Do you think 'old skool' boxers were fitter? *POLL*

[Boxerbeetle]

I suppose if we're simply talking fitness in terms of how fast they can run/how many weights they can lift, then modern fighters probably are fitter in that regard.

But I'd be astonished if anyone really believes that modern day fighters are fitter when it comes to the actual fight itself. The amount of times that 'top' fighters gas these days is fvcking ridiculous.

[Tomasino]

100%, modern training is not better and older people were just tougher in general due to life being tougher. One of these bad ass boxers would lose their poo if they lost their cell phone for a day.

I just think of the likes of Gans, Greb and Moore travelling by train all night to make fights. Now we have Yusaf Mack, Victor Ortiz, Kermit Cintron etc fighting for world titles.

Easy to play that game though. Tony Galento fought for the world title training on burgers and booze. Yeah, it's fine to find amusement and in fairness some admiration for a tubby little fat guy who could fight three times in one night, boozing throughout, and still drop the heavyweight champion, but it was a different era. Nobody is going to convince me that just because he had less in the bank than someone like Wlad or Joshua that he wouldn't have been obliterated by them.

Galento was a unique case though. He was renowned as the best street fighter in New Jersey and Marciano is quoted as saying he was the toughest street fighter he ever knew. Boxing was a rougher game in those days and Galento broke as many rules as he could. He had a huge punch and was incredibly strong, he was a manual labourer so was work hardened, not a sloppy tub of lard like some of today's contenders. He was violent, brutal and fearless. I reckon Galento would give most guys today hell. In a way he reminds me of the modern strong men, who are big and fat looking but still very strong and fit.

[Counter-puncher]

I suppose if we're simply talking fitness in terms of how fast they can run/how many weights they can lift, then modern fighters probably are fitter in that regard.

But I'd be astonished if anyone really believes that modern day fighters are fitter when it comes to the actual fight itself. The amount of times that 'top' fighters gas these days is fvcking ridiculous.

and that's over 12 rounds

Someone mentioned that the fifteen round guys just paced themselves accordingly, but I'm not sure that was always (or even often) the case. I've seen plenty of fifteen rounders fought at brutal pace

[rhino222]

But sports do get better though. Human advancement means the top level sportsmen move quicker, have greater endurance, are stronger and hit harder.

No tennis fan pretends Fred Perry could beat Roger Federer and no golf fan thinks Sam Snead at his best is better than a peak Tiger Woods. Serena Williams demolishes Billie Jean King, Usain Bolt beats Jesse Owens, Ronnie O'Sullivan is better then Joe Davis and so on. Seriously - why is boxing any different? Is it the only sport to have regressed?

How good would Federer be if he only played two tournaments a year?

not very because a lot of tennis is about momentum

[Tuan_Jim]

I just think of the likes of Gans, Greb and Moore travelling by train all night to make fights. Now we have Yusaf Mack, Victor Ortiz, Kermit Cintron etc fighting for world titles.

Easy to play that game though. Tony Galento fought for the world title training on burgers and booze. Yeah, it's fine to find amusement and in fairness some admiration for a tubby little fat guy who could fight three times in one night, boozing throughout, and still drop the heavyweight champion, but it was a different era. Nobody is going to convince me that just because he had less in the bank than someone like Wlad or Joshua that he wouldn't have been obliterated by them.

Galento was a unique case though. He was renowned as the best street fighter in New Jersey and Marciano is quoted as saying he was the toughest street fighter he ever knew. Boxing was a rougher game in those days and Galento broke as many rules as he could. He had a huge punch and was incredibly strong, he was a manual labourer so was work hardened, not a sloppy tub of lard like some of today's contenders. He was violent, brutal and fearless. I reckon Galento would give most guys today hell. In a way he reminds me of the modern strong men, who are big and fat looking but still very strong and fit.

The referee * who did brutish power fights such as Holyfield/Mercer and Morrison/Ruddock, and some David Tua fights, and was a decorated amateur boxer and evidently knew a bit about what big heavyweight punching looks and feels like up close, watched an old Tony Galento in the 1970s hitting the heavy bag with his left hook. He said it was the hardest display of punching he had ever witnessed and felt like Galento could crush a man's skull with his hook.

