Kalan wrote:You've got no argument. You've got nothing but air between your ears... You're a troll who only wants to insult and make up your own facts.punchoutsb wrote:He didn't weight 238, he weighed 238.5Kalan wrote:
If he weighed 238 SAY he weighed 238.. Don't pad his weight and his height to push your phony argument.. Willard already weighed more than usual for a fight and the heaviest he'd ever been.. in fact, they were both fat and out-of-shape because they both knew the fight was a tank job.. A year earlier Willard weighed 225 as he was getting beaten by a green-horned Light Heavyweight.. That's probably closer to his natural weight.
And why press the action??? Why not just stroll around the parameter of the ring -- and not box at all -- if you know you're going to win anyway??? You have to do something to fake an actual fight.. But if the fight was real, and you lost the first 20 rounds, you need to pick it up.. Especially if your opponent isn't doing anything but standing there.. By all accounts there was almost complete idleness from the boxers in the 23rd, 24th, and 25th rounds -- followed by a KO in the 26th that ringsiders thought was fake as Hell -- for good reasons.
Sounds like you know ZERO about boxing because you'd know that ringsiders considered the KO a fake -- and that no master boxer gets hit with a loaded lead right from a rube like Willard... And that no still photo or slo-mo exists showing the KO punch making contact with Willard's chin or jaw.![]()
The rest of your blah blah blah is very ignorable as is the rest of your blah blah blah. I wish the library you post at hadn't fixed the computers; I quite liked when you weren't posting here.
Oh yeah, one more thing:
According to sportswriters who attended the fight, the KO wasn't real.. 8th paragraph http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf
Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
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punchoutsb
- Heavyweight

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Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
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punchoutsb
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 5842
- Joined: 16 Sep 2009, 01:05
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZVlsLs9Eo
Check that knockout shot!
Go to 9:54 and set the speed to 0.25 so your old eyes can see and then sit back and cry yourself to sleep
Check that knockout shot!
Go to 9:54 and set the speed to 0.25 so your old eyes can see and then sit back and cry yourself to sleep
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
.
From: THE SIOUX CITY JOURNAL
TUESDAY, MORNING, APRIL 6, 1915
JACK JOHNSON vs JESS WILLARD
THE TWENTY-SIXTH ROUND
_ Johnson rose slowly from his chair and Willard met him more than two-thirds of the way across the ring. Willard stabbed a terrific left into the negro's face, sending his head bobbing. before the champion could recover his position, Willard swung a smashing right which landed full on Johnson's stomach. Johnson was flung against the ropes by the force of the blow and he clinched on the rebound.
_ The cowboy tried to tear loose, but the black man held grimly with eyes closed and legs shaking. Just before the referee broke them, Johnson looked over Willard's shoulder toward the box where his wife had been, his eyes showing a dazed, tired, puzzled expression.
"As soon as Welsh had broken the clinch, Jess rushed again, forcing the negro into Willard's corner, where the finish came. Johnson was slow in guarding and his strong, youthful opponent hooked a swinging left to the body. The fading champion's legs quivered and again the towering giant feinted for the body, Johnson dropped his guard and Willard won the title with a quick hard swing to the exact point of the jaw.
_ The negro's knees folded up under him and he sank slowly to the floor and rolled over on his back, partly under the ropes.
_ Welsh waved Willard back and began to count. Up and down swung the referee's hand, but Johnson never moved. His eyes were glassy, only the whites being visible."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingnewsp ... sioux.html
From: THE SIOUX CITY JOURNAL
TUESDAY, MORNING, APRIL 6, 1915
JACK JOHNSON vs JESS WILLARD
THE TWENTY-SIXTH ROUND
_ Johnson rose slowly from his chair and Willard met him more than two-thirds of the way across the ring. Willard stabbed a terrific left into the negro's face, sending his head bobbing. before the champion could recover his position, Willard swung a smashing right which landed full on Johnson's stomach. Johnson was flung against the ropes by the force of the blow and he clinched on the rebound.
