Calzaghe ponders Jones, Beyer, even Toney - but not KESSLER

[Autobarn]

Kessler is another hyped fighter that may be problematic, but has never been in with a quality fighter like Joe, it is just LAcy all over again. Anyone who doesn't think Joe is the top man at SM needs their head checking, so what good does a fight against Kessler get Joe, there is more money and prestige for him to fight at Light Heavy, or if he stays at SM less risk and more money to fight Beyer (who will duck him anyway), Kessler wants to fight Joe, but there is no reason for Joe to fight Kessler.

Mundine is a better figher than every single of the hand-selected opponents Calzaghe has clobbered in his entire career. Plus Kessler fought him abroad.

mundine is not better than Lacy, Brewer, Mitchell, Reid, Woodhall. he's better than Sheika and an old but game Eubank, and you can make a case that he's the same level as Woodhall and Reid. but look how much better Reid was vs Ottke than Mundine was. Mundine got KTFO!

[pundit]

Kessler is another hyped fighter that may be problematic, but has never been in with a quality fighter like Joe, it is just LAcy all over again. Anyone who doesn't think Joe is the top man at SM needs their head checking, so what good does a fight against Kessler get Joe, there is more money and prestige for him to fight at Light Heavy, or if he stays at SM less risk and more money to fight Beyer (who will duck him anyway), Kessler wants to fight Joe, but there is no reason for Joe to fight Kessler.

Mundine is a better figher than every single of the hand-selected opponents Calzaghe has clobbered in his entire career. Plus Kessler fought him abroad.

mundine is not better than Lacy, Brewer, Mitchell, Reid, Woodhall. he's better than Sheika and an old but game Eubank, and you can make a case that he's the same level as Woodhall and Reid. but look how much better Reid was vs Ottke than Mundine was. Mundine got KTFO!

I beg to differ. All the Calzaghe-opponents except Reid were hand-selected for his style; and Mitchell, Brewer, Woodhall were over the hill.

Now I'm not saying that Calzaghe is bad or anything. This would obviously be a silly thing to say. But I am saying that Calzaghe is a fighter with a few exceptional strenghts - handspeed, chin, grit - and that during his entire career his opponents have been selected carefully to play into his strenghts. Lacy is no exception, quite in contrast: he's the biggest coup Calzaghe's manager has landed: a taylor-made opponent with the right passport and an undeservedly big reputation.

As far as I am concnerned, Calzaghe needs to step out of his comfort zone if he wants to be called a great - and Kessler would be such a step (btw, a 168 Toney would be such a step BIG time... ).

Besides, you can't compare Ottke-Mundine with Ottke-Reid. When Ottke fought Reid his legs had slowed, he wasn't half the fighter compared to 2000/01. Plus, Mundine had only 10 pro fights when taking on Ottke. And then, don't forget that Kessler gave up home advantage to fight Mundine in Australia. He stepped out of his comfort zone.

Btw, my original comment was in reaction to the statement "Kessler is Lacy all over again", where I am pretty certain that you don't share it.

Cheers, P

[Coconut]

You're right on the Ottke - Reid vs Ottke - Mundine comparisons. You can't compare a fight where the 'away' boxer gets warned for having the temerity to punch the 'hoe' fighter to anything.

You're making noise about Kessler, most people who know boxing well thnk he's a good name, but Kessler, with two fights in 18 months, one against a decent contender with chin questions the other against a 35-year-old guy who's not beaten a 'name' since the early 2000s, is quite simply not banging his drum hard enough. It's up to punters in the incredibly insular world of internet boxing to state his case because by fighting so infrequently and by staying so firmly in Denmark, Kessler's doing very very little to advance his case. If he wanted Calzaghe, boxing guys who are better than fringe and doing so on a bigger stage (dare I say it, coming to the UK...) would do wonders to advance his cause. Fair play for him to go to Aussie for Mundine but at the moment that just looks like a calculated risk rather than a statement of intent to chase big fights.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kessler's decent, but for Calzaghe to fight him now would be an act of charity that is just not going to happen.

[Autobarn]

Mundine is a better figher than every single of the hand-selected opponents Calzaghe has clobbered in his entire career. Plus Kessler fought him abroad.

mundine is not better than Lacy, Brewer, Mitchell, Reid, Woodhall. he's better than Sheika and an old but game Eubank, and you can make a case that he's the same level as Woodhall and Reid. but look how much better Reid was vs Ottke than Mundine was. Mundine got KTFO!

