Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary

[Kalan]

Boxing gloves back then were stuffed with horse hair,so maybe they didnt even need to wrap hands to protect them (the hands that is) ?

Dempsey sure as Hell wrapped them for war. Horse hair or not. Guys who swung away sure as Hell needed wraps. The dainty little boxers maybe not.

[Caractacus]

-Attention !- HOT OFF THE PRESS !
-The Fight by Rounds
(April.05.1915)
(also scroll over to page 4 on the right to read the rest of the newspaper round-by-round coverage)


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 3527&hl=en

maybe someone can scan this old newspaper article for the archives here in case google removes it in the future.

[Kalan]

The 2 articles are extremely slanted towards a white audience, as you would expect from reporters of 1915 or Fox News... However each of the articles uncannily backs up Johnson's version of events... This latest one states in the 4th, "Willard lunged ineffectively and Johnson laughed at his clumsy ineptitude." In the 6th they state, "Willard was badly distressed. The Challenger was rattled and boxed like an amateur" This corresponds to Johnson's claim that Willard was so inept he could never have beaten Johnson in a million years if the fight was on the up and up.

This article also stated that in the 22nd round that neither boxer seemed particularly tired or injured.. This backs up the fact they weren't wearing hand wraps -- and weren't punching hard because of the lack of hand wrappings.. Neither boxer had swollen faces, bad cuts, injuries, or evidence of 22 rounds of Heavyweight fighting.

And the article also talks about Johnson taking pains to locate his wife's seat before the the fight.. She was the one who was supposed to signal him that the documents he was promised had all been examined and were in order...so locating her seat was crucial. This latest article also states that Johnson LOOKED DIRECTLY AT HIS WIFE JUST BEFORE he did his pratfall fake KO... This corresponds perfectly with Johnson's version of events that his wife signaled him that all the documents were in order, and in her possession just before he faked the KO to fulfill his end of the conspiracy.

There is a lot of confusion about the KO blow.. Willard claimed it was an uppercut.. Most everyone assumes it was the 2nd long right Willard threw after Willard threw a right to the body.. Johnson seemed to be positioning himself for this punch like an actor in a stage production positions himself to do a realistic job of faking getting knocked out.. Johnson receives the blow and goes down, believing that punch was realistic enough.. However in the first article Willard said he caught Johnson with "an uppercut" maybe knowing full well he missed the straight right, and maybe others saw that he missed too -- and there needed to be a KO punch -- but in a clinch sometimes many people miss an inside uppercut so he said it was an uppercut which confused everybody.

Then there is Johnson's action on the way to the canvas.. Johnson descends rather gently to the canvas without letting his head bounce -- which is what happens to an unconscious individual.. He has his knees up.. and moves his right forearm into place to shade his eyes from the sun. At the same instant he relaxes his legs and stretches them out on the canvas, he moves his forearm into place to shade his eyes, his right glove supported by his left glove.

[APerno]

This latest one states in the 4th, "Willard lunged ineffectively and Johnson laughed at his clumsy ineptitude." In the 6th they state, "Willard was badly distressed. The Challenger was rattled and boxed like an amateur" This corresponds to Johnson's claim that Willard was so inept he could never have beaten Johnson in a million years if the fight was on the up and up.
.

I understand the point this makes, but for what it is worth, period news article also stated that Corbett made Jeffries look like am amateur in the early rounds of their first fight.

[APerno]

And the article also talks about Johnson taking pains to locate his wife's seat before the the fight.. She was the one who was supposed to signal him that the documents he was promised had all been examined and were in order...so locating her seat was crucial. This latest article also states that Johnson LOOKED DIRECTLY AT HIS WIFE JUST BEFORE he did his pratfall fake KO...

This point is interesting because CW usually has Johnson signalling his wife to leave before the KO round because he didn't want her to see his humiliation; I have never heard of her returning to the fight after leaving, have you.?

[Kalan]

quote="APerno"]

And the article also talks about Johnson taking pains to locate his wife's seat before the the fight.. She was the one who was supposed to signal him that the documents he was promised had all been examined and were in order...so locating her seat was crucial. This latest article also states that Johnson LOOKED DIRECTLY AT HIS WIFE JUST BEFORE he did his pratfall fake KO...