_ The cowboy tried to tear loose, but the black man held grimly with eyes closed and legs shaking. Just before the referee broke them, Johnson looked over Willard's shoulder toward the box where his wife had been, his eyes showing a dazed, tired, puzzled expression.
"As soon as Welsh had broken the clinch, Jess rushed again, forcing the negro into Willard's corner, where the finish came. Johnson was slow in guarding and his strong, youthful opponent hooked a swinging left to the body. The fading champion's legs quivered and again the towering giant feinted for the body, Johnson dropped his guard and Willard won the title with a quick hard swing to the exact point of the jaw.
_ The negro's knees folded up under him and he sank slowly to the floor and rolled over on his back, partly under the ropes.
_ Welsh waved Willard back and began to count. Up and down swung the referee's hand, but Johnson never moved. His eyes were glassy, only the whites being visible."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingnewsp ... sioux.html
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
.
Here is a different twist on the KO
From: THE SIOUX CITY JOURNAL
TUESDAY, MORNING, APRIL 6, 1915
JACK JOHNSON vs JESS WILLARD
Tells Wife He's All In.
_ When the round closed, Johnson sent word to his wife that he was all in and told her to start for home. She was on the way out and was passing the ring in the twenty-sixth round, when a stinging left to the body and a cycled right to the jaw caused Johnson to crumple on the floor of the ring, where he lay partly outside the ropes until the referee counted ten and held up Willard's hand in token of his newly won laurels.
_ There is much discussion tonight, and probably will be for a long time, among the followers of the fighting game as to whether Johnson was really knocked out. _ In the sense of being smashed into unconsciousness of opinion is that Johnson expected and knew that there was no hope of winning; so when knocked down he chose to take the count rather than rise and stand further punishment.
_ Johnson has often stated that fighting is a business and he would not foolishly submit to repeated knock downs when he found he had met his master. A second or two after Jack Welsh, the referee, had counted ten, Johnson quickly got up.
Here is a different twist on the KO
From: THE SIOUX CITY JOURNAL
TUESDAY, MORNING, APRIL 6, 1915
JACK JOHNSON vs JESS WILLARD
Tells Wife He's All In.
_ When the round closed, Johnson sent word to his wife that he was all in and told her to start for home. She was on the way out and was passing the ring in the twenty-sixth round, when a stinging left to the body and a cycled right to the jaw caused Johnson to crumple on the floor of the ring, where he lay partly outside the ropes until the referee counted ten and held up Willard's hand in token of his newly won laurels.
_ There is much discussion tonight, and probably will be for a long time, among the followers of the fighting game as to whether Johnson was really knocked out. _ In the sense of being smashed into unconsciousness of opinion is that Johnson expected and knew that there was no hope of winning; so when knocked down he chose to take the count rather than rise and stand further punishment.
_ Johnson has often stated that fighting is a business and he would not foolishly submit to repeated knock downs when he found he had met his master. A second or two after Jack Welsh, the referee, had counted ten, Johnson quickly got up.
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
.
Why France if he has a deal?
From: TAUNTON DAILY GAZETTE
TUESDAY EVENING APRIL 6, 1915
"Johnson, said to be under espionage of United States secret service agents endeavoring to return him in the white slave case, planned to leave today for Martinique, to take a steamer for France, where he and his white wife expect to make their home. Johnson was not disturbed by reports that he might be arrested, declaring that he was safe while in Cuba or on the high seas."
P.S. I love the odd use of the word 'espionage' - they never miss a chance to mention that the wife is 'white'
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingnewsp ... unton.html
Why France if he has a deal?
From: TAUNTON DAILY GAZETTE
TUESDAY EVENING APRIL 6, 1915
"Johnson, said to be under espionage of United States secret service agents endeavoring to return him in the white slave case, planned to leave today for Martinique, to take a steamer for France, where he and his white wife expect to make their home. Johnson was not disturbed by reports that he might be arrested, declaring that he was safe while in Cuba or on the high seas."