I beg to differ. All the Calzaghe-opponents except Reid were hand-selected for his style; and Mitchell, Brewer, Woodhall were over the hill.

Now I'm not saying that Calzaghe is bad or anything. This would obviously be a silly thing to say. But I am saying that Calzaghe is a fighter with a few exceptional strenghts - handspeed, chin, grit - and that during his entire career his opponents have been selected carefully to play into his strenghts. Lacy is no exception, quite in contrast: he's the biggest coup Calzaghe's manager has landed: a taylor-made opponent with the right passport and an undeservedly big reputation.

As far as I am concnerned, Calzaghe needs to step out of his comfort zone if he wants to be called a great - and Kessler would be such a step (btw, a 168 Toney would be such a step BIG time... ).

Besides, you can't compare Ottke-Mundine with Ottke-Reid. When Ottke fought Reid his legs had slowed, he wasn't half the fighter compared to 2000/01. Plus, Mundine had only 10 pro fights when taking on Ottke. And then, don't forget that Kessler gave up home advantage to fight Mundine in Australia. He stepped out of his comfort zone.

Btw, my original comment was in reaction to the statement "Kessler is Lacy all over again", where I am pretty certain that you don't share it.

Cheers, P

i certainly think Reid is a good name to have on JC's record. if he had as many good counter punchers as he had pure punchers on his record, yes Joe's ledger would be more complete. Kessler does fit in there well, I'm not so sure of Mundine (who holds fewer good wins at world class than Reid, and doesn't always take a shot so well).


i think Kessler could be a difficult fight to make - I doubt JC can have great money and home advantage with MK. Glen Johnson would be an easy fight to make. Ppl will disagree with this, but Woods has been boxing close to Kessler's level in his last two fights and CW-JC would be a great domestic battle

like i say, Glen would take a Calzaghe fight anytime anywhere. it'd be a real test as GJ is developing a good style to beat lefties.

Calzaghe seems to have a thig about fighting for Woods' IBF belt, and I hope Warren's feelings toward dealing with FA don't affect that. Woods has developed into a solid boxer on the outside. hopefully we see one or more of these fights

[pundit]

i certainly think Reid is a good name to have on JC's record. if he had as many good counter punchers as he had pure punchers on his record, yes Joe's ledger would be more complete. Kessler does fit in there well, I'm not so sure of Mundine (who holds fewer good wins at world class than Reid, and doesn't always take a shot so well).

I concede Reid. But this was a long time ago and a fight that Calzaghe almost lost.

i think Kessler could be a difficult fight to make - I doubt JC can have great money and home advantage with MK. Glen Johnson would be an easy fight to make. Ppl will disagree with this, but Woods has been boxing close to Kessler's level in his last two fights and CW-JC would be a great domestic battle

like i say, Glen would take a Calzaghe fight anytime anywhere. it'd be a real test as GJ is developing a good style to beat lefties.

Calzaghe seems to have a thig about fighting for Woods' IBF belt, and I hope Warren's feelings toward dealing with FA don't affect that. Woods has developed into a solid boxer on the outside. hopefully we see one or more of these fights

Woods is OK, certainly better than RJJ at this juncture, and it would be a big fight for Britain. But it's not the kind of challenge that I'd like to see...

It would just bug me if Calzaghe would leave the 168 division with a win over hand-selected Lacy and declare that his job there had been finished. Because it hasn't.

Cheers,
P

[tonyevs]

I don`t think any here are seriously trying to say Calzaghe is anything other than the top guy in his division...but he really needs to clear up the one guy who stirs a little suspicion and doubt.

The fights at lt-heavy are all celebrity fights because anybody who`s anybody there are so old..Woods, Jones, Johnson or Tarver...and I can`t imagine any being a good fight to watch..maybe except Johnson but the fact is they are more names than substance

With the hype following Joes great win over Lacy he can sell out the Millenium stadium whoever he fights next...let it be Kessler

[Max Molyneux]

Pundit, Pundit Pundit.

Mitchell just came off a loss to Ottke which doesn't mean he was over the hill and if he was Ottke should of done better.

And the Ottke that Mundine fought was being outboxed then till he knocked Mundine out. I hope you don't think Ottke was better than Joe as he was worse than Joe for wanting homeground.

Kessler should have to come over here if he wants it and make some noise too since Joe's the bigger draw and name and he'll make better money probably.

You say Calzaghe can't step out of his comfort zone yet you forget neither does Mundine.Or you refuse to achknowledge that thus contradicting it maybe.

Mundine is not better than most of Calzaghe's good opp btw either.

