Vitali Klitschko: Best Win?

[Kalan]

Holyfield - fought on for a few years correct, but another shot fighter. Lost to Toney, Donald, valuev, Ruiz... when is this a credible fight?

Before and after Vitali won a Heavyweight TItle from Herbie Hide... If he was credible for Lewis, Toney, Ruiz, etc. he was credible for Klitschko.

[Counter-puncher]

Hide wasn't credible for anyone

[Ossyrules]

Holyfield - fought on for a few years correct, but another shot fighter. Lost to Toney, Donald, valuev, Ruiz... when is this a credible fight?

Before and after Vitali won a Heavyweight TItle from Herbie Hide... If he was credible for Lewis, Toney, Ruiz, etc. he was credible for Klitschko.

Toney battered a shot holy

Ruiz won drew and lost to a past it holy

Lewis beat a past his best holy but still had enough to compete at times during the fight

[Kalan]

Hide wasn't credible for anyone

That's an emotional and contemptuous statement...not a thinking statement... Hide was 6'2" X 221 for Vitali with a 31-1 ring record... His prior 2 challengers had 1 loss each and 20 something victories.. Before that Hide won the title by pounding Tony Tucker out in 2 rounds, the quickest anyone ever put Tucker away.. Hide was a 2-time Heavyweight Champion who destroyed Michael Bentt for his 1st title.. Bentt was a very poor technical boxer, but he blew away Tommy Morrison in the 1st round...which is something George Foreman couldn't do.

Hide's only previous loss before Vitali came when he lost his first World Title to the much bigger, taller, and stronger Riddick Bowe in Las Vegas. Hide brilliantly out-boxed Bowe for 2 plus rounds, but when the American made it extremely physical he didn’t have a chance. Bowe knew he wasn't going to win a boxing match the way the first 2 rounds went. This was a fight in Vegas with a British World Champion where an American Boxing Commission appointed an American referee and 3 American judges. I knew Bowe was going to beat Hide even though Bowe said Hide was the hardest puncher he ever faced.. Hide wasn't that big a puncher, it’s just that Bowe was so easy to hit Herbie nailed him with flush right hands for 10 minutes.

Hide's downfall was rabbit punches. He had zero resistance to them. If he did he would have had a much better career. Bowe caught him with a right behind the ear in the 3rd. Hide’s legs turned to noodles and he fell on his face. The fight was over at that point. It went 3 more super sloppy rounds, with Hide sporadically hitting Bowe with hard combinations, but he was getting shoved around and man-handled in the clinches and his legs never came back. Vitali had a much cleaner and faster win over him.

[Counter-puncher]

Hides downfall was being chinny as fvck and very stupid

[Kalan]

Again, an emotional and hateful statement... He was a 2-time Heavyweight Champion with some great wins.

[Counter-puncher]

He was a 2-time Heavyweight Champion with some great wins.

Who?

Tucker was ancient and had lost to Bruce seldon and others including Akinwande and Orlon Norris long before turning up to lose against Hide

Bennt as you have said yourself was shite

It's pathetic how you bump the rosters of a crappy fighter in Hide just to try and bump Vitalis roster

Name a great win of Hide, just name one

[Kalan]

Anytime you become a 2-time Heavyweight Champion it's a great win... Hide stopped Tucker much faster than anyone else ever stopped him.

Bentt was not a good boxer but he could throw hard and he was big and strong and take a shot... He flattened Morrison, which I think it's wonderful for a cherry-picking jerk to get flattened... And it wasn't real bad for HIde to put Bentt in his place and end his career either -- because it's an embarrassment to have a Heavyweight Champion who's 11-1 and his best win is over Tommy Morrison.

Willi Fischer and Damon Reed were much better than Bentt... They weren't finished boxers, but they had 20 something wins and 1 loss each... Hide destroyed them quickly so he did what he should do with that caliber of challenger... Everybody fights guys like that if they can.. He stepped up and fought Bowe and Vitali who were too big and strong for him.. Guys like Morrison, Golota, Donald, Byrd, Bean, and Ruiz would have been better challengers for him.

[Counter-puncher]

Wait, you're naming WILLIE FISCHER and DAMON REED, along with Tucker and Bentt, as GREAT wins?

You're saying these were great wins?

[Ossyrules]

Hide is clearly fringe world level imo. The 2 times he stepped up he got beat handily and brutally

I like herbie he's an exciting watch, but that is his level

[Noxy]

Turn it round - who actually beat Vitali? Two people and each time there, shall we say, 'circumstances'. So who really put him in his place or showed him his level.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Vitali essentials, 45-2, 41 KO, 15-2, 9 KO title record, 87% KO ratio. Retired for 4 years from injuries and pursuant political ambitions to return without tuneup to win back title for several more years before retiring as WBC Emeritus Champ and Mayor of Kiev. Never behind on the cards in a fight and only two fight losses due to injuries requiring extensive surgery.

