Sonny Liston V Jerry Quarry 1970

[KOJOE90]

Apparently there was talk of this match-up after Listons win over Wepner but obviously Listons died shortly afer his last fight.

Liston was at this point an old but still very dangerous fighter, whereas Quarry was much younger and I would assume much hungrier fighter with just two points loses to slick boxers Machen and Ellis and a brave but arguably tacticaly missjudged stoppage lose to a peak Frazier.

I see Jerry being the gaint killer in this one taking a hard fought point verdict.

Do you agree fight fans.

[KOJOE90]

Bump.

[perrycarter]

Wepner was a bum and that was all that we could base Liston off of at that point in his career. Similar situation to Tyson how we can only base him off of a win over Ettienne now.

Quarry would handle the old Liston unless he gets careless and caught with a huge punch.

[KOJOE90]

Wepner was a bum and that was all that we could base Liston off of at that point in his career. Similar situation to Tyson how we can only base him off of a win over Ettienne now.

Quarry would handle the old Liston unless he gets careless and caught with a huge punch.

I take your point, but I think calling Wepner a Bum is a bit strong, I believe he was a usefull Amatuer before punching for pay. At worst he was a very tough but limited fighter (in world terms).

[6 Pack]

Wepner was no bum.

Liston was at the end. But I have a hard time picturing him loose to Quarry. But if Leotis Martin could KO him...still he was Sonny Liston.

I'll go with Liston, if for no other reason to play devil's advocate.

[ronnyrains]

1968-70 I would go with Quarry, One aspect the Irishman would have maybe a major problem was Liston's Jab and reach advantage, Jerry was quicker at this time, and using those boxer-puncher counter punching skills, could get a decision, and maybe late round stoppage, Quarry could punch! Jerry was supposed to get a shot at Fotreman, November 1973, that fell thru, Foreman had every advantage, yet I could count 1/2 dozen Quarry wins, that had that monicker, And had Quarry put together, the powerful combo's he hit Shavers with - who knows? And Foreman was tougher than Shavers, and Lyle ( 8 years Ron's Junior) . And had that ramrod jab of his own!

[Nile4000]

Quarry would stop Liston late. Youth would be on his side. Shame he didn't get his shot at Foreman.

[Kalan]

Apparently there was talk of this match-up after Listons win over Wepner but obviously Listons died shortly afer his last fight.

Liston was at this point an old but still very dangerous fighter, whereas Quarry was much younger and I would assume much hungrier fighter with just two points loses to slick boxers Machen and Ellis and a brave but arguably tacticaly missjudged stoppage lose to a peak Frazier.

I see Jerry being the gaint killer in this one taking a hard fought point verdict.

Do you agree fight fans.

You don't match Quarry with the Liston who fought Leotis Martin... That's like matching Quarry with the Joe Louis who fought Marciano. Or matching Jerry with the Ezzard Charles who was beaten up and stopped by Young Jack Johnson 11-5-1, in 1955.. Liston was picking his spots with guys like Wepner in 1970... Sonny knew he was done and that's why he was in the ring with Wepner... Look at the guys Ezzard Charles fought from 1955 on.

[Caractacus]

there is as far as I know,only one round exists of Liston vrs Geo. Scrape-Iron Johnson.
but after the ref stopped the fight,Liston re-acts like he just re-claimed the HW championship of the World,
so it must have been a struggle and relief for him to get the win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUNltSH8CLU

[BoxBuzz]

Apparently there was talk of this match-up after Listons win over Wepner but obviously Listons died shortly afer his last fight.

Liston was at this point an old but still very dangerous fighter, whereas Quarry was much younger and I would assume much hungrier fighter with just two points loses to slick boxers Machen and Ellis and a brave but arguably tacticaly missjudged stoppage lose to a peak Frazier.

I see Jerry being the gaint killer in this one taking a hard fought point verdict.

Do you agree fight fans.

You don't match Quarry with the Liston who fought Leotis Martin... That's like matching Quarry with the Joe Louis who fought Marciano. Or matching Jerry with the Ezzard Charles who was beaten up and stopped by Young Jack Johnson 11-5-1, in 1955.. Liston was picking his spots with guys like Wepner in 1970... Sonny knew he was done and that's why he was in the ring with Wepner... Look at the guys Ezzard Charles fought from 1955 on.

