical advantages against Manny. He got the whupping of his life.

Winning lots of world crowns in different weight classes these days don't mean much. Oscar clearly lost THE BIGGEST FIGHTS AT THE BIGGEST STAGES. With the great Bernard Hopkins? Well, he did some extraordinary theatrics right there. I don't if it was for best comedy or drama. He didn't fool me with those theatrics.

Too many champions that supposed to be in the top 100 couldn't make it. It's a special selected group. Of these generation of fighters, the ones that enter in my book:
Floyd Mayweather, Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones, Jr
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
And maybe, a possible maybe, but it could be arguable, Erik "El Terrible" Morales. I don't have a problem if someone says he's top 100 ATG pound per pound boxer.

But, these fighters?
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Naseem Hamed
Lennox Lewis
Felix "Tito" Trinidad

No, I don't see them making it. There are other great boxers like Jack Delaney, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Billy Petrolle, Mysterious Billy Smith, Lou Ambers, for example, in my view, were better than Oscar De La Hoya.

[Cojimar 1946]

For example if De La Hoya had gotten the decision in the fight with Trinidad I would think that win would probably match the best win on Hearns resume.

[Kalan]

Mosley jumped 2 weight classes to beat ODLH. Tito didn't beat Oscar in my view. I believe that Oscar won the fight, but, he didn't close the show like Mosley did against him. None of the 3 are top 100 ATG pound per pound boxers in my view.

Oscar vs Pretty Boy Floyd, well Oscar had the weight, reach, height and more experienced than Floyd, and lost BIG TIME!
Oscar was not in the same slate of Sweet Pea. Oscar was fresher at the time. With Pacman? Well, again. He had all the physical advantages against Manny. He got the whupping of his life.

Winning lots of world crowns in different weight classes these days don't mean much. Oscar clearly lost THE BIGGEST FIGHTS AT THE BIGGEST STAGES. With the great Bernard Hopkins? Well, he did some extraordinary theatrics right there. I don't if it was for best comedy or drama

Mosley beat Oscar twice and won the last 5 rounds of the rematch with no question.. I scored it exactly as the 3 judges did.. Shane took the 1st round with a big punch and landed better in 7 rounds where his was the aggressor and drove De La Hoya back with sharper punches.. I had Trinidad beating Oscar 114-113. I had Trinidad earning a 2-point round in the 12th by Oscar running full tilt and getting ripped with big right hands through the round. Oscar ran desperately to avert a KO shot from Tito. Oscar definitely won 6 rounds and I was sure he would win it after the 9th. But he gave away the last 3 rounds, especially the 12th. He had the fight all but locked up. Jerry Roth gave Oscar the 12th and definitely had a goofy scorecard. His scorecard didn't get that way by accident. I never trusted Jerry Roth, Duane Ford, Ken Morita, Donald Givens, Lisa Giampa, Paul Smith, Dave Moretti, CJ Ross and some other judges. It's not their final scorecards that bother me. It's some of the rounds they scored that make no sense. There's judges out there who are for sale. The payoffs for corrupt judges are fairly modest and won't effect their life styles in a major way. That's why they'll likely never be caught.

I was rooting for Sweet Pea Whitaker but I did give Oscar that fight.. That was no knockdown and Oscar did better work and landed better throughout.. That was a big win for Oscar's career and he did well.. But you're right, Oscar took a dive to save his ass from a Trinidad type beating against Hopkins. He was starting run and getting ripped big time when he went into his canvas pounding AAAARRRRRUUUUUUUUGGGHHHH moment.. If you want to continue you try to get up.. You don't use your remaining strength to slug the canvas in frustration.. It was a LMFAO moment at Oscar's antics.

I thought De La Hoya was an idiot agreeing to meet Pacquiao at Welterweight. Even though he did it in stages and reduced to 150 for his previous fight against Steve Forbes...but he looked tapped out at 150. Like he couldn't go lower. One extra pound you can manage, but I knew those last 3 pounds were going to kill him. You're reducing muscle and bone because you change your body when you add muscle and size. You have to do nothing for 6 months and let that muscle dissipate slowly and atrophy naturally. Kell Brook is going to be weak versus Spence. No possible way can Kell pull off that weight reduction and be strong enough for Errol Spence. He changed his body for the GGG fight and you can't put the Genie back into the bottle that quickly.