This point is interesting because CW usually has Johnson signalling his wife to leave before the KO round because he didn't want her to see his humiliation; I have never heard of her returning to the fight after leaving, have you.?[/quote]

And the article also talks about Johnson taking pains to locate his wife's seat before the the fight.. She was the one who was supposed to signal him that the documents he was promised had all been examined and were in order...so locating her seat was crucial. This latest article also states that Johnson LOOKED DIRECTLY AT HIS WIFE JUST BEFORE he did his pratfall fake KO...

This point is interesting because CW usually has Johnson signalling his wife to leave before the KO round because he didn't want her to see his humiliation; I have never heard of her returning to the fight after leaving, have you.?

Hmmm... As you say, this point is interesting... Because now that you mention this I DO remember Johnson writing something about signalling his wife to leave the arena before the 26th round started, so this is very confusing.. Why would she still be there??? Word for word the article actually says "Willard rushed and slammed Johnson with a left and right to the body. In a clinch, the latter looked over Willard's shoulders to his wife's box and Willard smashed Johnson. Willard wins by KO."

Hmm, but the sportswriter didn't specifically state Mrs. Johnson was IN her box.. He says he looked TO her box.. But if she wasn't IN her box why TF wouldn't the writer tell us she wasn't there??? Possibly Johnson was looking at her box to make certain she had left the arena.. I'm checking the video again. At 9:33 of Caractacus's video you see Johnson grabbing Willard into an extremely strong clinch.. He looks out into the audience like he's looking for something.. as the referee tried to separate them Johnson maintains the clinch and turns Willard all the way around to gaze out into the exact same area of the arena.. That gaze must be what the sportswriter is talking about.. Johnson sees that his wife has indeed left the arena because a few seconds later Johnson sets up the fake KO shot, looking the punch all the way in and taking the dive... Freakin' Amazing. So that's what he was looking at.

[Caractacus]

Did you see them try and put that glove on Willard's hand ?
They could barely get it on because his hand was so huge ( about a 15 inch circumference)
maybe that is why they didnt wrap his hands ?
has anyone ever seen any photographs of Jack Johnson with hand wraps on ?

[Kalan]

There are pictures of Jim Jeffries before the Johnson fight showing him with wrapped hands as he's introduced... Dempsey is the first Heavyweight Champion who used elaborate wrappings... Before the Mauler many trainers thought that too much wrappings weighed down the fist.

[Kalan]

Willard's hands were not extra huge... He never had problems getting gloves on... Carnera and Liston sometimes had problems with the gloves offered them by the promoters or commissions... They would bring their own just in case they could demonstrate the ones provided wouldn't fit.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Say it ain't so Joe! I am shocked I tell you, nay shattered into shards over the revelation on this board that three of boxrec's most prolific heroes are actually one unit joined in some unholy trinity of sorts.

So, I got to wondering, what kind of world would Kallie, Buzzy, and Sadsack see?

1. JJohnson was a noble sort always ready with cash to help a working gal set herself up in bizness for a modest % of her revenues.

2. JJ diary penned in prison purchased by Nat Fleischer to help this noble chap short of cash is so 100% truth that he didn't have it published because we the unwashed the public can't handle to the truth.

3. JJ got the fluttering white hankie of surrender from his wife who had given his corner the micro stamp in invisible ink of the 6 page favorable gum'int agreement to turn himself over. He then invited one of the most concussive blows his history so he could lay down to shade his eyes enough to speed read the agreement that he was so pleased with he took a 5 min nap in dreams of such a sweet deal.

4. Moon is made of green cheese as even the ancients knew of and could never withstand a rocket landing upon it's melting surface, so Aldrin and Armstrong piloted a specially modified stealth Piper Cub assembled and launched off a South Korean fishing vessel early one sunday morn to sprint under any radar to the northern edge of the Gobi Desert where they disembarked with their blow up rubber space suits and fitted a hinged A frame ladder in place so the 3rd party, a 50lb Hollywood midget armed with a 1 lb hand cranked movie camera fitted with an obscuring lense could film them descending the ladder to bounce around on springs before sprinting back across to a welcoming US destroyer that took them home. The studio mocked up an image of the lunar capsule that was never designed to fly and released the film as men walking on the moon...yeah, right!

5. JFK, Elvis, and the Abominable Snowman actually live blissfully in a deep open cave at the top of the Himalayas as yet undiscovered in a Shangri La paradise of cojoiningness.

