gilgamesh wrote:
The situation you're referring to where Sam Peter got warned he used both of his hands to pound into the back of his opponents head (I think this was in one of the Toney fights)
I've only seen one other occasion that I recall where a fighter punched with both of his hands at the same time, and it was Emanuel Augustus throwing both of his hands straight into Ray Oliveira's face. As I recall he wasn't warned.
Watch Ali-Wepner 1st round for some incredible back of the head punching action. If Peter's punches were to the back of the head that would more than explain the warning.
Sometimes its a thin line between what's legal and not. Some guys turn their jab and its almost a backhand. We're all familiar with Holmes open and reaching jab. Another thing I probably have spent too much time thinking about is how do you score a very hard shot to the arm that seems to do damage? Think Marciano
I wouldn't count shots to the arm. There's generally gonna be more enough shots to the head and body to score during a round that arm shots would hardly be relevant.
It's isn't a target area so you can't score shots to the arm
They may wear a guy down some if you hit him hard or often enough, like Holyfield banging away on Qawis shoulder, but if he does wear down, that's the payoff of the punches to the arm, they shouldn't be rewarded with points on the scorecard too IMO
gilgamesh wrote:
The situation you're referring to where Sam Peter got warned he used both of his hands to pound into the back of his opponents head (I think this was in one of the Toney fights)
I've only seen one other occasion that I recall where a fighter punched with both of his hands at the same time, and it was Emanuel Augustus throwing both of his hands straight into Ray Oliveira's face. As I recall he wasn't warned.
Watch Ali-Wepner 1st round for some incredible back of the head punching action. If Peter's punches were to the back of the head that would more than explain the warning.
Sometimes its a thin line between what's legal and not. Some guys turn their jab and its almost a backhand. We're all familiar with Holmes open and reaching jab. Another thing I probably have spent too much time thinking about is how do you score a very hard shot to the arm that seems to do damage? Think Marciano
I wouldn't count shots to the arm. There's generally gonna be more enough shots to the head and body to score during a round that arm shots would hardly be relevant.
It's isn't a target area so you can't score shots to the arm
They may wear a guy down some if you hit him hard or often enough, like Holyfield banging away on Qawis shoulder, but if he does wear down, that's the payoff of the punches to the arm, they shouldn't be rewarded with points on the scorecard too IMO
gilgamesh wrote:
The situation you're referring to where Sam Peter got warned he used both of his hands to pound into the back of his opponents head (I think this was in one of the Toney fights)
I've only seen one other occasion that I recall where a fighter punched with both of his hands at the same time, and it was Emanuel Augustus throwing both of his hands straight into Ray Oliveira's face. As I recall he wasn't warned.
Watch Ali-Wepner 1st round for some incredible back of the head punching action. If Peter's punches were to the back of the head that would more than explain the warning.
Sometimes its a thin line between what's legal and not. Some guys turn their jab and its almost a backhand. We're all familiar with Holmes open and reaching jab. Another thing I probably have spent too much time thinking about is how do you score a very hard shot to the arm that seems to do damage? Think Marciano
I wouldn't count shots to the arm. There's generally gonna be more enough shots to the head and body to score during a round that arm shots would hardly be relevant.
I know there're not supposed to be counted but certain fights like some of Marciano's or Spinks-Ali 1, I remember the arm shots being very effective during a rope-a-dope scenario where the opponent is covering up. Spinks was told to hit Ali in the arms, and I think that tired Ali's arms. Rocky I believe broke blood vessels. There are certain times where if a fighter can't hit anything else, its better than missing or doing nothing. Perhaps more solid arm shots would have helped Foreman in Zaire.
Sure but if they're effective then the puncher may have chance to capitalise by hitting a more defenceless target, he shouldn't benefit on the cards as well IMO
Watch Ali-Wepner 1st round for some incredible back of the head punching action. If Peter's punches were to the back of the head that would more than explain the warning.
Sometimes its a thin line between what's legal and not. Some guys turn their jab and its almost a backhand. We're all familiar with Holmes open and reaching jab. Another thing I probably have spent too much time thinking about is how do you score a very hard shot to the arm that seems to do damage? Think Marciano
I wouldn't count shots to the arm. There's generally gonna be more enough shots to the head and body to score during a round that arm shots would hardly be relevant.
It's isn't a target area so you can't score shots to the arm
They may wear a guy down some if you hit him hard or often enough, like Holyfield banging away on Qawis shoulder, but if he does wear down, that's the payoff of the punches to the arm, they shouldn't be rewarded with points on the scorecard too IMO
Yep
The only way shots to the arm would count at all as far as scoring is if the other guy simply wasn't throwing back at all. Then the other guy would take the round for me simply for throwing punches while the other guy wasn't, but yes arm shots are not scoring blows. Effective or not.
Counter-puncher wrote:Sure but if they're effective then the puncher may have chance to capitalise by hitting a more defenceless target, he shouldn't benefit on the cards as well IMO
Generally if a round has such lackluster action that an arm shot had any bearing at all on how somebody was thinking of scoring the round it was probably a suck ass round of Boxing
Counter-puncher wrote:Sure but if they're effective then the puncher may have chance to capitalise by hitting a more defenceless target, he shouldn't benefit on the cards as well IMO
Generally if a round has such lackluster action that an arm shot had any bearing at all on how somebody was thinking of scoring the round it was probably a suck ass round of Boxing
gilgamesh wrote:
I wouldn't count shots to the arm. There's generally gonna be more enough shots to the head and body to score during a round that arm shots would hardly be relevant.
