Kalan wrote:You saw David Tiberi outwork Toney and Montell Griffin outwork Toney... Golovkin beats the Hell out of Toney
You saw Sergei Kovalev easily outjab Hopkins and beat him 120-107 on all scorecards... Golovkin jabs the Hell out of Hopkins
You saw Glen Johnson apply good pressure, beat on Roy Jones for a lot of rounds, and knock him dead... Golovkin knocks Roy stiff
Would this mean that Golovkin would put a beating on Holyfield as well? Or is this a "styles" anomaly in this case?
You had Toney as Holy's forever master in an earlier opining of yours.
I'm not making a Heavyweight out of Golovkin... Toney was a Heavyweight when he was 34... That's when he fought Holyfield at 218.. He didn't spend a long time as Middleweight Champion and ate his way out of the division... He carried a lot of poundage well... Golovkin is already 35 and still a Middleweight and Toney was 60 pounds north of there.. But as a Middleweight GGG beats anybody.
Hey Kalan,
Golovkin possibly due to his style does have defensive weaknesses. He seems to just cover up a lot and move out of range and reset instead of moving his hips and firing back defensively to offensively. Just puts his guard up and covers up when someone puts some hands on him, waits for them to finish then starts his offense. Not saying all the time, but earlier in his career he was equally effective and blended his offense and defense mutually....His brutal knockout style has obviously worked out for him, but he shows way more weaknesses in between his moments of brilliance. Don't you think a skilled, physical fighter with a good chin and gutsy style could technically have a chance of beating him? If Jacobs was a little slicker, maybe he gets decision? James Toney was more slick and had a better chin then Jacobs. True he was shorter, but would you really take Danny Jacobs over a prime Roy, Toney, and Mike Mccallum at 160? If Jacobs can avoid the KO punches, maybe others could as well and offer some gears and chin resistance?
Kalan Who are the top 3 all time middleweight challengers for GGG in your opinion?
I've already pointed out using examples how wrong you are, why bother embarrassing you further? I'm sure over time you will do a grand job yourself.
You pointed nothing out. That's the problem. Substance-less nonsense.
I asked you which version of Toney at 160lbs and you ignored the question. You are also coming across as a little arsehole, so it's difficult to be bothered debating with you.
Are you female by any chance?
Last edited by Tomasino on 29 May 2017, 07:42, edited 1 time in total.
I've already pointed out using examples how wrong you are, why bother embarrassing you further? I'm sure over time you will do a grand job yourself.
You pointed nothing out. That's the problem. Substance-less nonsense.
I asked you which version of Toney at 160lbs and you ignored the question. You are also coming across as a little arsehole, so it's difficult to be bothered debating with you.
walshb wrote:
You pointed nothing out. That's the problem. Substance-less nonsense.
I asked you which version of Toney at 160lbs and you ignored the question. You are also coming across as a little arsehole, so it's difficult to be bothered debating with you.
Would this mean that Golovkin would put a beating on Holyfield as well? Or is this a "styles" anomaly in this case?
You had Toney as Holy's forever master in an earlier opining of yours.
I'm not making a Heavyweight out of Golovkin... Toney was a Heavyweight when he was 34... That's when he fought Holyfield at 218.. He didn't spend a long time as Middleweight Champion and ate his way out of the division... He carried a lot of poundage well... Golovkin is already 35 and still a Middleweight and Toney was 60 pounds north of there.. But as a Middleweight GGG beats anybody.
Hey Kalan,
Golovkin possibly due to his style does have defensive weaknesses. He seems to just cover up a lot and move out of range and reset instead of moving his hips and firing back defensively to offensively. Just puts his guard up and covers up when someone puts some hands on him, waits for them to finish then starts his offense. Not saying all the time, but earlier in his career he was equally effective and blended his offense and defense mutually....His brutal knockout style has obviously worked out for him, but he shows way more weaknesses in between his moments of brilliance. Don't you think a skilled, physical fighter with a good chin and gutsy style could technically have a chance of beating him? If Jacobs was a little slicker, maybe he gets decision? James Toney was more slick and had a better chin
nikos6 wrote:
Kalan wrote:
I'm not making a Heavyweight out of Golovkin... Toney was a Heavyweight when he was 34... That's when he fought Holyfield at 218.. He didn't spend a long time as Middleweight Champion and ate his way out of the division... He carried a lot of poundage well... Golovkin is already 35 and still a Middleweight and Toney was 60 pounds north of there.. But as a Middleweight GGG beats anybody.