6. Prez Obamy was birthed in the Kenyan bush under a crescent moon with the able assistance of a witch doctor.

7. Prez Rump is making America great again.

8 You never have to sharpen your razor again as long as you place it in a small pyramid every night.

9. Never have to see a Doc if you are surrounded by magic healing crystals and only drink organic, gluten free spring water.

10. Roswell!

[Caractacus]

There are pictures of Jim Jeffries before the Johnson fight showing him with wrapped hands as he's introduced... Dempsey is the first Heavyweight Champion who used elaborate wrappings... Before the Mauler many trainers thought that too much wrappings weighed down the fist.

yeah, I just saw that photograph yesterday again.
He is in the ring striking a pose and the wrappings on his hands
looks thin and they didnt put yards of it on them because it looks like parts of the skin on his hands still exposed around the thumb joints .

[APerno]

8 You never have to sharpen your razor again as long as you place it in a small pyramid every night.

Oh no! That one is true, I kept my razor under a pyramid for over a year, and when I slit my wife's throat with is, it worked perfectly.

Contact Info:

P.O. Box 800
Raiford, Fl. 32083
All packaging subject to search

(904) 368-2500
FAX: (904) 368-2732

Website https://www.facebook.com/pages/Florida- ... 4189468239

[APerno]

There are pictures of Jim Jeffries before the Johnson fight showing him with wrapped hands as he's introduced... Dempsey is the first Heavyweight Champion who used elaborate wrappings... Before the Mauler many trainers thought that too much wrappings weighed down the fist.

yeah, I just saw that photograph yesterday again.
He is in the ring striking a pose and the wrappings on his hands
looks thin and they didnt put yards of it on them because it looks like parts of the skin on his hands still exposed around the thumb joints .

Me still thinks something similar is on Johnson's hands for the Willard fight, just can't see it clearly.

[Caractacus]

BTW before the fight Jack Johnson had predicted he would knock out Willard in 8 rounds.
So it looks like he "shot his bolt" in the seventh and it may have seemed like an uphill climb for him.

[Kalan]

1. JJohnson was a noble sort always ready with cash to help a working gal set herself up in bizness for a modest % of her revenues.

2. JJ diary penned in prison purchased by Nat Fleischer to help this noble chap short of cash is so 100% truth that he didn't have it published because we the unwashed the public can't handle to the truth.

3. JJ got the fluttering white hankie of surrender from his wife who had given his corner the micro stamp in invisible ink of the 6 page favorable gum'int agreement to turn himself over. He then invited one of the most concussive blows his history so he could lay down to shade his eyes enough to speed read the agreement that he was so pleased with he took a 5 min nap in dreams of such a sweet deal.

4. Moon is made of green cheese as even the ancients knew of and could never withstand a rocket landing upon it's melting surface, so Aldrin and Armstrong piloted a specially modified stealth Piper Cub assembled and launched off a South Korean fishing vessel early one sunday morn to sprint under any radar to the northern edge of the Gobi Desert where they disembarked with their blow up rubber space suits and fitted a hinged A frame ladder in place so the 3rd party, a 50lb Hollywood midget armed with a 1 lb hand cranked movie camera fitted with an obscuring lense could film them descending the ladder to bounce around on springs before sprinting back across to a welcoming US destroyer that took them home. The studio mocked up an image of the lunar capsule that was never designed to fly and released the film as men walking on the moon...yeah, right!

5. JFK, Elvis, and the Abominable Snowman actually live blissfully in a deep open cave at the top of the Himalayas as yet undiscovered in a Shangri La paradise of cojoiningness.

6. Prez Obamy was birthed in the Kenyan bush under a crescent moon with the able assistance of a witch doctor.

7. Prez Rump is making America great again.

8 You never have to sharpen your razor again as long as you place it in a small pyramid every night.

9. Never have to see a Doc if you are surrounded by magic healing crystals and only drink organic, gluten free spring water.

10. Roswell!

Okay so you want to try to be funny??? You want to try to write clever little pieces of humor for your own amusement???

1... So you go from agreeing with me on Chamberlain to condemning Johnson as a LIAR??? You think Johnson's primary livelihood was PIMPING???

