How many champions did Sugar Ray Robinson beat?

[Crease]

Commentators, writers, "experts" and Internet posters constantly downplay the accomplishments of contemporary boxers and compare them unfavorably to legends of the past.. They tend to forget about the lousy fights and losses that Robinson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran, and other legends suffered.. They excuse their losses and lousy showings by claiming those eras were so much better and the competition and caliber of fighters were so much higher -- and that is a load of hogwash.

I disagree with you entirely Mr Kalan.

Fighters like SRR, Ali, Frazier, Foreman and the 4 kings all fought the best there was during their time, it's why they are such ring legends.

These days, the BIG fights don't often happen, we may get a BIG FIGHT between World Champions maybe once per year, but other than that there are a lot of mismatches sold as competitive events, when they clearly aren't. Case in point - Deontay Wilder - he's crude, but a very powerful puncher - how will we ever find out how good he is or could be without him facing a top 5 Heavyweight like Joshua, Klitschko or Ortiz.

Ambling Alp did a fantastic piece of research on this recently:
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 5#p4655995

[Kalan]

Sugar Ray Robinson ducked a lot of guys... I LOL when Ralph Jones offered to give Robinson a rematch. That's like Breidis Prescott and or Danny Garcia offering to fight Amir Khan again – or Tito Trinidad offering to fight Oscar De La Hoya again – or Terry Norris offering to fight Sugar Ray Leonard again – or Mike McCallum offering to fight Leonard anytime or any place – or Winky Wright offering to fight Oscar De La Hoya in a Super Welterweight Unification Fight – or Keith Thurman when he variously called out Marcos Maidana, Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather, and Amir Khan.

You see, there’re privileged characters in Boxing ... and there’re those they fear.

[Kalan]

Fighters like SRR, Ali, Frazier, Foreman and the 4 kings all fought the best there was during their time, it's why they are such ring legends

LOL.. See my above post for Robinson... Ali fought unranked Leon Spinks when Larry Holmes was the world's best Heavyweight... When Spinks was stripped of the title and Holmes won it from Norton??? ... Ali fought Spinks again and pretended Holmes didn't exist... Frazier ducked Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, and Earnie Shavers... Foreman ducked Larry Holmes forever.

The 4 kings never heard of Mike McCallum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMOqDLVFuk Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran all ducked Mike.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

16 reigning/future record 21-7-2 against fellow HOF

[Kalan]

His Middleweight Title Defense record: 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Mediocre at best

His Welterweight Title Defense record: 5-0 with 2 KO wins. Good...but who were the 5 challengers he fought? ... Four were pretty bad.

Tito Trinidad"s record in Welterweight Title Fights is: 16-0 with 13 KO wins... His challengers include Oscar De La Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, and Hector Camacho

[Ketchel]

"What Robinson challenger had the size or skills of a Daniel Jacobs or Canelo Alvarez?"

I would love to see either of those two guys make the middleweight limit on the day of the fight and take on SRR!

[ClivePatrickLyons]

His Middleweight Title Defense record: 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Mediocre at best

His Welterweight Title Defense record: 5-0 with 2 KO wins. Good...but who were the 5 challengers he fought? ... Four were pretty bad.

Tito Trinidad"s record in Welterweight Title Fights is: 16-0 with 13 KO wins... His challengers include Oscar De La Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, and Hector Camacho

Whittaker and Camacho blown up jr light/Lightweight's who were past their best he beat Oscar on points and that fight could have went either way back in SRR day there was no WBC/WBA/WBO/IBF/IBO to pick and choose who you fought SRR was past his best when he came back at 34 years old you pull this shit out of your ass every-time Kalan you are pathetic

[Kalan]

His Middleweight Title Defense record: 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Mediocre at best

His Welterweight Title Defense record: 5-0 with 2 KO wins. Good...but who were the 5 challengers he fought? ... Four were pretty bad.

