Post Your Scorecards

[Ambling Alp II]

Don't forget the Breland-Starling rematch was actually called a draw instead of Starling winning by several points.

[Seamus]

Now for a couple Larry Holmes fights I never scored.

Larry Holmes vs James "Bonecrusher" Smith

R1.10-9 LH
R2.10-9 JS
R3.10-9 LH
R4.10-9 LH
R5.10-9 JS
R6.10-10
R7.10-9 LH
R8.10-9 JS
R9.10-9 JS
R10.10-9 LH
R11.10-9 LH

Larry Holmes TKO 12 due to a badly cut eye on Bonecrusher Smith. 106-104 Holmes on my card at the time.

I had this one alot closer than the three judges who had Holmes ahead by 7-8-9 pts. Smih did very well at times when he pressured Holmes, but pretty much gave the fight away by allowing Holmes too much time to jab without even trying to counter for long periods in the bout. When you're a big strong guy with a solid chin and power, you've got to press the attack against your more skilled opponent.

Larry Holmes vs David Bey

R1.10-9 DB
R2.10-9 DB
R3.10-10
R4.10-9 DB
R5.10-9 LH
R6.10-9 LH
R7.10-9 LH
R8.10-7 LH (Bey down twice)
R9.10-9 LH

Larry Holmes TKO 10 (Bey stopped on his feet from a flurry of unanswered punches) Holmes ahead 87-83 on my card at the time

For 4 rounds Larry Holmes looked like his age had caught up with him, till things turned in the 5th. I had it closer than the judges who had Holmes up by 5-5-7 pts.

[scartissue]

https://youtu.be/OfQOdYTffp4

Ok, I found that fight I was mentioning re: Mark Breland and Troy Wortham. It happened in the 6th round and the 6th begins at 17:53. Wortham puts up stern resistance but Breland seems to be finally getting to him and drops him late in the 6th. He then attacks Wortham trying to stop him and the clock is ticking with Wortham under pressure. Breland keeps wailing away and the timekeeper does not ring the bell until Wortham lashes out with a left hook and the bell rings a full 12 seconds late. Am I paranoid? Maybe. But I detest that protected fighter thing.

[Seamus]

Alp, I was a little disappointed with Starling in the rematch, because he had a big lead thru 8, and then seemed to let up on Breland over the last 4 rds allowing him to make it closer than it should have been. I scored the rematch 116-114 for Starling.

[Seamus]

Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes I

R1.10-9 LH
R2.10-9 LH
R3.10-9 MS
R4.10-9 MS
R5.10-10
R6.10-9 MS
R7.10-9 MS
R8.10-9 MS
R9.10-9 LH
R10.10-10
R11.10-9 MS
R12.10-9 MS
R13.10-9 MS
R14.10-10
R15.10-9 MS

Michael Spinks 147-141

Michael Spinks unpredictable tactics and Larry Holmes inability to sustain pressure for more than a minute a round were the difference in this fight.Spinks ran, thru jabs from too far away. but then rushed in repeatedly and scored well with combos. Holmes rocked Michael several times, but just couldn't follow up on it. The judges scored it for the new IBF champion by 3-1-1 pts, which obviously I thought was too close.

[Seamus]

Wallace Bud Smith vs Jimmy Carter III

R1.10-9 WBS
R2.10-9 WBS
R3.10-9 WBS
R4.10-9 WBS
R5.10-9 WBS
R6.10-9 JC
R7.10-9 JC
R8.10-10
R9.10-10
R10.10-9 JC
R11.10-9 JC
R12.10-9 JC
R13.10-8 JC (Smith hurt my 2 left hooks to the jaw in the final minute nearly goes down twice)
R14.10-10
R15.10-9 JC

Jimmy Carter 145-142

This was a bad decision with the three judges scoring the fight for Smith by 4-4-8 pts.Judge Joe Blink later said he scored it for Carter by 4 pts. The AP also had Carter by 3.

Jimmy Carter was the more skillfull fighter but he gave away the first 5 rds by going toe to toe with Smith, who was just the busier of the two. Once Carter started doubling up on the jab and using the ring, the tide began to turn.

[crl333]

OK, here's a bout that I think I'm going to get a lot of people miffed at me, only because of the controversy surrounding this decision. I am talking about the Oscar DeLaHoya-Felix Sturm middleweight bout. I went into this totally expecting the robbery I have been hearing about for years (BTW, I never saw this bout. Missed it when it was aired live). I was ready to say before this fight that it was a Vegas decision to set up Oscar and Hopkins. I watched the British telecast on youtube with Jim Watt giving the blow-by-blow and his scorecard. Here is mine.

