Wilder rejects Whyte

[punchoutsb]

I'm not a fan of Wilder, but it seems hard to believe he was offered almost 3.5 million USD to fight a guy who just went life and death with Chisora. Not like it would be a PPV over here or sellout a large boxing venue. I don't know why he'd turn down a fight with a C level boxer, when he's beaten Arreola, Stiverne, and Duhaupas, who I rate higher than Whyte.

I'd favour Whyte over those three Wilder opponents. I mean, is going life and death in a win over Chisora that much of a knock when you're comparing Whyte to guys like that?

I think Stiverne and Arreola would stop Whyte. Duhaupas on second thought is probably even with him.

Arreola hasn't stopped anyone in 4 years, and has looked absolute shite (worse than in his "prime") in that time.

Stiverne's only worthwhile wins are over that same Arreola. He got beat up by Derric Rossy.

Whyte hasn't impressed me, but he'd probably be the best guy Wilders ever fought.

[Lackeos]

I'm not a fan of Wilder, but it seems hard to believe he was offered almost 3.5 million USD to fight a guy who just went life and death with Chisora. Not like it would be a PPV over here or sellout a large boxing venue. I don't know why he'd turn down a fight with a C level boxer, when he's beaten Arreola, Stiverne, and Duhaupas, who I rate higher than Whyte.

Whyte is unambiguously better than all of those except for Stiverne, whom he is merely probably better than.

I guess we shall disagree. Whyte has yet to do anything in his career that would suggest he could win a major belt like Stiverne and Arreola has a pretty solid resume. I think they both stop Whyte, at least the versions that fought Wilder. I think Duhaupas is probably a 50/50 fight.

What? Are you completely insulated from Arreola's career? In his past 7 fights, he has 3 dominant losses, 1 dominant win (Seth Mitchell), and he struggled mightily with Curtis Harper, Fred Kassi, and Travis Kauffman. All signs point to the current version of Arreola no longer being top 30 and possibly outside the top 40. It should be noted that Fred Kassi is currently on an 0-4-1 run where Arreola performed worse than all 4 of Kassi's other recent opponents -- Mansour, Breazeale, Hughie Fury, and Jarrell Miller. Zhilei Zhang also beat Curtis Harper more dominantly than Arreola did. Seriously, you can look at Arreola from 50 different angles, and every single point of data tells the exact same story, that he's approximately #40 right now.

Dillion Whyte narrowly beat Dereck Chisora, who was in the #9-11 range going into that fight. Coming out of that fight, Whyte should be considered approximately the #9-10 heavyweight. Whyte's best scalp (Chisora) is frankly better than Stiverne's best scalp (Arreola).

[KiwiRider]

Whyte is unambiguously better than all of those except for Stiverne, whom he is merely probably better than.

I guess we shall disagree. Whyte has yet to do anything in his career that would suggest he could win a major belt like Stiverne and Arreola has a pretty solid resume. I think they both stop Whyte, at least the versions that fought Wilder. I think Duhaupas is probably a 50/50 fight.

What? Are you completely insulated from Arreola's career? In his past 7 fights, he has 3 dominant losses, 1 dominant win (Seth Mitchell), and he struggled mightily with Curtis Harper, Fred Kassi, and Travis Kauffman. All signs point to the current version of Arreola no longer being top 30 and possibly outside the top 40. It should be noted that Fred Kassi is currently on an 0-4-1 run where Arreola performed worse than all 4 of Kassi's other recent opponents -- Mansour, Breazeale, Hughie Fury, and Jarrell Miller. Zhilei Zhang also beat Curtis Harper more dominantly than Arreola did. Seriously, you can look at Arreola from 50 different angles, and every single point of data tells the exact same story, that he's approximately #40 right now.

Dillion Whyte narrowly beat Dereck Chisora, who was in the #9-11 range going into that fight. Coming out of that fight, Whyte should be considered approximately the #9-10 heavyweight. Whyte's best scalp (Chisora) is frankly better than Stiverne's best scalp (Arreola).

Nice informative post
Hard to argue with that data.

[gilgamesh]

Whyte is unambiguously better than all of those except for Stiverne, whom he is merely probably better than.

I guess we shall disagree. Whyte has yet to do anything in his career that would suggest he could win a major belt like Stiverne and Arreola has a pretty solid resume. I think they both stop Whyte, at least the versions that fought Wilder. I think Duhaupas is probably a 50/50 fight.

What? Are you completely insulated from Arreola's career? In his past 7 fights, he has 3 dominant losses, 1 dominant win (Seth Mitchell), and he struggled mightily with Curtis Harper, Fred Kassi, and Travis Kauffman. All signs point to the current version of Arreola no longer being top 30 and possibly outside the top 40. It should be noted that Fred Kassi is currently on an 0-4-1 run where Arreola performed worse than all 4 of Kassi's other recent opponents -- Mansour, Breazeale, Hughie Fury, and Jarrell Miller. Zhilei Zhang also beat Curtis Harper more dominantly than Arreola did. Seriously, you can look at Arreola from 50 different angles, and every single point of data tells the exact same story, that he's approximately #40 right now.