P.S. I love the odd use of the word 'espionage' - they never miss a chance to mention that the wife is 'white'
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingnewsp ... unton.html
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
NOBODY'S eyes can see that punch making contact with Willard's chin or jaw in any frame stupid... And if you knew anything about Boxing you would know that a rube like Willard---who lost to a green-horned Light Heavyweight 2 fights previously---who couldn't connect for 26 rounds, and after doing almost nothing for 5 rounds, would suddenly connect with a loaded lead right that everyone can see.. That's why Willard claimed he finished Johnson with an uppercut.. He also knew the punch didn't land. A master boxer doesn't get tagged with that type of loaded lead right from an inept swinger.punchoutsb wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZVlsLs9Eo
Check that knockout shot!
Go to 9:54 and set the speed to 0.25 so your old eyes can see and then sit back and cry yourself to sleep
Eighth paragraph... http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf ... Even partisan white sportswriters at ringside didn't believe the KO was real.
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
- Posts: 18491
- Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 16:47
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
-The Fight by Rounds
(April.05.1915)
(also scroll over to page 4 on the right to read the rest of the newspaper round-by-round coverage)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 3527&hl=en
It sounded like an action-packed fight from this ringside newspaper account.
Johnson trying to put away Willard before the tenth round from the sound of it.
(April.05.1915)
(also scroll over to page 4 on the right to read the rest of the newspaper round-by-round coverage)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 3527&hl=en
It sounded like an action-packed fight from this ringside newspaper account.
Johnson trying to put away Willard before the tenth round from the sound of it.
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
- Posts: 18491
- Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 16:47
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
-rounds one through Ten-(capsule comments)
Round one-Johnson easily outboxes Willard and goes back to his corner saying"I can hit him whenever I want to"
round two-Willard looks "befuddled" and is punished
round three-Johnson wins easily
Round 4-Wllard's lip is cut
round 5-Willard 'puzzled" and badly distressed and rattled
round 6-Johnson rubs Willard's cut lip at every oppertunityin the clinches and opens a cut on Willard's left cheek
round 7-Johnson flies out of corner apparently trying to end things.
Willard's lip and cheek bleeding and upper body blotched red from Johnson's body punches,but Johnson begins breathing hard
round 8-Willard feels like he has weathered the storm and begins to gain confidence and takes inititive
a right hand by Willard to Johnsons body noticeably slows down the champion
round 9-Willard's right ear begins to bleed from a Johnson left.but Johnson's punches begin to loose their power
and for the first time Willard begins to back up the champion
and a "cracking left" by Willard bloody's Jack Johnson's mouth.
round 10- Johnson appears slow coming out of his corner.
Willard begins to block Johnson's punches more easily
but a hard right" staggers" Willard,
but Johnson is observed by ringsiders going back to his corner with a noticable bloody mouth
Round one-Johnson easily outboxes Willard and goes back to his corner saying"I can hit him whenever I want to"
round two-Willard looks "befuddled" and is punished
round three-Johnson wins easily
Round 4-Wllard's lip is cut
round 5-Willard 'puzzled" and badly distressed and rattled
round 6-Johnson rubs Willard's cut lip at every oppertunityin the clinches and opens a cut on Willard's left cheek
round 7-Johnson flies out of corner apparently trying to end things.
Willard's lip and cheek bleeding and upper body blotched red from Johnson's body punches,but Johnson begins breathing hard
round 8-Willard feels like he has weathered the storm and begins to gain confidence and takes inititive
a right hand by Willard to Johnsons body noticeably slows down the champion
round 9-Willard's right ear begins to bleed from a Johnson left.but Johnson's punches begin to loose their power
and for the first time Willard begins to back up the champion
and a "cracking left" by Willard bloody's Jack Johnson's mouth.
round 10- Johnson appears slow coming out of his corner.
