George Foreman says modern hwts "just as good" as Ali eras

[Kalan]

......my own recollections are.......Kalan was born in Wisconsin on a farm.His father Augustus Kalan the Third and mother Winolla were first cousins. At high school he borrowed his fathers jockstrap on prom night and drove there along with his best buddy Earnie Faltmeyer blasting out phil Collins " Easy lover" during continuos circuits of the school carpark to impress the girls. During his early teenage years Kalan became fascinated with male masculinity and following a short Charles atlas course enrolled at the nearest boxing club which was a round trip drive of 90 miles. He would drive every weekday night to the club and was willing to spar anyone no matter their size. Due to the fact he worse thick rimmed spectacles like Adrians in Rocky 1, he often got his face smashed in early on but always came back for more and soon developed a crouching almost sinister style of fighting where he would fight aggressively but his defence was like nino locche..he would sway his body left and right to avoid blows like a fervent dervish....and was not immune to a headbutt or low blow here or there.....the gym was an afro American one and kalans perserverence and will impressed the chief trainer LeMarr Fruckuon who one day took Kalan aside and said "shhit kid....lighten up niggger..Ill help you make it if you help me train and clean up on in this mmotherfucker".........Kalan took to his duties like a duck to water......pretty soon he was 5-0 as an amateur..and would wear a T shirt saying 5-0 on the streets of wisconcin....than one night watching the Sugar Ray leonard-donnie lalonde fight tragedy struck.......... LeMarr Fruckuon suffered a seizure drinking malt beer and died on his sofa......Kalan discovered the body and was crestfallen......his amateur boxingcareer and spitbucket duties were over....the new regime dismissed him as "that crazy white boy with glasses who found LeMarr all ffucked up"....amidst all this uncertainty Kalan attended a George Michael concert in 1989 during the Faith tour and was asked to come backstage by security .Kalan met George and altho he proffesed he was not homosexual to George he explained he was a boxer and collector of music LPS, George was so impressed by Kalans that he pulled some strings and got Kalan a job writing on Rolling Stones magazine in New York.......during this time Kalan took out his anger at the hand fate had dealt him by trashing established rock stars while grouping upcomers like Guns and roses and Metallica in his weekly column which soon built up a cult following....a shock jock radio dj gig also manifested itself......than in 1992 Kalan heard a Harry Connick Jnr LP and immediately came out as gay.....he continued to write music and do a radio phone in in Yonkers New York until he lost his job in the internet age of the early 2000s...the payout was good and his share of a writing credit for Charles and Eddies "would I lie to you" ensures he no longer needs to work......so to fill out his days Kalan reverted back to his first love Boxing........and upon waking up to a breakfast of orange juice,Ham and Eggs he goes to a uptown boxing gym than comes home and prowls boxing forums sharing his lifetimes knowledge of boxing.......and he wears daily a t shirt saying 5-0.....whenever anyone in the gym asks him what it means he just taps his nose with his finger....and walks away with a benign smile on his face.....now 47 Kalan is very content with life and last year proposed to his wife Hermundo

How much time do you have to waste on me?

So what you"re saying is....any time spent on you is a waste?

Any time YOU spend is wasted. You have the comprehension of a slug

[Jip]

Come on kalan. Have some sense of humor. I think he djdnt mean it in a provoking way. People also make fun about me, just remember, if u can laugh about others, u should be able to laugh about yourself. All good.

[Kalan]

Come on kalan. Have some sense of humor. I think he djdnt mean it in a provoking way. People also make fun about me, just remember, if u can laugh about others, u should be able to laugh about yourself. All good.

Hardly ... If an idiot wastes his time writing unreadable jackass carp about me instead of contributing to the debate or discussion... He's a waste of oxygen

[Jip]

Come on kalan. Have some sense of humor. I think he djdnt mean it in a provoking way. People also make fun about me, just remember, if u can laugh about others, u should be able to laugh about yourself. All good.

Hardly ... If an idiot wastes his time writing unreadable jackass carp about me instead of contributing to the debate or discussion... He's a waste of oxygen

U realy dont have much humor do u?

[lazboy]

he wears daily a t shirt saying 5-0.....whenever anyone in the gym asks him what it means he just taps his nose with his finger....and walks away with a benign smile on his face

That is such a Kalan thing to do.

[Kalan]

Come on kalan. Have some sense of humor. I think he djdnt mean it in a provoking way. People also make fun about me, just remember, if u can laugh about others, u should be able to laugh about yourself. All good.

Hardly ... If an idiot wastes his time writing unreadable jackass carp about me instead of contributing to the debate or discussion... He's a waste of oxygen

U realy dont have much humor do u?