Dillion Whyte narrowly beat Dereck Chisora, who was in the #9-11 range going into that fight. Coming out of that fight, Whyte should be considered approximately the #9-10 heavyweight. Whyte's best scalp (Chisora) is frankly better than Stiverne's best scalp (Arreola).

I don't know if I'd have Arreola quite as low as #40, but he's not in my Top 20 right now and hasn't been for quite a while so I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

[asdfjkl]

And don't forget that Arreola actually made Wilder a cripple while still having 4 rounds left, but as soon as his team realised he has badly injured Wilder, it was Arreola who gave up the fight! It was just a showfight?! He never intended to win!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

And don't forget that Arreola actually made Wilder a cripple while still having 4 rounds left, but as soon as his team realised he has badly injured Wilder, it was Arreola who gave up the fight! It was just a showfight?! He never intended to win!

You're soooooo gay.

[asdfjkl]

And don't forget that Arreola actually made Wilder a cripple while still having 4 rounds left, but as soon as his team realised he has badly injured Wilder, it was Arreola who gave up the fight! It was just a showfight?! He never intended to win!

You're soooooo gay.

In your dreams lol

[Ilya Muromets]

And don't forget that Arreola actually made Wilder a cripple while still having 4 rounds left, but as soon as his team realised he has badly injured Wilder, it was Arreola who gave up the fight! It was just a showfight?! He never intended to win!

Same thing happened when Molina had Wilder in trouble. He backed off.

[Kalan]

Come on... Arreola is an unskilled fat boy who was cherry-picked by Al Haymon and didn't have a chance in Hell... He didn't injure Wilder anymore than Byrd ripped apart Vitali Klitschko's rotator cuff... Ken Norton tore Larry Holmes' left biceps... or Charles Martin blew out Czar Glazkov's knee... Injuries are incidental and a part of sports... Depending on severity they might cost you the fight... Molina rocked Wilder. But he wasn't in any trouble. It's a fight. Both guys are liable to get hit. Washington won 4 straight rounds off of Wilder so he was the biggest threat so far.. Good offense -- no D.

[Ilya Muromets]

Come on... Arreola is an unskilled fat boy who was cherry-picked by Al Haymon and didn't have a chance in Hell... He didn't injure Wilder anymore than Byrd ripped apart Vitali Klitschko's rotator cuff... Ken Norton tore Larry Holmes' left biceps... or Charles Martin blew out Czar Glazkov's knee... Injuries are incidental and a part of sports... Depending on severity they might cost you the fight.

I didn't see the Arreola-Wilder fight, but I did see the Molina-Wilder fight.

[armageto]

Whyte is unambiguously better than all of those except for Stiverne, whom he is merely probably better than.

I guess we shall disagree. Whyte has yet to do anything in his career that would suggest he could win a major belt like Stiverne and Arreola has a pretty solid resume. I think they both stop Whyte, at least the versions that fought Wilder. I think Duhaupas is probably a 50/50 fight.

What? Are you completely insulated from Arreola's career? In his past 7 fights, he has 3 dominant losses, 1 dominant win (Seth Mitchell), and he struggled mightily with Curtis Harper, Fred Kassi, and Travis Kauffman. All signs point to the current version of Arreola no longer being top 30 and possibly outside the top 40. It should be noted that Fred Kassi is currently on an 0-4-1 run where Arreola performed worse than all 4 of Kassi's other recent opponents -- Mansour, Breazeale, Hughie Fury, and Jarrell Miller. Zhilei Zhang also beat Curtis Harper more dominantly than Arreola did. Seriously, you can look at Arreola from 50 different angles, and every single point of data tells the exact same story, that he's approximately #40 right now.

Dillion Whyte narrowly beat Dereck Chisora, who was in the #9-11 range going into that fight. Coming out of that fight, Whyte should be considered approximately the #9-10 heavyweight. Whyte's best scalp (Chisora) is frankly better than Stiverne's best scalp (Arreola).

You do bring up some solid points. I guess I should say, an older Arreola would beat Whyte, not the recent version who Wilder beat. I do think that his overall resume is pretty solid, despite the recent struggles. Though I do think Stiverne from 2 years ago beats him and Duhaupas is a 50/50 fight.

Basically, I just don't think Wilder would duck Whyte. To me, he's just not that good. This version of Chisora, to me, isn't a top 10-15 guy. Wilder has fought, and beaten, numerous guys that are at, above, or near Whyte's level. I could understand if he didn't want Hearn to have options on him.

[Kalan]

I expect Wilder to fight Browne, Hammer, or Dimitrenko next ... or even Miller.

With his next Title Defense Wilder will match Rocky Marciano in number of Heavyweight Title Fights and Title Defenses... 7 and 6

Wilder has already matched Jack Dempsey in the number of successful Title Defenses he's had... And Jack only beat 3 challengers who were Heavyweights.

