Jip wrote:Lewis was beaten everybody. Like wlad lewis was beaten smaller guys like tyson. Holyfield. Tua. Rahman. All opponents between 5.11 and 6.2.
Once he faced a tall elite 6.7 opponent he started losing rounds and was on his way losing against vitaly.
Josh is better and much less stiff than vitaly and is better than both
Lewis beat Vitali (who is far more proven than Joshua at this point) when he past his best and out of shape.This is 99% shite which I'll come back to later.Kalan wrote:How long do you think it would take Joshua to KO 214-pound Mavrovic -- who had very poor skills and never beat a ranked Heavyweight??? Joshua would have Mavrovic knocked out in 5 or 6 rounds tops...if not a lot sooner.Ossyrules wrote:Lennox jab is a proven world class heavyweight weapon. Joshua's isn't. So we can scrap that point.
As for technical decision Vitali shite, no, Vitali fought a great fight, but lost on cuts. Unfortunate, but that's part of boxing. For me the pendulum was swinging Lewis way in that fight anyway, but that's another story. The fact is Vitali had to be stopped on cuts or he was a round from having his face fall off. So we can scrap that point
How he'd knock out Lennox quicker than hed do Wlad is a big lol. Considering Lennox is superior to Wlad in just about every aspect of boxing. So let's scrap that point too
The gist of this article is basically Lewis rates Joshua highly, but as a fiercely competitive world class boxer, retired, doesn't have the mindset someone can be better than him. I don't read too much into this, especially the headline
And if Lewis's jab is world class, how come he wasn't able to use it to better effect vs Ray Mercer??? ... 42-year-old Larry Holmes out-jabbed Mercer very easily and so did Wladimir... Lewis got outjabbed by Mercer, but finally won on gritting it out -- and power-punch output.. Many thought Mercer won...
Saying Vitali's face was about to fall off is ridiculous, untrue, and pejorative... The damage was confined to his left eyelid and left cheek, but they were deep slashes and no legitimate punch slashes your eyelid and cheek up like that with little swelling... All the damage happened with a thumb strike and a holding and hitting palm slash in the first 20 seconds of the 3rd.. The first 2 rights Lewis threw in the 3rd were egregious fouls after he lost the first 2 rounds.. The cuts caused by those fouls should have meant a technical decision win for VK because he was winning on all scorecards after 6.
How was Lewis superior to Wlad??? Lewis was taken out twice with 1 punch so I don't think his chin was superior -- they both had problematic chins.. Lewis didn't move as well so his footwork wasn't superior... Wlad threw and landed more jabs at a higher rate so Lewis didn't have the superior jab... Lewis has no KO finishes with the left hook that equal Wlad's wins over Ray Austin and Kubrat Pulev.. Wlad fought more amateur fights but had fewer losses.. Wlad fought many more professional fights including World Title Fights and had many more wins.. Wladimir had at least 9 professional fights with southpaws and Lewis avoided southpaws his entire pro career.
Lewis certainly has a biased mindset that nobody is better than him... Reality is quite different because Joshua is better at everything -- and got there a lot faster than Lewis got there because of greater raw talent and mental focus... And he's a cleaner fighter who doesn't get fat between fights.
Fair enough you did actually say elite. You're still over looking many factors in that fight to conclude that he struggled vs tall elite fighters.Jip wrote:Read what i wrote...Ossyrules wrote:Show me where I say grant is better than Joshua. You say he struggled vs tall fighters as he lost rounds vs Vitali. You're talking shite mate and are showing your lack of knowledge here.Jip wrote:
Haha u non expert for sure. Wanna compare grant to aj hahahaha...a limited tall guy who later lost to manuel charr comparing to an gold medalist undefeated elite puncher who skills surpass anybody in the heavyweight division ? Haha
Lennoxs pro career is pretty spot on. Beat everyone and if he had a weakness it was he overlooked opponents are a few occasions, and it cost him defeat twice. When focussed he was formidable.
You have a short memory. Or you only started following boxing last few years?