Willard begins to block Johnson's punches more easily
but a hard right" staggers" Willard,
but Johnson is observed by ringsiders going back to his corner with a noticable bloody mouth
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
There was a lot of bitter racial bias at the time... There was a lot of resentment because Johnson slayed white heroes as Jeffries and Ketchel in such brutal fashion... They wanted to believe Willard really won the fight and Johnson didn't lay down... But the newspapers reported than neither fighter was marked or showed the punishment a Heavyweight Championship Fight would produce -- even saying it was the "least brutal" of Heavyweight contests.Caractacus wrote:-The Fight by Rounds
(April.05.1915)
(also scroll over to page 4 on the right to read the rest of the newspaper round-by-round coverage)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 3527&hl=en
It sounded like an action-packed fight from this ringside newspaper account.
Johnson trying to put away Willard before the tenth round from the sound of it.
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punchoutsb
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 5842
- Joined: 16 Sep 2009, 01:05
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
You're finally correct!! Nobody can see the punch contacting Willard's chin or jaw because Willard isn't the one that got knocked out, Johnson wasKalan wrote:NOBODY'S eyes can see that punch making contact with Willard's chin or jaw in any frame stupid... And if you knew anything about Boxing you would know that a rube like Willard---who lost to a green-horned Light Heavyweight 2 fights previously---who couldn't connect for 26 rounds, and after doing almost nothing for 5 rounds, would suddenly connect with a loaded lead right that everyone can see.. That's why Willard claimed he finished Johnson with an uppercut.. He also knew the punch didn't land. A master boxer doesn't get tagged with that type of loaded lead right from an inept swinger.punchoutsb wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZVlsLs9Eo
Check that knockout shot!
Go to 9:54 and set the speed to 0.25 so your old eyes can see and then sit back and cry yourself to sleep
Eighth paragraph... http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf ... Even partisan white sportswriters at ringside didn't believe the KO was real.
As for your "know anything about boxing comment" it just goes to show how little you actually know. You're claiming a guy can't win by later knockout because he didn't win by knockout earlier. You're claiming someone coming off a loss can't win. I mean if that's the case the only proof you need that Willard knocked out Johnson (aside from the visual evidence right in front of you) is the fact that little Joe Choynski already did it
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
- Posts: 18491
- Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 16:47
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
hey,Why are we unable to read that particular newspaper article any longer ?APerno wrote:.
New York Times April 6th 1915, Page 1, "Willard Victor; Johnson Retires from Prize Ring"
Doesn't add much to our argument; will keep looking.
http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ.html
There were a few things I wanted to quote concerning the physical damage
that was noted to each fighter,particularly in the first 10 rounds.
I remember it said that Jack Johnson had a noticeable 'shiner" around his eye sometime in the 5th round I believe.
and Willard had noticable "rope-burn" marks on his back during those rounds.
I wanted to add them to "the damage" report here a few posts back for future reference.
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
Barbarian,
April 6th 1915 NYT
Front Page: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ1.png
Page 8: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf
Should be full article, hopefully!
April 6th 1915 NYT
Front Page: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ1.png
Page 8: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf
Should be full article, hopefully!
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
Those superficial bumps and cuts don't show anyone was in a Heavyweight Fight... Watch the endings of Johnson-Jeffries and Johnson-Ketchel for contrast... Because if Johnson wanted to he could have ended Willard like that at any time -- because the big lout was 10 times as easy to hit... The newspapers articles reported that neither fighter exhibited evidence of being in a Heavyweight contest and neither was tired or injured... Which is totally consistent with a fight that's as phony as Hell.. Johnson showed extreme strength and energy in their last clinch -- which he only initiated because he wanted to check out if his wife had left and wouldn't witness his dastardly dive.Caractacus wrote:hey,Why are we unable to read that particular newspaper article any longer ?APerno wrote:.
New York Times April 6th 1915, Page 1, "Willard Victor; Johnson Retires from Prize Ring"
Doesn't add much to our argument; will keep looking.
http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ.html
There were a few things I wanted to quote concerning the physical damage
that was noted to each fighter,particularly in the first 10 rounds.