Fighting out of home ground once doesn't mean he'll keep doing it, Calzaghe has only done it twice.

Home ground meaning much can be overated sometimes.

[Autobarn]

i certainly think Reid is a good name to have on JC's record. if he had as many good counter punchers as he had pure punchers on his record, yes Joe's ledger would be more complete. Kessler does fit in there well, I'm not so sure of Mundine (who holds fewer good wins at world class than Reid, and doesn't always take a shot so well).

I concede Reid. But this was a long time ago and a fight that Calzaghe almost lost.

i think Kessler could be a difficult fight to make - I doubt JC can have great money and home advantage with MK. Glen Johnson would be an easy fight to make. Ppl will disagree with this, but Woods has been boxing close to Kessler's level in his last two fights and CW-JC would be a great domestic battle

like i say, Glen would take a Calzaghe fight anytime anywhere. it'd be a real test as GJ is developing a good style to beat lefties.

Calzaghe seems to have a thig about fighting for Woods' IBF belt, and I hope Warren's feelings toward dealing with FA don't affect that. Woods has developed into a solid boxer on the outside. hopefully we see one or more of these fights

Woods is OK, certainly better than RJJ at this juncture, and it would be a big fight for Britain. But it's not the kind of challenge that I'd like to see...

It would just bug me if Calzaghe would leave the 168 division with a win over hand-selected Lacy and declare that his job there had been finished. Because it hasn't.

Cheers,
P

I think Clinton has developed an excellent style, he looks fit, has a great balance and knows quite a lot of tricks. Adamek would be great - but DK must raise this man's profile.

Thing is with Kessler, he's shown some brilliant boxing ability, but he didn't beat Mundine by many rounds. Kessler was injured for Mundine like Calzaghe had some problem vs Reid (elbow injury i think).

I noticed that Kessler hasn't fought many guys who can bang. In his last 5 fights he's not really stooped to the shit foes that SN sometimes line up for Calzaghe, but his chin hasn't been tested. Calzaghe's got Mitchell, Lacy and Brewer on his record.

brewer was still good and mitchell wasn't a retread. also, it's sound business sense to bring over a dethroned champ - they're desperate and easier to deal with.

both men lost very close fights to Ottke - indeed, in rd 12 Mitchell had Ottke looking almost like Beyer in rd 12 vs Green 2. Calzaghe must've won 9 rds vs brewer, and finished off Mitchell with a huge barrage - ppl complain of an early stoppage but it was like 50 unanswered shots

[pundit]

i certainly think Reid is a good name to have on JC's record. if he had as many good counter punchers as he had pure punchers on his record, yes Joe's ledger would be more complete. Kessler does fit in there well, I'm not so sure of Mundine (who holds fewer good wins at world class than Reid, and doesn't always take a shot so well).

I concede Reid. But this was a long time ago and a fight that Calzaghe almost lost.

i think Kessler could be a difficult fight to make - I doubt JC can have great money and home advantage with MK. Glen Johnson would be an easy fight to make. Ppl will disagree with this, but Woods has been boxing close to Kessler's level in his last two fights and CW-JC would be a great domestic battle

like i say, Glen would take a Calzaghe fight anytime anywhere. it'd be a real test as GJ is developing a good style to beat lefties.

Calzaghe seems to have a thig about fighting for Woods' IBF belt, and I hope Warren's feelings toward dealing with FA don't affect that. Woods has developed into a solid boxer on the outside. hopefully we see one or more of these fights

Woods is OK, certainly better than RJJ at this juncture, and it would be a big fight for Britain. But it's not the kind of challenge that I'd like to see...

It would just bug me if Calzaghe would leave the 168 division with a win over hand-selected Lacy and declare that his job there had been finished. Because it hasn't.

Cheers,
P

I think Clinton has developed an excellent style, he looks fit, has a great balance and knows quite a lot of tricks. Adamek would be great - but DK must raise this man's profile.

Thing is with Kessler, he's shown some brilliant boxing ability, but he didn't beat Mundine by many rounds. Kessler was injured for Mundine like Calzaghe had some problem vs Reid (elbow injury i think).

I noticed that Kessler hasn't fought many guys who can bang. In his last 5 fights he's not really stooped to the shit foes that SN sometimes line up for Calzaghe, but his chin hasn't been tested. Calzaghe's got Mitchell, Lacy and Brewer on his record.

brewer was still good and mitchell wasn't a retread. also, it's sound business sense to bring over a dethroned champ - they're desperate and easier to deal with.

both men lost very close fights to Ottke - indeed, in rd 12 Mitchell had Ottke looking almost like Beyer in rd 12 vs Green 2. Calzaghe must've won 9 rds vs brewer, and finished off Mitchell with a huge barrage - ppl complain of an early stoppage but it was like 50 unanswered shots

Well, Mitchell-Ottke wasn't really close. Ottke led by a mile after 9, 10 rounds, then gave the last rounds away.

