When Is A Boxer "Manufactured"?

[Taansend]

A bloke whose views I respect said on the Joshua Bruno thread that both Frank Bruno & Anthony Joshua were "manufactured fighters".

So what is a manufactured fighter?

In this case I think the poster is referring to the fact that both Bruno & Joshua are muscled big black blokes (not saying he's racist in any way) with great power but average boxing skills. But that's just an assumption on my part.

But Joshua followed his boxer cousin to the gym aged around 18. He learnt to box at his own free will. I'm not sure how the manufactured part comes into it.

Breazeale & Wilder could both be described as "manufactured" as both were decent (top?) athletes in American Football before being moved to boxing because they were big, athletic sorts.

Another poster said that Tyson Fury & Billy Joe Saunders were boxers & Bruno & Joshua were manufactured because the former had more talent.

But you could argue that Fury & Saunders are manufactured as they've been bred to box from day one.

Anyway, I'd love to hear who you think is "manufactured".

Cheers

[lillywhite14]

It's a fighter who started late and pursued the sport as an almost alternative career based on their perceived athletic advantages.

Breazeale is manufactured to a degree as is Jennings. Sonny Bill Williams was manufactured too. Bruno and Joshua don't fall in to this category. Bruno started boxing as a youngster and was an ABA champ. Joshua walked in to a gym to get in shape and found he was really good at it.

[KiwiRider]

Interesting question.
I can't answer it, but many resumes are manufactured to some extent.
Guys suddenly burst on the scene with 30-0 you've never seen or heard of. Sure they have had 30 fights, but often against debut opponents or guys with major losing records.
Who had seen or heard of Wilder when he was 25-0?

[Mimmy]

Maybe this. You get a decent fighter like AJ who is good in the amateurs and hes taken away by a good team and 'developed' into what they think is the perfect boxer. mold him and sort of sculpture him into whats maybe kind of robotic and macxhine like. Possibly like Ivan Drago type thingy.

Thats how I kind of see it.

[leejonesjnr]

There is no such thing. It's a phrase taken from pop stars to mean someone with a big promo machine behind them, but there is no hair and makeup or auto tune equivalent in boxing.

[semtexreilly]

When you see guys who stuggled to get a break over the years and made their way to eventually earn a title shot re haglar larry holmes etc,who according to them never got the breaks,recognition had to do it all the hard way etc,then you see guys who were also exellent boxers but had an easier ride,through the media,hype etc like srl or oscar delahoya or like joshua nowadays,thats my take on it anyway

[Controversial]

I always took it to mean when a boxer isn't a 'natural' fighter. They are taught the basics and then rely on fighting second rate opposition and building up an unbeaten record against nobodies.

[Ossyrules]

I think the term manufactured is misleading if you look into it in the detail we're going to in a thread like this. Realistically almost all top boxers are made through hours in the gym with their coach.

On here I've heard the term Tyson (the real one) was a programmed fighter, which is a fair description having read numerous publications on Tyson. However I'd also state cus d'amato tapped into resources of having natural fighting gifts.

Bruno was a good boxer in his day, but I guess rather than manufactured it's more that he lacks variety which in turn some would question as a lack of fighting talent.

Manufactured to me in boxing is someone who is fairly limited in their skill set, providing the illusion they are not a natural boxer.

A naturally skilled boxer is someone like frankie Gavin (don't laugh). I know he's not world level (down to a number of reasons, application, weight etc), but if you watch some Gavin fights you can see some of the tricks and skills he has are things that you simply can't teach a lot of boxers. That's not manufactured

[Stuarty]

I don't like the term manufactured. Makes fighters sound like some sort of human project being made to fight against their will. They're all fighters because they choose to be for one reason or another.

I quite like AJ but I'm not a fanboy. You've got to respect what he's achieved in such a short time. It's pretty remarkable.

[boxingknockout]

Are unbeatens Joe Fournier and Andrew Flintoff manufactured fighters?

[Boxerbeetle]

I always took it to mean when a boxer isn't a 'natural' fighter. They are taught the basics and then rely on fighting second rate opposition and building up an unbeaten record against nobodies.

Same here, particularly when they have transitioned from another sport. Names that jump immediately to mind are Michael Grant and Seth Mitchell.

