Putting The Boot In

[Finn]

pathetic anyone questioning the bravery of Kell Brook, he's just taken on two of the best P4P fighters in boxing, back to back, and suffered broken bones in each eye in both fights.
If you don't think that's brave, just check out Adonis Stevenson defending his "title" this weekend.

No he hasnt he's fought one top P4P fighter in a farce of a match up, and one prospect. It took him 33 fights to challenge for the title even though he had been mandatory for 3 years, he then defended the title against 1 credible opponent and lost it. Sorry thats not a champion - a champion is someone like Spence Jr who beats everyone on the way up - Algeri, Bundu, gets a title shot in someone elses back yard in his 22nd fight, comes from behind to win the fight and challenges the the other world title holders.

Kel Brook has been lazy or gutless through his whole career - you can try and compare him to adonis stevenson but you might want to remember that hes only had 29 fights and in those fights he's beaten Dawson, Cloud, Bellew and Bika and won his world title in his 22nd fight and they still label him "adonis chickenson" so we all consider him a ducker what can we say about a guy who took 33 fights before he stepped up then 3 absolute jokes of a defence before jumping out of the division to lose then return to quit against a prospect. The only thing you can say is he is a quality fighter but hasnt got the minerals to be a great - he hasnt got the heart for it plain and simple and he has never been hungry.

Wrong, on the basis of Saturdays fight Spence is clearly one of the best fighters in the sport. Chin, heart, guts, skill, speed, punch, he's got it all.

yeah he looks quality but he was behind on the cards going into the 8th round, that by no means signals he would beat thurman or garcia.

[CaptainSpacerod]

thats not the case at all, why cant i be a fan of both? Or are you saying the khan v canelo fight didnt prompt Brook to fight GGG?

Sorry if I misread you.

I think Brook fought him purely because GGG needed an opponent after Eubank pulled out and the money was too good to turn down.

[Supremo]

They're usually about their arm snapped at the time!

Aye cause a broken eye socket is just a minor inconvenience compared to a broken arm..

[Finn]

thats not the case at all, why cant i be a fan of both? Or are you saying the khan v canelo fight didnt prompt Brook to fight GGG?

Sorry if I misread you.

I think Brook fought him purely because GGG needed an opponent after Eubank pulled out and the money was too good to turn down.

It was but brook had also asked hearn to get him golovkin as soon as the khan fight fell through and they found out he was moving up a weight to fight canelo. thats why the fight was offered to him after eubank didnt sign on time.

Im not a fan of quiting in the ring, unless you are at the end of your career and you are being humiliated or its a substantial injury. Im not convinced the injury was that bad - like i said at no point was the doctor even consulted, they didnt even get the endswell out.

[Supremo]

Fighting with an Achilles injury like David haye is sore- but how bad is it going to get? You're not going to think you'll never walk again because you've a sore leg- you're also not going to get a man punching it to make it worse.

Fighting with a broken eye socket would make anyone think that they may not only be risking their eye sight but their life.

I broke my nose in a fight and when I sat in the corner I tried to blow blood out my nose and a big bubble of blood came out my eye. The change in pressure in my eye was horrendous and made me think something was seriously wrong. It was genuinely frightening.

I was going to go back out and fight but the ref waved it off. I don't know how long I'd have lasted if I'd got hit on it again. When you start worrying about your eye sight- quite legitimately then your health and survival becomes priority not winning the fight.

Kell brook wouldn't just have had a sore eye and didn't fancy being hit again like a child wanting to avoid being smacked. He would have been experiencing a unique sensation that few folk ever experience that something is drastically wrong and his life could be in danger.

I've no time for quitters like Spike O'Sullivan or Dirrell but Brook was totally justified.

[Counter-puncher]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

[Counter-puncher]

I broke my nose in a fight and when I sat in the corner I tried to blow blood out my nose and a big bubble of blood came out my eye. The change in pressure in my eye was horrendous and made me think something was seriously wrong. It was genuinely frightening.
.