It does amuse me though, this 'Dirk' fellow making his point by using the exception to the rule. What an intelligent debate tactic! Ricardo Mayorga guzzled beer and chain smoked cigars, hated training, and annihilated Vernon Forrest right after he whopped p4p prime Shane Mosley twice. I guess we can downgrade an entire generation of fighters because one wild man defied logic and planted a top guy a good one. Take that Floyd Mayweather!

* his name is easy to find out with the fights I have given. For some reason Boxrec changes his name ala Fwankie W.

[Oiky]

'Two ton' Tony galento

What a fighter

[Counter-puncher]

But sports do get better though. Human advancement means the top level sportsmen move quicker, have greater endurance, are stronger and hit harder.

No tennis fan pretends Fred Perry could beat Roger Federer and no golf fan thinks Sam Snead at his best is better than a peak Tiger Woods. Serena Williams demolishes Billie Jean King, Usain Bolt beats Jesse Owens, Ronnie O'Sullivan is better then Joe Davis and so on. Seriously - why is boxing any different? Is it the only sport to have regressed?

How good would Federer be if he only played two tournaments a year?

not very because a lot of tennis is about momentum

Whereas boxers thrive from 10 months inactivity?

[dirk2686]

That Galento story.

Somewhere some other old bore is telling anyone who'd listen that Bobby Charlton hit the ball harder than Ronaldo and that Arnold Palmer could knock a ball further than Tiger Woods.

[boxingknockout]

Tougher? Possibly old school.... but fitter, harder hitting, more skilful.... no way on earth. Modern science, nutrition and training methods eclipse the old ways. Modern fighters have a far better shot variety too.

Every sport has improved by a significant factor on performance over the years.... why would boxing be different?

[Counter-puncher]

more skilful
Modern fighters have a far better shot variety too.
?

Compared which which era? Now vs the sixties and seventies?

[Counter-puncher]

To throw one example for discussion when was the last heavyweight who was a great bodypuncher?
I don't think Holyfield or Bowe quite qualify, for example. There have been none since them, that I can think of

*puts on confused dirk-like tone*

But I just don't understand, how is it that all human endeavours have prospered and developed and yet the last heavyweight who knew how to perform the relatively simple skill of punching to the body is now a fifty year old man (Witherspoon? Not sure I'd even count Tyson.)

[boxingknockout]

more skilful
Modern fighters have a far better shot variety too.
?

Compared which which era? Now vs the sixties and seventies?

Certainly pre 50s.... but even sixties and seventies. Some of the bums that fought for the heavy title wouldn't last a round with Tyson / Lewis / Klitschko / Bowe even Tommy Morrison

[Counter-puncher]

more skilful
Modern fighters have a far better shot variety too.
?

Compared which which era? Now vs the sixties and seventies?

Certainly pre 50s.... but even sixties and seventies. Some of the bums that fought for the heavy title wouldn't last a round with Tyson / Lewis / Klitschko / Bowe even Tommy Morrison

True,but neither would Sultan Ibragimov or Herbie Hide last a round with peak George Foreman, so what? Can you imagine portly pre-Steroid povetkin ambling towards Foreman with his hands round his head throwing touch-me punches? He'd be swatted like an insect. You can take a bad challenger from any era and another eras champs would smash him.

Alternatively Danny Garcia wouldn't last 4 rounds with Jose Napoles, but again so what? At least you'd be comparing something like the best vs the best, but again I'd say so what?

[Counter-puncher]

Wlad and Lennox have more combined title defences than they threw body shots in their entire careers. Able to stay at the top so long with one of the two target areas of the sport almost entirely unused. Nobody ever in a sense of doubt as to where the target was, an entire realm of deception and misdirection, a tactical universe far, far away from them. Makes me wonder, about this remorseless march of boxing progress I'm being told about

I like how Joshua drives that piledriver right hand to the body, though, that's encouraging

[Counter-puncher]

I appreciate I'm getting dangerously close to Jim in tone here, apologies

[Counter-puncher]

How about Heavyweights who can actually fight on the inside?

Again i think you're going back a little while.