Tito Trinidad"s record in Welterweight Title Fights is: 16-0 with 13 KO wins... His challengers include Oscar De La Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, and Hector Camacho

Whittaker and Camacho blown up jr light/Lightweight's who were past their best he beat Oscar on points and that fight could have went either way back in SRR day there was no WBC/WBA/WBO/IBF/IBO to pick and choose who you fought SRR was past his best when he came back at 34 years old you pull this poo out of your ass every-time Kalan you are pathetic

You're trying to distort facts. You deal in poo so it's your natural environment. Whittaker and Camacho were solid Welterweights when they lost to Trinidad. Camacho was 31 and still good. He went unbeaten for over 20 straight fights right after he lost to Trinidad. Robinson was 33, not 34 when he came back and lost badly to Ralph Jones.. He still had a dozen years left on his career so he was mid-career more than ancient.. I was comparing Welterweight Title Defenses. Robinson was 5-0 against carefully chosen opponents. Trinidad was 15-0 versus far better fighters.

[Counter-puncher]

Whitaker was an old cocaine addict when he fought Trinidad. So was Camacho.

[Kalan]

Un huh... Everyone Trinidad fought was falling apart early -- and everyone Robinson fought was peak career.

Neither Trinidad of Robinson were the greatest boxers -- not on a scale of: Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather, Golovkin, Ward, Kovalev and the like... Both of them walked into punches and hit the deck... They both had 40 straight wins to start their careers.. But 20 of Trinidad's first 40 fights were World Title Fights. All of Robinson's first 40 were non-title fights.

Trinidad fought guys on a much higher level with much better ring records to go 40-0 --- Oscar De La Hoya 31-0, Oba Carr 32-0, Yory Boy Campas 56-0, Larry Barnes 39-1, Hector Camacho 43-2, Pernell Whittaker, 40-2-1, Hugo Pineda 36-1-1, Fernando Vargas 20-0, William Joppy 32-1-1 -- Robinson fought few guys on that scale for his 40 - just Marty Servo 40-0-2.. The Servo rematch was a highly disputed SD for Robinson and the crowd was outraged.. They booed loudly for 15 minutes and the introduction of the next fight couldn't be heard because the crowd wouldn't let it go.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

His Middleweight Title Defense record: 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Mediocre at best

His Welterweight Title Defense record: 5-0 with 2 KO wins. Good...but who were the 5 challengers he fought? ... Four were pretty bad.

Tito Trinidad"s record in Welterweight Title Fights is: 16-0 with 13 KO wins... His challengers include Oscar De La Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, and Hector Camacho

Whittaker and Camacho blown up jr light/Lightweight's who were past their best he beat Oscar on points and that fight could have went either way back in SRR day there was no WBC/WBA/WBO/IBF/IBO to pick and choose who you fought SRR was past his best when he came back at 34 years old you pull this poo out of your ass every-time Kalan you are pathetic

You're trying to distort facts. You deal in poo so it's your natural environment. Whittaker and Camacho were solid Welterweights when they lost to Trinidad. Camacho was 31 and still good. He went unbeaten for over 20 straight fights right after he lost to Trinidad. Robinson was 33, not 34 when he came back and lost badly to Ralph Jones.. He still had a dozen years left on his career so he was mid-career more than ancient.. I was comparing Welterweight Title Defenses. Robinson was 5-0 against carefully chosen opponents. Trinidad was 15-0 versus far better fighters.

You know shit Camacho was effectively finished at that weight and you know it he went undefeated for 20 fights after Trinidad name one world class fighter he beat matter of fact name 3 and that will make it real you know nothing about boxing you idiot

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Whittaker and Camacho blown up jr light/Lightweight's who were past their best he beat Oscar on points and that fight could have went either way back in SRR day there was no WBC/WBA/WBO/IBF/IBO to pick and choose who you fought SRR was past his best when he came back at 34 years old you pull this poo out of your ass every-time Kalan you are pathetic

You're trying to distort facts. You deal in poo so it's your natural environment. Whittaker and Camacho were solid Welterweights when they lost to Trinidad. Camacho was 31 and still good. He went unbeaten for over 20 straight fights right after he lost to Trinidad. Robinson was 33, not 34 when he came back and lost badly to Ralph Jones.. He still had a dozen years left on his career so he was mid-career more than ancient.. I was comparing Welterweight Title Defenses. Robinson was 5-0 against carefully chosen opponents. Trinidad was 15-0 versus far better fighters.