Substantial Wins

Herbie Hide
Larry Donald
Kirk Johnson
Corrie Sanders
Danny Williams
Samuel Peter
Juan Carlos Gomez
Chris Arreola
Kevin Johnson
Albert Sosnowski
Shannon Briggs
Tomasz Adamek
Dereck Chisora
Manuel Charr

Most all the above were prime and Ring ranked, 4 were undefeated and 4 with 1 loss only,5 former/current belt holders, and Briggs the record holder for the most 1st rd KOs. Adamek guaranteed in the HOF and maybe later Corrie Sanders. Vitali specialized in knocking out the unknockable, at least a dozen of them on his record. Never took much punishment in the ring either, having almost complete control of range and opponent.

Losses to Lewis and Byrd, both HOFers if as expected Byrd makes it

*Most of the above beats the comp of every champ that came before him as well as most champs. Fitz a magnificent legacy, but he and Corbett, Hart, Burns, Tunney, Schmeling>Patterson give up way to much size Only 5 champs could compete with him in Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Foreman, and Lewis. The other big guys like Jeffries, Johnson, Willard, Carnera, Tubby Lar and the WBA/WBC champs he ducked and so forth are usually giving up size and in spite of the moaning of of disreputable modern boxing fans, nobody executed boxing basics better than Vitali: Educated and concussive left, concussive Right, and very unique, underrated footwork that almost always kept in his personal range or out of danger and never off balance. Could go 12 rds at a high pace if needed, titanium chin. Had he and Wlad turned pro with quality pro trainers, would've been a lot less of the few losses they took as they were literally learning on the fly.

*Now as the specious claim that Tyson and Mr. Field were not relevant as contenders in his era, he first made the Annual Ring Ratings in 1999, so lo & behold ye of little faith and a whole lotta nonsense:

1.Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Michael Grant
Ike Ibeabuchi
David Tua
Mike Tyson
Vitali Klitschko
Andrew Golota
Derrick Jefferson
10.Oleg Maskaev

Wlad made the list the very next year in 2000. Mr Field last ranked in 2002 and Tyson in 2003, so a 4 and 5 year overlap as contenders with Vitali. Yeah, kinda feels stupid to feel stupid for you dumpties when that happens, but no worries as your potty duties quickly smother anything you ever learned and your back to spewing forth as before. Vitali chased heaven and hell trying to make those fights including the Lewis fight he took on 2 weeks notice and the rematch that Lewis gave up his largest purse to retire days before the WBC stripped him.

Yeah, and since when is one of the purest forms of a fighter who ever existed is not lauded in their own time? Lets cut to the chase here, it don't matter if Vitali were Superman saving your family and country, you just ain't gonna ever like him or credit him because that's what small minded Dummkopfs like Teddy Atlas blather who is only one degree removed from being a Ted Bundy whenever he pulls out his pistol to go looking for someone. What ever floats your sinking boats for now, but now at least you got Beyonce Wilder to bail for you!

[Ambling Alp II]

So really nothing.
Interesting that Broughton is always obsessed with Holyfield and performance enhancing drugs but doesn't seem to have a problem with Klitschko.

[Kalan]

You don't seem to have any problem with that filthy fouling bastard, Lennox Lewis.

[BoxBuzz]

If one wasn't there, then one doesn't know.....one might want to quit imagineering that one does.


Just because it's in your minds eye.....does not mean that it genuinely happened.


A genuine FACT....and something that needs to be pointed out more and more often these days.


Such speculation is no better than folks in the insurance business working with actuary tables. All you can do is give some odds regarding likely hood.

How quickly people want to promote themselves from odds makers and statisticians to first hand witnesses.

[Kalan]

You're the Imagineer In Chief... I watched the fight live while it happened... I also examined the video record very carefully and that doesn't lie.

According to police reports, eye witnesses are extremely unreliable... Many of them imagineer a lot of things... That's why cold hard evidence has gotten 167 falsely convicted innocent victims of the law out of prison in capital cases... Prosecutors, eye witnesses and juries like to imagineer things.

Just like you do. Too bad a lot of evidence in many capital cases has been destroyed. Or many others would be out of prison.. They'll have to wait for the next life to be exonerated and I'm certain they will be in spades -- because that's the way divine justice works.

[Klee Gluckman]

Too much nonsense. Vitali has never beaten a top 30 heavyweight in any shape of form. Wlad at least has a resume.