Round 1: 10-9 ODLH
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 ODLH
Round 4: 10-9 ODLH
Round 5: 10-9 Sturm
Round 6: 10-9 ODLH
Round 7: 10-9 Sturm
Round 8: 10-9 ODLH
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Sturm
Round 11: 10-9 Sturm
Round 12: 10-9 ODLH

Total: 116-114 ODLH

Official scorecards were 115-113 for Oscar by all three judges. Watt and Harold Lederman (I checked the end of the HBO telecast to see Harold's card) both had it 115-113 for Sturm. But is this the end of the story? I checked both of Watt's and Harold's scorecards and even though they had the same score, they disagreed on 8 rounds. Seriously, they only agreed on 4 rounds of that entire fight with one person going for Oscar and the other for Sturm and vice-versa. That will tell you the tightness in these rounds. I felt the fight was there for Sturm as I watched, but I do not feel he imposed anything on DeLaHoya who was ripe for the plucking. When Sturm threw punches he was accurate, but I don't think he threw enough. I felt Oscar was far busier and even though Sturm was the stronger of the two, he did not make it a physical match and stood back waiting on Oscar so he could counter. it was infuriating seeing this being handed to him and IMO unwilling to take it. I'd love to hear multiple views on this and I don't think we're going to be in unison on anything because personal criteria seems to be prominent regarding this fight.

1. OD
2. S
3. Ev
4. OD
5. Ev
6. S
7. S
8. Ev
9. S
10. S
11. S
12. S
118-113 Sturm

Looks like you, me, Watt and Lederman only had a consensus on two of the rounds.

[Seamus]

I've never watched this fight in it's entirety. Maybe I got time this morning ?

[Seamus]

Oscar De La Hoya vs Felix Sturm

R1.10-9 DLH
R2.10-10
R3.10-9 DLH
R4.10-9 DLH
R5.10-9 S
R6.10-9 DLH
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 S
R9.10-9 S
R10.10-9 S
R11.10-9 S
R12.10-9 S

Felix Sturm 116-114

I was actually disappointed with Sturm, who had to know by about the 4th rd, that Oscar couldn't hurt him, couldn't sustain attacks for very long, and could be backed up, and yet Sturm wasn't pressuring him.

[scartissue]

I thought I'd check out the Barry McGuigan-Stevie Cruz featherweight title fight after these many years. Man, what a pace for 15 rounds and in the Las Vegas desert to boot.

Round 1: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 2: 10-9 Cruz
Round 3: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 4: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 5: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 6: 10-9 Cruz
Round 7: 10-9 Cruz
Round 8: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 9: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 10: 10-8 Cruz (scores a knockdown)
Round 11: 10-9 Cruz
Round 12: 10-9 Cruz (scored it even but 1 point deducted from McGuigan for low blow)
Round 13: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 14: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 15: 10-7 Cruz (scores 2 knockdowns)

Total: 142-140 Cruz

Official scores unanimously for Cruz 143-142, 142-141 and 143-139. A few of the UK analysts had McGuigan just retaining his title, but although I was a big McGuigan supporter, I gotta call them the way I see them. Cruz must have really infuriated his corner when he would hold back after hurting a fighter. I saw him do the same thing when he fought Jorge Paez. He decked him, had out on his feet, but just wouldn't throw another punch let alone a finisher. I should also add that that was one Herculean effort by McGuigan to take the 13th and 14th on my card when there couldn't be much in the tank. Excellent fight.

[Seamus]

I can't bear to watch that fight, but i still maintain that if that bout was in the King's Hall Belfast, Cruz doesn't make it past the 10th.

[Ambling Alp II]

Oscar De La Hoya vs Felix Sturm

R1.10-9 DLH
R2.10-10
R3.10-9 DLH
R4.10-9 DLH
R5.10-9 S
R6.10-9 DLH
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 S
R9.10-9 S
R10.10-9 S
R11.10-9 S
R12.10-9 S

Felix Sturm 116-114

I was actually disappointed with Sturm, who had to know by about the 4th rd, that Oscar couldn't hurt him, couldn't sustain attacks for very long, and could be backed up, and yet Sturm wasn't pressuring him.

I scored it 114-114. I gave De La Hoya the last round, whcih could have gone to Sturm. It was a not a good fight.

[Seamus]

I thought it was decent certainly not a snoozer, and if I was Oscar's best friend in the world, I would have told him straight up "Dude, a fight with Hopkins will not end well for you".

[scartissue]

Checked out the title bout today between Sung Kil Moon and Greg Richardson. Here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Richardson
Round 2: 10-9 Richardson
Round 3: 10-9 Richardson
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Moon
Round 6: 10-9 Moon
Round 7: 10-9 Moon
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Moon
Round 10: 10-9 Moon
Round 11: 10-9 Richardson
Round 12: 10-7 Moon (scores 2 knockdowns)

Total: 116-112 Moon

I've got to hand it to Moon for his level of success in his career as well as this fight. This man was slow, clumsy, defenseless and threw clubbing punches out of awkward lunges, but he was absolutely relentless. Once Richardson could no longer stay on his bike by the 4th round, that Moon pressure took over.