You know poo Camacho was effectively finished at that weight and you know it he went undefeated for 20 fights after Trinidad name one world class fighter he beat matter of fact name 3 and that will make it real you know nothing about boxing you idiot

SRR WAS NEARLY 34 GOOSE

[Kalan]

Robinson was 33 turd sucker... It was January and and he wasn't 34 until April... Stop lying your ass off... In his 21-fight unbeaten streak following his loss to Trinidad, Camacho beat rising young Welterweight Gary Kirkland, 23-0... and also beat crafty ATG fighters Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Robinson was 33 poop sucker... It was January and and he wasn't 34 until April... Stop lying your ass off... In his 21-fight unbeaten streak following his loss to Trinidad, Camacho beat rising young Welterweight Gary Kirkland, 23-0... and also beat crafty ATG fighters Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard.

January/February/march/APRIL

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Robinson was 33 poop sucker... It was January and and he wasn't 34 until April... Stop lying your ass off... In his 21-fight unbeaten streak following his loss to Trinidad, Camacho beat rising young Welterweight Gary Kirkland, 23-0... and also beat crafty ATG fighters Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard.

So Gary Kirkland was a rising young welterweight I dare you Kalan to put his record up so we can all see the fib's you like to make up Kirkland was at best a club fighter and a pretty good one at that in his 28 win's ONLY 2 YES I WILL REPEAT IT ONLY 2 OF KIRKLANDS OPPONENT'S IN THEM 28 WIN'S HAD WINNING RECORD'S YOU ARE GETTING WORST Kalan Camacho who was 52-3 but certainly past his best the other one was Ali Kareem Muhammad who's mediocre record was 15-13-1 barely a winning record so you see you fib's are exposing you Kalan and Duran was so over the hill he was 45 years old in his first clash with Camacho they had the hide to fight him again when he turned 50 year's old and as for Sugar Ray Leonard he was more washed up than Duran when he fought Hector he was 40 year's old and had not fought for 6 year's

[Kalan]

So what???? Both Leonard and Duran were great fighters... Camacho is the only guy to knock Leonard out and he also beat Duran...as he was going on a 21 fight undefeated streak after being dominated by Felix Trinidad... Gary Kirkland was a rising Welterweight because he won all his professional fights except for getting knocked out by Hector Camacho.. Kirkland's victims had over 300 wins in total.

[Kalan]

Robinson was 33 poop sucker... It was January and and he wasn't 34 until April... Stop lying your ass off... In his 21-fight unbeaten streak following his loss to Trinidad, Camacho beat rising young Welterweight Gary Kirkland, 23-0... and also beat crafty ATG fighters Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard

January/February/march/APRIL

Right..so don't continually fudge facts and misrepresent his age.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

So what???? Both Leonard and Duran were great fighters... Camacho is the only guy to knock Leonard out and he also beat Duran...as he was going on a 21 fight undefeated streak after being dominated by Felix Trinidad... Gary Kirkland was a rising Welterweight because he won all his professional fights except for getting knocked out by Hector Camacho.. Kirkland's victims had over 300 wins in total.

YOU ARE THE BIGGEST BULL ARTIST ON THIS SITE YOU ARE A IMPOSTER

[Kalan]

I state verifiable facts... You deal in flat out lies, exaggerations, distortions, myth, hype, and hero worship of figments, legends, and fairytales.

[BoxBuzz]

Well there are facts....and there are "factoids".

And they can be spun, by those with an honest passion....or a bias agenda........each a very close cousin of the other.

[Kalan]

Well there are facts....and there are "factoids".

And they can be spun, by those with an honest passion....or a bias agenda........each a very close cousin of the other.

People with no argument invented the word "spin" ... If you try to force them to look at raw facts and data without bias that's spin to them. They start attacking you as a spinner instead of the data you're presenting which they can't refute... Why don't they put their own spin on the facts??? ... They can't... They're backed into a corner and have no way to explain the losses and poor showings by their heroes except to make statements that are verifiable bullcrap.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Well there are facts....and there are "factoids".