[Ambling Alp II]

Mosley, Pacquiao, and Mayweather were not smaller than him. If you are going to do crap about a fighter always being at their beginning weigh thing, then you can't count the Hopkins fight because Hopkins was bigger than him. He was past it by the time he fought Pac and Mayweather anyway. He was competitive against Mosley and Mayweather. Should have got the decision in the Mosley rematch.

He got hosed against Trinidad.

If you are going to try to pretend that he wasn't past his best when he fought Mayweather and Pacquiao , then you have to count the Whitaker and Chavez wins and pretend they were at their best.

You can't have it both ways.

Mosley jumped 2 weight classes to beat ODLH. Tito didn't beat Oscar in my view. I believe that Oscar won the fight, but, he didn't close the show like Mosley did against him. None of the 3 are top 100 ATG pound per pound boxers in my view.

Oscar vs Pretty Boy Floyd, well Oscar had the weight, reach, height and more experienced than Floyd, and lost BIG TIME!
Oscar was not in the same slate of Sweet Pea. Oscar was fresher at the time. With Pacman? Well, again. He had all the physical advantages against Manny. He got the whupping of his life.

Winning lots of world crowns in different weight classes these days don't mean much. Oscar clearly lost THE BIGGEST FIGHTS AT THE BIGGEST STAGES. With the great Bernard Hopkins? Well, he did some extraordinary theatrics right there. I don't if it was for best comedy or drama. He didn't fool me with those theatrics.

Too many champions that supposed to be in the top 100 couldn't make it. It's a special selected group. Of these generation of fighters, the ones that enter in my book:
Floyd Mayweather, Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones, Jr
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
And maybe, a possible maybe, but it could be arguable, Erik "El Terrible" Morales. I don't have a problem if someone says he's top 100 ATG pound per pound boxer.

But, these fighters?
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Naseem Hamed
Lennox Lewis
Felix "Tito" Trinidad

No, I don't see them making it. There are other great boxers like Jack Delaney, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Billy Petrolle, Mysterious Billy Smith, Lou Ambers, for example, in my view, were better than Oscar De La Hoya.

elmer, I never know whether to bang my head against the wall or laugh at you.

Do you realize that De La Hoya was older against Pacquio and Mayweather than Chavez and Whitaker were when they fought him?

Chavez was 33 in the first fight against De La Hoya.
Whitaker was 33 when he fought De La Hoya.
De La Hoya was 34 when he fought Mayweather.
De La Hoya was 35 when he fought Pacquio.

Try connecting the dots for once.
You either count all of these fights or none of them. You can't count the losses against De la hoya when he was past it and then make excuses for his opponents that they were too old when they were younger than DLH was in his losses.

You say Mosley fought two weight classes above his original weight when he fought de La Hoya.
Guess what? De La Hoya was up three weight classes when he fought Mosley. He was a Jr Light weight champion at one time.
Again connect the dots.

He had all the physical advantages against Pacquio? Wow. Do you realize that DLH had not been down the the welterweight level in 7 years? And again, he was 35 years old.

You have Mysterious Billy Smith in your Top 100? Wouldn't put him in my Top 1000. He was better than De La Hoya? The guy won less than half of his fights. Wow. I mean wow.

[Ossyrules]

Only scanned page 1 of this long thread, stopped reading after all the calls that he'd beat Roy jones. Absolutely no chance.

Roy was incredible fighter in his day forget the shot to bits stoppages late on. Absolutely outstanding fighter, the fighter of his generation. He outpounts ggg 9/10 for me

Toney is the favourite to beat ggg also but he is prone to a few lazy camps etc. On the assumption he's fit and ready, his elusive game is the best style match up to beat ggg out if all these 3.

Hopkins, is probably the most even match. His ability to spoil gives him a very good chance in this fight. I'd say it's 50/50 but if pressed I favour Hopkins. I can picture ways for both in this match up

[Kalan]

Chavez was 33 in the first fight against De La Hoya.
Whitaker was 33 when he fought De La Hoya.
De La Hoya was 34 when he fought Mayweather.
De La Hoya was 35 when he fought Pacquio

All of them were in prime career fights... 33 is still dead in your prime... Unless you had 350 amateur fights and have been in the game forever. All that fighting and training for many years does wear you down if you started when you were 6... Even if you had 100 amateur fights and are fresh, you may be on the down-slope physically by 35... That generally won't matter because your improved technical skills and mastery you'll achieve by 35 will pretty much zero out any physical declines you experience until you reach 38 or so.