But anyway, there isn't much that I disagree with. Sure, Kessler hasn't fought too many big punchers, but then he hasn't been on the scene as a serious contender for very long. Hence, of course Kessler has more work to do than Calzaghe is he wants to establish himself as the undisputed #1 at s-m. This notwithstanding, Calzaghe also has significant work to do as well - beating hand-selected Lacy, as impressive as the victory was, doesn't mean he's done.

Cheers,
P

[Autobarn]

I concede Reid. But this was a long time ago and a fight that Calzaghe almost lost.
Woods is OK, certainly better than RJJ at this juncture, and it would be a big fight for Britain. But it's not the kind of challenge that I'd like to see...

It would just bug me if Calzaghe would leave the 168 division with a win over hand-selected Lacy and declare that his job there had been finished. Because it hasn't.

Cheers,
P

I think Clinton has developed an excellent style, he looks fit, has a great balance and knows quite a lot of tricks. Adamek would be great - but DK must raise this man's profile.

Thing is with Kessler, he's shown some brilliant boxing ability, but he didn't beat Mundine by many rounds. Kessler was injured for Mundine like Calzaghe had some problem vs Reid (elbow injury i think).

I noticed that Kessler hasn't fought many guys who can bang. In his last 5 fights he's not really stooped to the shit foes that SN sometimes line up for Calzaghe, but his chin hasn't been tested. Calzaghe's got Mitchell, Lacy and Brewer on his record.

brewer was still good and mitchell wasn't a retread. also, it's sound business sense to bring over a dethroned champ - they're desperate and easier to deal with.

both men lost very close fights to Ottke - indeed, in rd 12 Mitchell had Ottke looking almost like Beyer in rd 12 vs Green 2. Calzaghe must've won 9 rds vs brewer, and finished off Mitchell with a huge barrage - ppl complain of an early stoppage but it was like 50 unanswered shots

Well, Mitchell-Ottke wasn't really close. Ottke led by a mile after 9, 10 rounds, then gave the last rounds away.

But anyway, there isn't much that I disagree with. Sure, Kessler hasn't fought too many big punchers, but then he hasn't been on the scene as a serious contender for very long. Hence, of course Kessler has more work to do than Calzaghe is he wants to establish himself as the undisputed #1 at s-m. This notwithstanding, Calzaghe also has significant work to do as well - beating hand-selected Lacy, as impressive as the victory was, doesn't mean he's done.

Cheers,
P

an interesting way of looking at calzaghe's body of work is he beat the best americans (lacy, brewer, byron mitchell, sheika) and the best brits (reid, woodhall, starie, eubank). that's pretty impressive to me. europe is the missing link, as there are lots of good-excellent fighters around (kessler, beyer, larsen, markussen).

thing with Kessler is, you have to wonder what he'll be like when an opponent takes his jab away. Granted, Mundine is pretty slick and learned well from RJJ's dad, but that head movement really broke MK's rhythm. I know it was slightly subpar Kessler, and he deserves credit for even beating the guy in Oz, but it makes you wonder.

kessler could go on to be a great fighter, but a lot of the men he's faced couldn't slip his jabs. i don't think he's the complete package just yet

[pundit]

an interesting way of looking at calzaghe's body of work is he beat the best americans (lacy, brewer, byron mitchell, sheika) and the best brits (reid, woodhall, starie, eubank). that's pretty impressive to me. europe is the missing link, as there are lots of good-excellent fighters around (kessler, beyer, larsen, markussen).

Money will be part of the answer. Euro fighters get paid big bucks at home, so they won't come to Cardiff for a slice of bread.

thing with Kessler is, you have to wonder what he'll be like when an opponent takes his jab away. Granted, Mundine is pretty slick and learned well from RJJ's dad, but that head movement really broke MK's rhythm. I know it was slightly subpar Kessler, and he deserves credit for even beating the guy in Oz, but it makes you wonder.

