what if ?-James Dean in SOMEBODY UP THERE LIKES ME (1956)

[Caractacus]

originally James Dean had been cast to play Middle-weight champion Rocky Graziano
in the 1956 film,but James Dean died in September 1955 before production began.
Do you think that James Dean would have been better in the role or just different ?
would the fight scenes have had more pizzaz or what ?

Paul Newman- 5 ft 10" tall ,born January 1925 in Ohio and 31 years old (in 1956)
James Dean-5 ft 8",born in Indiana in 1931 and 24 years old ,(1955)
(Rocky Graziano- 5 ft 7" tall ,born in Brooklyn NY in 1919(and 37 years old in 1956.)

[Caractacus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSKPN3Upt64

[APerno]

With Dean, the film would have been a darker movie - neither man looked Italian but at least Newman was a Jew (a cousin); having Dean play Rocky is kind of like having Ryan O'Neil play 'Michael' in the Godfather (an idea Robert Evans actually tried to talk Coppola into going with). I think the film worked better with a light whimsical Rocky (Newman), instead of a dark brooding Rocky (Dean) - the latter may have been a more 'true' film but would not have been as enjoyable to watch (e.g. Raging Bull).

[cfang]

With Dean, the film would have been a darker movie - neither man looked Italian but at least Newman was a Jew (a cousin); having Dean play Rocky is kind of like having Ryan O'Neil play 'Michael' in the Godfather (an idea Robert Evans actually tried to talk Coppola into going with). I think the film worked better with a light whimsical Rocky (Newman), instead of a dark brooding Rocky (Dean) - the latter may have been a more 'true' film but would not have been as enjoyable to watch (e.g. Raging Bull).

Agree. Dean a great actor but would be totally miscast in that role.

[Caractacus]

former world junior welterweight champion ( and boxing coach to the stars)
Mushy Callahan
coached Paul Newman how to box for the movie.
Mushy Callan was also hired by Warner Bros. to coach James Dean how to throw punches in East of Eden
and was also brought in to cheorgraph the fight scenes in REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE.
Mushy Callahan was impressed with James Dean and said he could have been a champion at his weight level
if he chose boxing over acting.

[Caractacus]

check out the sneaky short right that James Dean delivers here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0CgfJOvl_Y

[Caractacus]

check out the double-knockdown that James Dean does at the end of this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2SskRLd4F4

[punchoutsb]

James Dean vs Wilt Chamberlain threads incoming?

[Caractacus]

personally,I think James Dean had much more "Dynamic Tension" in his various fights scenes then Paul Newman had at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eselLQax8us

[Caractacus]

when I first saw this movie on TV sometime back in the 1970's( at least after once I knew who Rocky Graziano was after reading about him in boxing magazines)
I think it was played sort of tongue-in-cheek because (IMOP)Newman seemed to make the charactor seem kind of stereotypicaly dumb
as a lot of the public perceved boxers to have been)
and those punches at 1:33 look like he was hitting the dude in the noggin with a wet shammy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49v53FQXN8

[punchoutsb]

Newman seemed to make the charactor seem kind of stereotypicaly dumb
as a lot of the public perceved boxers to have been)

That's how the book was written really. One of my all time favorite boxing bios.

[L.A. kidd]

dean could never play a fighter, and newman, wasn't any good either.

[APerno]

when I first saw this movie on TV sometime back in the 1970's( at least after once I knew who Rocky Graziano was after reading about him in boxing magazines)
I think it was played sort of tongue-in-cheek because (IMOP)Newman seemed to make the charactor seem kind of stereotypicaly dumb
as a lot of the public perceved boxers to have been)
and those punches at 1:33 look like he was hitting the dude in the noggin with a wet shammy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49v53FQXN8

Want to see stereotypical dumb check out the fight film Fat City - Remember Ernie 'Coach' Pantusso, the first air-headed bartender from the TV series Cheers? That was Nicholas Colasanto, he developed that character playing the 'dumb' manager/trainer in Fat City - if you see the film you realize why he got that part in Cheers.

[APerno]

dean could never play a fighter, and newman, wasn't any good either.

Who would you have cast for the part? - What did you think of Errol Flynn as Corbett (Gentlemen Jim) - if you didn't like Newman you probably hated Flynn. Russel Crowe?

[L.A. kidd]

dean could never play a fighter, and newman, wasn't any good either.

Who would you have cast for the part? - What did you think of Errol Flynn as Corbett (Gentlemen Jim) - if you didn't like Newman you probably hated Flynn. Russel Crowe?[/quote

thought russell crowe was great, in cinderella man.

[L.A. kidd]

i thought russell crowe was great in cinderella man.