I think this rather thoughtful assessment is based on a real time scenario. So...yes you do match them up in that manner....because that's the way it would have actually played out....in that time span.

Context is everything in this case. The devil is in the details....

[Kalan]

No Buz... You don't match them up when Liston knows he's well past it... Who was Ezzard Charles fighting his last couple year in the business??? Not top contenders certainly.. Now, if you're willing to use your marquee name -- and get your ass knocked out because you're really hurting for money???

Sometimes that happens -- but it's not a fair match-up when it does... wasn't fair to Louis...wasn't fair to Ali... wasn't fair to Patterson (2nd Ali fight) - etc.

I'm not sure Liston was in such bad straights financially that he had to over-match himself when he was ancient.. The Martin fight was a miscalculation -- but fighting Quarry wouldn't be.. The Martin fight informed them that aging was a major problem at that point... You don't want to end up like Quarry... You need to use a lot of discretion in this game -- because the wrong fights at the end of your career could wreck your life and devastate your loved ones. If it can happen to some of the best it can happen to anyone. So if you're the manager or coach you put the kobash on those match-ups.

[BoxBuzz]

No Buz... You don't match them up when Liston knows he's well past it... Who was Ezzard Charles fighting his last couple year in the business??? Not top contenders certainly.. Now, if you're willing to use your marquee name -- and get your ass knocked out because you're really hurting for money???

Sometimes that happens -- but it's not a fair match-up when it does... wasn't fair to Louis...wasn't fair to Ali... wasn't fair to Patterson (2nd Ali fight) - etc.

I'm not sure Liston was in such bad straights financially that he had to over-match himself when he was ancient.. The Martin fight was a miscalculation -- but fighting Quarry wouldn't be.. The Martin fight informed them that aging was a major problem at that point... You don't want to end up like Quarry... You need to use a lot of discretion in this game -- because the wrong fights at the end of your career could wreck your life and devastate your loved ones. If it can happen to some of the best it can happen to anyone. So if you're the manager or coach you put the kobash on those match-ups.

Well you've changed the subject quite well.....for that I'll compliment, and then admonish you.


However....once your new subject was established....I find I agree with you.


So.....while we were talking apples you were wrong....

but when you switched to oranges....you rallied nicely.

[Kalan]

Wepner was a bum and that was all that we could base Liston off of at that point in his career. Similar situation to Tyson how we can only base him off of a win over Ettienne now.

Quarry would handle the old Liston unless he gets careless and caught with a huge punch.

I take your point, but I think calling Wepner a Bum is a bit strong, I believe he was a usefull Amatuer before punching for pay. At worst he was a very tough but limited fighter (in world terms).

If he were very tough, Buster Mathis wouldn't have wiped the floor with him in 3 rounds... Horst Geisler never would have stopped him... and Jerry Judge never would have stopped him... He didn't just lose on cuts every time.. He was trashed and stopped a number of times.

[Kalan]

No Buz... You don't match them up when Liston knows he's well past it... Who was Ezzard Charles fighting his last couple year in the business??? Not top contenders certainly.. Now, if you're willing to use your marquee name -- and get your ass knocked out because you're really hurting for money???

Sometimes that happens -- but it's not a fair match-up when it does... wasn't fair to Louis...wasn't fair to Ali... wasn't fair to Patterson (2nd Ali fight) - etc.

I'm not sure Liston was in such bad straights financially that he had to over-match himself when he was ancient.. The Martin fight was a miscalculation -- but fighting Quarry wouldn't be.. The Martin fight informed them that aging was a major problem at that point... You don't want to end up like Quarry... You need to use a lot of discretion in this game -- because the wrong fights at the end of your career could wreck your life and devastate your loved ones. If it can happen to some of the best it can happen to anyone. So if you're the manager or coach you put the kobash on those match-ups.

Well you've changed the subject quite well.....for that I'll compliment, and then admonish you.


However....once your new subject was established....I find I agree with you.