I remember it said that Jack Johnson had a noticeable 'shiner" around his eye sometime in the 5th round I believe.
and Willard had noticable "rope-burn" marks on his back during those rounds.
I wanted to add them to "the damage" report here a few posts back for future reference.
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
The first link said Johnson was winning, but as his blows became less effective after the 20th round (presumably being tired) that Willard picked up the pace... That didn't happen... The fight slowed down to a snail's pace and both fighter's exhibited "almost complete idleness" in the 23rd, 24th, and 25th... The fans were cat-calling and yelling at the boxers to do something... This is totally consistent with Johnson's already having demonstrated his complete superiority for 20 rounds -- simply waiting around for his wife's signal that she had the documents which he states in his autobiography.APerno wrote:Barbarian,
April 6th 1915 NYT
Front Page: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ1.png
Page 8: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf
Should be full article, hopefully!
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
A 37-year-old Jack Johnson with lots of mileage on his body could have stopped Jess Willard at any time during their bout? At the age of 37 and after being out of the ring for three years, Willard was a virtual punching bag in his bout with the hard-hitting Jack Dempsey and still lasted three rounds.Kalan wrote:Those superficial bumps and cuts don't show anyone was in a Heavyweight Fight... Watch the endings of Johnson-Jeffries and Johnson-Ketchel for contrast... Because if Johnson wanted to he could have ended Willard like that at any time -- because the big lout was 10 times as easy to hit... The newspapers articles reported that neither fighter exhibited evidence of being in a Heavyweight contest and neither was tired or injured... Which is totally consistent with a fight that's as phony as Hell.. Johnson showed extreme strength and energy in their last clinch -- which he only initiated because he wanted to check out if his wife had left and wouldn't witness his dastardly dive.Caractacus wrote:hey,Why are we unable to read that particular newspaper article any longer ?APerno wrote:.
New York Times April 6th 1915, Page 1, "Willard Victor; Johnson Retires from Prize Ring"
Doesn't add much to our argument; will keep looking.
http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ.html
There were a few things I wanted to quote concerning the physical damage
that was noted to each fighter,particularly in the first 10 rounds.
I remember it said that Jack Johnson had a noticeable 'shiner" around his eye sometime in the 5th round I believe.
and Willard had noticable "rope-burn" marks on his back during those rounds.
I wanted to add them to "the damage" report here a few posts back for future reference.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
Think about it Chuck... Dempsey only weighed 187 -- but Dempsey and Kearns were STILL so confident Jack could hammer out this stink plug anytime they wanted to they put 10,000 dollars on a 1st round KO win.. Under today's rules, where the bell doesn't save you, Dempsey would have won the bet.Chuck1052 wrote:A 37-year-old Jack Johnson with lots of mileage on his body could have stopped Jess Willard at any time during their bout? At the age of 37 and after being out of the ring for three years, Willard was a virtual punching bag in his bout with the hard-hitting Jack Dempsey and still lasted three rounds.
- Chuck Johnston
Dempsey jumped out of the ring after his "1st round KO" and took a pounding from fans who swarmed over him... Dempsey talked about the tremendous emotional letdown when he was called back into the ring.. He realized they lost the 100,000 dollars and the 10,000 they beat on a 1st round KO.. It didn't matter after that WHAT round Dempsey won in.. They already lost the bet.. They already were out a huge chunk of money---but the fight was still their's.. The idea then was to just keep smashing the big stiff until he quit.. No need to go for the KO.. If Dempsey were a full sized 225-pound Heavyweight like Johnson -- they would have won their can't miss bet super easy.
As for the mileage on Johnson??? There wasn't much... Johnson won his next 13 fights and destroyed huge young contender Pat Lester at the age of 48... That was a 15-round fight.. That's when the bottom dropped out -- after the Lester fight at 48 -- NOT when Johnson was a young 37 and still very fresh and vigorous ready to roll off a bunch of wins in a row.. In sharp contrast Willard aged quickly.. After the Johnson fight he went 2-2 with 2 KO losses.. Jess was damned inept.
