Billy Graham - Preacher or Prick?

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:42

So Billy 'The Preacher' Graham went all the way to New York with Matthew Macklin only to refuse to let him fight when the opponent scaled 168 lbs.

Hard to complain when Macklin and Graham agreed and signed a contract stating that the fight was made at guess what? 168 lbs.

And to think that Graham tries to manage fighters as well as train them.

I wonder why the Hatton roadshow is looking so shaky with Billy at the helm

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:47

Does sound odd alright. He was also in the corner of Gomez during that extremely odd stoppage in Dublin a couple of months back where Gomez just dropped his hands and turned his back to the punches.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:51

I think Boxingchat having a dig at Graham is akin to one of those times when you have an annoying toddler trying to kick you in the shins and you just reach out a hand and place it on their head while they flail away harmlessly

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:53

Cannibal wrote:Does sound odd alright. He was also in the corner of Gomez during that extremely odd stoppage in Dublin a couple of months back where Gomez just dropped his hands and turned his back to the punches.

He's a fraud alway's has been. Bobby Rimmer done all the work and Billy took all the glory and the cash.

A decent corner man granted but he has to take the blame for the mess that is now Team Hatton. Funny think is, Papa Hatton wanted himm out two years ago in favour of Manny Steward but it was Warren that kept him his job.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:53

That aint the full story BC and you know it.

Macklin and Graham had agreed to weigh in the day before officially, then a re-weigh on the day to check weight gain. This formed part of the fight contract.

Troupe's people refused the check weigh in and this sent alarm bells ringing in the Macklin camp. Off the record Troupe's people admitted he would have gained 20 or so lbs since the weigh in.

Considering this was not a championship fight, and that Macklin was booked to box Moore for the British title at the start of May, I think the pull out was reasonable and probably the right move on their part. Why take undue risks ahead of a big fight?

FW is not so perfect that he doesnt make similar mistakes. Remember the Calzaghe-Magee fiasco when Viets people enforced the WBO rules late in the day.

Remind me BC, just how much did FW reinburse Magee with to make up for this farcical late pull out?

I agree though that Graham shud stick to training and leave negotiating to the managers.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Mar 2006, 12:06

Another thing BC.

Whilst Macklin was under Warren/Maloney’s joint manager ship, how many times did he box in his home town, in order that he could generate a local following?

Warren fukced up Macklin’s apprenticeship in my eyes. He dangled silly money in front of him, forcing him to turn over too young and he had in fighting in everywhere but Brum for the first 2 yrs of his career.

Also, do you not agree that Macklin has come on in leaps and bounds since hooking up with Graham, in terms of boxing ability?

Even if you don’t, your paymaster FW certainly does, and admitted as much in his NOTW column.

The trip to NY was one worth making in my eyes. How many Irish/Irish heritage fighters get to box at MSG on the eve of St Patricks Day? It was the kind of offer any student of boxing would jump at.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 21 Mar 2006, 12:35

Fine posts boxingchat. Interesting that Graham would be out of a job if not for Warren. It's clear he is a prize A prick.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Mar 2006, 12:55

lirva33 wrote:Fine posts boxingchat. Interesting that Graham would be out of a job if not for Warren. It's clear he is a prize A pr1ck.

Lirva, your reputation on this site is shot to pieces..

Why do you bother to continue to post?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 21 Mar 2006, 13:45

Is there really any need for such a title to this thread?

maxx · Post by **maxx** » 21 Mar 2006, 14:46

I Love the guy he's a Character and the sport need's character's imo,
I also think he's a great trainer and him and Hatton seem pretty tight,
so if he is or is not a prick who really cares.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 22 Mar 2006, 03:44

What qualifies Lirva or BoxingChat to comment on the ability of a boxing trainer.

Have they ever fought or trained anyone themselves?

bigzab · Post by **bigzab** » 22 Mar 2006, 03:51

Graham Brett wrote:What qualifies Lirva or BoxingChat to comment on the ability of a boxing trainer.

Have they ever fought or trained anyone themselves?