By the way, great detail, must have been frightening as you say

[Finn]

Fighting with an Achilles injury like David haye is sore- but how bad is it going to get? You're not going to think you'll never walk again because you've a sore leg- you're also not going to get a man punching it to make it worse.

Fighting with a broken eye socket would make anyone think that they may not only be risking their eye sight but their life.

I broke my nose in a fight and when I sat in the corner I tried to blow blood out my nose and a big bubble of blood came out my eye. The change in pressure in my eye was horrendous and made me think something was seriously wrong. It was genuinely frightening.

I was going to go back out and fight but the ref waved it off. I don't know how long I'd have lasted if I'd got hit on it again. When you start worrying about your eye sight- quite legitimately then your health and survival becomes priority not winning the fight.

Kell brook wouldn't just have had a sore eye and didn't fancy being hit again like a child wanting to avoid being smacked. He would have been experiencing a unique sensation that few folk ever experience that something is drastically wrong and his life could be in danger.

I've no time for quitters like Spike O'Sullivan or Dirrell but Brook was totally justified.

its a fair point well made.

[Boxerbeetle]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

There's 2 types of 'quitting' for me. There's quitting when you have fought life & death and are risking serious injury in continuing (Brook / Matthyse /Frazier etc), and then there's quitting when you just don't fancy it anymore (Duran / Dirrell / Walters / Ortiz etc).

It is staggering that some people don't see the difference.

[Finn]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

There's 2 types of 'quitting' for me. There's quitting when you have fought life & death and are risking serious injury in continuing (Brook / Matthyse /Frazier etc), and then there's quitting when you just don't fancy it anymore (Duran / Dirrell / Walters / Ortiz etc).

It is staggering that some people don't see the difference.

there is absolutely a difference im just not convinced that brooks injury fell into that category, if he was concerned why didnt he get the doctor to look at it?

[Boxerbeetle]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

There's 2 types of 'quitting' for me. There's quitting when you have fought life & death and are risking serious injury in continuing (Brook / Matthyse /Frazier etc), and then there's quitting when you just don't fancy it anymore (Duran / Dirrell / Walters / Ortiz etc).

It is staggering that some people don't see the difference.

there is absolutely a difference im just not convinced that brooks injury fell into that category, if he was concerned why didnt he get the doctor to look at it?

Well as Brook had suffered exactly the same injury in his previous fight, you'd imagine he'd know if it had happened again or not. And it's been confirmed that his eye socket was broken, so I don't know how much more convincing you need.

[Counter-puncher]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

There's 2 types of 'quitting' for me. There's quitting when you have fought life & death and are risking serious injury in continuing (Brook / Matthyse /Frazier etc), and then there's quitting when you just don't fancy it anymore (Duran / Dirrell / Walters / Ortiz etc).

It is staggering that some people don't see the difference.

there is absolutely a difference im just not convinced that brooks injury fell into that category, if he was concerned why didnt he get the doctor to look at it?

Good god

[Supremo]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

Cheers. Was hesitant to post the story incase I was judged as a pussy like Brook. I was willing to fight on and never quit but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't relieved when the ref/doctor made the decision for me.

[Supremo]

Good post, thanks, I look at the criticisms of Brook and that's what makes me wonder, it's like people are saying he 'did a Direll' and to me the situation isn't remotely comparable to a Dirrell

There's 2 types of 'quitting' for me. There's quitting when you have fought life & death and are risking serious injury in continuing (Brook / Matthyse /Frazier etc), and then there's quitting when you just don't fancy it anymore (Duran / Dirrell / Walters / Ortiz etc).

It is staggering that some people don't see the difference.

Exactly.

[boxingknockout]

Brook did 'quit' when I believe plenty might have carried on. I have been in amateur sparring sessions and seen guys with injuries as bad desperate to go on (stopped from doing so, but wanted to.)

