Does Canelo have a stamina issue?

[lazboy]

Going by memory, pre Mayweather fight and the Mayweather fight, Canelo would really slow after 6 or so rounds. Mayweather highlighted this, but that was years ago and at 153 pounds.

In his recent fight with Cotto, he had Cotto hurt a couple of times, he significantly outweighed him, Cottos punches were having no effect, yet Canelo didnt push for the knockout. Didn't just let his hands go, everything was very reserved (in my opinion).

Agaisnt Smith, Canelo started rounds strong, then languished to the ropes numerous times. To me that was not laying traps BS, that was a breather.

Canelo try's to be a precise puncher and he is (when the targets in front of him, Smith for example). Is this because he needs to be to pace himself?

This is an opinion piece. I'm admittedly not a Canelo fan although regard him as a very strong puncher, seems to have a very good chin and is a tough fight for anybody, including Golovkin.

[Oiky]

Going by memory, pre Mayweather fight and the Mayweather fight, Canelo would really slow after 6 or so rounds. Mayweather highlighted this, but that was years ago and at 153 pounds.

In his recent fight with Cotto, he had Cotto hurt a couple of times, he significantly outweighed him, Cottos punches were having no effect, yet Canelo didnt push for the knockout. Didn't just let his hands go, everything was very reserved (in my opinion).

Agaisnt Smith, Canelo started rounds strong, then languished to the ropes numerous times. To me that was not laying traps BS, that was a breather.

Canelo try's to be a precise puncher and he is (when the targets in front of him, Smith for example). Is this because he needs to be to pace himself?

This is an opinion piece. I'm admittedly not a Canelo fan although regard him as a very strong puncher, seems to have a very good chin and is a tough fight for anybody, including Golovkin.

I have to agree with a lot of points made there

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He certainly did, seems to have gotten better. It certainly can't be confused as a strength.

[lazboy]

I didn't really answer my own question, I think he still does have this issue although it's been hidden well. I don't know the science behind weight cutting and whether his stamina will improve at middleweight but he'll be carrying more weight, won't that minus any extra energy he has? Plus, he'll need to work harder against bigger opponents.

[verlichte]

Canelo's stamina will improve when he starts competing 160lbs+.

His stamina isn't so bad at the moment though. He has a better engine during the later rounds than Kovalev showed against Chilemba and Ward.

[lazboy]

Canelo's stamina will improve when he starts competing 160lbs+.

His stamina isn't so bad at the moment though. He has a better engine during the later rounds than Kovalev showed against Chilemba and Ward.

You might be right illuminated one. Ward Kovalev was a gruelling affair though.

[caldo2025]

Canelo has not given anyone a reason to question his conditioning or wind I don't believe. I remember being impressed with Canelo's pace against Cotto and Lara. Not many people can say that they knocked out Cotto so I wouldn't use the fact that he didn't get the KO in the fight against him.

But, you do reference his weight cutting and weight gain advantages on fight night and that's clearly been part of the plan and a big reason for Canelo's success at lighter weights. As a collegiate wrestler who struggled to make weight for years, I can attest to what rapid weight loss and gain can do to a performance. It would definitely affect power and wind in the late rounds.

[boxing_rocks]

I didn't really answer my own question, I think he still does have this issue although it's been hidden well. I don't know the science behind weight cutting and whether his stamina will improve at middleweight but he'll be carrying more weight, won't that minus any extra energy he has? Plus, he'll need to work harder against bigger opponents.

Yes, his stamina should improve. On the other hand, he will likely be visibly slower at 164.5. We saw that with Ward moving up.

[jezzamundo]

To simply answer the question - yes. He has always taken minutes off rounds and never had a particularly impressive punch output:

vs Trout 431 punches thrown
vs Mayweather 526 punches thrown
vs Lara 415 punches thrown
vs Cotto 484 punches thrown
vs Smith 422 punches thrown (9 rounds)

[lefty]

No. Just an iron lung.

[Tanzio]

To simply answer the question - yes. He has always taken minutes off rounds and never had a particularly impressive punch output:

vs Trout 431 punches thrown
vs Mayweather 526 punches thrown
vs Lara 415 punches thrown
vs Cotto 484 punches thrown
vs Smith 422 punches thrown (9 rounds)

I think this is more testament to his economy of effort, which he gets away with thanks to his prima dona status.

The Trout fight was open scoring. Team GingerHead knew they had the decision and coasted.

The FMJ fight was an example of one of two scenarios; either GingerHead was playing his second fiddle part or it showed his inability to adjust and supercede his robotic economy of effort boxing style.

Edit; forgot Lara. That fight was close. He again failed to supercede his robotic economy of effort style and he got the close, controversial decision. I did not see a stamina issue in that fight.