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Randy Roberts, Papa Jack: Jack Johnson And The Era Of White Hopes, Page 222
"Eventually not even craftsmanship was enough. In May 1926 Johnson Defeated Pat Lester in a match held in Nogales, Mexico. He won, but he was far from impressive."
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sports Illustrated, Finis Far, "Jack and the Game," June 22nd 1959
"Johnson also made appearances as a fighter long after the age when boxers usually are retired. He was 48 when he beat Pat Lester in the bull ring at Nogales, Mexico in 15 rounds. Lester was a strong young heavyweight who had never been defeated and was thought to be a contender for the championship then held by Jack Dempsey. The wire services reported Johnson in his best form, picking off punches as a shortstop catches a bounding ball and joking with friends from the 25th (Negro) U.S. Infantry, whose camp was just across the border and who made a killing with their bets."
https://www.si.com/vault/1959/06/22/607 ... d-the-game
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
After Johnson, Pat Lester dropped six of his next seven fights, three by points, three by KO - just how good was this guy? A contender for Dempsey is hard to buy; also he had five loses going into the Johnson fight - why Sports Illustrated would claim he 'had never been defeated' is puzzling. I looked closely at Boxrec, they don't ID the five loses as newspaper decision, including them instead in his record - although I guess they could still be. Would be interesting to see what the The Ring Record Book had his record at when the article was written back in 1959. But either way, he looks to have been done when Johnson catches up to him; odd considering he was only 25 at the time.
Randy Roberts, Papa Jack: Jack Johnson And The Era Of White Hopes, Page 222
"Eventually not even craftsmanship was enough. In May 1926 Johnson Defeated Pat Lester in a match held in Nogales, Mexico. He won, but he was far from impressive."
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sports Illustrated, Finis Far, "Jack and the Game," June 22nd 1959
"Johnson also made appearances as a fighter long after the age when boxers usually are retired. He was 48 when he beat Pat Lester in the bull ring at Nogales, Mexico in 15 rounds. Lester was a strong young heavyweight who had never been defeated and was thought to be a contender for the championship then held by Jack Dempsey. The wire services reported Johnson in his best form, picking off punches as a shortstop catches a bounding ball and joking with friends from the 25th (Negro) U.S. Infantry, whose camp was just across the border and who made a killing with their bets."
https://www.si.com/vault/1959/06/22/607 ... d-the-game
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
After Johnson, Pat Lester dropped six of his next seven fights, three by points, three by KO - just how good was this guy? A contender for Dempsey is hard to buy; also he had five loses going into the Johnson fight - why Sports Illustrated would claim he 'had never been defeated' is puzzling. I looked closely at Boxrec, they don't ID the five loses as newspaper decision, including them instead in his record - although I guess they could still be. Would be interesting to see what the The Ring Record Book had his record at when the article was written back in 1959. But either way, he looks to have been done when Johnson catches up to him; odd considering he was only 25 at the time.
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
Maybe Sports Illustrated meant to say Pat Lester had never been stopped and accidentally said he'd never been beaten... Lester had 5 losses by then but he hadn't been knocked out.. I think the Johnson fight took his chin away because Lester is described as "cut to ribbons" by Johnson and absorbing amazing punishment.. He didn't seem to be a skilled defender and the Johnson fight may have tapped out his chin.. He slid downhill like a roller-coaster after that.
I'm not sure about the "Era of White Hopes" story... Newspaper reports of the Lester fight generally gave Johnson credit for fighting a masterful fight and making Lester look like a complete and utter novice.. But no doubt age finally caught up with Johnson after that fight.. He hit the skids big time.
I'm not sure about the "Era of White Hopes" story... Newspaper reports of the Lester fight generally gave Johnson credit for fighting a masterful fight and making Lester look like a complete and utter novice.. But no doubt age finally caught up with Johnson after that fight.. He hit the skids big time.