Brook's body language after the fight was very interesting - if the injury was that painful he wouldn't t be hanging around for an interview nor shadowboxing to his corner (also done back in the dressing room) trying to explain what happened.

I think the reality was that the injury was clearly bothering him, but also he had run out of gas and knew he couldn't win.

So - I don't condemn him for quitting; there was almost no way he could win and he was completely knackered and had the fight beaten out of him.

I thought Brook was ahead before the 7th round. Then he picked up the injury but also seemed to gas at the same time. In the corner his whole demeanour seemed to change. After that you could see the fight slipping away.

I think Kell was doing really well and was well on the way to victory before the 7th.

All in all - no real problem with pulling himself out, but let's not pretend he's a Jake Lamotta or a Jorge Castro. I do believe he could've gone the distance, even though he was going to lose.

PS I'm also not sure Spencer (c) Carl Froch) is that special, very good but on that performance no P4P yet.... I think Kell was winning clearly until 7th and then gassed so Errol took over...

[Jackson328]

The shadow boxing after the fight is simply warming down and there was no reason for him not to give interviews being as he was not getting punched on his fractured eye socket any more. He was then probably much calmer as he's been through the same scenario a few months ago. I do think the previous injury was on his mind and if it hadn't have been for that he may have tried to get to the final bell against Spence as he wouldn't have had any real idea how serious it was. The fact he also had blurred/double vision makes it even more of a sensible decision, adrenaline in the early stages of combat can make it seem easier to fight through the pain barrier but when you are tired and on the verge of a defeat it isn't nearly as potent.

[Ned Stark]

Oh really so why don't you name some fighters who have pulled themselves out of a fight?

Here's a list for you:

Michael Watson
Paul Ingle
Nick Blackwell
Gerald Mclellan
And many more

Bet they wish they took a knee. I feel bad for using those guys to make a point but the fact that some blokes watching got their money's worth and saw a person got out on his shield will be little consolation for what they've suffered.

Did you not see George Groves post fight interview. Lad just won a world title and his heads in bits from the Gutknecht fight

What a load of non sense you've named fighters who have had career ending brain damage not ones who have carried on with injuries. So what point are you trying to make? Being punched in the head can cause brain damage? What has that list of people got to do with a fighter carrying on with an injury?

What point am I making? That Brook didn't want to join that list!

[Ned Stark]

thats not the case at all, why cant i be a fan of both? Or are you saying the khan v canelo fight didnt prompt Brook to fight GGG?

Sorry if I misread you.

I think Brook fought him purely because GGG needed an opponent after Eubank pulled out and the money was too good to turn down.

It was but brook had also asked hearn to get him golovkin as soon as the khan fight fell through and they found out he was moving up a weight to fight canelo. thats why the fight was offered to him after eubank didnt sign on time.

Im not a fan of quiting in the ring, unless you are at the end of your career and you are being humiliated or its a substantial injury. Im not convinced the injury was that bad - like i said at no point was the doctor even consulted, they didnt even get the endswell out.

He had a substantial injury. He has a team in his corner, they should have pulled him and or got the doctor involved.

[Finn]

Sorry if I misread you.

I think Brook fought him purely because GGG needed an opponent after Eubank pulled out and the money was too good to turn down.

It was but brook had also asked hearn to get him golovkin as soon as the khan fight fell through and they found out he was moving up a weight to fight canelo. thats why the fight was offered to him after eubank didnt sign on time.

Im not a fan of quiting in the ring, unless you are at the end of your career and you are being humiliated or its a substantial injury. Im not convinced the injury was that bad - like i said at no point was the doctor even consulted, they didnt even get the endswell out.

He had a substantial injury. He has a team in his corner, they should have pulled him and or got the doctor involved.

Very true but he did complain that his corner pulled him out in the GGG fight. There's no excuse for the doctor being consulted for all brook knew at the time the doctor could have looked at it and said it wasn't broken, but I think he would have still retired himself.