GingerHead was in total control of the Cotto fight. No need to over exert.

Smith? Really, who cares?

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

[crusader]

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

Why, and do you think that would be the case if GGG threw as few punches as Canelo does?

If we dismiss things like consistently fighting half rounds, spending long stretches against the ropes not throwing much, and in general having a very low output, what does count as evidence of stamina issues?

I remember being impressed with Canelo's pace against Cotto and Lara.

Really? What was so impressive about it? He threw roughly 35 punches a round, which isn't much at all...

Even in GGG's relatively low output fight against Jacobs, Golovkin threw roughly 200 more punches than that, and he threw 400 more in 11 rounds against Murray.

[Tarkus]

Canelo has a stamina issue. It was very apparent in his last fight. Part of it is probably because of draining himself to make a weight that is far bellow his natural weight. At 160 or higher it should improve visibly. But he will never be a volume puncher like Golovkin.

[lazboy]

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

Why, and do you think that would be the case if GGG threw as few punches as Canelo does?

If we dismiss things like consistently fighting half rounds, spending long stretches against the ropes not throwing much, and in general having a very low output, what does count as evidence of stamina issues?

I remember being impressed with Canelo's pace against Cotto and Lara.

Really? What was so impressive about it? He threw roughly 35 punches a round, which isn't much at all...

Even in GGG's relatively low output fight against Jacobs, Golovkin threw roughly 200 more punches than that, and he threw 400 more in 11 rounds against Murray.

I read your stats, i hadn't looked i was going off memory. Agree with all this. Some tough questions posed.

[lazboy]

Canelo has a stamina issue. It was very apparent in his last fight. Part of it is probably because of draining himself to make a weight that is far bellow his natural weight. At 160 or higher it should improve visibly. But he will never be a volume puncher like Golovkin.

If he doesn't improve the amount thrown in his upcoming fight...he will always have this issue imo. His body is not a traditional boxers one, he looks like a ploughboy, obviously has strengths and disadvantages (stamina).

[Tanzio]

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

Why, and do you think that would be the case if GGG threw as few punches as Canelo does?

If we dismiss things like consistently fighting half rounds, spending long stretches against the ropes not throwing much, and in general having a very low output, what does count as evidence of stamina issues?h

Why? Because he is not economical enough. If he was he would not have the stamina issues.

I do think 3G managed the Jacobs challenge quite well, considerably better than Krusher handled the SOGgy puzzle.

[caldo2025]

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

Why, and do you think that would be the case if GGG threw as few punches as Canelo does?

If we dismiss things like consistently fighting half rounds, spending long stretches against the ropes not throwing much, and in general having a very low output, what does count as evidence of stamina issues?

I remember being impressed with Canelo's pace against Cotto and Lara.

Really? What was so impressive about it? He threw roughly 35 punches a round, which isn't much at all...

Even in GGG's relatively low output fight against Jacobs, Golovkin threw roughly 200 more punches than that, and he threw 400 more in 11 rounds against Murray.

There's more to boxing pace than punch stats so if that's all that you look at then it's not worth discussing with you. Boxing is not about absolute values and compubox garbage. For instance, Canelo chased a running Lara around the ring for 12 rounds. Lara ran so much that the judges refused to give him a fight that he had won. But Canelo dug in for 12 rounds and was in better shape than Lara was at the end of that fight.

Canelo is a power puncher that work 3 punch combos. As a boxer, you can choose to go for volume to win rounds or power to get your guy out of there. Canelo opts for the latter.

As i said, his pace has been impressive in the fights that have gone 12 rounds because he doesn't typically get to do it much and he was fresh at the end and looked good. You need to incorporate more into your repertoire than punch stats dude.

[lazboy]

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

Why, and do you think that would be the case if GGG threw as few punches as Canelo does?

If we dismiss things like consistently fighting half rounds, spending long stretches against the ropes not throwing much, and in general having a very low output, what does count as evidence of stamina issues?

I remember being impressed with Canelo's pace against Cotto and Lara.

Really? What was so impressive about it? He threw roughly 35 punches a round, which isn't much at all...

Even in GGG's relatively low output fight against Jacobs, Golovkin threw roughly 200 more punches than that, and he threw 400 more in 11 rounds against Murray.

There's more to boxing pace than punch stats so if that's all that you look at then it's not worth discussing with you. Boxing is not about absolute values and compubox garbage. For instance, Canelo chased a running Lara around the ring for 12 rounds. Lara ran so much that the judges refused to give him a fight that he had won. But Canelo dug in for 12 rounds and was in better shape than Lara was at the end of that fight.

Canelo is a power puncher that work 3 punch combos. As a boxer, you can choose to go for volume to win rounds or power to get your guy out of there. Canelo opts for the latter.