[Caractacus]

dean could never play a fighter, and newman, wasn't any good either.

Who would you have cast for the part? - What did you think of Errol Flynn as Corbett (Gentlemen Jim) - if you didn't like Newman you probably hated Flynn. Russel Crowe?[/quote

thought russell crowe was great, in cinderella man.

I thought Errol Flynn was terrific as Gentleman Jim Corbett
and Ward Bond as John L. Sullivan,I cant think of another actor who could have played a better Jawnel.
The one problem with that film was the actor who played Joe Choynski,who looked about 6 ft 7".

[Caractacus]

watch James Dean (about 5 ft 7" in his socks) knock-out 6 ft 4" tall Rock Hudson
with a terrific combination in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkUeztGivQg

[APerno]

watch James Dean (about 5 ft 7" in his socks) knock-out 6 ft 4" tall Rock Hudson
with a terrific combination in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkUeztGivQg

All he had to do was loop that final right hand to the body and we would have had a bolo punch.

[Caractacus]

well Warner Bros. had former junior welter-weight champion Mushy Callahan ( active 1922-1932)
coach James Dean on how to throw punches
when he started filming EAST OF EDEN.
and when REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE began filming,
James Dean sparred with Mushy Callahan
and also was coached by and sparred with New York middleweight Roger Donoghue (active 1948-1952)
( who also coached Marlon Brando for ON THE WATERFRONT)
former welterweight Ace "the Nebraska Wildcat" Hudkins (active 1922-1932)also gave James Dean some boxing tips in that film.
and for Somebody up there likes me, welterweight Johnny Indrisano( active 1923-1934) was suppose to coach James Dean for that one,but I'm not sure if they ever even got to meet.
So if someone was to teach James Dean how to throw a "Bolo-Punch" my guess
it would have been Roger Donoghue.( if the punch was in his repoitre that is).

[Caractacus]

Perhaps this is how James Dean may have approached how to play Rocky Graziano had he lived to film the movie ?
This aired on Television July.17.1953.
( and check out thse lines beginning at about 1:50 that James Dean does,do they sound kinda familiar to you ?)
there even appears to be a little "Vinnie Barbarino" at about 4:00 if you were to ask me )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJyy9zhqP8Q

[Kalan]

I can why James Dean was the 1st choice for the part..

Dean had the thicker hair, the right height and the swagger.. Newman was a rebel but he didn't swagger like Dean.. Newman was a very bright guy. A brilliant business guy who built a company with gross sales of 600 million a year.. He was successful at auto racing and everything he tried... But when Newman played dumb guys he played them super dumb, and with that phony sounding accent he didn't come across as authentic..

I loved Newman as outlaw Butch Cassidy, grifter Henry Gondorf, spy/rocket scientist Michael Armstrong, and super cocky fuk off Cool Hand luke -- but hated him as Graziano.. I'm pretty damned sure Dean would have done a perfect Graziano.. That movie would have been a lot bigger with him.. Dean was pretty convincing punching out Rock Hudson in the Giant, so I think he could have carried off the fight scenes -- and he would have gotten the voice.. Newman was too far from the character to really understand him.

[Caractacus]

Perhaps James Dean may have played the role more grittier like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3aXr1cgE7M

[Kalan]

Yeah, a little different character for Dean...the ultimate dead end kid in A Long Time Till Dawn.. I knew a lot of dead enders.. They died young or went to prison again and again.. If it weren't for Boxing that would be Mike Tyson.. That would be Bernard Hopkins.. That would be Sonny Liston.. That could have been Rocky Graziano too, but the guy had a brain in his head.. or at least he was an optimist.

Most street thugs are pessimists.. They want to nail that girl tonight.. They want to get high tonight.. They want that car today.. They want to get even with their enemy tonight -- because a month from now they might be in prison -- or they might be dead. They take whatever comes their way because they never asked to be born in a ghetto to shiftless, world-weary parents. They figure their fate was written in the stars before they were born -- and after they die their memory will vanish like mist dispersed by the sun. Today is all they have and they want instant gratification.

Graziano ran with the bad guys, but he was an optimist with a longer time line. He knew he would get out of prison and make good. He thought he was going to win every fight he was in because he had the equalizer. I remember him getting lots of acting gigs and appearing in tons of commercials. He made friends easily and everybody liked him because he had a lot of humility. Robinson thought he was the cat's meow. He had fabulous charisma and star power, but his personal life was a disaster. I thought the movie portrayal of Graziano was a little too downbeat.

[Caractacus]

tHAT post put me in mind of a song I was listening to on the radio just the other day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3-DqUve08