I have an outstanding sense of humor.... I laughed my ass off during Foreman-Frazier 1. I felt vindicated and rubbed it in. The rematch was funny to some but sad to me ... Roy Jones-Antonio Tarver 1 was a laugh your ass off KO ... But Roy's next fight with Glen Johnson was gut wrenching. The place was solemn. No humor there. Anybody who laughed was an idiot. Same with the Holmes-Ali fight -- if you laughed at that you've got a problem.

There's a time and a place to laugh -- but I'm not going to laugh at some stupid creep who has the IQ of a carrot, who's trying to make a funny.

[Jip]

Hardly ... If an idiot wastes his time writing unreadable jackass carp about me instead of contributing to the debate or discussion... He's a waste of oxygen

U realy dont have much humor do u?

I have an outstanding sense of humor.... I laughed my ass off during Foreman-Frazier 1. I felt vindicated and rubbed it in. The rematch was funny to some but sad to me ... Roy Jones-Antonio Tarver 1 was a laugh your ass off KO ... But Roy's next fight with Glen Johnson was gut wrenching. The place was solemn. No humor there. Anybody who laughed was an idiot. Same with the Holmes-Ali fight -- if you laughed at that you've got a problem.

There's a time and a place to laugh -- but I'm not going to laugh at some stupid creep who has the IQ of a carrot, who's trying to make a funny.

Do u think he means it in a mean negativ way?

For example i am a nice calm guy, can i makr fun of you, myself etc.?

[gp.]

I both sparred and fought guys who sparred and fought Ali. Also knocked them down and out and wasn't decked myself -- or ever hurt or in trouble on those occasions. I could hit. That's what they all said.

Hang on. Are you making the claim that you fought guys (plural) who fought Ali and knocked them out (in fights)?

Or did you fight multiple guys who fought Ali and only knocked them out in training?

Either way that's going to be quite a short short list of people you are claiming to be. When I have ten minutes I will offer you all the possible people that you might be, and you can tell us which one you are. Or you can just tell us now. Or, you can stop making outrageous claims that you refuse to support.

[Bricks]

....

[verlichte]

.....with sporting advances in modern training techniques, medications and nutrition.

What training techniques are there, specific to boxing, that make modern fighters better than fighters of the 70s? Please list the specific training techniques. There's plenty that are more or less the same.

You can't be suggesting that the average modern heavyweight is a fit and conditioned as his 70s counterpart. Can you imagine Haye/Joshua/Fury et al in the Thriller in Manila?

Why have you asked this question by limiting the answer to only detailing training techniques that are “specific to boxing”, since that would compel me to respond by excluding methods that are employed by all athletes? That’s a very dodgy question to ask, one that only an imbecile would agree to answer on your specific terms!

In regards to “The Thrilla in Manila”, in my mind it is the most overrated boxing match in the history of the sport.

I simply can’t agree to those fans that claim it was the greatest fight of any weight division in the entire history of the sport! And nor do I agree with The Ring’s assertion that it is the “Fight of the Century”.

I sincerely believe that (solely in terms of physical conditioning), Frazier and Ali were both far removed from their respective primes in that fight. I’d even go one step further by claiming that the former was partially-blind and had an arthritic shoulder, whilst the latter was actually quite overweight for that bout.

Simply put: in the context of the ‘The Thrilla in Manila’ (as per your question, whilst using your precise words), I am indeed “suggesting that the average modern heavyweight is as fit and conditioned as his 70s counterpart”.

[verlichte]

What training techniques are there, specific to boxing, that make modern fighters better than fighters of the 70s? Please list the specific training techniques. There's plenty that are more or less the same.

You can't be suggesting that the average modern heavyweight is a fit and conditioned as his 70s counterpart. Can you imagine Haye/Joshua/Fury et al in the Thriller in Manila?

Why have you asked this question by limiting the answer to only detailing training techniques that are “specific to boxing”, since that would compel me to respond by excluding methods that are employed by all athletes? That’s a very dodgy question to ask, one that only an imbecile would agree to answer on your specific terms!

In regards to “The Thrilla in Manila”, in my mind it is the most overrated boxing match in the history of the sport.

I simply can’t agree to those fans that claim it was the greatest fight of any weight division in the entire history of the sport! And nor do I agree with The Ring’s assertion that it is the “Fight of the Century”.

I sincerely believe that (solely in terms of physical conditioning), Frazier and Ali were both far removed from their respective primes in that fight. I’d even go one step further by claiming that the former was partially-blind and had an arthritic shoulder, whilst the latter was actually quite overweight for that bout.

Simply put: in the context of the ‘The Thrilla in Manila’ (as per your question, whilst using your precise words), I am indeed “suggesting that the average modern heavyweight is as fit and conditioned as his 70s counterpart”.

I mentioned "specific boxing" because I think there are two elements to this.