I said lewis was beating smaller guys and once he faced a tall elite opponent he was losing rounds. Vitaly is tall elite. Grant is tall okay boxer far from elite ...u just overlooked the small but important word elite.
U from ireland..they were all saying shyte haha..was their for vac 1 week ago. Loved the breakfast and the fresh air
How can you say his stamina is better when he has barely chalked up rounds? You are wrong in the assumption he is stronger than Lewis. Lewis would beat Joshua on a current level, however the potential in AJ is terrific. He will have to go through deep water Saturday night but should get the win on points. His chin will be tested. I really think we will see a Klitshcko masterclass.asdfjkl wrote:AJ is already much better in allmost every aspect of the game, the speed, the strength, technically, I think even his stamina is better. Even Vitaly was obviously better, make that match again and 9 out of 10 matches Vitaly would have won. Fact Lewis won was really pure luck.
because I have seen him in the 7th round, even his opponent said, still this strong, after 7 rounds, AJ is the real deal.hagler81 wrote:How can you say his stamina is better when he has barely chalked up rounds? You are wrong in the assumption he is stronger than Lewis. Lewis would beat Joshua on a current level, however the potential in AJ is terrific. He will have to go through deep water Saturday night but should get the win on points. His chin will be tested. I really think we will see a Klitshcko masterclass.asdfjkl wrote:AJ is already much better in allmost every aspect of the game, the speed, the strength, technically, I think even his stamina is better. Even Vitaly was obviously better, make that match again and 9 out of 10 matches Vitaly would have won. Fact Lewis won was really pure luck.
asdfjkl wrote:because I have seen him in the 7th round, even his opponent said, still this strong, after 7 rounds, AJ is the real deal.hagler81 wrote:How can you say his stamina is better when he has barely chalked up rounds? You are wrong in the assumption he is stronger than Lewis. Lewis would beat Joshua on a current level, however the potential in AJ is terrific. He will have to go through deep water Saturday night but should get the win on points. His chin will be tested. I really think we will see a Klitshcko masterclass.asdfjkl wrote:AJ is already much better in allmost every aspect of the game, the speed, the strength, technically, I think even his stamina is better. Even Vitaly was obviously better, make that match again and 9 out of 10 matches Vitaly would have won. Fact Lewis won was really pure luck.
Has Lennox Lewis actually fought any top contender in their prime?Myrmidone wrote:asdfjkl wrote:because I have seen him in the 7th round, even his opponent said, still this strong, after 7 rounds, AJ is the real deal.hagler81 wrote:
How can you say his stamina is better when he has barely chalked up rounds? You are wrong in the assumption he is stronger than Lewis. Lewis would beat Joshua on a current level, however the potential in AJ is terrific. He will have to go through deep water Saturday night but should get the win on points. His chin will be tested. I really think we will see a Klitshcko masterclass.
You know AJ has not fought any decent HW till now, he struggle against the Bodysnatcher who is far away from that.
He has a lot of potential but saying that he is atm better than LL in his prime is just nonsense.
Let him fight some guys like Ortiz, Parker, Fury, Wilder, Povetkin than we could judge him way better.
Let that Boy fight 3-4 years and you could rate him, now he is just a raw,talented HW who has won a title against some B-C Level fighters.
Greets Myrmi
Lewis beat Vitali on a lucky shot?asdfjkl wrote:Has Lennox Lewis actually fought any top contender in their prime?Myrmidone wrote:asdfjkl wrote: because I have seen him in the 7th round, even his opponent said, still this strong, after 7 rounds, AJ is the real deal.
You know AJ has not fought any decent HW till now, he struggle against the Bodysnatcher who is far away from that.
He has a lot of potential but saying that he is atm better than LL in his prime is just nonsense.
Let him fight some guys like Ortiz, Parker, Fury, Wilder, Povetkin than we could judge him way better.
Let that Boy fight 3-4 years and you could rate him, now he is just a raw,talented HW who has won a title against some B-C Level fighters.
Greets Myrmi
As far as I know only Vitali and Vitali was clearly the best, Lewis just had a lucky shot.