Hmmmm, who at s-m can slip a jab even better than Mundine? Well, perhaps Beyer. But who else? Certainly not Calzaghe. Which would make that matchup intreaguing. How could Calzaghe maneuver himself into his comfort half-distance zone against Kessler?

kessler could go on to be a great fighter, but a lot of the men he's faced couldn't slip his jabs. i don't think he's the complete package just yet

He looks pretty complete to me, but let's see - I hope he gets a chance to prove it. I agree that it would be interesting to see how Kessler deals with a pressure fighter with a big punch. Kessler-Lacy could actually have been interesting. Lacy was outboxed by Vanderpool before he broke Vanderpoool down, by sheer strenght and pressure. Now, Kessler is better than Vanderpool. Thus I doubt Lacy could break him down - probably Kessler could keep Lacy at bay most of the time with his jab and good footwork, mixing it up with the occasional stiff cross. But it would hardly be the same mismatch as Lacy-Calzaghe.

P

[jamesmcdonnell]

Bloody annoying, got a DVD of Kessler from one of his associates, but I can't watch it as my PC DVD player is on the blinkoid and it won't play on my normal DVD player.

[Loftgroov]

Pundit – if Calzaghe did fight and beat Kessler, who would you then suddenly decide is the man Calzaghe has been dodging and needs to fight to prove himself?

You give the impression there will always be “someone”, and no matter who he fights and beats you won’t give him any credit. I suppose if Calzaghe were a yank we’d never hear from you. Your whole argument is nothing more than a thinly veiled anti-British agenda.

[pundit]

Pundit – if Calzaghe did fight and beat Kessler, who would you then suddenly decide is the man Calzaghe has been dodging and needs to fight to prove himself?

If Calzaghe would FIGHT Kessler - no matter whether he wins or loses - my respect for him would skyrocket.

Cheers, P

[fist]

Pundit – if Calzaghe did fight and beat Kessler, who would you then suddenly decide is the man Calzaghe has been dodging and needs to fight to prove himself?

If Calzaghe would FIGHT Kessler - no matter whether he wins or loses - my respect for him would skyrocket.

Cheers, P

Pundit, your comments on this thread have been a lot more constructive and reasonable than in previous threads were you didn't acknowledge Calzaghe's achievements and ability. Its good to hear you giving Calzaghe credit and also explaining your thoughts on Kessler and a Kessler / Calzaghe match-up.

Plus you seemed to have eased up on the constant use of that tightly bundled phrase regarding Lacy being 'hand selected'. You've explained your reasoning for this and fair enough its your opinion, but the constant use of that statement previously in all your posts seemed a quite desperate and primitive way of diminishing the scale of Joe's oustanding performance - at times you seemed to use this subjective perspective rather obsessively as a way of describing and simultaniously undermining Joe's win. Its good to hear you explaining things in more depth and with more openness. :)

[Max Molyneux]

Kessler needs more than a nice jab to outbox Calzaghe like he did with Lucas!

Nice speed but he would be average without it.

He would be harder than Lacy but Joe would still win.

Kessler would probably beat Lacy too but not as dominent.

[dumdane]

You're right on the Ottke - Reid vs Ottke - Mundine comparisons. You can't compare a fight where the 'away' boxer gets warned for having the temerity to punch the 'hoe' fighter to anything.

You're making noise about Kessler, most people who know boxing well thnk he's a good name, but Kessler, with two fights in 18 months, one against a decent contender with chin questions the other against a 35-year-old guy who's not beaten a 'name' since the early 2000s, is quite simply not banging his drum hard enough. It's up to punters in the incredibly insular world of internet boxing to state his case because by fighting so infrequently and by staying so firmly in Denmark, Kessler's doing very very little to advance his case. If he wanted Calzaghe, boxing guys who are better than fringe and doing so on a bigger stage (dare I say it, coming to the UK...) would do wonders to advance his cause. Fair play for him to go to Aussie for Mundine but at the moment that just looks like a calculated risk rather than a statement of intent to chase big fights.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kessler's decent, but for Calzaghe to fight him now would be an act of charity that is just not going to happen.

Two reasons why Kessler isn't "banging his drums enough" as you say.

1. Kessler suffered severe back-injury leading up to the Mundine fight. The fight was postponed only a month (Kessler's manager didn't dare cancel fearing they would be stripped by the WBA - small promotors can't work the sanctioning bodies like a more influential promotor could). But Kesler was severely hampered (movement) and in very poor physical shape for the Mundine fight. After the fight he had to take a long break to get the back-problem under control.