What would you suggest? Maybe we only comment on matters of which we have first hand experience?
In that case, would the last person to leave boxrec please turn off the lights.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 22 Mar 2006, 03:57

bigzab wrote:
Graham Brett wrote:What qualifies Lirva or BoxingChat to comment on the ability of a boxing trainer.

Have they ever fought or trained anyone themselves?
What would you suggest? Maybe we only comment on matters of which we have first hand experience?
In that case, would the last person to leave boxrec please turn off the lights.

I'm not saying they shouldnt comment but, as with everything in life their is no substitute for experience.

I add more weight to comments of people who have experience of what they are talking about

ALI · Post by **ALI** » 22 Mar 2006, 04:40

Personally, he comes across as a nice enough guy. Him and Hatton also seem inseperable so i'm not buying any of the above.

P.S love the topic title

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 22 Mar 2006, 06:21

I have not questioned his ability as a trainer, although he hasn't exactly excelled with anyone other than Hatton (A natural before Graham ever got involved by the way).

However, it is Graham that is empire-building and has driven a wedge between Managers/Promoters and their fighters from his latest gym (He got slung out the others for not paying the rent) and my point was that he and Macklin (A former trainee lawyer) embarrassed themselves big-time in the US due to them both getting involved with stuff that is relatively simple and written in plain English yet they couldn't understand. If nothing else surely they would check the weight and purse.

In short, Billy Graham is a trainer, not a manager or a promoter, whether he is a good trainer is open to debate but in this instance he made a right fick up of something and that needs to be highlighted bearing in mind this is the man who seems to have a big say in Hatton's new team along with his carpet-selling father and has made so many ridiculous statements of late.

As Don King once said, "It's no good guiding a $100M jet if you with a 10 cent control tower"

IMO opinion, if Graham was a such a great Trainer why would he let Hatton blow up so much in between fights and even take all his fighters on alcohol fuelled benders?

It's a fact that Ray Hatton wanted Graham out but Warren kept him in - so like his protege loyalty don't mean shit.

If people look at things objectively who else has Graham got? Macklin (A pissed up drinking and sparring partner for Hatton) Matthew Hatton (nuff said) and......sorry can' t think of any more?

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 22 Mar 2006, 06:26

Sorry BC, I haven't read that post yet because I'm still reading Terry's full and informative rubbishing of your initial opinions.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 22 Mar 2006, 06:40

Coconut wrote:Sorry BC, I haven't read that post yet because I'm still reading Terry's full and informative rubbishing of your initial opinions.

Well you are missing out on a great post by B-chat. indeed what has graham done other than Hatton? Farnell? Matthew Hatton? What?

he should stick to "trying" to train fighters. He would be out of a job if it wasn't for warren. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of warren by any means but this graham guy seems to be a prize a tool. He should be writing a letter of thanks to Warren for keeping his ass employed.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 22 Mar 2006, 06:52

ahh it looks as if boxingchat has a friend for life here...

Post by **John** » 22 Mar 2006, 07:16

Speaking as I find, I've known Billy for many years and he has always been a sound bloke with me. As to his training abilty, well Hatton doesn't seem to be doing too badly now, does he ?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Mar 2006, 07:16

boxingchat wrote:I have not questioned his ability as a trainer, although he hasn't exactly excelled with anyone other than Hatton (A natural before Graham ever got involved by the way).

However, it is Graham that is empire-building and has driven a wedge between Managers/Promoters and their fighters from his latest gym (He got slung out the others for not paying the rent) and my point was that he and Macklin (A former trainee lawyer) embarrassed themselves big-time in the US due to them both getting involved with stuff that is relatively simple and written in plain English yet they couldn't understand. If nothing else surely they would check the weight and purse.

In short, Billy Graham is a trainer, not a manager or a promoter, whether he is a good trainer is open to debate but in this instance he made a right fick up of something and that needs to be highlighted bearing in mind this is the man who seems to have a big say in Hatton's new team along with his carpet-selling father and has made so many ridiculous statements of late.