Oliver McCall also won against Lewis and so did Rahman. Such things have never happened to AJ in hit pro carreer.
.... Lewis was still winning the fight when it was stopped. Also, even if Holyfield and Tyson were past their best- they're still better than anything than Joshua has beaten.Vitali was ahead on all scorecards wasn't he? Holyfield indeed wasn't in his prime, but initially still didn't lose, despite being a cruiserweight, or, a massive sizedifference like he said. Mike is the shortest heavyweight champion ever since lol.IT wrote:Lewis beat Vitali on a lucky shot?asdfjkl wrote:Has Lennox Lewis actually fought any top contender in their prime?Myrmidone wrote:
You know AJ has not fought any decent HW till now, he struggle against the Bodysnatcher who is far away from that.
He has a lot of potential but saying that he is atm better than LL in his prime is just nonsense.
Let him fight some guys like Ortiz, Parker, Fury, Wilder, Povetkin than we could judge him way better.
Let that Boy fight 3-4 years and you could rate him, now he is just a raw,talented HW who has won a title against some B-C Level fighters.
Greets Myrmi
As far as I know only Vitali and Vitali was clearly the best, Lewis just had a lucky shot.
Oliver McCall also won against Lewis and so did Rahman. Such things have never happened to AJ in hit pro carreer.
34 is pretty much your prime right?IT wrote:Lewis was also like 38 when he fought and beat Vitali. He was 34 when he beat Holyfield. He was hardly in his prime himself.
Ossyrules wrote:LolKalan wrote:Lewis says Joshua can be an ATG and do "Anything he wants." ... By "anything" he means anything but be greater than Lennox Lewis... LL sounds much like Joe Frazier comparing himself to Mike Tyson.. "Tyson is in NO WAY as good as me." ... Yup. That's why he matched his son Marvis against him.Ruthless-RKO wrote:Lennox Lewis believes Anthony Joshua has the ability to become an all-time great heavyweight - just not to the level that he did.
In only his 19th fight as a professional, Joshua will on Saturday defend his IBF title and bids to win the WBA, IBO belts when he faces Wladimir Klitschko in front of 90,000 people at Wembley.
Klitschko succeeded the retired Lewis as the world's leading heavyweight and, along with the titles, is fighting to reclaim that position against Joshua, widely considered the favourite.
"Can he be an all-time great?" asked Lewis, 51. "Yes. Yes.
"He can do anything he wants. But saying it and doing it is two different things. We can say it but it's up to him to do it. Yes, the potential is there.
"Could he go on to be better than me? I don't think so. It's difficult for me to say another man is better than me.
"How I come to that conclusion is I look at my amateur career. I had an extensive amateur career which led into my professional career which allowed me to be better.
"He didn't have an extensive amateur career - it was only a short one. To me, there is a lot Anthony Joshua still needs to learn.
"As he goes on he will learn them but his trainers need to understand that too because each fight for him is a learning curve.
"You don't want to learn in important fights; you want to be prepared for them."
http://www.BS.com/lennox-lewis ... EsjIw.dpuf
It's easy for ATG fighters to overrate themselves and underrate contemporary boxers... This was true for all periods in fistic history.
Joshua has a better jab than Lewis ever had and has much better right leads and right counters.. His defense is a lot more solid than Lewis's.. AJ has never been taken out by right hands from slow Heavyweights who were lacking in many skills. Those weren't the only 2 fights Lewis lost. Vitali Klitschko easily outscored Lewis for 6 rounds, on all cards -- in a fight that should have been announced as a Unanimous Technical Decision Win for Klitschko. Despite blood flowing steadily into his left eye from foul blows, Klitschko out-scored Lewis by a solid margin in that fight.
Taking Joshua the way he is right now... He would knock the best Lewis out within 10 rounds... It'll likely come faster with Klitschko.
Lennox jab is a proven world class heavyweight weapon. Joshua's isn't. So we can scrap that point.