2... Nat Fleischer ALWAYS insisted that Jack Johnson was the greatest Heavyweight of all time... He had a low opinion of Willard and so do I.

3... You call that "one of the most concussive blows in history" thrown with NO hand wraps on. There are NO still photos showing that punch making contact.. It's a FAKE!!! .. Johnson lowered himself gently to the canvas and his head DIDN'T BOUNCE on the canvas like an unconscious fighter's head WOULD BOUNCE after taking "one of the most concussive blows in history" ... So now...Johnson lays himself down with his knees up in the air -- and then, as the referee is counting, just happens to lay his legs out flat while at the same time he's shading his eyes from the sun with his forearm -- and with his right glove supported by his left glove.. Is that plausible for a knocked out person??? ... At 9:33 of Caractacus's video you see Johnson grabbing Willard in a powerful clinch and man-handling him like a rag doll -- as he very obviously gazes to his wife's box to make sure she exited the arena -- something that was so obvious the sportswriters present they WROTE about it... For a man weakened by 26 rounds of "Heavyweight Championship Fighting" against an unbelievably inept opponent, Johnson certainly controlled that clinch with brutal strength.. Willard tried to free himself from it and was easily outstrengthed by Johnson.. As soon as Johnson freed Willard from that clinch Johnson set up the fake KO blow -- which for some reason is the ONLY significant punch the pathetic Willard lands in 26 rounds..

4... You and BuzzBox may believe the moon is made of green cheese and the moon landing was a fake... I believe in science and achievement.

5... You and BuzzBox may believe Elvis lives... the Abominable Snowman and JFK live, and they're all in Shangri La... BuzzBox is a believer in Trump

6... You and BuzzBox may be birthers... I'm a Democrat and voted for both Clintons

7... You and BuzzBox may believe Trump will make America great. I believe America IS great and he'll make it CRAP!!! ... Like Dubya did.

8... You may believe in Pyramid Power.. That type of belief is for dingleberries like BuzzBox.

9... Great nutrition is beneficial to your health, but getting medical checkups in important... And any potable water is pretty much gluten free.

10... Roswell space ships may be something you and BuzzBox believe in.. Anyone with a working brain knows Unidentified Flying Objects have nothing to do with alien space craft flying about.. They're simply flying objects that haven't been identified.. Nobody is ever going to land here from another planet.

11... Maybe you didn't see Willard in his 1st Title Defense against Dempsey.. Without being aided by fakery, a 187-pound swinger mauled the inept plodder like he was the greenhorn of the Century.. Dempsey couldn't miss a punch.. In fact Willard ate a lot of Johnson shots too.. Johnson had to be careful not to knock Willard out, but he laughed at Willard's ineptitude.. Willard was greatly distressed and looked like an amateur vs Johnson... And that's according to reporters who WATCHED THE FIGHT and reported that... Read the round-by-round reporting and weep.

[Caractacus]

I came across this on youtube.
An abridged and very grainy print of the fight film,
( like the kind they would show in the basement of the VWF or something)
Showing just portions of
rounds one,
twelve,
fourteen,
fifteen,
seventeen,
eighteen,
nineteen,
twenty,twenty-one,twenty-five and twenty-six.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74dnCeXI8MM

[Kalan]

BTW before the fight Jack Johnson had predicted he would knock out Willard in 8 rounds.
So it looks like he "shot his bolt" in the seventh and it may have seemed like an uphill climb for him.

At 9:33 of the video you posted -- you see Johnson grabbing Willard in a powerful clinch and man-handling him like a rag doll -- as he very obviously gazes to his wife's box to make sure she exited the arena -- something that was so obvious the sportswriters present they WROTE about it... For a man weakened by 26 rounds of "Heavyweight Championship Fighting" against an unbelievably inept and weak opponent, Johnson certainly controlled that clinch with brutal strength.. Willard tried to free himself from it and was easily outstrengthed by Johnson.

NOT the behavior of a boxer who's so weak he's about to be knocked out...

Johnson could easy have gone 45 rounds or knocked Willard out if he wanted... Like I said, that KO blow was a real FAKE!!! What master boxer gets caught with that type of loaded lead shot??? The loaded straight right is the perfect FAKE punch. You always see it in the movies or faked stage fights between actors.

