ALL-TIME IRISH BOXERS

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 17 Mar 2006, 03:09

John Fante is worth a peak too gentlemen if you like a bit of Bukowski. Fante's Ask The Dust is especially good.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 17 Mar 2006, 04:58

Ezzard wrote:John Fante is worth a peak too gentlemen if you like a bit of Bukowski. Fante's Ask The Dust is especially good.

The film based on that book just came out. Is it any good??

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 17 Mar 2006, 05:11

Nero3000 wrote:
Ezzard wrote:John Fante is worth a peak too gentlemen if you like a bit of Bukowski. Fante's Ask The Dust is especially good.
The film based on that book just came out. Is it any good??

Haven't seen the film. Didn't even know it was beign amde but I'll certainly give it a go.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » 18 Mar 2006, 20:38

Tom Sharkey should get some mention and I was wondering is there any footage of Rinty Monaghan.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 19 Mar 2006, 03:58

Irish wrote:Tom Sharkey should get some mention and I was wondering is there any footage of Rinty Monaghan.

Sure is. Go to ebay UK and see if you can get the DVD called either "Celtic Fists" or "Up to Scratch". It has footage of many of the great Celtic fighters. GREAT Rinty footage there.

I have Tom Sharkey tattooed on my right forearm(got it in Dublin, which is just south of Dundalk[Sharkey's home town]), so he gets more than a little mention from me!

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 21 Mar 2006, 08:57

Nero3000 wrote:

"And what about the mad Russian, Gogol?"

Gogol is a greatest and universal author, like Dostoïevsky, Tolstoï, and the mentioned E. A. Poe and L. F. Céline

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 21 Mar 2006, 21:06

Never saw what the big deal about Dostoyevsky's Crime And Punishment was. Before I read it, several people told me it was the greatest literary work of all time. Actually though it turned out to be a big disappointment like For Whom The Bell Tolls by Hemingway (Hemingway's personal life was way more interesting than any of his writings) or JD Salinger's Catcher In The Rye. I'll take Orwell and Steinbeck any day.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 22 Mar 2006, 00:30

Seamus wrote:Never saw what the big deal about Dostoyevsky's Crime And Punishment was. Before I read it, several people told me it was the greatest literary work of all time. Actually though it turned out to be a big disappointment like For Whom The Bell Tolls by Hemingway (Hemingway's personal life was way more interesting than any of his writings) or JD Salinger's Catcher In The Rye. I'll take Orwell and Steinbeck any day.

It was one of the first(and definitely most important) psychological dramas. I guess the hype made it more anticlimactic than anything for you. I understand that, which is why I NEVER listen to hype(hence why I refuse to read The Da Vinci Code until people stop telling me how much I'm supposed to love it).

Personally, I think Faulkner is America's greatest novelist as far as raw talent and imagination is concerned. The only author I can think of who actually startles me with his originality and power. Hemingway called him "Our leader. He blows us all away". Pretty high praise.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Mar 2006, 06:07

Nero3000 wrote:
Seamus wrote:Never saw what the big deal about Dostoyevsky's Crime And Punishment was. Before I read it, several people told me it was the greatest literary work of all time. Actually though it turned out to be a big disappointment like For Whom The Bell Tolls by Hemingway (Hemingway's personal life was way more interesting than any of his writings) or JD Salinger's Catcher In The Rye. I'll take Orwell and Steinbeck any day.
It was one of the first(and definitely most important) psychological dramas. I guess the hype made it more anticlimactic than anything for you. I understand that, which is why I NEVER listen to hype(hence why I refuse to read The Da Vinci Code until people stop telling me how much I'm supposed to love it).

Personally, I think Faulkner is America's greatest novelist as far as raw talent and imagination is concerned. The only author I can think of who actually startles me with his originality and power. Hemingway called him "Our leader. He blows us all away". Pretty high praise.

Yes, Faulkner is the master. His 4 masterpieces 'Light In August', 'The Sound and The Fury', 'Absalom Absalom' and 'As I lay Dying' are great pieces of literature.

Hem was far better at writing as an American in Europe. 'The Moveable Feas' and 'The Sun Also Rises' are 2 of my favourites.