2. Kessler's promotor is for whatever reason unable to make meaningfull fights happen.
It's certainly not in Kessler's interest OR Team Palle's (the promoters) to do nothing. Palle is in dire financial trouble and NEED to make things happen.
For years they've been offering to fight everyone - Ottke, Beyer, Lacy and Calzaghe. They've been willing to travel. But every time they've been told their demands were too high. Well couple of years ago they actually offered to fight in Germany FOR FREE, but was still turned down. (Can't remember if it was Ottke or Beyer)
Last fall - WHEN KESSLER WAS INJURED - Calzaghe suddenly offers Kessler a fight in Wales with short notice (only time Calzaghe has ever expressed even remote interest in fighting Kessler. Well being injured Kessler couldn't take the fight. But the most interesting thing is, that apparently Calzaghe only offered Kessler 50.000 US$ to bring his WBA-belt to Wales. Well after Kessler had turned down the offer both Pemberton and Mundine did the same. Finally Warren found Ewans Ashira who was willing to fight for peanuts.

Im just asking - Is offering an injured legit belt-holder 50.000 $ to fight away from home with short notice to be considered a serious proposition?
Even if Kessler isn't a big draw my guess is Calzaghe would have made AT LEAST 10 times as much.

To me it's no more serious than when Calzaghe is now calling out Toney to fight at SMW. But as someone said, it is a "safe" call.

Anyway. Bottom line is that Kessler NEEDS to make fights happen if he wants to go anywhere. But for some reason he CAN'T make 'em happen.

Some would say it's because he isn't good enough. I'm inclined to believe the real reason is quite the opposite.

[pundit]

Two reasons why Kessler isn't "banging his drums enough" as you say.

1. Kessler suffered severe back-injury leading up to the Mundine fight. The fight was postponed only a month (Kessler's manager didn't dare cancel fearing they would be stripped by the WBA - small promotors can't work the sanctioning bodies like a more influential promotor could). But Kesler was severely hampered (movement) and in very poor physical shape for the Mundine fight. After the fight he had to take a long break to get the back-problem under control.

2. Kessler's promotor is for whatever reason unable to make meaningfull fights happen.
It's certainly not in Kessler's interest OR Team Palle's (the promoters) to do nothing. Palle is in dire financial trouble and NEED to make things happen.
For years they've been offering to fight everyone - Ottke, Beyer, Lacy and Calzaghe. They've been willing to travel. But every time they've been told their demands were too high. Well couple of years ago they actually offered to fight in Germany FOR FREE, but was still turned down. (Can't remember if it was Ottke or Beyer)
Last fall - WHEN KESSLER WAS INJURED - Calzaghe suddenly offers Kessler a fight in Wales with short notice (only time Calzaghe has ever expressed even remote interest in fighting Kessler. Well being injured Kessler couldn't take the fight. But the most interesting thing is, that apparently Calzaghe only offered Kessler 50.000 US$ to bring his WBA-belt to Wales. Well after Kessler had turned down the offer both Pemberton and Mundine did the same. Finally Warren found Ewans Ashira who was willing to fight for peanuts.

Im just asking - Is offering an injured legit belt-holder 50.000 $ to fight away from home with short notice to be considered a serious proposition?
Even if Kessler isn't a big draw my guess is Calzaghe would have made AT LEAST 10 times as much.

To me it's no more serious than when Calzaghe is now calling out Toney to fight at SMW. But as someone said, it is a "safe" call.

Anyway. Bottom line is that Kessler NEEDS to make fights happen if he wants to go anywhere. But for some reason he CAN'T make 'em happen.

Some would say it's because he isn't good enough. I'm inclined to believe the real reason is quite the opposite.

Two coms. First: making unpleasant opponents insulting offers - and claiming subsequently that they would duck - has been an often-used strategy by F.rank Warren. The potential Calzaghe opponents on which he has applied this is too long to list, but it includes Ottke, Hopkins, Mundine, Kessler, and now also Beyer.

Second: if Team Palle can't get Kessler good fights, why doesn't he change promoter? Sauerland for example has a reputation of mixing his fighters up with the right opposition. Sure, Kessler would have to move from a Danish to a German stable, but Kessler has outgrown the Danish market anyway, and this may in fact be part of the problem.

Cheers, P

[Loynesy]

Having sat ringside and watched Kessler fight (and seen appoximately 10 of his fights on DVD), I simply don't understand the logic of him being the roadblock to Calzaghe being number one at Super Middleweight. He has a ramrod jab, but as he throws it, there isn't much else coming with it. I would have thought the template to beat him is a southpaw with fast handspeed who can slip the jab and return with a left cross...