[Ned Stark]

pathetic anyone questioning the bravery of Kell Brook, he's just taken on two of the best P4P fighters in boxing, back to back, and suffered broken bones in each eye in both fights.
If you don't think that's brave, just check out Adonis Stevenson defending his "title" this weekend.

No he hasnt he's fought one top P4P fighter in a farce of a match up, and one prospect. It took him 33 fights to challenge for the title even though he had been mandatory for 3 years, he then defended the title against 1 credible opponent and lost it. Sorry thats not a champion - a champion is someone like Spence Jr who beats everyone on the way up - Algeri, Bundu, gets a title shot in someone elses back yard in his 22nd fight, comes from behind to win the fight and challenges the the other world title holders.

Kel Brook has been lazy or gutless through his whole career - you can try and compare him to adonis stevenson but you might want to remember that hes only had 29 fights and in those fights he's beaten Dawson, Cloud, Bellew and Bika and won his world title in his 22nd fight and they still label him "adonis chickenson" so we all consider him a ducker what can we say about a guy who took 33 fights before he stepped up then 3 absolute jokes of a defence before jumping out of the division to lose then return to quit against a prospect. The only thing you can say is he is a quality fighter but hasnt got the minerals to be a great - he hasnt got the heart for it plain and simple and he has never been hungry.

Sounds like you've simply got it in for Brook and can't offer an impartial opinion. Brook won his belt by beating Porter in the US, that made him a genuine champion. He has had a frustrating career for many reasons, one of them isn't his lack of guts or minerals and he showed both by fighting GGG. He'd have fought Khan too if Khan would have been up for it.

[Ned Stark]

It was but brook had also asked hearn to get him golovkin as soon as the khan fight fell through and they found out he was moving up a weight to fight canelo. thats why the fight was offered to him after eubank didnt sign on time.

Im not a fan of quiting in the ring, unless you are at the end of your career and you are being humiliated or its a substantial injury. Im not convinced the injury was that bad - like i said at no point was the doctor even consulted, they didnt even get the endswell out.

He had a substantial injury. He has a team in his corner, they should have pulled him and or got the doctor involved.

Very true but he did complain that his corner pulled him out in the GGG fight. There's no excuse for the doctor being consulted for all brook knew at the time the doctor could have looked at it and said it wasn't broken, but I think he would have still retired himself.

Not 100% sure I know what you mean? I don't want to criticise his corner too much, they have big calls to make and if they pulled Kell then that's that, belt gone, different to the GGG fight, as brave as it was for Brook to face him, to lose wasn't a big deal, it's what everyone expected

[Finn]

pathetic anyone questioning the bravery of Kell Brook, he's just taken on two of the best P4P fighters in boxing, back to back, and suffered broken bones in each eye in both fights.
If you don't think that's brave, just check out Adonis Stevenson defending his "title" this weekend.

No he hasnt he's fought one top P4P fighter in a farce of a match up, and one prospect. It took him 33 fights to challenge for the title even though he had been mandatory for 3 years, he then defended the title against 1 credible opponent and lost it. Sorry thats not a champion - a champion is someone like Spence Jr who beats everyone on the way up - Algeri, Bundu, gets a title shot in someone elses back yard in his 22nd fight, comes from behind to win the fight and challenges the the other world title holders.

Kel Brook has been lazy or gutless through his whole career - you can try and compare him to adonis stevenson but you might want to remember that hes only had 29 fights and in those fights he's beaten Dawson, Cloud, Bellew and Bika and won his world title in his 22nd fight and they still label him "adonis chickenson" so we all consider him a ducker what can we say about a guy who took 33 fights before he stepped up then 3 absolute jokes of a defence before jumping out of the division to lose then return to quit against a prospect. The only thing you can say is he is a quality fighter but hasnt got the minerals to be a great - he hasnt got the heart for it plain and simple and he has never been hungry.