As Don King once said, "It's no good guiding a $100M jet if you with a 10 cent control tower"

IMO opinion, if Graham was a such a great Trainer why would he let Hatton blow up so much in between fights and even take all his fighters on alcohol fuelled benders?

It's a fact that Ray Hatton wanted Graham out but Warren kept him in - so like his protege loyalty don't mean shit.

If people look at things objectively who else has Graham got? Macklin (A pissed up drinking and sparring partner for Hatton) Matthew Hatton (nuff said) and......sorry can' t think of any more?

Well, I'm of the opinion anyway that trainers shouldn't manage people. Look at Manny Steward, he INSISTS on managing fighters he trains, despite the fact he hasn't a clue what he is doing. Same goes for Ignacio Beristain, great trainer, fornicating awful manager who has ruined JM Marquez' career by turning down the rematch with Pacman (a winnable fight for Marquez 2nd time around), and sending him off to the bloody jungles of Borneo to fight in his opponent's back yard for $30,000!

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Mar 2006, 07:25

A few points BC.

Firstly, thanks for completely ignoring my initail posts. If you can't answer hard questions, best to just ignore them eh?

Hatton might have been a natural but he has been with Graham since he wa 18, before turning pro. So I would say Graham has had a big influence on his fighting style and training programme over the last 10yrs.

You refer to Macklin as a former trainee lawyer. This is utter rubbish. He attended Cov Uni on a law degree for a few months before Big Frank came in with silly money to turn Macklin pro. Trainee lawyers have at least completed a law degree, along with undertaking professional training with a firm. Macklin is a clever lad but Warren quickly brought his formal education to a close.

On a related point, Macklin is now managed by Brian Peters and it is he who will be making managerial decisions, not Billy. I
s Big Frank still pi55ed because GRaham put the phone down on him? How dare anyone insult 'He Who Must Be Obeyed' so?... I bet you cried yourself to sleep that night (whilst cuddling up to Lirva, of course).

Oh and if Macklin is just a pi55ed up sparring partner, why did he win an ABA in his first (and last senior amateur season) win the Irish pro title and become mandatory for the British?

Matt is such a washed up pug that your boss made public overtures to him in his much maligned NOTW column. Why would such an exalted figure in the boxing world do that if the kid had nothing to offer?

Now go and blow Frank and leave the rest of us to the serious, informed boxing debate.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 22 Mar 2006, 07:36

Where did I say Macklin was a washed up Pug?

Billy Graham put the phone down did he, did he tell you that?

Did Warren approach Macklin or dud Macklin approach Warren? Did Warren end his education or did Macklin make that decision? Did Warren waive a carrot in front of Macklin or did Macklin employ a Lawyer to ask for a big Carrott which he duly got?

Did Warren get beat by Andrew Facey or did Macklin?

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Mar 2006, 07:40

boxingchat wrote:Where did I say Macklin was a washed up Pug?

Billy Graham put the phone down did he, did he tell you that?

Did Warren approach Macklin or dud Macklin approach Warren? Did Warren end his education or did Macklin make that decision? Did Warren waive a carrot in front of Macklin or did Macklin employ a Lawyer to ask for a big Carrott which he duly got?

Did Warren get beat by Andrew Facey or did Macklin?

No answers from you BC, as usual.

Poor effort.

Haven't you got some boots that need cleaning?

Run along then

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 22 Mar 2006, 09:00

TerribleTerry wrote:
boxingchat wrote:Where did I say Macklin was a washed up Pug?

Billy Graham put the phone down did he, did he tell you that?

Did Warren approach Macklin or dud Macklin approach Warren? Did Warren end his education or did Macklin make that decision? Did Warren waive a carrot in front of Macklin or did Macklin employ a Lawyer to ask for a big Carrott which he duly got?

Did Warren get beat by Andrew Facey or did Macklin?
No answers from you BC, as usual.

Poor effort.

Haven't you got some boots that need cleaning?

Run along then

In fairness, you didn't answer his questions either.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 22 Mar 2006, 09:07

Good banter this, always interesting to hear the behind the scenes gossip