You possibly could go longer, depending on genetics and how much you get hit -- because the human head wasn't designed to take endless punishment. As far as the number of professional fights you have it doesn't matter unless you had 300 fights like Harry Greb. Somebody like Ray Robinson, Willie Pep, or Archie Moore who had over 200 fights -- a lot of those fights are like sparring sessions with low level opponents. They don't mean anything. Unknown opponents with poor skills, who are just there to pad your record and punch another payday aren't going to reach you. They're not going to hurt you. Anthony Joshua is already taking down 10 to 20 million a fight so no need to run around fighting Billy Boo from Kalamazoo.

If you have a life style like Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, or Sugar Ray Robinson, that effects your game also. All that night life, drinking, and getting tapped by babes left and right will impact your career. Holyfield didn't drink but he did get tapped. He went a lot longer than Tyson so boozing it up and coking it up are not good things while you can get away with chasing a fair amount of tail - if doesn't lead to supporting a dozen kids or more.

[elmersalsa]

Mosley, Pacquiao, and Mayweather were not smaller than him. If you are going to do crap about a fighter always being at their beginning weigh thing, then you can't count the Hopkins fight because Hopkins was bigger than him. He was past it by the time he fought Pac and Mayweather anyway. He was competitive against Mosley and Mayweather. Should have got the decision in the Mosley rematch.

He got hosed against Trinidad.

If you are going to try to pretend that he wasn't past his best when he fought Mayweather and Pacquiao , then you have to count the Whitaker and Chavez wins and pretend they were at their best.

You can't have it both ways.

Mosley jumped 2 weight classes to beat ODLH. Tito didn't beat Oscar in my view. I believe that Oscar won the fight, but, he didn't close the show like Mosley did against him. None of the 3 are top 100 ATG pound per pound boxers in my view.

Oscar vs Pretty Boy Floyd, well Oscar had the weight, reach, height and more experienced than Floyd, and lost BIG TIME!
Oscar was not in the same slate of Sweet Pea. Oscar was fresher at the time. With Pacman? Well, again. He had all the physical advantages against Manny. He got the whupping of his life.

Winning lots of world crowns in different weight classes these days don't mean much. Oscar clearly lost THE BIGGEST FIGHTS AT THE BIGGEST STAGES. With the great Bernard Hopkins? Well, he did some extraordinary theatrics right there. I don't if it was for best comedy or drama. He didn't fool me with those theatrics.

Too many champions that supposed to be in the top 100 couldn't make it. It's a special selected group. Of these generation of fighters, the ones that enter in my book:
Floyd Mayweather, Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones, Jr
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
And maybe, a possible maybe, but it could be arguable, Erik "El Terrible" Morales. I don't have a problem if someone says he's top 100 ATG pound per pound boxer.

But, these fighters?
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Naseem Hamed
Lennox Lewis
Felix "Tito" Trinidad

No, I don't see them making it. There are other great boxers like Jack Delaney, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Billy Petrolle, Mysterious Billy Smith, Lou Ambers, for example, in my view, were better than Oscar De La Hoya.

elmer, I never know whether to bang my head against the wall or laugh at you.

Do you realize that De La Hoya was older against Pacquio and Mayweather than Chavez and Whitaker were when they fought him?

Chavez was 33 in the first fight against De La Hoya.
Whitaker was 33 when he fought De La Hoya.
De La Hoya was 34 when he fought Mayweather.
De La Hoya was 35 when he fought Pacquio.

Try connecting the dots for once.
You either count all of these fights or none of them. You can't count the losses against De la hoya when he was past it and then make excuses for his opponents that they were too old when they were younger than DLH was in his losses.

You say Mosley fought two weight classes above his original weight when he fought de La Hoya.
Guess what? De La Hoya was up three weight classes when he fought Mosley. He was a Jr Light weight champion at one time.
Again connect the dots.

He had all the physical advantages against Pacquio? Wow. Do you realize that DLH had not been down the the welterweight level in 7 years? And again, he was 35 years old.

You have Mysterious Billy Smith in your Top 100? Wouldn't put him in my Top 1000. He was better than De La Hoya? The guy won less than half of his fights. Wow. I mean wow.