As i said, his pace has been impressive in the fights that have gone 12 rounds because he doesn't typically get to do it much and he was fresh at the end and looked good. You need to incorporate more into your repertoire than punch stats dude.

Punches thrown is a great stat. What's not great, is the punches landed stat. Thats usually the compubox F up. You're right though, Canelo was chasing Lara. Chasing is far easier than throwing punches, especially if nothings coming back at you which was the case. I appreciate it does wear you down, running, but not as much as throwing hard punches or punches in general. His power punches are impressive, his volume is not as impressive, If you think otherwise, thats fine.

[caldo2025]

Why, and do you think that would be the case if GGG threw as few punches as Canelo does?

If we dismiss things like consistently fighting half rounds, spending long stretches against the ropes not throwing much, and in general having a very low output, what does count as evidence of stamina issues?



Really? What was so impressive about it? He threw roughly 35 punches a round, which isn't much at all...

Even in GGG's relatively low output fight against Jacobs, Golovkin threw roughly 200 more punches than that, and he threw 400 more in 11 rounds against Murray.

There's more to boxing pace than punch stats so if that's all that you look at then it's not worth discussing with you. Boxing is not about absolute values and compubox garbage. For instance, Canelo chased a running Lara around the ring for 12 rounds. Lara ran so much that the judges refused to give him a fight that he had won. But Canelo dug in for 12 rounds and was in better shape than Lara was at the end of that fight.

Canelo is a power puncher that work 3 punch combos. As a boxer, you can choose to go for volume to win rounds or power to get your guy out of there. Canelo opts for the latter.

As i said, his pace has been impressive in the fights that have gone 12 rounds because he doesn't typically get to do it much and he was fresh at the end and looked good. You need to incorporate more into your repertoire than punch stats dude.

Punches thrown is a great stat. What's not great, is the punches landed stat. Thats usually the compubox F up. You're right though, Canelo was chasing Lara. Chasing is far easier than throwing punches, especially if nothings coming back at you which was the case. I appreciate it does wear you down, running, but not as much as throwing hard punches or punches in general. His power punches are impressive, his volume is not as impressive, If you think otherwise, thats fine.

I'm just not a big punch stat guy especially when it concerns power punchers like Canelo. He sits down on his punches unlike these Ukrainian fighters coming over now throwing a million slap punches to accumulate points. I'd much rather watch Canelo's style than these high output death by a million paper cut style of boxing.

[lazboy]

There's more to boxing pace than punch stats so if that's all that you look at then it's not worth discussing with you. Boxing is not about absolute values and compubox garbage. For instance, Canelo chased a running Lara around the ring for 12 rounds. Lara ran so much that the judges refused to give him a fight that he had won. But Canelo dug in for 12 rounds and was in better shape than Lara was at the end of that fight.

Canelo is a power puncher that work 3 punch combos. As a boxer, you can choose to go for volume to win rounds or power to get your guy out of there. Canelo opts for the latter.

As i said, his pace has been impressive in the fights that have gone 12 rounds because he doesn't typically get to do it much and he was fresh at the end and looked good. You need to incorporate more into your repertoire than punch stats dude.

Punches thrown is a great stat. What's not great, is the punches landed stat. Thats usually the compubox F up. You're right though, Canelo was chasing Lara. Chasing is far easier than throwing punches, especially if nothings coming back at you which was the case. I appreciate it does wear you down, running, but not as much as throwing hard punches or punches in general. His power punches are impressive, his volume is not as impressive, If you think otherwise, thats fine.

I'm just not a big punch stat guy especially when it concerns power punchers like Canelo. He sits down on his punches unlike these Ukrainian fighters coming over now throwing a million slap punches to accumulate points. I'd much rather watch Canelo's style than these high output death by a million paper cut style of boxing.

For the record, I thought Canelo beat Lara, and I hate the way Lara fought in that fight and in his fight against Vanes Martyson, thats the only 2 Lara fights I've seen, I'm not a fan. I like Canelo style, his fights are exciting. I dont like his personality and the way he's ducked golovkin but I'll always be interested to watch him fight. I just think he has a stamina issue, maybe due to the weight cut, we'll find out. He's a light middle, middle weight, not mike tyson, i think if he could he would throw more.

[jezzamundo]

To simply answer the question - yes. He has always taken minutes off rounds and never had a particularly impressive punch output:

vs Trout 431 punches thrown
vs Mayweather 526 punches thrown
vs Lara 415 punches thrown
vs Cotto 484 punches thrown
vs Smith 422 punches thrown (9 rounds)

I think this is more testament to his economy of effort, which he gets away with thanks to his prima dona status.