Might it be, gasp, that the brilliant specimens and juiced-up paragons bringing our sport into the 21st century can only really fight at one range? An entire lost art, simply no longer practised? Actually not practised as often below heavyweight, just never practised at all in the sport' blue riband division. Why *fight* on the inside, it's hard work and you get punched in the face. Much easier to embrace the man like a lover

[boxingknockout]

Compared which which era? Now vs the sixties and seventies?

Certainly pre 50s.... but even sixties and seventies. Some of the bums that fought for the heavy title wouldn't last a round with Tyson / Lewis / Klitschko / Bowe even Tommy Morrison

True,but neither would Sultan Ibragimov or Herbie Hide last a round with peak George Foreman, so what? Can you imagine portly pre-Steroid povetkin ambling towards Foreman with his hands round his head throwing touch-me punches? He'd be swatted like an insect. You can take a bad challenger from any era and another eras champs would smash him.

Alternatively Danny Garcia wouldn't last 4 rounds with Jose Napoles, but again so what? At least you'd be comparing something like the best vs the best, but again I'd say so what?

I totally disagree - they would last a lot longer and maybe even spring the upset on points. Foreman was only 220 pounds, very crude and by today's standards a small heavy.

[Counter-puncher]

But sports do get better though. Human advancement means the top level sportsmen move quicker, have greater endurance, are stronger and hit harder.

No tennis fan pretends Fred Perry could beat Roger Federer and no golf fan thinks Sam Snead at his best is better than a peak Tiger Woods. Serena Williams demolishes Billie Jean King, Usain Bolt beats Jesse Owens, Ronnie O'Sullivan is better then Joe Davis and so on. Seriously - why is boxing any different? Is it the only sport to have regressed?

How good would Federer be if he only played two tournaments a year?

Anyone else?

[Lenny]

Certainly pre 50s.... but even sixties and seventies. Some of the bums that fought for the heavy title wouldn't last a round with Tyson / Lewis / Klitschko / Bowe even Tommy Morrison

True,but neither would Sultan Ibragimov or Herbie Hide last a round with peak George Foreman, so what? Can you imagine portly pre-Steroid povetkin ambling towards Foreman with his hands round his head throwing touch-me punches? He'd be swatted like an insect. You can take a bad challenger from any era and another eras champs would smash him.

Alternatively Danny Garcia wouldn't last 4 rounds with Jose Napoles, but again so what? At least you'd be comparing something like the best vs the best, but again I'd say so what?

I totally disagree - they would last a lot longer and maybe even spring the upset on points. Foreman was only 220 pounds, very crude and by today's standards a small heavy.

220 pounds? Danny Williams would have smashed him up

[Counter-puncher]

#modernnutrition

[Boxerbeetle]

Certainly pre 50s.... but even sixties and seventies. Some of the bums that fought for the heavy title wouldn't last a round with Tyson / Lewis / Klitschko / Bowe even Tommy Morrison

True,but neither would Sultan Ibragimov or Herbie Hide last a round with peak George Foreman, so what? Can you imagine portly pre-Steroid povetkin ambling towards Foreman with his hands round his head throwing touch-me punches? He'd be swatted like an insect. You can take a bad challenger from any era and another eras champs would smash him.

Alternatively Danny Garcia wouldn't last 4 rounds with Jose Napoles, but again so what? At least you'd be comparing something like the best vs the best, but again I'd say so what?

I totally disagree - they would last a lot longer and maybe even spring the upset on points. Foreman was only 220 pounds, very crude and by today's standards a small heavy.

Ibragimov or Herbie Hide might beat prime Foreman on points?

[Tuan_Jim]

Certainly pre 50s.... but even sixties and seventies. Some of the bums that fought for the heavy title wouldn't last a round with Tyson / Lewis / Klitschko / Bowe even Tommy Morrison

True,but neither would Sultan Ibragimov or Herbie Hide last a round with peak George Foreman, so what? Can you imagine portly pre-Steroid povetkin ambling towards Foreman with his hands round his head throwing touch-me punches? He'd be swatted like an insect. You can take a bad challenger from any era and another eras champs would smash him.

Alternatively Danny Garcia wouldn't last 4 rounds with Jose Napoles, but again so what? At least you'd be comparing something like the best vs the best, but again I'd say so what?

I totally disagree - they would last a lot longer and maybe even spring the upset on points. Foreman was only 220 pounds, very crude and by today's standards a small heavy.