1) boxing skills. The art of pugilism. It was this that I was referring to when I was asking you to describe specific techniques that are used today that were not used in the 70s, and how they make modern fighters better.

2) Fitness. You may well be right that Ali and Frazier were past their primes for the Thriller but you can't dispute the conditioning and work rate that both fighters displayed and the relentless pace of the fight itself. Could super-fit David Haye have maintained that pace, in that heat? Wilder/Fury/Joshua? This is just one example of course but it's still valid as a comparison point.

I was challenging your assertion that modern heavyweights are better because of modern techniques and training methods and using these two points to do so. It seems to me that modern heavyweights are no more skilled and certainly no fitter than fighters of the 70s.

The problem with your questions and assertions relates to the fact that you intentionally presented my thoughts out-of-context by only referring to 10 words from a post that is actually 112 words in length.

The entirety of my paragraph that contained those ten words that you quoted was solely focussed on the physicality of modern heavyweights in comparison to their peers that competed forty years ago, but you attempted to change to subject matter to discussing skill-set instead.

You also had the audacity to ask me to respond to a question that was particularly limited in scope, which was framed in a manner to intentionally compel the answer to exclude pertinent information.

Finally, you have claimed that you are challenging my assertion about “modern heavyweights” being “better” than those that competed forty years ago, partly due to skill, but I have not explicitly made that claim in this thread.

I refuse to take the bait by responding to your questions and false assertions that bear no relation whatsoever to my original claims.

[Tomasino]

I actually did meet John L Sullivan as a grown man... He was a middleweight from the Northwest who fought in the 70's.

BTW... You guys are fools. I let farts that are smarter than mcdonnell and SaadOff

Wilt chamberlains farts would blow you out of the solar system.

Wilts farts are actually the main reason Kalan is so mentally diminished. He inhaled so many of them over the years it's rotted his tiny brain.

[boxing_rocks]

I feel a whole lot dumber after reading what I could stand to read about this thread. Jip should be banned for even bringing up Floyd vs Manny bs.

Everybody who says that Floyd was cherry picking needs to be banned, and the forum needs to be renamed to Floyd's Scene.

[Bricks]

Come on kalan. Have some sense of humor. I think he djdnt mean it in a provoking way. People also make fun about me, just remember, if u can laugh about others, u should be able to laugh about yourself. All good.

Hardly ... If an idiot wastes his time writing unreadable jackass carp about me instead of contributing to the debate or discussion... He's a waste of oxygen

...and what of your many "debates" and "discussions" usually trying to come across as a outside the box genius who knows something the rest of us doesn't.....but instead revealing u are just a worthless troll not even worthy of calling a contrarian as that would imply u had a braincell or sense of irony or wit......no that's far too sophisticated for you Kaley

[Jip]

Come on bricks. Dont be like that to kalan. Even if his a inet warrior or troll. Sometimes the only thing left people have is their fantasy, sad. Therefore nobody should pick on those who have not much. Not saying kalan lives in a fantasy world, just saying it in general. I am a obese sad human being with litle left in my live.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I feel a whole lot dumber after reading what I could stand to read about this thread. Jip should be banned for even bringing up Floyd vs Manny bs.

Everybody who says that Floyd was cherry picking needs to be banned, and the forum needs to be renamed to Floyd's Scene.

He did, like all big stars. But even his cherry picking was pretty impressive.

[Kalan]

The theme of the thread is: Heavyweights today are just as good as they ever were... Anybody who agrees with that message gets attacked by keyboard warriors who couldn't whip their own noodle, and then take the thread off topic.

Foreman fought until he was 50 and during his prime he destroyed top Heavyweights like Ken Norton and Joe Frazier like they were tinker toys... Those same men shattered Muhammad Ali's jaw, blew up his face like a cantaloupe, and put him in a hospital – since Ali never could evade left hooks with any finesse.

If Foreman focused as much on basic boxing skills during his 1st career as Anthony Joshua does today, George would have easily beaten Ali and Young as well. His record after 71 fights was amazing. NO other Heavyweight Champion in Fistic History ever achieved 69-2... Foreman would have gone 71-0 if he learned how to slip jabs and straight rights, roll under punches deftly, score with quick combos, and spent more time mastering footwork, distance, and timing. If George focused on skills and learned how to pink with his jab like Jimmy Young – instead of trying to use his jab like a battering ram – he might have gone unbeaten as a youngster. The fact that he lost 10 years of his career what he accomplished is amazing.

Foreman is a man who knows what he’s talking about. if Foreman says Heavyweights are just as good as ever he’s not speaking with the usual generational bias and partisan American bias that generally comes out of the mouths of old timers. It also means his brain survived better than Ali’s, Frazier’s, or Norton’s.