Mysterious Billy Smith is a consideration for top 100 ATG pound per pound greats. He is not in my list. It's just an example of fighters that didn't make it in my view. Others like Floyd Patterson, Flash Elorde, Nino Benvenutti, Jem Driscoll, Owen Moran, Harold Johnson and Cocoa Kid for example, to me, were better than Oscar De La Hoya in my view.

If Oscar would have beaten Trinidad, He would have been probably inside the top 100. But, He DEFINITELY FLUNK BIG TIME in a fight of that magnitude.

De La Hoya was 34 against Floyd. He was not all that shopworn like when the greats Julio Cesar Chavez and Pernell Whitaker fought against him. Plus, he had weight, reach and height advantages against someone that was fighting at 154lbs for the first time.

With Manny? Let's give you that one. Oscar was out of it and it showed that it was time to retire. Well, how about losing to Sugar Shane? He shouldn't lose to him. Mosley went up 2 weight classes and beat him. But the fights that he should have won to be called a great fighter, he lost: Tito, Sugar Shane and PBF.

[nikos6]

This seems like a realistic option!

Yall must have ferg'ot

GGG UD Toney
GGG KO Jones
GGG UK Hopkins

Yall musta forgot.. Those 3 lost of bunch of fights to mediocre fighters... Triple G never lost.

Can you elaborate as to how these fights might play out Kalan?

Toney with a great chin, great defense, and good power would stand a great chance of winning. He can fight on the inside, and if Kassim Ouma can give GGG trouble on the inside, so can James Toney - combined with his toughness and skill set is superior to Kassim Ouma's tools.

Jones obviously had that ridiculously quick initial burst/punch that might catch GGG on the way in. Isn't it feasible to think he can take the Danny Jacobs approach at worst, but instead land a cleaner and harder counter punch that would deter GGG from coming in? If he can make James Toney look slow, why can't he school GGG on the outside, and maybe get him on the way in?

[Kalan]

Toney with a great chin, great defense, and good power would stand a great chance of winning. He can fight on the inside, and if Kassim Ouma can give GGG trouble on the inside, so can James Toney - combined with his toughness and skill set is superior to Kassim Ouma's tools.

Jones obviously had that ridiculously quick initial burst/punch that might catch GGG on the way in. Isn't it feasible to think he can take the Danny Jacobs approach at worst, but instead land a cleaner and harder counter punch that would deter GGG from coming in? If he can make James Toney look slow, why can't he school GGG on the outside, and maybe get him on the way in?

Golovkin spend 21 hours in airports preceding the Ouma fight as flights were delayed. He was dog tired when he entered the ring with Ouma, and that's why he looks a little under-the-weather for that fight.. Despite that he was the first guy in over 10 years to KO Ouma... Obviously Jermain Taylor, Vanes Martirosyan, Gabe Rosado and many others couldn't knock Ouma out.. Golovkin was killing him.

A prime Roy Jones was knocked right on his ass by light hitting Lou Del Valle... and obviously Roy was knocked out when he was Golovkin's age... Nobody ever put Golovkin down in 387 am/pro fights. If Glen Johnson can nail Roy to the floor why can't Triple-G who's a lot better? I think Roy would be too available and be knocked out by Golovkin. Roy's defense was flawed.

Toney had a great chin but his defense could be penetrated by such slowpokes as Drake Thadzi and Montel Griffin, who easily beat him... GGG has a much better jab than either of those 2 or Toney had... GGG would box the piss out of Toney.

[Counter-puncher]

Roy was a great inside fighter. .

[loudon]

Kalan,

Golovkin spend 21 hours in airports preceding the Ouma fight as flights were delayed. He was dog tired when he entered the ring with Ouma, and that's why he looks a little under-the-weather for that fight.. Despite that he was the first guy in over 10 years to KO Ouma... Obviously Jermain Taylor, Vanes Martirosyan, Gabe Rosado and many others couldn't knock Ouma out.. Golovkin was killing him.

A prime Roy Jones was knocked right on his ass by light hitting Lou Del Valle... and obviously Roy was knocked out when he was Golovkin's age... Nobody ever put Golovkin down in 387 am/pro fights. If Glen Johnson can nail Roy to the floor why can't Triple-G who's a lot better? I think Roy would be too available and be knocked out by Golovkin. Roy's defense was flawed.