Not dissing Kessler at all, just have seen nothing in his fights to make me think he is elite level. Team Calzaghe clearly think this, coupled with the fact he brings nothing to the fight economically, means they will almost certainly never fight, but this certainly doesn't mean Calzaghe is ducking him.

[Freiheit]

Two coms. First: making unpleasant opponents insulting offers - and claiming subsequently that they would duck - has been an often-used strategy by F.rank Warren. The potential Calzaghe opponents on which he has applied this is too long to list, but it includes Ottke, Hopkins, Mundine, Kessler, and now also Beyer.

Second: if Team Palle can't get Kessler good fights, why doesn't he change promoter? Sauerland for example has a reputation of mixing his fighters up with the right opposition. Sure, Kessler would have to move from a Danish to a German stable, but Kessler has outgrown the Danish market anyway, and this may in fact be part of the problem.

Cheers, P

Kessler cant just move to another stable, its written in his contract that he cant switch stables as long as he is rated (Thats why Mads Larsen havent fourght for a long time since he wanted out of the contract, and he cant fight until he is no longer rated)

[dumdane]

Two reasons why Kessler isn't "banging his drums enough" as you say.

1. Kessler suffered severe back-injury leading up to the Mundine fight. The fight was postponed only a month (Kessler's manager didn't dare cancel fearing they would be stripped by the WBA - small promotors can't work the sanctioning bodies like a more influential promotor could). But Kesler was severely hampered (movement) and in very poor physical shape for the Mundine fight. After the fight he had to take a long break to get the back-problem under control.

2. Kessler's promotor is for whatever reason unable to make meaningfull fights happen.
It's certainly not in Kessler's interest OR Team Palle's (the promoters) to do nothing. Palle is in dire financial trouble and NEED to make things happen.
For years they've been offering to fight everyone - Ottke, Beyer, Lacy and Calzaghe. They've been willing to travel. But every time they've been told their demands were too high. Well couple of years ago they actually offered to fight in Germany FOR FREE, but was still turned down. (Can't remember if it was Ottke or Beyer)
Last fall - WHEN KESSLER WAS INJURED - Calzaghe suddenly offers Kessler a fight in Wales with short notice (only time Calzaghe has ever expressed even remote interest in fighting Kessler. Well being injured Kessler couldn't take the fight. But the most interesting thing is, that apparently Calzaghe only offered Kessler 50.000 US$ to bring his WBA-belt to Wales. Well after Kessler had turned down the offer both Pemberton and Mundine did the same. Finally Warren found Ewans Ashira who was willing to fight for peanuts.

Im just asking - Is offering an injured legit belt-holder 50.000 $ to fight away from home with short notice to be considered a serious proposition?
Even if Kessler isn't a big draw my guess is Calzaghe would have made AT LEAST 10 times as much.

To me it's no more serious than when Calzaghe is now calling out Toney to fight at SMW. But as someone said, it is a "safe" call.

Anyway. Bottom line is that Kessler NEEDS to make fights happen if he wants to go anywhere. But for some reason he CAN'T make 'em happen.

Some would say it's because he isn't good enough. I'm inclined to believe the real reason is quite the opposite.

Two coms. First: making unpleasant opponents insulting offers - and claiming subsequently that they would duck - has been an often-used strategy by F.rank Warren. The potential Calzaghe opponents on which he has applied this is too long to list, but it includes Ottke, Hopkins, Mundine, Kessler, and now also Beyer.

Second: if Team Palle can't get Kessler good fights, why doesn't he change promoter? Sauerland for example has a reputation of mixing his fighters up with the right opposition. Sure, Kessler would have to move from a Danish to a German stable, but Kessler has outgrown the Danish market anyway, and this may in fact be part of the problem.

Cheers, P

I agree it would make much sense for Kessler at this stage to get another promotor. Unfortunately doing so would almost certainly put his career completely on hold for more than a year.
Team-Palle's contracts are notoriously difficult to get out of. (just look at the case of Mads Larsen who has FINALLY been released of his contract - but who's otherwise promissing career is in ruins).
Chances are Kessler would not be able to fight again untill dropped out of all major rankings. That's a very big decission to make - and a very big gamble.

To some extend Team-Palle's approach is understandable since they've invested heavilly in the talent that Kessler repressents. Almost to this stage in his career you could really say Palle has been the perfect promotional platform for Kessler.
Problem is that there's no way they're gonna let him off the hook easy now. They wan't to harvest the fruits of their investment.
I suspect they'd rather see his career go to waste than see Kessler go elsewhere and be succesfull (judging from the Larsen-case... and others).