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
- Posts: 18491
- Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 16:47
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
the Jack Johnson vrs Jess Willard Heavyweight title bout had to have been one of the most brutalist matches in the annuals of "Fistiana"
Jack Johnson was obviously intent on stopping Willard in 10 rounds or less.
There was obviously no dog in Jess Willard whose game plan was to absorb Jack Johnson's best and then clobber Johnson somewheres down the stretch of the
scheduled 45 rounds.
BTW I'm sure that I had read an old newspaper account about a year ago published shortly after the fight (April.5.1915)
That had said Jess Willard suffered a broken cheekbone and three cracked ribs in that fight (from Johnson's relentless body punching)
* not to be confused with the damage tha Jack Dempsey inflicted on Willard 4 years later of course.
Jack Johnson was obviously intent on stopping Willard in 10 rounds or less.
There was obviously no dog in Jess Willard whose game plan was to absorb Jack Johnson's best and then clobber Johnson somewheres down the stretch of the
scheduled 45 rounds.
BTW I'm sure that I had read an old newspaper account about a year ago published shortly after the fight (April.5.1915)
That had said Jess Willard suffered a broken cheekbone and three cracked ribs in that fight (from Johnson's relentless body punching)
* not to be confused with the damage tha Jack Dempsey inflicted on Willard 4 years later of course.
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
Caractacus wrote:the Jack Johnson vrs Jess Willard Heavyweight title bout had to have been one of the most brutalist matches in the annuals of "Fistiana"
Jack Johnson was obviously intent on stopping Willard in 10 rounds or less.
There was obviously no dog in Jess Willard whose game plan was to absorb Jack Johnson's best and then clobber Johnson somewheres down the stretch of the
scheduled 45 rounds.
BTW I'm sure that I had read an old newspaper account about a year ago published shortly after the fight (April.5.1915)
That had said Jess Willard suffered a broken cheekbone and three cracked ribs in that fight (from Johnson's relentless body punching)
* not to be confused with the damage tha Jack Dempsey inflicted on Willard 4 years later of course.
Broken cheekbone and cracked ribs are often associated with the Dempsey fight - but even that looks to be apocryphal. - Willard's jaw, cheek, nor ribs were broken against Dempsey - even Willard admitted in several interviews afterward that his jaw was not broken - which is a bit surprising because Willard was often an excuse maker - but not about the Dempsey lose - he took that graciously - there was one very vicious cut on his cheek though
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
Caractacus, you didn't read any newspaper accounts of Willard suffering a broken cheekbone and 3 cracked ribs against Johnson... That's another lie to match your 110 degree heat lie... From all accounts Johnson-Willard was the tamest boxing match on record, with neither boxer showing evidence of being in a Heavyweight Championship Fight... You're making stuff up out of thin air and posting lies...
The fight itself was one of the biggest lies of the century... right up there with 8 members of the Chicago White Sox tanking the 1919 World Series..
By all newspaper accounts, neither boxer was badly marked or appeared injured in any way outside of minor cuts and bruises you'd get in a playground fight... Nothing like Johnson-Jeffries or Johnson-Ketchel happened... Nothing like Dempsey-Willard happened.. Those were actual fights not frauds.. The reports of the so-called KO punch were disbelieving.. They stated that certainly NO KO punch landed..Willard knew ringsiders were very skeptical about the KO punch so he made up his own senario.."I landed an uppercut." That statement just confirms that the loaded straight right to the chin was a big phony.
The newspaper reports tell of the boxers doing almost nothing from the 21st through the 25th.. Johnson was doing all the fighting and when he stopped nothing happened but "almost compete idleness." ... Then the newspapers then reported that Johnson sent word to his wife that the fight was over and to exit the arena.. In the 26th round Johnson grabbed Willard in a brutal clinch and manhandled him, showing that he was fresh and vigorous because Willard couldn't free himself though he tried hard.. As he had Willard in his grasp, Johnson gazed to his wife's box seat to see if she indeed was leaving the arena.. She was.. Johnson immediately went back and seemed to be signaling Willard to throw the straight right.. Then Johnson faked the KO that nobody at ringside believed -- as they reported this in the newspaper.