Hey Kalan,
Golovkin possibly due to his style does have defensive weaknesses. He seems to just cover up a lot and move out of range and reset instead of moving his hips and firing back defensively to offensively. Just puts his guard up and covers up when someone puts some hands on him, waits for them to finish then starts his offense. Not saying all the time, but earlier in his career he was equally effective and blended his offense and defense mutually....His brutal knockout style has obviously worked out for him, but he shows way more weaknesses in between his moments of brilliance. Don't you think a skilled, physical fighter with a good chin and gutsy style could technically have a chance of beating him? If Jacobs was a little slicker, maybe he gets decision? James Toney was more slick and had a better chin then Jacobs. True he was shorter, but would you really take Danny Jacobs over a prime Roy, Toney, and Mike Mccallum at 160? If Jacobs can avoid the KO punches, maybe others could as well and offer some gears and chin resistance?
Kalan Who are the top 3 all time middleweight challengers for GGG in your opinion?
GGG slips punches very well. He's got the best jab of any Middleweight Champion including Jacobs who he out-jabbed by a ton. The thing about your comments is Jacobs would trash David Tiberi and Montel Griffin on the best day they ever saw. Toney wasn't looking very slick against those 2.
Of course I would take Jacobs over a prime Jones and McCallum at 160. Roy would get out-jabbed and left handed out Jacob's southpaw stance --
like De Valle knocked Roy down and Tarver smashed Roy flat.. McCallum would get out-punched over 12, but he had a tough style to deal with. I don't see holes in Golovkin's game like you do. Jacobs had a huge weight advantage over him and I don't think Triple-G was right for that fight. He looked a little under the weather before his last couple fights. Hopefully we see the old Triple-G back for Canelo.
His 3 toughest challengers would have been Carlos Monzon.. Harry Greb.. and Mickey Walker.
Wow, you hold Jacobs in that high of a regard? You must think Dmitry Pirog was one of the most talented MW's of all time? What other skills does Jacob have besides a southpaw jab and size? You don't think Roy Jones was quicker and more powerful than Pirog?
I mean just watch Golovkin 2006-2010 how well he defended, moved his head etc...while still showing great offense seamlessly. Against Ouma he got hit a lot...do you really think everytime he has a mediocre performance that its because hes "sick"?
Check out this link article as a small example....
Pirog was never beaten... Jacobs fought him many years ago... Jacobs is 3 X the fighter now that he was then
Everybody gets hit... You can take select clips and make anybody look good or bad... This is what they do to hype a fighter...show his highlights.
What do they do when they want to trash a boxer??? Show his lowlights.
Sugar Ray Robinson was knocked down by Artie Levine... by Rocky Graziano... by Tommy Bell... and by Jake LaMotta... Ralph Jones came off 5 straight losses to beat Robinson all over the ring for 10 rounds and scored a massive upset win over him... So if you wanted to trash SRR you'd show all that.
Was Golovkin every knocked down or beaten??? ... No he wasn't.
nikos6 wrote:Wow, you hold Jacobs in that high of a regard? You must think Dmitry Pirog was one of the most talented MW's of all time? What other skills does Jacob have besides a southpaw jab and size? You don't think Roy Jones was quicker and more powerful than Pirog?
I mean just watch Golovkin 2006-2010 how well he defended, moved his head etc...while still showing great offense seamlessly. Against Ouma he got hit a lot...do you really think everytime he has a mediocre performance that its because hes "sick"?
Check out this link article as a small example....
When Golovkin knocked Kassim Ouma out that was the 1st time in over 11 years that Ouma was knocked out... No one else ever stopped prime Ouma.
Golovkin jabbed Lemieux to death.. battered Curtis Stevens to death.. Chased Willie Monroe down and stopped him, the first boxer to do that.. Was the first boxer to stop Ishida and smashed him into Intensive Care.. Was the first fighter to stop Murray, Geale, or Proksa... This will be his 20th straight win in a World Middleweight Title Fight.. That has never been achieved before by an undefeated boxer.. He's a master boxer and great puncher.
Kalan wrote:When Golovkin knocked Kassim Ouma out that was the 1st time in over 11 years that Ouma was knocked out... No one else ever stopped prime Ouma.
Golovkin jabbed Lemieux to death.. battered Curtis Stevens to death.. Chased Willie Monroe down and stopped him, the first boxer to do that.. Was the first boxer to stop Ishida and smashed him into Intensive Care.. Was the first fighter to stop Murray, Geale, or Proksa... This will be his 20th straight win in a World Middleweight Title Fight.. That has never been achieved before by an undefeated boxer.. He's a master boxer and great puncher.