Something about making a statement about "what would happen if..." to their other fighters.

You may wonder why any fighter would ever get involved with an outfit like Palle. But in Denmark there's basicly no alternative if you want to be a pro-boxer. And i do think they do a good job for a developing fighter. They (Team Palle) just don't have what it takes to make it to the next level and play ball with the real big guys in the buisiness.

[pundit]

Two coms. First: making unpleasant opponents insulting offers - and claiming subsequently that they would duck - has been an often-used strategy by F.rank Warren. The potential Calzaghe opponents on which he has applied this is too long to list, but it includes Ottke, Hopkins, Mundine, Kessler, and now also Beyer.

Second: if Team Palle can't get Kessler good fights, why doesn't he change promoter? Sauerland for example has a reputation of mixing his fighters up with the right opposition. Sure, Kessler would have to move from a Danish to a German stable, but Kessler has outgrown the Danish market anyway, and this may in fact be part of the problem.

Cheers, P

Kessler cant just move to another stable, its written in his contract that he cant switch stables as long as he is rated (Thats why Mads Larsen havent fourght for a long time since he wanted out of the contract, and he cant fight until he is no longer rated)

Is this legal?

[Freiheit]

Thats the question, it have never been tried in court. The couple of times where there have been problems (Mads Larsen & Dennis Holbæk) the case have been settled a day or two before the trial, but the figters have then wasted a couple of years.

[dumdane]

Having sat ringside and watched Kessler fight (and seen appoximately 10 of his fights on DVD), I simply don't understand the logic of him being the roadblock to Calzaghe being number one at Super Middleweight. He has a ramrod jab, but as he throws it, there isn't much else coming with it. I would have thought the template to beat him is a southpaw with fast handspeed who can slip the jab and return with a left cross...

Not dissing Kessler at all, just have seen nothing in his fights to make me think he is elite level. Team Calzaghe clearly think this, coupled with the fact he brings nothing to the fight economically, means they will almost certainly never fight, but this certainly doesn't mean Calzaghe is ducking him.

If Kessler was not a risk, it wouldn't be a problem that he can't bring anything to the table in terms of economy. Calzaghe has dispersed of plenty of no-names - free of charge - so why not Kessler.

If Kessler could bring something to the table it wouldn't be as much of a problem that he's a risk - It could be a worthwile risk (Lacy was such a worthwile risk - though in retrospect not as much as expected).

Problem is being a risk and not being able to bring much to the table is NOT what Calzaghe is looking for (neither what Calzaghes FANS are looking for it seems).

As for your assessment of Kessler's abilities - to put it shortly - I disagree!
And please remember that Calzaghe hasn't always looked as impressive as he did against Lacy. I think lately some people has been viewing Calzaghe in a light that's a bit too flatering - whereas before the Lacy fight many were being too hard on him (at least in terms of his skills - maybe not so about his behaviour and accomplishments).

[Loynesy]

Having sat ringside and watched Kessler fight (and seen appoximately 10 of his fights on DVD), I simply don't understand the logic of him being the roadblock to Calzaghe being number one at Super Middleweight. He has a ramrod jab, but as he throws it, there isn't much else coming with it. I would have thought the template to beat him is a southpaw with fast handspeed who can slip the jab and return with a left cross...

Not dissing Kessler at all, just have seen nothing in his fights to make me think he is elite level. Team Calzaghe clearly think this, coupled with the fact he brings nothing to the fight economically, means they will almost certainly never fight, but this certainly doesn't mean Calzaghe is ducking him.

If Kessler was not a risk, it wouldn't be a problem that he can't bring anything to the table in terms of economy. Calzaghe has dispersed of plenty of no-names - free of charge - so why not Kessler.

If Kessler could bring something to the table it wouldn't be as much of a problem that he's a risk - It could be a worthwile risk (Lacy was such a worthwile risk - though in retrospect not as much as expected).

Problem is being a risk and not being able to bring much to the table is NOT what Calzaghe is looking for (neither what Calzaghes FANS are looking for it seems).

As for your assessment of Kessler's abilities - to put it shortly - I disagree!
And please remember that Calzaghe hasn't always looked as impressive as he did against Lacy. I think lately some people has been viewing Calzaghe in a light that's a bit too flatering - whereas before the Lacy fight many were being too hard on him (at least in terms of his skills - maybe not so about his behaviour and accomplishments).

Fair points Dumdane. We will have to agree to disagree. I simply think Calzaghe would beat Kessler with ease and think Kessler has done nothing to justify potential #1 at Super Middle.