Toney had a great chin but his defense could be penetrated by such slowpokes as Drake Thadzi and Montel Griffin, who easily beat him... GGG has a much better jab than either of those 2 or Toney had... GGG would box the piss out of Toney.

I'm now convinced that you're trolling.

First off, you take the best versions of each fighters, and give an OBJECTIVE and EDUCATED opinion of what you think would have happened, that's based on LOGIC.

You're looking at an in-shape Toney at MW. Not the one who battled the scales at LHW.

Your opinion on a match up against Roy is just laughable. Lou Del Valle caught Roy with a great shot, but if you'd seen the fight, you'd note that the canvas was wet, and Roy's back foot slipped beneath him which caused him to land face first. You can clearly see it in the overhead shot. It's on YouTube, have a look. Also, that was Roy's THIRD weight class, and although Del Valle wasn't a huge puncher, he weighed in over 180 pounds.

Regarding the fact that GG has never have been knocked down, so what? It means nothing here. So what if Roy was taken out at 35 but GG hasn't been? Again: Roy fought more fights, against better opposition, and he fought in 4 weight classes, which included going to HW and back.

A fantasy fight at MW would see GG fighting Roy at 25, not 35. In a fantasy fight where you pick the best versions of each guy at the weight, he'd have been fighting the version of Roy who fought Thomas Tate at MW, not the faded version who fought Glen Johnson at LHW after 50 fights.

You say that Roy would have been available and his defence was flawed? Well as great as GG is, he's EASY to hit, with little head movement. He also marks up. Although Roy had an unconventional defence that relied heavily on his athleticism, it was very hard to penetrate. Roy was very hard to tag clean. Which meant that he actually had a great defence. Then you have to note that Roy would have had a HUGE advantage in speed, as well as advantages in reach and weight, whilst also possessing one punch knockout power in either hand. Roy's speed would have been an absolute nightmare for GG. At this stage, I don't know how on earth he could have been favoured over Roy. Roy was on another planet to guys like Danny Jacobs. Roy would have found him easy to hit.

[loudon]

Roy was a great inside fighter. .

Now I obviously wasn't referring to him as being a conventional inside fighter.

A conventional inside fighter fights up close to his opponent, primarily in the centre of the ring. Roy obviously never did that, because he was so fast in his prime, he was in and out of range before the majority of his opponents could react. However, from the late 90's onwards, Roy voluntarily started to back himself on to the ropes, especially in the corner of the ring. That happened in many of his later fights. Whilst he was backed into a corner or layed back on the ropes, he used to display fantastic inside fighting abilities. He often used to lean back and throw double hooks and uppercuts from just a few inches away. Often his opponents would be leaning on him with their head almost touching his, and then Roy would find a gap, and unleash great combinations.

Go and watch the Lacy fight. I know Roy and Jeff were both badly faded at that point, but I only watched it last night, so I can remember specific moments in the fight. And again, Roy replicated those moments in many fights, especially through the 00's.

[Ambling Alp II]

Mosley jumped 2 weight classes to beat ODLH. Tito didn't beat Oscar in my view. I believe that Oscar won the fight, but, he didn't close the show like Mosley did against him. None of the 3 are top 100 ATG pound per pound boxers in my view.

Oscar vs Pretty Boy Floyd, well Oscar had the weight, reach, height and more experienced than Floyd, and lost BIG TIME!
Oscar was not in the same slate of Sweet Pea. Oscar was fresher at the time. With Pacman? Well, again. He had all the physical advantages against Manny. He got the whupping of his life.

Winning lots of world crowns in different weight classes these days don't mean much. Oscar clearly lost THE BIGGEST FIGHTS AT THE BIGGEST STAGES. With the great Bernard Hopkins? Well, he did some extraordinary theatrics right there. I don't if it was for best comedy or drama. He didn't fool me with those theatrics.

Too many champions that supposed to be in the top 100 couldn't make it. It's a special selected group. Of these generation of fighters, the ones that enter in my book:
Floyd Mayweather, Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones, Jr
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
And maybe, a possible maybe, but it could be arguable, Erik "El Terrible" Morales. I don't have a problem if someone says he's top 100 ATG pound per pound boxer.