[scartissue]

Not a very long fight to score, but I remember watching this fight live back in the day and thoroughly enjoying it. Both fighters hitting sharp and clean and it was a damn good fight as long as it lasted. Lupe Pintor vs. Jovito Rengifo.

Round 1: 10-9 Rengifo
Round 2: 10-9 Rengifo
Round 3: 10-9 Rengifo
Round 4: 10-9 Pintor
Round 5: 10-9 Pintor
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Pintor
Round 8: Pintor stops Rengifo

Total through 7 completed rounds: 67-67 Even

Although I had it even going into the 8th, one could see Rengifo slowly fraying at the edges. They griped at the stoppage, but it was a matter of time. Good fight.

[scartissue]

I wanted to have a look at the Ricardo Lopez-Rosendo Alvarez fights basically because of their controversial scores. I'll check out the rematch later but here is their first bout.

Round 1: 10-9 Lopez
Round 2: 10-8 Alvarez (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Lopez
Round 5: 10-9 Lopez
Round 6: 10-9 Lopez
Round 7: 9-9 Even (I gave the round to Alvarez only for Mercante to take a point away for the butt)
Round 8: Tech. decision is a draw with scores of 67-64 Lopez, 68-63 Alvarez and 66-66 Even.

My total through 7 completed rounds: 67-65 Lopez

It was a fight that had the feel that it was still unfolding with neither fighter really asserting themselves. However, I did like Lopez' workrate, although anything could have happened. BTW, I scored the 3rd round even despite the team of Ferdie, Czyz and Albert going for Lopez. I thought Lopez was short with his jabs and power shots like maybe he was giving that extra inch between them after the 2nd round knockdown. And I won't give points for strictly good intentions.

[Seamus]

My card is on here too. Think I had Alvarez up by 3 without looking. Lopez won the rematch though by a wide margin.

[scartissue]

Seamus, found your card and I also found Rover's scorecard on the fight (whatever happened to him?) Anyways, it does show how diverse this fight was on the scorecards. Rover and I leaned towards the one judges card, you leaned towards another and then there was the judge who saw it even-steven. Every so often we come across a fight like this where we all see something else that shapes a fight.

Ricardo Lopez vs Rosendo Alvarez I

1.10-9 RA
2.10-8 RA (Lopez down)
3.10-9 RA
4.10-9 RL
5.10-10 Even
6.10-10 Even
7.9-9 Even (1 pt taken from Alvarez for a headbutt)

Rosendo Alvarez 68-65

I wish it wasn't so, but I had Rosendo Alvarez
beating Ricardo Lopez on a technical decision after 7 rounds. Alvarez scored
a spectacular knockdown in the 2nd with a devastating right to Lopez's head,
which probably would have finished most competitors at this weight, but
Lopez proved his meddle by beating the count and then fighting his stronger
opponent on even terms the rest of the way. In this one though, I thought
Alvarez's power and pressure were enough to gain him the technical decision on my
card. One judge had Alvarez winning by 5 !

Rover's scorecard:

Lopez/Alvarez I
1: 10-9 Lopez
2: 10-8 Alvarez (KD)
3: 10-9 Lopez
4: 10-9 Lopez
5: 10-9 Lopez
6: 10-9 Lopez
7: 9-9 (point deduction because of stupid WBC rule)
Total: 67-64 Lopez

[Seamus]

Jimmy Carter vs Art Aragon II

I honestly don't understand the scoring system this fight was on so I'll do it by 10 pt must to give you an idea.

R1.10-9 AA
R2.10-9 AA
R3.10-9 JC
R4.10-9 JC
R5.10-9 JC
R6.10-8 JC (Aragon down from a left hook to the jaw)
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 JC
R9.10-9 AA
R10.10-9 JC
R11.10-9 JC
R12.10-9 JC
R13.10-8 JC (Aragon remains on his feet but in bad shape at the end of the rd)
R14.10-8 JC (Aragon badly punished but again stays on his feet)
R15.10-8 JC (part of rd missing, but Aragon was down this time)

Jimmy Carter 147-135

Wish there was more footage of Carter, because the guy had some very good skills. Aragon came out very aggressive but Carter took over in the 3rd and never looked back.

[scartissue]

Jimmy Carter vs Art Aragon II

I honestly don't understand the scoring system this fight was on so I'll do it by 10 pt must to give you an idea.