The fight itself was one of the biggest lies of the century... right up there with 8 members of the Chicago White Sox tanking the 1919 World Series..
By all newspaper accounts, neither boxer was badly marked or appeared injured in any way outside of minor cuts and bruises you'd get in a playground fight... Nothing like Johnson-Jeffries or Johnson-Ketchel happened... Nothing like Dempsey-Willard happened.. Those were actual fights not frauds.. The reports of the so-called KO punch were disbelieving.. They stated that certainly NO KO punch landed..Willard knew ringsiders were very skeptical about the KO punch so he made up his own senario.."I landed an uppercut." That statement just confirms that the loaded straight right to the chin was a big phony.
The newspaper reports tell of the boxers doing almost nothing from the 21st through the 25th.. Johnson was doing all the fighting and when he stopped nothing happened but "almost compete idleness." ... Then the newspapers then reported that Johnson sent word to his wife that the fight was over and to exit the arena.. In the 26th round Johnson grabbed Willard in a brutal clinch and manhandled him, showing that he was fresh and vigorous because Willard couldn't free himself though he tried hard.. As he had Willard in his grasp, Johnson gazed to his wife's box seat to see if she indeed was leaving the arena.. She was.. Johnson immediately went back and seemed to be signaling Willard to throw the straight right.. Then Johnson faked the KO that nobody at ringside believed -- as they reported this in the newspaper.
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
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Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
well,I had read it somewhere for sure.
how accurate it was,I can't say but I don't think it should be ignored just because you have trouble agreeing with it.
how accurate it was,I can't say but I don't think it should be ignored just because you have trouble agreeing with it.
Last edited by Caractacus on 08 May 2017, 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
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Re: Jess Willard/Centennial anniversary of becoming the Champ
BTW You have to admit it seems kind of strange that 8 of the first 10 roounds of the known exisiting film footage doeesnt appear to be available.Caractacus wrote:I came across this on youtube.
An abridged and very grainy print of the fight film,
( like the kind they would show in the basement of the VWF or something)
Showing just portions of
rounds one,
twelve,
fourteen,
fifteen,
seventeen,
eighteen,
nineteen,
twenty,twenty-one,twenty-five and twenty-six.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74dnCeXI8MM
( for some reason round 10 looks to be missing from this version but is available on the other shorter version )
Because if it did, you no doubt would be seeing Jack Johnson trying go "Flat-Out" in trying to Knockout Jess Willard
and understand why he really slowed down and made himself vulnerable after the 20th round.
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
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Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
round 10 begins at about 4:30 of this clip.
(also did you notice at the beginning of round one here,that Willard got the first punch in,a telephone pole jab to Johnson's nose)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZVlsLs9Eo
(also did you notice at the beginning of round one here,that Willard got the first punch in,a telephone pole jab to Johnson's nose)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZVlsLs9Eo
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Caractacus
- Super Welterweight
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- Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 16:47
Re: Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary
BTW The newspaper account's report Willard's cheekbone was bleeding in round 7 here.
and why couldn't Jack Johnson have cracked several of Willard's ribs ?
you said youreslf he was a tremenous puncher.
Did you see Johnson go to Willard's body relentlesly for 25 rounds ?
Willard's upper body was noted to be blotched red beginning in round 7.
(and why would you figure round 7 be missing footage ?
sounds like one of the more exiciting and brutal rounds of the fight!
and why couldn't Jack Johnson have cracked several of Willard's ribs ?
you said youreslf he was a tremenous puncher.
Did you see Johnson go to Willard's body relentlesly for 25 rounds ?
Willard's upper body was noted to be blotched red beginning in round 7.
(and why would you figure round 7 be missing footage ?
sounds like one of the more exiciting and brutal rounds of the fight!