But, these fighters?
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Naseem Hamed
Lennox Lewis
Felix "Tito" Trinidad

No, I don't see them making it. There are other great boxers like Jack Delaney, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Billy Petrolle, Mysterious Billy Smith, Lou Ambers, for example, in my view, were better than Oscar De La Hoya.

elmer, I never know whether to bang my head against the wall or laugh at you.

Do you realize that De La Hoya was older against Pacquio and Mayweather than Chavez and Whitaker were when they fought him?

Chavez was 33 in the first fight against De La Hoya.
Whitaker was 33 when he fought De La Hoya.
De La Hoya was 34 when he fought Mayweather.
De La Hoya was 35 when he fought Pacquio.

Try connecting the dots for once.
You either count all of these fights or none of them. You can't count the losses against De la hoya when he was past it and then make excuses for his opponents that they were too old when they were younger than DLH was in his losses.

You say Mosley fought two weight classes above his original weight when he fought de La Hoya.
Guess what? De La Hoya was up three weight classes when he fought Mosley. He was a Jr Light weight champion at one time.
Again connect the dots.

He had all the physical advantages against Pacquio? Wow. Do you realize that DLH had not been down the the welterweight level in 7 years? And again, he was 35 years old.

You have Mysterious Billy Smith in your Top 100? Wouldn't put him in my Top 1000. He was better than De La Hoya? The guy won less than half of his fights. Wow. I mean wow.

Mysterious Billy Smith is a consideration for top 100 ATG pound per pound greats. He is not in my list. It's just an example of fighters that didn't make it in my view. Others like Floyd Patterson, Flash Elorde, Nino Benvenutti, Jem Driscoll, Owen Moran, Harold Johnson and Cocoa Kid for example, to me, were better than Oscar De La Hoya in my view.

If Oscar would have beaten Trinidad, He would have been probably inside the top 100. But, He DEFINITELY FLUNK BIG TIME in a fight of that magnitude.

De La Hoya was 34 against Floyd. He was not all that shopworn like when the greats Julio Cesar Chavez and Pernell Whitaker fought against him. Plus, he had weight, reach and height advantages against someone that was fighting at 154lbs for the first time.

With Manny? Let's give you that one. Oscar was out of it and it showed that it was time to retire. Well, how about losing to Sugar Shane? He shouldn't lose to him. Mosley went up 2 weight classes and beat him. But the fights that he should have won to be called a great fighter, he lost: Tito, Sugar Shane and PBF.

There is no plausible reason for rating Smith higher than De La Hoya.
DLH was clearly past his best against Mayweather. Of course he was shpworn. He had fought many tough competitiors over a long career. And it was still a compeititive fight. He had taken much more punishment in his career than Whataker and was older
.
Again why do you keep saying Mosley moved up two weight classes to fight De La Hoya. His last few fights were at welterweight. DLH actually was fighting three weight classes above Jr lightweight, where he won the title.
DLH fought a great fight the first time against Mosely, he just came up short. He should have got the decison in the rematch.

You would have had him the Top 100 if he would have beaten Trindidad? Wow. Do you seriously think De La Hoya should not have got the decision in that fight?

[elmersalsa]

Oscar didn't close the show like he should against Tito, Ambling Alp. That's why those two weren't all that like their fans claimed them to be.


Other fighters that I rate above ODLH:
Midget Wolgast
Newsboy Brown
Young Corbett III
Charles "Kid" McCoy
Lloyd Marshall

They didn't make it in my view. You see the point, Alp?

[Ambling Alp II]

I see the point that you don't like DLH so therefore you won't rate him highly.
I agree that he wasn't the greatest fighter of all time.
Give me your top 100 and I will find fighters that he was better than.

[Kalan]

Kalan,

Golovkin spend 21 hours in airports preceding the Ouma fight as flights were delayed. He was dog tired when he entered the ring with Ouma, and that's why he looks a little under-the-weather for that fight.. Despite that he was the first guy in over 10 years to KO Ouma... Obviously Jermain Taylor, Vanes Martirosyan, Gabe Rosado and many others couldn't knock Ouma out.. Golovkin was killing him.

A prime Roy Jones was knocked right on his ass by light hitting Lou Del Valle... and obviously Roy was knocked out when he was Golovkin's age... Nobody ever put Golovkin down in 387 am/pro fights. If Glen Johnson can nail Roy to the floor why can't Triple-G who's a lot better? I think Roy would be too available and be knocked out by Golovkin. Roy's defense was flawed.