Sounds like you've simply got it in for Brook and can't offer an impartial opinion. Brook won his belt by beating Porter in the US, that made him a genuine champion. He has had a frustrating career for many reasons, one of them isn't his lack of guts or minerals and he showed both by fighting GGG. He'd have fought Khan too if Khan would have been up for it.

Well with all due respect that assumption is just plain wrong. Like I said I don't think it took guts to fight GGG because he had already seen by Khan losing to canelo that he would gain respect for simply having a go and his belt wasn't on the line. He took a payday Imo, if he hadn't of been injured a withdrawal would have likely been on the cards from the start as soon as he started taking punishment regardless. It was a silly farce of a fight.

Brook took far too long to do anything of note in his career, yes he won a genuine world title and certainly couldn't be considered a paper champion but in the same note he didn't do anything while he was a champion either, apart from spence his defences were a joke, even if some were mandatory. What's the rest of career going to be like if he carries on? Liam smith? A number of other Fringe fighters or low ranked light middles then a cash out against someone like the Charlos?

[Ned Stark]

Well with all due respect that assumption is just plain wrong. Like I said I don't think it took guts to fight GGG because he had already seen by Khan losing to canelo that he would gain respect for simply having a go and his belt wasn't on the line. He took a payday Imo, if he hadn't of been injured a withdrawal would have likely been on the cards from the start as soon as he started taking punishment regardless. It was a silly farce of a fight.

Brook took far too long to do anything of note in his career, yes he won a genuine world title and certainly couldn't be considered a paper champion but in the same note he didn't do anything while he was a champion either, apart from spence his defences were a joke, even if some were mandatory. What's the rest of career going to be like if he carries on? Liam smith? A number of other Fringe fighters or low ranked light middles then a cash out against someone like the Charlos?

Describing Brook - GGG as a farce, well maybe, I can see anyone's viewpoint who thinks that. But I do still think Brook was brave getting in the ring. In terms of reputation he had nothing to lose but GGG is bigger and dangerous. Even for big money and with little risk to his rep there was huge physical risk. [/quote]

And I also agree Brook took too long to get progress his career. I don't think that was due to Kelly's unwillingness to fight good competition, it's more down to boxing politics and management. After beating Porter it would have been good for better fights but him getting stabbed didn't help.

We're kind of going off track, I take issue with the criticism he's getting for taking a knee. I think he had a real go in the 10th round while almost being beaten. You and others seem to think he should have carried on, I don't. There were multiple factors for him stopping, one major one being the damaged eye. Given the situation in the fight and previous injuries I think it's unfair to criticise him, I think he was sensible and had already shown bravery and guts in that fight. I don't like to see career ending injuries in a boxing fight. That's not what I watch for.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I argued with almost the whole maxboxing board in defense of Ortiz after the maidana fight.

[Bricks]

Fighting with an Achilles injury like David haye is sore- but how bad is it going to get? You're not going to think you'll never walk again because you've a sore leg- you're also not going to get a man punching it to make it worse.

Fighting with a broken eye socket would make anyone think that they may not only be risking their eye sight but their life.

I broke my nose in a fight and when I sat in the corner I tried to blow blood out my nose and a big bubble of blood came out my eye. The change in pressure in my eye was horrendous and made me think something was seriously wrong. It was genuinely frightening.

I was going to go back out and fight but the ref waved it off. I don't know how long I'd have lasted if I'd got hit on it again. When you start worrying about your eye sight- quite legitimately then your health and survival becomes priority not winning the fight.

Kell brook wouldn't just have had a sore eye and didn't fancy being hit again like a child wanting to avoid being smacked. He would have been experiencing a unique sensation that few folk ever experience that something is drastically wrong and his life could be in danger.

I've no time for quitters like Spike O'Sullivan or Dirrell but Brook was totally justified.

Brilliant post....the first time i got cut as an amateur back when i was 16 it was a bad one,when the blood blinded my right eye in a instant and all i could see was orange,it felt like something was wrong ...eye injuries are tgecworst