[Ossyrules]

- Vitali essentials, 45-2, 41 KO, 15-2, 9 KO title record, 87% KO ratio. Retired for 4 years from injuries and pursuant political ambitions to return without tuneup to win back title for several more years before retiring as WBC Emeritus Champ and Mayor of Kiev. Never behind on the cards in a fight and only two fight losses due to injuries requiring extensive surgery.

Substantial Wins

Herbie Hide
Larry Donald
Kirk Johnson
Corrie Sanders
Danny Williams
Samuel Peter
Juan Carlos Gomez
Chris Arreola
Kevin Johnson
Albert Sosnowski
Shannon Briggs
Tomasz Adamek
Dereck Chisora
Manuel Charr

Most all the above were prime and Ring ranked, 4 were undefeated and 4 with 1 loss only,5 former/current belt holders, and Briggs the record holder for the most 1st rd KOs. Adamek guaranteed in the HOF and maybe later Corrie Sanders. Vitali specialized in knocking out the unknockable, at least a dozen of them on his record. Never took much punishment in the ring either, having almost complete control of range and opponent.

Losses to Lewis and Byrd, both HOFers if as expected Byrd makes it

*Most of the above beats the comp of every champ that came before him as well as most champs. Fitz a magnificent legacy, but he and Corbett, Hart, Burns, Tunney, Schmeling>Patterson give up way to much size Only 5 champs could compete with him in Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Foreman, and Lewis. The other big guys like Jeffries, Johnson, Willard, Carnera, Tubby Lar and the WBA/WBC champs he ducked and so forth are usually giving up size and in spite of the moaning of of disreputable modern boxing fans, nobody executed boxing basics better than Vitali: Educated and concussive left, concussive Right, and very unique, underrated footwork that almost always kept in his personal range or out of danger and never off balance. Could go 12 rds at a high pace if needed, titanium chin. Had he and Wlad turned pro with quality pro trainers, would've been a lot less of the few losses they took as they were literally learning on the fly.

*Now as the specious claim that Tyson and Mr. Field were not relevant as contenders in his era, he first made the Annual Ring Ratings in 1999, so lo & behold ye of little faith and a whole lotta nonsense:

1.Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Michael Grant
Ike Ibeabuchi
David Tua
Mike Tyson
Vitali Klitschko
Andrew Golota
Derrick Jefferson
10.Oleg Maskaev

Wlad made the list the very next year in 2000. Mr Field last ranked in 2002 and Tyson in 2003, so a 4 and 5 year overlap as contenders with Vitali. Yeah, kinda feels stupid to feel stupid for you dumpties when that happens, but no worries as your potty duties quickly smother anything you ever learned and your back to spewing forth as before. Vitali chased heaven and hell trying to make those fights including the Lewis fight he took on 2 weeks notice and the rematch that Lewis gave up his largest purse to retire days before the WBC stripped him.

Yeah, and since when is one of the purest forms of a fighter who ever existed is not lauded in their own time? Lets cut to the chase here, it don't matter if Vitali were Superman saving your family and country, you just ain't gonna ever like him or credit him because that's what small minded Dummkopfs like Teddy Atlas blather who is only one degree removed from being a Ted Bundy whenever he pulls out his pistol to go looking for someone. What ever floats your sinking boats for now, but now at least you got Beyonce Wilder to bail for you!

Long posts are hard to respond to cos I forget half of the stuff you've put.

If you rate the klitschko era in terms of competition, you'll rate the klitschkos as they dominated said era. Simple. However here are what 99% of the boxing world with eyeballs see

Danny Williams - British level. Failed at European level, please don't use the tyson fight as any kind of level. Williams is not even European level let alone a substantial win for the dominant world champ.

Herbie - European level/fringe world level. Got dealt with brutally when fighting a genuine world level opponent

Kevin Johnson - bum. Not world level. Knows enough tricks to get a guy on the way up rounds. Joshua dealt with him how a proper heavy at top level should

Chisora - European level/gatekeeper to the world scene. A tough enough guy but limited boxer. Every time he's stepped up he's been beaten.

Briggs - old as hell and miles past it when Vitali fought him. A world level boxer in his era. Lennox Lewis blasted him out there in his peak. A points decision years and years later is not a substantial win when the guy is so old

Can't remember the rest of the names but there's no real issues as there isn't 1 who is of standard to say he's a quality operator. Nobody in boxing history would argue this except boxrec forum posters

Byrd - he was injured in defeat which is unlucky

Lewis - he was badly cut which is unlucky, but the injuries were caused by the fight, so that's boxing. It matters not that he started the fight better and was up on the cards. Lewis beat him. And without making this a Lewis Vitali thread, Lewis was old and out of shape, was turning the fight his way, and it was stopped. He lost. It's the fight I give credit to Vitali for more than any other, but he lost. This is boxing

He was a limited boxer skill set wise. His brother had better fundamentals. But he was very big, and very tough, credit to that. But let's be real.