Toney had a great chin but his defense could be penetrated by such slowpokes as Drake Thadzi and Montel Griffin, who easily beat him... GGG has a much better jab than either of those 2 or Toney had... GGG would box the piss out of Toney.

I'm now convinced that you're trolling.

First off, you take the best versions of each fighters, and give an OBJECTIVE and EDUCATED opinion of what you think would have happened, that's based on LOGIC.

You're looking at an in-shape Toney at MW. Not the one who battled the scales at LHW.

Your opinion on a match up against Roy is just laughable. Lou Del Valle caught Roy with a great shot, but if you'd seen the fight, you'd note that the canvas was wet, and Roy's back foot slipped beneath him which caused him to land face first. You can clearly see it in the overhead shot. It's on YouTube, have a look. Also, that was Roy's THIRD weight class, and although Del Valle wasn't a huge puncher, he weighed in over 180 pounds.

Regarding the fact that GG has never have been knocked down, so what? It means nothing here. So what if Roy was taken out at 35 but GG hasn't been? Again: Roy fought more fights, against better opposition, and he fought in 4 weight classes, which included going to HW and back.

A fantasy fight at MW would see GG fighting Roy at 25, not 35. In a fantasy fight where you pick the best versions of each guy at the weight, he'd have been fighting the version of Roy who fought Thomas Tate at MW, not the faded version who fought Glen Johnson at LHW after 50 fights.

You say that Roy would have been available and his defence was flawed? Well as great as GG is, he's EASY to hit, with little head movement. He also marks up. Although Roy had an unconventional defence that relied heavily on his athleticism, it was very hard to penetrate. Roy was very hard to tag clean. Which meant that he actually had a great defence. Then you have to note that Roy would have had a HUGE advantage in speed, as well as advantages in reach and weight, whilst also possessing one punch knockout power in either hand. Roy's speed would have been an absolute nightmare for GG. At this stage, I don't know how on earth he could have been favoured over Roy. Roy was on another planet to guys like Danny Jacobs. Roy would have found him easy to hit.

His nickname is GGG or Triple-G and you know it... George Groves is GG... Del Valle might have weighed into the ring over 180, but if Daniel Jacobs had been forced to weigh into the ring he would have weighed well over 180.. He was bigger, stronger, harder punching and a better boxer than Del Valle and a World Champion.. He didn't knock Golovkin down.. Del Valle was mediocre and knocked Roy on his ass in his prime, so don't make goofy excuses for Roy. Golovkin outscored everyone he ever boxed. Saying he's EASY to hit is a pejorative that comes from haters.

GGG was never knocked down. Roy was knocked down and knocked out on numerous occasions. His Middleweight reign didn't last long enough to evaluate because he was a true Light Heavyweight. He was drained at Middleweight and fought only soft opposition until he met Toney, who unfortunately didn't train for the fight.. That happened to Toney a lot during his career.. He was a lazy lout who allowed nobodies like Drake Thadzi and Dave Tiberi to out-punch him.

[nikos6]

Kalan can you give a little detail on how you think the fights vs RJJ, Hopkins, and Toney vs GGG if you take the best versions?

RJJ won a decision vs Jorge Castro easily, but the fight was sort of competitive and Castro took all RJJ could give and got him to cover up at times against the ropes. Is there something from that fight you think GGG could do on RJJ that Castro couldn't?

Would GGG outjab toney and Hopkins and use that to wear on them and use it to crowd them against the ropes?

[loudon]

Kalan,

His nickname is GGG or Triple-G and you know it... George Groves is GG... Del Valle might have weighed into the ring over 180, but if Daniel Jacobs had been forced to weigh into the ring he would have weighed well over 180.. He was bigger, stronger, harder punching and a better boxer than Del Valle and a World Champion.. He didn't knock Golovkin down.. Del Valle was mediocre and knocked Roy on his ass in his prime, so don't make goofy excuses for Roy. Golovkin outscored everyone he ever boxed. Saying he's EASY to hit is a pejorative that comes from haters.

I love how you spin things.

Jacobs is a good solid fighter. But he picked up a vacant title like Del Valle did, and although he had a great win against Quillin, he was taken out by Pirog.

You can't refer to one as mediocre, whilst declaring the other one as a world champ.