[Counter-puncher]

I think the term manufactured is misleading if you look into it in the detail we're going to in a thread like this. Realistically almost all top boxers are made through hours in the gym with their coach.

On here I've heard the term Tyson (the real one) was a programmed fighter, which is a fair description having read numerous publications on Tyson. However I'd also state cus d'amato tapped into resources of having natural fighting gifts.

Bruno was a good boxer in his day, but I guess rather than manufactured it's more that he lacks variety which in turn some would question as a lack of fighting talent.

Manufactured to me in boxing is someone who is fairly limited in their skill set, providing the illusion they are not a natural boxer.

A naturally skilled boxer is someone like frankie Gavin (don't laugh). I know he's not world level (down to a number of reasons, application, weight etc), but if you watch some Gavin fights you can see some of the tricks and skills he has are things that you simply can't teach a lot of boxers. That's not manufactured

I'd say that's about right

One way I would look at it is how relaxed the fighter can/can't be in the ring.

Take say a Witherspoon we're talking about on another thread, or McCallum or Hopkins, older Floyd was very relaxed (younger floyd less so), they don't waste energy not only because they don't make unnecessary movement but also because they aren't tense and stiff so use energy more efficiently

As opposed to a Bruno, Joshua, actually Trinidad often looked quite stiff to me (not the best example though) and certainly in comparison to Hopkins he was stiff

Wlad at his worst was stiff as fvck

[Stuarty]

Are unbeatens Joe Fournier and Andrew Flintoff manufactured fighters?

The fact they even got licensed is fuckin embarrassing. The night Flintoff fought that fat yank cabbage was shambolic. The prick was obviously paid to go easy. He almost shat himself when he instinctively put big Fred down

[boxingknockout]

Are unbeatens Joe Fournier and Andrew Flintoff manufactured fighters?

The fact they even got licensed is fuckin embarrassing. The night Flintoff fought that fat yank cabbage was shambolic. The prick was obviously paid to go easy. He almost shat himself when he instinctively put big Fred down

Yeah I remember that! He almost knocked him out by mistake and you could almost see him thinking "oh sh1t! How did that happen".

[olij999]

Manufactured isn't a term I'd particularly use. But I'm not a fan of fighters who build their records to, say, 8-0 and beyond without facing a fighter with a winning or even record. Pretty rare these days to see a UK fighter with, say, a 4-0 record against another UK fighter with a similar record.

[lillywhite14]

Manufactured is a poor term to describe it I guess. It gives off negative connotations.

For me, its someone who is athletically gifted and then decides to try and use that athleticism to box. Boxing is so much more than that though.

[Ricky_]

It's a fighter who started late and pursued the sport as an almost alternative career based on their perceived athletic advantages.

I agree. Joshua doesn't seem like a fluid, natural fighter.

I think Rob needs great credit for taking him to the level he's currently at in terms of his pugilistic skill.

He's a phenominal athlete though. Anyone who wants to beat him better have a chin of granite because he hits like a truck. Or perhaps Fury could use his 7 foot reach to clown him for 12.

[lillywhite14]

It's a fighter who started late and pursued the sport as an almost alternative career based on their perceived athletic advantages.

I agree. Joshua doesn't seem like a fluid, natural fighter.

I think Rob needs great credit for taking him to the level he's currently at in terms of his pugilistic skill.

He's a phenominal athlete though. Anyone who wants to beat him better have a chin of granite because he hits like a truck. Or perhaps Fury could use his 7 foot reach to clown him for 12.

He isn't a 'traditional' fluid boxer ( although there isn't too many of them at heavyweight these days ), but he is a natural fighter, no doubt.

[Counter-puncher]

Had he chosen decathlon instead of boxing I reckon he would be world class

[lillywhite14]

Had he chosen decathlon instead of boxing I reckon he would be world class

How painful would his 1500m and Pole Vault be though!!!

[Counter-puncher]

Had he chosen decathlon instead of boxing I reckon he would be world class

How painful would his 1500m and Pole Vault be though!!!

He'd be a couple of stone lighter, his 'strength and conditioning regime' would not have been geared to having so much muscle

Anyway they're all big units none of them do 1500 comfortably

His Superstars performance on the bike before his post-Olympic 'strength and conditioning regime' was an impressive display of cardio