As for technical decision Vitali shite, no, Vitali fought a great fight, but lost on cuts. Unfortunate, but that's part of boxing. For me the pendulum was swinging Lewis way in that fight anyway, but that's another story. The fact is Vitali had to be stopped on cuts or he was a round from having his face fall off. So we can scrap that point
How he'd knock out Lennox quicker than hed do Wlad is a big lol. Considering Lennox is superior to Wlad in just about every aspect of boxing. So let's scrap that point too
The gist of this article is basically Lewis rates Joshua highly, but as a fiercely competitive world class boxer, retired, doesn't have the mindset someone can be better than him. I don't read too much into this, especially the headline
Such beautiful cliffs and everywhere its green. Sadly i didnt have no tea time. I love scones with clotted creamOssyrules wrote:Fair enough you did actually say elite. You're still over looking many factors in that fight to conclude that he struggled vs tall elite fighters.Jip wrote:Read what i wrote...Ossyrules wrote:
Show me where I say grant is better than Joshua. You say he struggled vs tall fighters as he lost rounds vs Vitali. You're talking shite mate and are showing your lack of knowledge here.
Lennoxs pro career is pretty spot on. Beat everyone and if he had a weakness it was he overlooked opponents are a few occasions, and it cost him defeat twice. When focussed he was formidable.
You have a short memory. Or you only started following boxing last few years?
I said lewis was beating smaller guys and once he faced a tall elite opponent he was losing rounds. Vitaly is tall elite. Grant is tall okay boxer far from elite ...u just overlooked the small but important word elite.
U from ireland..they were all saying shyte haha..was their for vac 1 week ago. Loved the breakfast and the fresh air
Not from Ireland but have some Irish blood from grandparents! Cockney mate
Not really. Id say a persons athletic prime is probably between 27 and 31. Give or take a bit.asdfjkl wrote:34 is pretty much your prime right?IT wrote:Lewis was also like 38 when he fought and beat Vitali. He was 34 when he beat Holyfield. He was hardly in his prime himself.
Yup! I agree with that. Depending on when yu start you're career too.. for example Luis Ortiz? What was/his prime?IT wrote:Not really. Id say a persons athletic prime is probably between 27 and 31. Give or take a bit.asdfjkl wrote:34 is pretty much your prime right?IT wrote:Lewis was also like 38 when he fought and beat Vitali. He was 34 when he beat Holyfield. He was hardly in his prime himself.
Oké, so Wladimir Klitschko lost half of his matches in his prime? And won for 10 years after his prime?IT wrote:Not really. Id say a persons athletic prime is probably between 27 and 31. Give or take a bit.asdfjkl wrote:34 is pretty much your prime right?IT wrote:Lewis was also like 38 when he fought and beat Vitali. He was 34 when he beat Holyfield. He was hardly in his prime himself.
people peak at (very) different times.IT wrote:Not really. Id say a persons athletic prime is probably between 27 and 31. Give or take a bit.asdfjkl wrote:34 is pretty much your prime right?IT wrote:Lewis was also like 38 when he fought and beat Vitali. He was 34 when he beat Holyfield. He was hardly in his prime himself.
That's complete nonsense... Total bias against non-American Heavyweights ... The Sport has gone GLOBAL ...TOP 35 HEAVYWEIGHTS TODAY LIST...man wrote:that's not only not nonsense, thatJip wrote:Nonsenseman wrote:everybody agreed back then that it was
a talent rich environment. no one thinks
that now. so unless some great prospects
enter, we will never know ...
is pretty much undisputed.
Your prime is when you are at your best and is unique to the individual. That being said there are trends that can be noted and not many athletes are in their prime in their early 20s or late 30's. That's still pretty rare in global terms.asdfjkl wrote:Oké, so Wladimir Klitschko lost half of his matches in his prime? And won for 10 years after his prime?IT wrote:Not really. Id say a persons athletic prime is probably between 27 and 31. Give or take a bit.asdfjkl wrote: 34 is pretty much your prime right?
Povetkin, Pulev, Haye have all been beaten after his prime?
Oké, nice.
Wilder has his prime in the past 4 years? Actually, there are only 2 boxers in the top 20 in their prime right now? The rest is all getting old?