[Bricks]

The only derailment of this thread has been by kalens man crush of joshua.....which sends his brain into delirium......so he thinks joshua knocks out ali in one round...... your eccentric maverick genius who knows something that others dont schtick is getting tiresome to most of the board...as well as very disrespectful to ali and other greats who deserve to be discussed respectfully.....i think youre worth a lot more than that if u could learn to moderate your way of communicating snd understand this is a forum where other opinions should be respected.im prepared to admit your knowledge is impressive as is your enthusiasm but you shoukd try and get on with people....i was joking about the life story

As for foremans speech

Foreman always says things like this...back in 87-90 when he was on his way back ...every fight ...even after he had knocked them out he would talk of how bigger tougher and rougher the present day hws were...so he had to fight extra hard...itvwas the same in the late 90s even after clearly being robbed by briggs ...he said briggs deserved to win...its just his good ole boy act....

[Bricks]

...

[Bricks]

Fury and wlad are the only hws today who match up well with the top 20 of the past....joshua may get into the top 12 one day but he still has a lot to prove and do hes only getting started but looks the real deal and im impressed greatly by him

I like wilder but he hasnt fought anyone

I actually rate foreman number 2 at hw and have done for years on this board.long before u arrived here i made a thread in botp stating a hybrid of foreman mk 1 and 2 would be the greatest ofcall time at hw

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't think fury would fair well at all.

[montrealsuper]

Floyd is the greatest handpicker / ducker on the history of boxing. No one even comes close.

[Kalan]

FK FLOYD!!! THIS IS ABOUT HEAVYWEIGHTS!!! Not about featherweight hitters like Floyd whose caps are always too big for his head.

[Kalan]

Fury and wlad are the only hws today who match up well with the top 20 of the past....joshua may get into the top 12 one day but he still has a lot to prove and do hes only getting started but looks the real deal and im impressed greatly by him

I like wilder but he hasnt fought anyone

I actually rate foreman number 2 at hw and have done for years on this board.long before u arrived here i made a thread in botp stating a hybrid of foreman mk 1 and 2 would be the greatest ofcall time at hw

You're crazy to rank Foreman at number 2 when he couldn't even beat a feather hitter who weighed 211... Joshua at number 12 someday??? ... AJ has already won more Heavyweight Championship Fights then Foreman won before the age of 45 -- at which time Foreman had a losing streak of 3 going in World Title Fights... And let's be truthful about this -- Foreman didn't do a damned thing to deserve a Title crack at Moorer... He got damned lucky in winning the title back... Then he hid from the top Heavyweights - fighting the worst challengers ever ... Despite all that, I like Foreman a lot for his raw talent. He certainly could have been a lot better Heavyweight if he learned how to box. His destruction of Norton and Frazier were awesome displays of power.

But let's compare him with AJ... Joshua never failed to KO an opponent, many who had never been knocked out before -- Foreman failed to KO Levi Forte, who had a losing record and had been knocked out 12 times before... Foreman couldn't slip or duck punches well -- Joshua slips jabs and straight rights as well as any Heavyweight ever and gets under punches well... Foreman lacked a sophisticated jab that didn't match up well with Ali's and Young's -- Joshua's jab matches up well with anybody who ever defended a World Heavyweight Title... Joshua's boxing skills and overall game have advanced at a record pace -- Foreman's skills were stuck in the mud through his first 47 fights.

As far as Wilder goes, he's fought some decent guys... He fought Malik Scott who was 36-1-1 and a very good boxer... He fought Bermane Stiverne who was 24-1-1 and a good boxer-puncher.. He fought Gerald Washington, a 6'6" X 240 -- a powerful man who was undefeated.. Washington lacks sophistication and skills like Foreman did -- but he's a great big strong guy who's been fighting pro for 5 years -- so his skills should start filling in with a few more fights.

[Bricks]

Your criteria for who is ranked where appears to be numbers, title defences , statistics etc.

My sole criteria unlike most people is..........any given boxer on their absolute best day against any other given boxer on his absolute best day"....with the only provision being this "best day" or days like it .....must have occurred for a reasonable amount of time so as to not be fluke worthy....2 or 3 years is enough.....but 4-5 years or longer is preferable....

George foreman mk one on his best day.....destroys Joshua within 4 rounds demolishes him....based on who and what AJ is now......Foreman was a naturally strong brute like Liston before him........AJ is more a modern day pumped up bodybuilder...wtf a 41 year old WlAd threw him around like a rag doll in round 5 or 6...and put him down with one shot.....dullian shyte....hurt him.....Foreman was a murderous puncher and strong...a killer......you really do go overboard on very little evidence when it comes to Joshua...

The obsession with stats makes u look foolish eg comments like " Joshua has kayoed everyone- Foreman hasn't"....by that token let me say...Kell Brook is better than SRR as kell only lost once and SRL lost 3 times