So what if Del Valle knocked Roy down, and you think that Jacobs is better than Del Valle? Ha! Is that your evidence that GG would have beaten Roy? It's just laughable.

Also: If Roy hadn't have lost his footing, there's a big chance that he wouldn't have gone down from the shot. Again: the referee had to wipe the canvas with a towel on 2 occasions. Roy momentarily slipped on 2 other occasions during the fight.

I'll post the video.

Look closely, and pay attention to the overhead view.

Roy takes the shot, moves back, and his weight is transferred to his right foot. And when he goes back, it completely slips beneath him, causing him to fall fast and hard, face first, onto his outstretched gloves.

Here:

https://youtu.be/jp7h37fMneg

If you can't see what I'm referring to, go and see an optician.


Back on topic, I don't care if GG has out scored all of his opponents and has never lost. It means nothing here, putting him in a fantasy fight against Roy at 25.

GGG was never knocked down. Roy was knocked down and knocked out on numerous occasions. His Middleweight reign didn't last long enough to evaluate because he was a true Light Heavyweight. He was drained at Middleweight and fought only soft opposition until he met Toney, who unfortunately didn't train for the fight.. That happened to Toney a lot during his career.. He was a lazy lout who allowed nobodies like Drake Thadzi and Dave Tiberi to out-punch him.

Again: I don't care that GG has never been knocked down or out. Apart from the slip against Del Valle, neither did Roy until he'd fought 50 times across 4 weight classes, which included going up to HW and back.

Yes, you can evaluate Roy's skills at MW, even though he didn't remain there for long. In 1993, he beat Malinga in a keep busy fight. That was before he fought Thomas Tate at MW in 1994. When he fought Tate, he was in his prime at 25 years old. In that same year, he went on to fight James Toney. Apart from the difference of about 6 pounds, the version of Roy who fought Tate, was the same version who fought Toney. Same age, same year, same attributes. If you want to put these guys up in a fantasy head to head, it's the best versions of each guys at MW. The faded 35 plus year old versions of Roy who were beaten by Johnson etc, wasn't the same version who'd iced Tate in 2 rounds, 10 years earlier.

Now look at the attributes that that version of Roy possessed. You've got to be out of your mind to have favoured GG. Yes, he's easy to hit. He has little head movement, he marks up, and Roy had huge advantages in hand and foot speed. He also had a bigger reach and fantastic reflexes, as well as one punch knockout power in either hand. He'd have been an absolute nightmare for GG. And I say that as a huge fan of his.

You can talk about Del Valle and Jacobs all you like. Roy was simply on another planet to a guy like Danny Jacobs.

As it stands, GG has done nothing to have been favoured over Roy at his peak. Roy would have tagged him easily and often. And if you honestly believe that GG was faster with a better defence, (which is what you said a few months ago) then there's really no point in taking this any further. It's a joke.

[elmersalsa]

I see the point that you don't like DLH so therefore you won't rate him highly.
I agree that he wasn't the greatest fighter of all time.
Give me your top 100 and I will find fighters that he was better than.

I will post the list, soon!

[Ambling Alp II]

Please do. Probably would be a good idea to start a new Topic for it. Don't forget to include Roberto Duran.

[elmersalsa]

Please do. Probably would be a good idea to start a new Topic for it. Don't forget to include Roberto Duran.

[Kalan]

You can't refer to one as mediocre, whilst declaring the other one as a world champ ...

So what if Del Valle knocked Roy down, and you think that Jacobs is better than Del Valle?

Jacobs is a World Champion because he knocked out undefeated Peter Quillin in a title unification fight in the 1st round.. I didn't see him as a World Champion before then.. Who did Del Valle ever beat? ..The KO loss of Jacobs to Pirog happened many years ago... That was hardly a Middleweight of the same resistance and skills who faced Gennady Golovkin... Jacobs scored 12 straight KO wins after that loss and had a KO ratio of 88% going into the GGG fight... Calling him GG just shows you're another hater who can't be reasoned with... You're trying to sell the BS that Roy Jones's KO losses when he was Gennady Golovkin's age of 35 don't count...and any questionable losses or even robberies that Golovkin suffers at 35 or older will be met with brickbats by haters like yourself... That's guaranteed.

Roy never disputed the knockdown by Del Valle... He knew damned well it wasn't a slip.