[Kalan]

Also... If Johnson "shot his bolt" in the 7th why does the last video you posted say he had one of his best rounds in the 14th??? Was he getting stronger and stronger the more of his bolt he shot??? ... The truth if that this was an easy sparring match for Johnson and only distressed Willard, which the newspaper articles of the round-by-round reporting that you unearthed demonstrate by reporting about Willard's "distress" ... his "amateurish ineptitude" ... his "inept lunging"... and Johnson being so amused at Willard's ineptitude he laughed at him.

Then you have the unlikely event that Willard never hurts Johnson for 26 rounds, but then takes him out with a loaded straight right lead as Johnson waits on the shot... The last punch a master boxer gets knocked out with because you can see it coming from a mile away...

But then it's the perfect punch to fake a KO with.

[APerno]

Kalan read all your arguments and I am not dismissive of them, but going 26 rounds to throw a fight, in the Cuban sun, at age (an old) 37 - just can't wrap my head around it - it is a non-starter for me; it defies common sense.

[Caractacus]

I think there should be a project to assemble all of the various newspaper accounts from all of the different reporters
who were at ringside and gave round-by-round coverage
and compare each account with one another and see what
how they viewed it and how their accounts may have varied sitting at differnet locations around the ring.
How about it ?

[APerno]

I'll start with the article you posted - rounds 5-6-7 have Johnson forcing the fight, drawing blood; the article reads like a fighter pushing for a KO, not someone pacing off rounds.

[Kalan]

Kalan read all your arguments and I am not dismissive of them, but going 26 rounds to throw a fight, in the Cuban sun, at age (an old) 37 - just can't wrap my head around it - it is a non-starter for me; it defies common sense.

LOL... That's because you're NOT a master boxer and can't picture YOURSELF doing that.. Can you picture yourself running 26 consecutive 5-minute miles under a hot sun??? Of course not. You're not a long distance runner. For a world class marathon runner it's a snap.. They NEED those competitions to get race hardened.. A boxer needs rounds and tries to get as many as he can - as opposed to a KO King who tries to blast everyone out ASAP..

A master boxer enjoys boxing as much as the world champion grand-master chess player enjoys playing chess.. Johnson boxed until he was past 60 because he loved it.. He knew he was going to tank the Willard fight.. So why not make Willard look like the "inept amateur" in "deep distress" that white sportswriters described him as??? .. Johnson also left several visual clues, so the most astute observers out there knew he didn't really get beaten -- it was a tank job.

At any rate Johnson HAD to wait 26 rounds... His wife and lawyers weren't given the documents to examine until he actually started fighting.. The fight was scheduled for 45 rounds so round 26 was one of the mid-rounds.. They weren't headed down the stretch for another 14 rounds so his team had plenty of time to make sure the documents were in order and gave Johnson exactly what he asked for..

When his wife signaled Johnson the papers were in order -- he in turn signaled her to leave the arena as you refreshed my recollection.. I had forgotten that part of the story.. Obviously the sportswriter noted Johnson was gazing at her box to make sure she was gone just before he faked the KO.. I wonder if it was the first time in his career Johnson threw a fight.. I've read many times that Dempsey faked his KO loss to Fireman Flynn so gamblers could clean up.. And that Jack did such a an incredibly mucked up job of it that everyone and his brother knew that Dempsey faked it.. Also that Jake LaMotta thew his match to Billy Fox -- but stunk it up so bad that sportswriters made fun of him and said he needed acting lessons.

[Kalan]

I'll start with the article you posted - rounds 5-6-7 have Johnson forcing the fight, drawing blood; the article reads like a fighter pushing for a KO, not someone pacing off rounds.

Johnson did what he did early in all of his Championship Fights... Establish his absolute superiority... He made Willard look like a bumbling amateur... He wasn't setting any kind of a hard pace at all... Most of it was posing, feinting, and positioning -- then a short flurry.. Nothing too strenuous.

[Kalan]

Dempsey did more work---in terms of damage---in 9 minutes -- than these 2 did in 76 minutes.

[Caractacus]

Reportedly Jack Johnson had tried to bet $10,000 on himself before the fight too.

It was a difficult fight for Johnson I think,because he was mainly a defensive fighter,
and when he did go on the offense,he could'nt just rush in and over welm Willard
because of Willard's size,like he could with Tommy Burns,Stanley Ketchel,Fireman Jim Flynn.