I've already explained how the Tyson, bowe and holy fights weren't on above and won't be repeating it. Scroll up.

[Counter-puncher]

I love the idea of a dude supposedly having an 'educated and concussive left hand' when he basically hardly threw
a left hook, never threw an uppercut, and never threw it to the body. At all.

If that's educated, it's not very well educated.

[Ossyrules]

I love the idea of a dude supposedly having an 'educated and concussive left hand' when he basically hardly threw
a left hook, never threw an uppercut, and never threw it to the body. At all.

If that's educated, it's not very well educated.

Yeah that was the point I was trying to make when I talk of skill set but I forgot how the guy had worded it cos his post was so long!

His left was a jab. Decent jab, but you'd like to think so with a massive height and reach adv over all opponents

[Tomasino]

Where are you getting your timelines from?

Not recommending you do this but if you were to sniff them you'd know where he pulls them out of

His mum?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

So really nothing.
Interesting that Broughton is always obsessed with Holyfield and performance enhancing drugs but doesn't seem to have a problem with Klitschko.

- A rather facile, flaccid response that represents a shadow of truth lacking any substance.

Imagine any of us growing up in a vast military empire at age 20 only to wake up to find the nation has been torn asunder as happened to Vitali and almost happened to the US during the Civil War. Had the South won, they and the North would've further split at the Mississippi with more fractions after that. Options would be to stick to farming, ranching, or factory work in the cities and probably forced by honor or conscription to join a militia. Vitali had different limited options.

Steroid Background: Circa mid 1970s I was in a hospital setting in an educational intern program, and during the private discussion by the Doc over current prognosis of an elderly patient having undergone serious surgery, I politely asked why he had proscribed testosterone wanting affirmation of what I already knew that he confirmed. He further allowed as he thought it a miracle drug for wide spread use for better health.

A decade later on a construction job, on break a fella was talking about his west Texas championship highschool football days. I asked what position he played, and it was tackle, one of the big boy spots. This guy was only about 5-9 and 200 lbs of lump, but he told me he had been at 225 lbs and hard as a rock. Incredulous, I asked about his weight lifting, and he said nada, but the coaches kept them supplied with the same hormones the ranchers used on their cattle.

Now, the top two earning action hero stars of our era are admitted user Arnie, and busted user Rocky, and the stuff bleeds into ever high and low station in the US from dog and cock fighting to politics. Vitali inherited Soviet trained coaches still operating under the communist party. A peer, Vasyl Jirov recounts his coaches catching him in a hallway and releasing some guard dogs on him to teach him how to fight if you want to see how they operated. Vitali says he had a leg injury from his kickboxing days that they proscribed steroids much as a US doc would do. Given how political Vitali is, maybe they did so purposely knowing about the drug testing to get him kicked off the team, but regardless, that was 1996. As a pro, nada though we all know anyone could be using including you and myself the way the system is set up.

Fine if you want to dismiss him for that reason. We also know now just how dirty the USADA, VADA, and UKIP have proven to be, so we live in a nothing is relevant world now save for those of us who care to read between the lines of the dubious officious pronouncements. I've never used though offered because my body makes plenty enough of my own testosterone, but obviously plenty insecure enough to partake such as your action heroes and some of your pro boxers. Changes nothing. The Klitschkos and their comp beat most champs and/or their comp, the top names ducked them, and they emasculated all the potential greats coming up. It's a new era of heavyweight boxing that's engraved in stone.

C'est la vie.

[Ambling Alp II]

Whatever.

[Caractacus]

If you were to ask me,Vitali Klitschko loses were due to self-inflicted injuries.
so he pretty much just TKO'd himself.
The loss to Byrd was due to the fact he threw a punch to end all punches but miscalculated and missed
and tore his rotator cup in his shoulder causing not only torn muscle fibers but excruciating pain for every nano-second
afterwards.
In the fight with Lennox Lewis (which Vitali Klitschko was dominating)
that was a frak occurance,he leaned back just when Lewis threw a right hand,
and that fraction of a millemeter between his brow and the slight snap end of Lewis punch
caused just the right distance to inflict a cut like it was done by a razor blade
(unless the cut had been caused by an elbow,which is possible,and was thought to have been the source
just after it happened to some)
also his earlier loss in the kicking boxing bout ,I think he injured himself in that one too)

[Caractacus]

any win is a good win.