And they can be spun, by those with an honest passion....or a bias agenda........each a very close cousin of the other.

People with no argument invented the word "spin" ... If you try to force them to look at raw facts and data without bias that's spin to them. They start attacking you as a spinner instead of the data you're presenting which they can't refute... Why don't they put their own spin on the facts??? ... They can't... They're backed into a corner and have no way to explain the losses and poor showings by their heroes except to make statements that are verifiable bullcrap.

Your the biggest SPINNER on here you BAG LEGEND'S like SRR and the rest but you try put a SPIN on this fighter whats his name Kirland Laing no no its Gary Kirkland SPIN shit that he was a good fighter when his record suggest other wise you fibber

[Kalan]

I didn't say he was a good fighter... He had a good record and was a rising Welterweight... That's why he got a fight with Macho Camacho... He got beaten, beaten up, and stopped for the only time in his career -- but he made a fair purse for a ham-n-egger out of that beating.

I'm not sure Gary Kirkland was his real name. Sounds like a ring name he preferred to his own... Like "Ray Robinson" wasn't Walker Smith's real name. Robinson also padded his record with dozens of fighters with miserable records.. The usual suspects instead of fighting the toughest guys in his weight class. After Ralph Jones beat the living crap out of Sugar Ray Robinson he couldn't get a rematch to save his life...

[APerno]

On Boxrec's biography it says he defeated 16 former,current, or future world champions. I have been able to find 15, but not 16. Can anyone help me out? My list so far:

champions defeated (in no particular order)

1. Fritzie Zivic (World WW)
2. Sammy Angott (World LW)
3. Kid Gavilan (World WW)
4. Henry Armstrong (World FW,LW,WW)
5. Jake Lamotta (World MW)
6. Randy Turpin (World MW)
7. Rocky Graziano (NBA MW)
8. Carl Oslon (World MW)
9. Carmen Basilio (World WW,MW)
10. Marty Servo (World WW)
11. Gene Fullmer (World MW)
12. Denny Moyer (WBC WBA World LMW)
13. Ralph Dupas (WBC WBA World LMW)
14. Izzy Jannazzo (Maryland version?? WW)
15. Maxie Berger (Montreal Athletic Commission LWW)

Here's the rest of the story...

Turpin, Fullmer, and Basilio beat Robinson for the Middleweight Title before he beat them.. LaMotta also has a win over Robinson.. Graziano was at the tail end of his career... Jannazzo and Berger weren't real champs... And some of those opponents—like Henry Armstrong—were flagrantly terrible mismatches... guys who made no effort whatever to fight and the fans booed the fight out.

Ralph Dupas was dominated by Emile Griffith 6 months before he fought SRR to a SD.. Robinson refused all offers to fight Griffith.. He was well protected

I never saw the Armstrong fight - I realize he was at the end of his career but I am surprised that he would have been booed - Turpin belongs in the list because he was champ but that was only because be beat SRR - I find it hard to give SRR credit for 'beating a champion' - find it hard to call Turpin a champion in that sense .

[Kalan]

I never saw the Armstrong fight - I realize he was at the end of his career but I am surprised that he would have been booed - Turpin belongs in the list because he was champ but that was only because be beat SRR - I find it hard to give SRR credit for 'beating a champion' - find it hard to call Turpin a champion in that sense

The same thing with Carmen Basilio. He never became Middleweight Champion except by also scoring a major upset over Robinson.

Fullmer beat Robinson and a washed out, undersized Basilio for his Middleweight Titles. Fullmer couldn't beat an older Dick Tiger in 3 fights with him.. Tiger overpowered Fullmer with a brutal crowding style similar to Ralph Jones. Robinson was never interested in fighting Tiger. Considering all the 2nd raters Robinson was matched with in non-title fights, it's interesting that he never fought mid 50's versions of Joey Giardello or Joey Giambra.

Gustav Scholz was able to secure only one fight in the United States -- against Al Andrews, who he beat easily, in 1954. He was persona no grata after that. The German was a clever Middleweight who lost only 2 of 96 fights and was never close to being stopped.