If GGG beats Canelo, (and probably he will), he could be considered one of ATG 100 pound per boxers ever.
Yeah??? Well...how many World Title Defenses did Sugar Ray Robinson lose??? 3, not an impressive number ... How many did he win? 8, also not that impressive.
Maybe Robinson was simply beaten by the greatest boxers of all time -- such as Gene Fullmer... Fullmer went 26 straight fights in his prime without scoring a single KO -- which included his fist victory over Robinson and quite a few fights before and after that...
Now, GGG has won 18 straight World Title Defenses without a loss.. When Fullmer challenged Robinson his record was 37-3.. Eight of his opponents were either making their pro debut or they had never won a single fight.. Fullmer was not only a weak hitter, he didn't box or defend very well.. Canelo is bigger and taller than Fullmer and his record is 49-1-1.. Ten of those wins came in World Title Fights... His only loss was at age 23 -- to the guy who this website considers the single greatest boxer of all time... Everybody knows Canelo can box and punch very well -- unlike a few of the guys who beat Sugar Ray Robinson.
Golovkin is vastly over rated. He's a bit like the Wladimir Klitschko of the middle weight division.
He's a good hard hitting middle weight who has dominated in a poor era, much like Klitschko.
Any thoughts that he would beat prime Jones, Hopkins or Toney easily are pretty misguided. He'd give them a hard fight on his best nights but if he fought them 100 times they would win many more times than he would.
Kalan wrote:Yeah??? Well...how many World Title Defenses did Sugar Ray Robinson lose??? 3, not an impressive number ... How many did he win? 8, also not that impressive.
Maybe Robinson was simply beaten by the greatest boxers of all time -- such as Gene Fullmer... Fullmer went 26 straight fights in his prime without scoring a single KO -- which included his fist victory over Robinson and quite a few fights before and after that...
Now, GGG has won 18 straight World Title Defenses without a loss.. When Fullmer challenged Robinson his record was 37-3.. Eight of his opponents were either making their pro debut or they had never won a single fight.. Fullmer was not only a weak hitter, he didn't box or defend very well.. Canelo is bigger and taller than Fullmer and his record is 49-1-1.. Ten of those wins came in World Title Fights... His only loss was at age 23 -- to the guy who this website considers the single greatest boxer of all time... Everybody knows Canelo can box and punch very well -- unlike a few of the guys who beat Sugar Ray Robinson.
The Sugar Ray Robinson bashing is obvious trolling.
Robinson was a natural welterweight who was practically unbeatable at his natural weight. He campaigned at middleweight later in his career and had a pretty respectable record against the best middleweights around at the time. Robinson was post peak in his middleweight years.
If you want to compare Golovkin and Robinson the equivalent would be Golovkin stepping up to light heavyweight late career. Good as he is I don't fancy his chances much against Kolorev, Stephenson or Ward. In fact I don't think he'd have it his own way against the top super middleweights let alone the light heavies.
Kalan believes what he is saying...that's my take. And their is a popular opinion that he uses pretzel logic.....but he's just another contributor, and not a troll.
Though he throws barbs and isn't the happiest camper.....he does appear to buy and use his own fertilizer.
Kalan wrote:Yeah??? Well...how many World Title Defenses did Sugar Ray Robinson lose??? 3, not an impressive number ... How many did he win? 8, also not that impressive.
Maybe Robinson was simply beaten by the greatest boxers of all time -- such as Gene Fullmer... Fullmer went 26 straight fights in his prime without scoring a single KO -- which included his fist victory over Robinson and quite a few fights before and after that...
Now, GGG has won 18 straight World Title Defenses without a loss.. When Fullmer challenged Robinson his record was 37-3.. Eight of his opponents were either making their pro debut or they had never won a single fight.. Fullmer was not only a weak hitter, he didn't box or defend very well.. Canelo is bigger and taller than Fullmer and his record is 49-1-1.. Ten of those wins came in World Title Fights... His only loss was at age 23 -- to the guy who this website considers the single greatest boxer of all time... Everybody knows Canelo can box and punch very well -- unlike a few of the guys who beat Sugar Ray Robinson.
The Sugar Ray Robinson bashing is obvious trolling.
Robinson was a natural welterweight who was practically unbeatable at his natural weight. He campaigned at middleweight later in his career and had a pretty respectable record against the best middleweights around at the time. Robinson was post peak in his middleweight years.
If you want to compare Golovkin and Robinson the equivalent would be Golovkin stepping up to light heavyweight late career. Good as he is I don't fancy his chances much against Kolorev, Stephenson or Ward. In fact I don't think he'd have it his own way against the top super middleweights let alone the light heavies.