So.....while we were talking apples you were wrong....

but when you switched to oranges....you rallied nicely.

You're full of it.. How could you be right or wrong about a match-up that could never happen??? You don't get to over-match formerly ATG fighters at will.. Liston went to the top of the heap and crushed a prime Patterson in nothing flat.. Quarry fought an aging Patterson and was lucky to get a draw and a close decision.. Trying to match them in 1970 is disingenuous at best.. Certain fights Liston wanted.. Joe Frazier and Elmer Rush.

Liston said Frazier would be his ideal opponent if he could get a fight with him.. "I wouldn't have to chase him and I couldn't miss him.. He's like Floyd Patterson, only easier to hit.. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel."

[Robinson]

I think Quarry bests a 1970 version of Liston. He was tough and capable still around this time but a decade past his best.
Plus you can not write off the outside of the ring lifestyle adding to Liston's wear.

Id pay to watch it still.

[Kalan]

It's not a match-up I would have made for Liston, because there were so many more aggressive styled heavyweights out there who didn't have a lot of ability. But Quarry was so mentally erratic and had such a poor self image, that anytime he faced a "championship caliber" opponent, he faltered. Mentally Quarry never saw himself on the championship level. When Quarry fought Jimmy Ellis, Floyd Patterson remarked, "Quarry isn't using the ability he showed against Spencer. He's either cheating himself, or the public, or both." ... So that would come into play, even facing the ghost of an ATG like Liston.

[evrenb]

there is as far as I know,only one round exists of Liston vrs Geo. Scrape-Iron Johnson.
but after the ref stopped the fight,Liston re-acts like he just re-claimed the HW championship of the World,
so it must have been a struggle and relief for him to get the win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUNltSH8CLU

Wrong wrong wrong

[Kalan]

Right... Liston didn't react anything like that... He was almost embarrassed to get plaudits because Scrap Iron was no great shakes as a Heavyweight.

[Caractacus]

Lets just say,that of all of Sonny Liston's fights I have seen on film or video.
That was the only time I seen him get a little emotional
when he hugged his trainer Dick Sadler.

[Caractacus]

Right... Liston didn't react anything like that... He was almost embarrassed to get plaudits because Scrap Iron was no great shakes as a Heavyweight.

George Foreman had said in a recent interview
when he was asked which was his toughest fight,he said the one with Scrape-iron Johnson.

[Kalan]

Of course he'll pick an obscure fight that he WON!!!! ... You don't expect him to cite the Young, Ali, or Holyfield fights that he LOST!!! ... But he knows what his toughest win was... It was the Alex Stewart fight... Look at his swollen head and face following that fight -- he barely survived that "WIN"

[BoxBuzz]

Of course he'll pick an obscure fight that he WON!!!! ... You don't expect him to cite the Young, Ali, or Holyfield fights that he LOST!!! ... But he knows what his toughest fight was... It was the Alex Stewart fight... Look at his swollen head following that fight -- he barely survived that "win"

Exactly.

I mean come on, what the hell does George Foreman know about the fights he fought?

[Kalan]

One day in the gym I watched Mike Weaver sparring with Scrap Iron... Mike had to take it super easy because he was so much quicker and a harder puncher.

[Kalan]

Of course he'll pick an obscure fight that he WON!!!! ... You don't expect him to cite the Young, Ali, or Holyfield fights that he LOST!!! ... But he knows what his toughest fight was... It was the Alex Stewart fight... Look at his swollen head following that fight -- he barely survived that "win"

Exactly.

I mean come on, what the hell does George Foreman know about the fights he fought?

He knows much more about public relations than you do genius... Look at his bank account... You don't get where George is taking about your failures.

[Tony1244]

Wepner was a bum and that was all that we could base Liston off of at that point in his career. Similar situation to Tyson how we can only base him off of a win over Ettienne now.

Quarry would handle the old Liston unless he gets careless and caught with a huge punch.

If we're going to call fighters bums I think bum should be used for guys with records such as 2(1)-18(12). Not top 10-15 contenders who win most of their fights and go many rounds with the likes of Ali and Liston, albeit a passed his prime Liston.