It's isn't a target area so you can't score shots to the arm
They may wear a guy down some if you hit him hard or often enough, like Holyfield banging away on Qawis shoulder, but if he does wear down, that's the payoff of the punches to the arm, they shouldn't be rewarded with points on the scorecard too IMO
Yep
The only way shots to the arm would count at all as far as scoring is if the other guy simply wasn't throwing back at all. Then the other guy would take the round for me simply for throwing punches while the other guy wasn't, but yes arm shots are not scoring blows. Effective or not.
I think we're all on the same page. Not a scoring blow, but can be effective at wearing the guy down, setting up scoring shots, or keeping your opponent off balance. Some arm shots have knocked fighters off balance.
If you're a puncher and are having trouble landing scoring blows and the guy is covering effectively, I'd say beat the crap out of the arm that's hitting you, even though you're not scoring, it may pay dividends.
Goodnight, Irene wrote:Does anybody remember the round or two when George wanted to show his mobility and started dancing around like a fool? I think he fell at one point. That was a sad sight." - Yancey[/b]
At least it was a round or two only. Frazier --- even less-suited to movement --- hippity-hopped about the ring in his rematch with Foreman for five consecutive rounds
Foreman fighting the farce five??? I watched it at a Gold's Gym were a lot of bodybuilders including Dan Howard and Arnold Swarzenegger were working out... They all stopped to watch the debacle for a couple minutes... Foreman threw a chair at Ali... It was Charlie Polite who fell to the canvas while he was dancing -- he was so uncoordinated it was ridiculous and just fell down without being touched.. Everybody started laughing so hard they were crying.. When Foreman started dancing they started laughing again.. Somebody said, "Turn that garbage off. He's not fighting anybody we all couldn't beat."
When Frazier started dancing in the 2nd Foreman fight he was doing an imitation of his favorite boxer and ring idol: Gypsy Joe Harris... Smokin' even shaved his head for the fight because Harris always had a shaved head... Frazier said, "I'm the black Kojack" ... That was another one of the most ridiculous displays I've ever seen.. Frazier actually thought he could beat Foreman with his Gypsy Joe strategy.
Goodnight, Irene wrote:Does anybody remember the round or two when George wanted to show his mobility and started dancing around like a fool? I think he fell at one point. That was a sad sight." - Yancey[/b]
At least it was a round or two only. Frazier --- even less-suited to movement --- hippity-hopped about the ring in his rematch with Foreman for five consecutive rounds
Foreman fighting the farce five??? I watched it at a Gold's Gym were a lot of bodybuilders including Dan Howard and Arnold Swarzenegger were working out... They all stopped to watch the debacle for a couple minutes... Foreman threw a chair at Ali... It was Charlie Polite who fell to the canvas while he was dancing -- he was so uncoordinated it was ridiculous and just fell down without being touched.. Everybody started laughing so hard they were crying.. When Foreman started dancing they started laughing again.. Somebody said, "Turn that garbage off. He's not fighting anybody we all couldn't beat."
When Frazier started dancing in the 2nd Foreman fight he was doing an imitation of his favorite boxer and ring idol: Gypsy Joe Harris... Smokin' even shaved his head for the fight because Harris always had a shaved head... Frazier said, "I'm the black Kojack" ... That was another one of the most ridiculous displays I've ever seen.. Frazier actually thought he could beat Foreman with his Gypsy Joe strategy.
What I ask myself was Foreman trying to be liked and failing miserably? Or was Foreman keen on playing the role of the bad guy wrestler?
Also wonder if Cosell's announcing was a bit tongue in cheek? I think most of the boxing community took the entertainment way too seriously.
the one mentioned "dirty" technique that George Foreman had brought along with him,even to his comback in 1987 was
"The wrapping right hook to the kidney"
BTW I thought Foreman looked a bit like his mean (old) self (in the ring)for this fight and check out him doing
the "Jack Johnson " pose at 7:10 of this clip
( also watch for the cool interview with Archie Moore at the beginning).
Brutu wrote: ↑30 Jan 2010, 11:38
Anyone here seen the televised rematch between Foreman and Peralta on tape?
It was part of a triple bill closed circuit event in May 1971.
Ernie Terrel-Luis Pires/Chicago/w10
Jimmy Ellis-George Chuvalo/Toronto/w10
George Foreman-Gregorio Peralta/ Oakland Ca./KO10
yeah, someone here had previously asked that question 12 years ago .
Now probably even more of a less of a chance now that anyone here has ever seen it .
Brutu wrote: ↑30 Jan 2010, 11:38
Anyone here seen the televised rematch between Foreman and Peralta on tape?
It was part of a triple bill closed circuit event in May 1971.
Ernie Terrel-Luis Pires/Chicago/w10
Jimmy Ellis-George Chuvalo/Toronto/w10
George Foreman-Gregorio Peralta/ Oakland Ca./KO10
yeah, someone here had previously asked that question 12 years ago .
Now probably even more of a less of a chance now that anyone here has ever seen it .
Brutu wrote: ↑30 Jan 2010, 11:38
Anyone here seen the televised rematch between Foreman and Peralta on tape?
It was part of a triple bill closed circuit event in May 1971.
Ernie Terrel-Luis Pires/Chicago/w10
Jimmy Ellis-George Chuvalo/Toronto/w10
George Foreman-Gregorio Peralta/ Oakland Ca./KO10
yeah, someone here had previously asked that question 12 years ago .
Now probably even more of a less of a chance now that anyone here has ever seen it .
The someone being you (Brutu) you weirdo
Genuinely creepy poster. Can you remember a post you wrote on Boxrec 12 years ago? Caracatus is crackers!
find out whatever became of Jim Pusateri and the Superior Boxing Club in Oakland,
and then ask if they can check in the closet or in some drawer somewhere
for a film reel or VHS copy of the fight.
Here is a link to the 35th professional boutof his career, George Foreman vrs Ted Gullick in 1972.
(notice one or two roundhouse right to the kidney's)
Holyfield-Qawi aside