Quit worshiping at the SRR altar and look at facts.. Robinson's record in Welterweight Title Defenses was 5-0... Felix Trinidad's was 15-0.. None of Sugar Ray's challenger's were undefeated.. none could punch real hard.. and none were excellent boxers.. Robinson lost to some of the slowest plodders, weakest hitters and most inept swingers to ever hold the Middleweight Title. He also picked on a much smaller guy (a short Welterweight) when he was Middleweight Champion.. He lost that Title Defense as well.. Golovkin is 18-0 in Middleweight Title Defenses.. That's more than twice the number of successful Title Defenses Robinson ever accomplished in 2 divisions.
Then there's the spectacle of Robinson getting knocked down by Artie Levine... Tommy Bell... Rocky Graziano... and twice by punching bag Jake LaMotta... Do you know how often Gennady Golovkin has been knocked down in 387 amateur and professional fights???? ... Correct lad.. He was never knocked down.
Golovkin is already 35 and he's a small Middleweight... But when he gets to Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight he may continue to win all his fights... You can't start piling losses on GGG before he gets there... We know that SRR got his ass kicked at Middleweight and got stopped at LHW
As always, they'll wither dead away like mist overcome by a rising sun
Your poetic hypocrisy hath never shone with more explicit re-versified luminescence.
Now....for topics sake, it is your high minded opinion that GGG beats James Toney,Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones at MW......and I believe you also publicly postulate that he would persevere over Robinson, and endure beyond Monzon.
Kalan believes what he is saying...that's my take. And their is a popular opinion that he uses pretzel logic.....but he's just another contributor, and not a troll.
Though he throws barbs and isn't the happiest camper.....he does appear to buy and use his own fertilizer.
Kalan wrote:Yeah??? Well...how many World Title Defenses did Sugar Ray Robinson lose??? 3, not an impressive number ... How many did he win? 8, also not that impressive.
Maybe Robinson was simply beaten by the greatest boxers of all time -- such as Gene Fullmer... Fullmer went 26 straight fights in his prime without scoring a single KO -- which included his fist victory over Robinson and quite a few fights before and after that...
Now, GGG has won 18 straight World Title Defenses without a loss.. When Fullmer challenged Robinson his record was 37-3.. Eight of his opponents were either making their pro debut or they had never won a single fight.. Fullmer was not only a weak hitter, he didn't box or defend very well.. Canelo is bigger and taller than Fullmer and his record is 49-1-1.. Ten of those wins came in World Title Fights... His only loss was at age 23 -- to the guy who this website considers the single greatest boxer of all time... Everybody knows Canelo can box and punch very well -- unlike a few of the guys who beat Sugar Ray Robinson.
The Sugar Ray Robinson bashing is obvious trolling.
Robinson was a natural welterweight who was practically unbeatable at his natural weight. He campaigned at middleweight later in his career and had a pretty respectable record against the best middleweights around at the time. Robinson was post peak in his middleweight years.
If you want to compare Golovkin and Robinson the equivalent would be Golovkin stepping up to light heavyweight late career. Good as he is I don't fancy his chances much against Kolorev, Stephenson or Ward. In fact I don't think he'd have it his own way against the top super middleweights let alone the light heavies.
Quit worshiping at the SRR altar and look at facts.. Robinson's record in Welterweight Title Defenses was 5-0... Felix Trinidad's was 15-0.. None of Sugar Ray's challenger's were undefeated.. none could punch real hard.. and none were excellent boxers.. Robinson lost to some of the slowest plodders, weakest hitters and most inept swingers to ever hold the Middleweight Title. He also picked on a much smaller guy (a short Welterweight) when he was Middleweight Champion.. He lost that Title Defense as well.. Golovkin is 18-0 in Middleweight Title Defenses.. That's more than twice the number of successful Title Defenses Robinson ever accomplished in 2 divisions.
Then there's the spectacle of Robinson getting knocked down by Artie Levine... Tommy Bell... Rocky Graziano... and twice by punching bag Jake LaMotta... Do you know how often Gennady Golovkin has been knocked down in 387 amateur and professional fights???? ... Correct lad.. He was never knocked down.
Golovkin is already 35 and he's a small Middleweight... But when he gets to Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight he may continue to win all his fights... You can't start piling losses on GGG before he gets there... We know that SRR got his ass kicked at Middleweight and got stopped at LHW
That's selective and ambiguous. Back then there was a culture of many non title fights between defences which wouldn't happen now. He fought numerous non title fights during that period. They are the equivalent of non mandatory defences nowadays.