Foreman was a behemoth boiled down to 220. Wladimir is a 220 man bulked up through weights - or whatever else - to 245.

I think fans who are only interested in current boxing look at heavies of the past and forget that they are men who have worked off excess weight rather than tried to put it on. Hence why they could romp 15 at a pace while our 'modern scientific' training methods have heavies battling exhaustion after 4 or 5 rds.

Yee, Foreman was indeed crude - but intelligent and doing the right thing, just without the grace of an Ezzard or Jersey Joe. Kovalev and Vitali are crude in their ways too - but also doing the right things to win. Vitali fights like Ruby Rob and Gentleman Jim in the grainy turn of century film.

[boxingknockout]

True,but neither would Sultan Ibragimov or Herbie Hide last a round with peak George Foreman, so what? Can you imagine portly pre-Steroid povetkin ambling towards Foreman with his hands round his head throwing touch-me punches? He'd be swatted like an insect. You can take a bad challenger from any era and another eras champs would smash him.

Alternatively Danny Garcia wouldn't last 4 rounds with Jose Napoles, but again so what? At least you'd be comparing something like the best vs the best, but again I'd say so what?

I totally disagree - they would last a lot longer and maybe even spring the upset on points. Foreman was only 220 pounds, very crude and by today's standards a small heavy.

Ibragimov or Herbie Hide might beat prime Foreman on points?

.

I know it sounds ridiculous.... but have you seen how crude he was? Watch some vids.... Christ Tommy Morrison of all people outboxed the modern version. He walked through a short, fat Frazier who was 214 lbs and he was 217 1/2 lbs and was considered a monster. Apart from Frazier - who did Foreman really beat? A 196 lb Joe Roman? A chinny Ken Norton? Come on.... the old fighters were very overrated at heavyweight - Ali defended against Alfredo Evangelista (pts 15) the awful Chuck Werner (w Ko 15), jean Pierre coopman, Rudi Lubbers went 12 rounds with Ali No e if these bums would last a minute with Tyson having his 3rd fight....

I bet you think Valeriy Borzov would beat Usain Bolt because he was more 'gritty'

[Boxerbeetle]

I totally disagree - they would last a lot longer and maybe even spring the upset on points. Foreman was only 220 pounds, very crude and by today's standards a small heavy.

Ibragimov or Herbie Hide might beat prime Foreman on points?

.

I know it sounds ridiculous.... but have you seen how crude he was? Watch some vids.... Christ Tommy Morrison of all people outboxed the modern version. He walked through a short, fat Frazier who was 214 lbs and he was 217 1/2 lbs and was considered a monster. Apart from Frazier - who did Foreman really beat? A 196 lb Joe Roman? A chinny Ken Norton? Come on.... the old fighters were very overrated at heavyweight - Ali defended against Alfredo Evangelista (pts 15) the awful Chuck Werner (w Ko 15), jean Pierre coopman, Rudi Lubbers went 12 rounds with Ali No e if these bums would last a minute with Tyson having his 3rd fight....

I bet you think Valeriy Borzov would beat Usain Bolt because he was more 'gritty'

No, no, no. Hide does not beat Foreman. This is crazy talk

[boxingknockout]

Ibragimov or Herbie Hide might beat prime Foreman on points?

.

I know it sounds ridiculous.... but have you seen how crude he was? Watch some vids.... Christ Tommy Morrison of all people outboxed the modern version. He walked through a short, fat Frazier who was 214 lbs and he was 217 1/2 lbs and was considered a monster. Apart from Frazier - who did Foreman really beat? A 196 lb Joe Roman? A chinny Ken Norton? Come on.... the old fighters were very overrated at heavyweight - Ali defended against Alfredo Evangelista (pts 15) the awful Chuck Werner (w Ko 15), jean Pierre coopman, Rudi Lubbers went 12 rounds with Ali No e if these bums would last a minute with Tyson having his 3rd fight....

I bet you think Valeriy Borzov would beat Usain Bolt because he was more 'gritty'

No, no, no. Hide does not beat Foreman. This is crazy talk

Yeah maybe. Hide is too fragile. But he could hit harder and box better than the majority of top 10 fighters in 60s and 70s