There si an awful lot of hype surrounding Salinger's 'Catcher' but it obviously changed or forsaw the changes to our culture long before they happened. It's so in grained and accepted in our society today that it's difficult to appreciate just what a groundbreaking novel it was. "Literature is news that stays news," Pound once said, but maybe 'Catcher' is now so universal it no longer seems like the news but the accepted norm.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:04

As far as American authors, for me the big three in order are Farrell (I'll admit to being biased because he's a S Side Chicago Irishman) Steinbeck, and Twain. And as for poetry and short stories I got to go with Poe. Overall though, maybe this will flatter your native pride Ezzard, but in my opinion, the greatest literary mind in the history of the world was Dickens.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 22 Mar 2006, 18:17

Seamus wrote:As far as American authors, for me the big three in order are Farrell (I'll admit to being biased because he's a S Side Chicago Irishman) Steinbeck, and Twain. And as for poetry and short stories I got to go with Poe. Overall though, maybe this will flatter your native pride Ezzard, but in my opinion, the greatest literary mind in the history of the world was Dickens.

I think that Kurt Vonnegut is a great writer as well. He captures the whole post-60s, anti-war, theater-of-the-absurd vibe of American society. .

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Mar 2006, 02:35

Seamus wrote:As far as American authors, for me the big three in order are Farrell (I'll admit to being biased because he's a S Side Chicago Irishman) Steinbeck, and Twain. And as for poetry and short stories I got to go with Poe. Overall though, maybe this will flatter your native pride Ezzard, but in my opinion, the greatest literary mind in the history of the world was Dickens.

Charlie D is definitely a HW but some of his just bothers me. A champion of the working classes in some respects but... well I'll leave it for another time.

Twain is of course a greeat name and you can add Melville to that list too. I used to lecture in US Lit and the big 3 were always considered to be 'Moby Dick', 'Huck Finn' and 'Gatsby'

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 23 Mar 2006, 02:46

Ezzard wrote:
Seamus wrote:As far as American authors, for me the big three in order are Farrell (I'll admit to being biased because he's a S Side Chicago Irishman) Steinbeck, and Twain. And as for poetry and short stories I got to go with Poe. Overall though, maybe this will flatter your native pride Ezzard, but in my opinion, the greatest literary mind in the history of the world was Dickens.
Charlie D is definitely a HW but some of his just bothers me. A champion of the working classes in some respects but... well I'll leave it for another time.

Twain is of course a greeat name and you can add Melville to that list too. I used to lecture in US Lit and the big 3 were always considered to be 'Moby Dick', 'Huck Finn' and 'Gatsby'

I've always kinda considered Dickens to be the first literary sell-out. The guy wrote his novels in increments that appeared in the newspapers at the time and he was paid PER WORD, hence why he will take 3 full pages to describe friggin' barn door to you! I hate adjective blitzes and he does that a lot.

Great stories, I just hate the way he told them.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:00

The names you mentioned are greatest, but, what about Shakespeare, Henry James, Dylan Thomas, T. S. Eliot? I remember Hemingway, in a letter, as a boxing rating, put as World Champion William Shakespeare, and that he, Hemingway, was "fighting for to be the number one" but the "most difficult rival is Faulkner". Fortunatelly, all this authors, and others, of course, are greatest, and is a great pleausure to read their works (I only in Spanish), in all languages

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 23 Mar 2006, 21:32

Nero

That's the very thing that makes Dickens so brilliant. His descriptiveness, when you listen to him go on and on pointing out the details of the Maypole Inn in Barnaby Rudge (my alltime favorite novel) or the room in Scrooge's apt transformed for the arrival of the Ghost of Christmas Present, you feel like your actually there. Then when you read Dickens depicted accounts of characters like Barnaby Rudge or Daniel Quilp or Bill Sikes, you visualize them as if they were people you actually know.