R1.10-9 AA
R2.10-9 AA
R3.10-9 JC
R4.10-9 JC
R5.10-9 JC
R6.10-8 JC (Aragon down from a left hook to the jaw)
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 JC
R9.10-9 AA
R10.10-9 JC
R11.10-9 JC
R12.10-9 JC
R13.10-8 JC (Aragon remains on his feet but in bad shape at the end of the rd)
R14.10-8 JC (Aragon badly punished but again stays on his feet)
R15.10-8 JC (part of rd missing, but Aragon was down this time)

Jimmy Carter 147-135

Wish there was more footage of Carter, because the guy had some very good skills. Aragon came out very aggressive but Carter took over in the 3rd and never looked back.

Seamus, for what it's worth, I did find the actual rounds scorecards on this fight. Frankie Van had it 9-4-2, Joe Stone had it 8-5-2 and Mushy Callahan had it 9-5-1. I believe they employed that 11 point must system on this fight that you and I discussed awhile back (your criteria for an even round being 5.5 to 5.5 and 6.5 to 4.5 for a round where there is a knockdown seems sound). And I plugged that criteria into Frankie Van's score and it came up as 86-79 for Carter rather than his 88-77. So basically what I'm saying is, I have no friggin' idea how they came up with their scores.

[Seamus]

Del Flanagan vs Sandy Saddler

I'm not even sure what the scoring system for this bout was. I called the 1st round even, and had Flanagan winning the other 9. I didn't see anything remotely approaching a 2 pt round, and the scores were 51-49 52-48 54-46 for Flanagan. Del Flanagan was trained by Willie Pep for this bout and you could see it in the way he moved throughout the bout. Saddler was unable to cutoff the ring, and was frequently hit with double jabs and combinations coming in.

[scartissue]

Joe Frazier vs. Joe Bugner

This and the first fight with Ali is about the 2 best fights I've seen Joe Bugner involved in. Man, a little more fire in his tank and there is no question this guy could have gone further than he did. I scored this - according to the announcer Brent Musburger - on the English scoring of 5 points to the winner of the round and 4 3/4 to the loser.

Round 1: Bugner
Round 2: Bugner
Round 3: Frazier
Round 4: Even
Round 5: Frazier
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Frazier
Round 8: Frazier
Round 9: Frazier
Round 10: Frazier (scores a knockdown)
Round 11: Frazier
Round 12: Frazier

Total: 59 1/2 - 57 3/4 for Frazier

I scored the 10th round 5 - 4 1/2 for Frazier with the knockdown. But despite the onesidedness in rounds, Bugner really did put up a good fight.

[scartissue]

Pardon a second Joe Bugner fight, but as long as it was in my head I wanted to check out Bug's fight with Ron Lyle. Saw it back in the day and I was lucky watching it as an entire show back then, because the first fight was one of my all-time favorites Armando Muniz fighting a 10 rounder against Antonio Leyva. And Muniz knocked Leyva kicking in the 1st round with two beautiful left hooks. Anyways, here we go. Ron Lyle against Joe Bugner, 5 point must system employed in Las Vegas.

Round 1: 5-4 Lyle
Round 2: 5-4 Lyle
Round 3: 5-4 Lyle
Round 4: 5-5 Even
Round 5: 5-4 Bugner
Round 6: 5-4 Bugner
Round 7: 5-4 Lyle
Round 8: 5-5 Even
Round 9: 5-4 Bugner
Round 10: 5-4 Lyle
Round 11: 5-4 Lyle
Round 12: 5-5 Even

Total: 57-54 Lyle

I just felt Lyle was the sharper hitter throughout although Joe had his moments. Officially, it was a split win for Ron and they utilized the novelty of posting their scores between rounds as well.

[scartissue]

I needed a good barn-burner to watch after those two Joe Bugner fights - despite the fact that these were two of Joe's better fights - and I got it with the 10 rounder between 'Irish' Art Hafey and Rodolfo Moreno. Wow! It really starts to heat up towards the end of the third and it is warfare after that with both fighters sustaining severe facial damage. If you don't want to score, then don't. Just sit back and enjoy this one. California scoring.

Round 1: Moreno
Round 2: Even (no points)
Round 3: Hafey
Round 4: Moreno (scores a knockdown - 2 points)
Round 5: Hafey
Round 6: Hafey
Round 7: Hafey
Round 8: Hafey (great round - neither fighter could see and they just winged them)
Round 9: Hafey
Round 10: Hafey scores a KO and he does it brutally

Total through 9 completed rounds: 6-3 Hafey on the points system

I once read an article on Hafey where he said something like, "people think the Danny Lopez fight ruined me, but it was the Rodolfo Moreno fight that ruined me. I was rushed into this fight after having an hernia operation and the swelling on my left eye partially ruined my vision permanently. It is no better or worse since the Moreno fight back in '76. I should have gone to the hospital, but instead, my manager took me to a party."

Scary stuff.

[dagosd2000]

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