The Trout fight was open scoring. Team GingerHead knew they had the decision and coasted.

The FMJ fight was an example of one of two scenarios; either GingerHead was playing his second fiddle part or it showed his inability to adjust and supercede his robotic economy of effort boxing style.

Edit; forgot Lara. That fight was close. He again failed to supercede his robotic economy of effort style and he got the close, controversial decision. I did not see a stamina issue in that fight.

GingerHead was in total control of the Cotto fight. No need to over exert.

Smith? Really, who cares?

I think that 3G shows more signs of stamina issues than GingerHead.

To be fair he throws an average of 68 punches per round, compared to Canelo's 41, so it's to be expected that he'll huff and puff a little more. That said, I think GGG's stamina isn't as good now as it was when he faced Curtis Stevens. He threw 100 punches plus in five of the eight rounds in that fight, including 144 punches in the 8th. Of course he was never going to tee off on Jacobs like that, but I could definitely still see him outworking Canelo.

[Kalan]

I'm just not a big punch stat guy especially when it concerns power punchers like Canelo. He sits down on his punches unlike these Ukrainian fighters coming over now throwing a million slap punches to accumulate points. I'd much rather watch Canelo's style than these high output death by a million paper cut style of boxing.

You're pathetically biased attacking Ukrainian boxers instead of a boxing style you don't like.. I don't particularly like to watch light hitting Ukrainians like Postol and Shabranskyy who dances too much.. I don't consider them real good boxers -- but Lomachenko, Usyk, and Gvozdky are good boxer-punchers who get opponents out... What you're doing is like ripping African boxers because of the way Isaac Chilemba and Thabiso Mchunu fight.

[caldo2025]

Punches thrown is a great stat. What's not great, is the punches landed stat. Thats usually the compubox F up. You're right though, Canelo was chasing Lara. Chasing is far easier than throwing punches, especially if nothings coming back at you which was the case. I appreciate it does wear you down, running, but not as much as throwing hard punches or punches in general. His power punches are impressive, his volume is not as impressive, If you think otherwise, thats fine.

I'm just not a big punch stat guy especially when it concerns power punchers like Canelo. He sits down on his punches unlike these Ukrainian fighters coming over now throwing a million slap punches to accumulate points. I'd much rather watch Canelo's style than these high output death by a million paper cut style of boxing.

For the record, I thought Canelo beat Lara, and I hate the way Lara fought in that fight and in his fight against Vanes Martyson, thats the only 2 Lara fights I've seen, I'm not a fan. I like Canelo style, his fights are exciting. I dont like his personality and the way he's ducked golovkin but I'll always be interested to watch him fight. I just think he has a stamina issue, maybe due to the weight cut, we'll find out. He's a light middle, middle weight, not mike tyson, i think if he could he would throw more.

Honestly, if i were a judge in that fight then I also would have given it to Canelo. Because I think the moment a fighter starts running in a round, they lose that round. No matter what they've done up to that point absent of any knockdowns or penalty points. These fighters are doing it more and more now and they just don't learn from the boos they hear or the scores they get on the cards. It's silly.

Well, we are DEFINITELY going to see if your theory is true next weekend because this fight is going the distance. Do you know what this fight reminds me of? Cotto/Margarito 1. Not that either guy will have illegal wraps but the way the fight went. I can see Canelo landing some beautiful combo's early but he's going to be walked down the whole fight and Jr is going to his damage late. For some reason, i can see Canelo getting stopped late while up heavily on the cards.

[caldo2025]

I'm just not a big punch stat guy especially when it concerns power punchers like Canelo. He sits down on his punches unlike these Ukrainian fighters coming over now throwing a million slap punches to accumulate points. I'd much rather watch Canelo's style than these high output death by a million paper cut style of boxing.

You're pathetically biased attacking Ukrainian boxers instead of a boxing style you don't like.. I don't particularly like to watch light hitting Ukrainians like Postol and Shabranskyy who dances too much.. I don't consider them real good boxers -- but Lomachenko, Usyk, and Gvozdky are good boxer-punchers who get opponents out... What you're doing is like ripping African boxers because of the way Isaac Chilemba and Thabiso Mchunu fight.

Loma has started sitting on his punches recently but most of the other Ukrainians you named are exactly who i am referencing. You are probably one of those guys that wants to name Usyk a top P4P fighter even though he hasn't fought anyone worth a damn yet. He's a KNOWN slap puncher regardless of his KO's against garbage competition. Their styles coming over here is similar to the Cuban style, it's amateur based and to score points, not win professional rounds. That's not being racist or biased against a culture, it's fact. That's why all of these boxers are being taught to change their styles to be more pro and fan friendly. Don't hate the game, hate the Ukrainian limp wrested slappers.