Ezzard

I'm surprised The Grapes Of Wrath were not among those you mentioned. Along with Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, I'd say it's the most powerful American novel ever written. Saturday morning I'm going to the Newberry Library for a lecture by an author who will explain why Sinclair made The Jungle about Lithuanians. Actually I'm more interested in the Historical than the literary aspects of this.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 24 Mar 2006, 04:12

Seamus wrote:Nero

That's the very thing that makes Dickens so brilliant. His descriptiveness, when you listen to him go on and on pointing out the details of the Maypole Inn in Barnaby Rudge (my alltime favorite novel) or the room in Scrooge's apt transformed for the arrival of the Ghost of Christmas Present, you feel like your actually there. Then when you read Dickens depicted accounts of characters like Barnaby Rudge or Daniel Quilp or Bill Sikes, you visualize them as if they were people you actually know.

Ezzard

I'm surprised The Grapes Of Wrath were not among those you mentioned. Along with Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, I'd say it's the most powerful American novel ever written. Saturday morning I'm going to the Newberry Library for a lecture by an author who will explain why Sinclair made The Jungle about Lithuanians. Actually I'm more interested in the Historical than the literary aspects of this.

I guess. He just sounds masturbatory to me. I read about 75 pages of A Tale of Two Cities and threw it down. I don't need three pages of somebody describing a barn door or something equally mundane to me. BUT...I'm obviously wrong, as Dickens is a great writer and I am not*s*

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 27 Mar 2006, 10:22

A great writer search for a great reader, and here, fortunatelly, there are many great readers

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 27 Mar 2006, 17:57

One of my all-time favorite books- and Martin will appreciate this- is "100 Years of Solitude" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez; a novel and author HUGELY influenced by Faulkner.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 27 Mar 2006, 18:41

Nero3000 wrote:One of my all-time favorite books- and Martin will appreciate this- is "100 Years of Solitude" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez; a novel and author HUGELY influenced by Faulkner.

Nero,

It's absolutely true, García Márquez would be nothing without Faulkner; and "100 Years..." is a good book; as Céline, Beckett or Ionesco, Faulkner is the father of many good writers of all the world; I can't understand as Neruda or García Márquez received the Noble Prize that J. L. Borges, E. Mallea or Ionesco never wins

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 27 Mar 2006, 19:45

Nero, Martin, Expug, and others who appreciate classic literature, next month Giedrius Subacius' book The Lithuanian Jungle will become available. In The Lithuanian Jungle, Subacius identifies the people and places who Upton Sinclair used in his powerful 1905 novel which was set in the Back of the Yards area of Chicago. Saturday morning I spoke with Subacius before and after his lecture at the Newberry Library, and I think this will be a really fascinating book. Here's a link http://www.rodopi.nl/senj.asp?BookId=Baltic+5

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 30 Mar 2006, 08:45

Nero3000 wrote:1. Jimmy McLarnin
2. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
3. Tom Sharkey
4. Jack McAuliffe
5. Ike Weir
6. Mike McTigue
7. Rinty Monaghan
8. Barry McGuigan
9. George Gardner
10. Wayne McCullough

not a bad contribution from the Emerald Isle

What about Steve Collins?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 30 Mar 2006, 09:35

Seamus wrote:Nero, Martin, Expug, and others who appreciate classic literature, next month Giedrius Subacius' book The Lithuanian Jungle will become available. In The Lithuanian Jungle, Subacius identifies the people and places who Upton Sinclair used in his powerful 1905 novel which was set in the Back of the Yards area of Chicago. Saturday morning I spoke with Subacius before and after his lecture at the Newberry Library, and I think this will be a really fascinating book. Here's a link http://www.rodopi.nl/senj.asp?BookId=Baltic+5

Seamus

Thanks for the link.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 30 Mar 2006, 20:59

boxingchat wrote:
Nero3000 wrote:1. Jimmy McLarnin
2. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
3. Tom Sharkey
4. Jack McAuliffe
5. Ike Weir
6. Mike McTigue
7. Rinty Monaghan
8. Barry McGuigan
9. George Gardner
10. Wayne McCullough

not a bad contribution from the Emerald Isle
What about Steve Collins?

To my horror I realized I'd overlooked him after I'd already posted. Weird since I saw many of his bouts! I would place him around 7 or 8.

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