Bowe successfully defended his 2 Heavyweight Titles 3 times so Wilder has surpassed that... Holyfield defended his various Heavyweight Titles 6 times successfully so Wilder will match him with his next defense.. These were not formidable opponents they were successful against except for Tyson who fouled out.

[asdfjkl]

Come on... Arreola is an unskilled fat boy who was cherry-picked by Al Haymon and didn't have a chance in Hell... He didn't injure Wilder anymore than Byrd ripped apart Vitali Klitschko's rotator cuff... Ken Norton tore Larry Holmes' left biceps... or Charles Martin blew out Czar Glazkov's knee... Injuries are incidental and a part of sports... Depending on severity they might cost you the fight... Molina rocked Wilder. But he wasn't in any trouble. It's a fight. Both guys are liable to get hit. Washington won 4 straight rounds off of Wilder so he was the biggest threat so far.. Good offense -- no D.

But in the end, Vitali lost that match, Glazkov lost that match, and Holmes lost that match.

Somehow Wilder won! And not just on points, because he won (nearly) all rounds before the injury and made it to the end, like Vitali could have done. No, it's actually Arreola who was sitting on his chair giving up the fight?!

[ValMar]

I will repeat, risking to be boring, but, right now, Wilder ought to prove that he is US HW #1, and face Jarrel Miller. If DW is capable to beat Miller (I think he is) he has to consider some big fights (and big pay-days, too)....

[candyslim]

I can't argue with your facts Kalan, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make ... unless you're suggesting Wilder intends to retire undefeated in a few years having clocked up a record number of defenses, so he can tell everybody how he's the greatest heavyweight, no make that fighter, of all time?

In which case we'd probably still be rightly saying his best ever opponent was Bermane Stiverne in their first meeting.

[candyslim]

Wilder isn't going to face Miller. There's little money in it and Miller is arguably just as dangerous as Dillian Whyte, possibly more so.

Face it ValMar - Wilder isn't Usyk. He feels he has to consider his opponents very carefully in order to preserve his champion status. I suppose that's understandable. He has to do the best for his family, and to do that he has to factor his limitations into his planning.

Obviously his fans aren't going to look at it so sympathetically so they have to be fed a litany of excueeeee ... reasons: this guy once got caught doping, this guy isn't with VADA, WADA, or RADA, this guy doesn't want to travel, this guy isn't financially viable, this guy's promoter wants options, this guy ... and so on and so forth.

[marvelous marv]

Wilder has previously hospitalized Miller after a sparring session where Miller mouthed off.

[candyslim]

Nobody said Wilder can't punch, but there's a lot of difference between sparring and a real fight. Could be Miller thought it was just harmless sparring and didn't realize Deontay was really pissed off and looking to kill him. Maybe Wilder really is a level or two above Miller.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

What level is Miller?

[KiwiRider]

From Eddie;

Hearn has made several offers to Wilder's co-manager, Al Haymon. But a few days ago, Wilder erupted on social media and pretty much degraded Whyte as a title challenger and took shots at Hearn's offer. Hearn is very surprised by Wilder's reaction, because a win over Whyte could set the stage for a unification with IBF, WBA, IBO heavyweight champion Anthony Joshua (19-0, 19 KOs) - who Hearn also promotes. "I've made several offers to Al Haymon's team and we are awaiting a final answer, but I think Deontay made things clear on his Instagram," Hearn told Sky Sports. "It's a great offer and a great career move - a chance to earn plenty of money but also be involved in a real fight and IF he is good enough to win then it sets up a massive fight between Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder."

[ValMar]

Anyway, I know that Wilder and Fury have one thing in common - a lot of haters, but without them HW division (the most important division, definitely) would be pretty boring (Joshua and seven decent opponents)....
So, I would like both of them facing the best rivals as soon as possible, and next year to face each other. Winner vs Joshua.....Not so bad....

[ValMar]

Can anyone answer this question, precisely, please : How much money ($) would Willder make facing Joshua in UK ?

[candyslim]

What level is Miller?

Hard to tell seeing as he hasn't beaten anbody of any repute, but I'd tentatively put him up there with the likes of Whyte, Breazeale, Ruiz, Stiverne, Takam, Chisora - that kind of level.[

quote="ValMar"]Anyway, I know that Wilder and Fury have one thing in common - a lot of haters, but without them HW division (the most important division, definitely) would be pretty boring (Joshua and seven decent opponents)....
So, I would like both of them facing the best rivals as soon as possible, and next year to face each other. Winner vs Joshua.....Not so bad....[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. I'm always ripping into Wilder mainly because I get frustrated at the chasm between what he says and what he does, but I'll be the first to admit that I'd be very upset if he announced his retirement. I want him to stop fecking about and show us he's a real Heavyweight Champion. I'll be deeply saddened when Ortiz and Povetkin hang 'em up too, especially if we never get another chance to see them both fight an A-grade Heavyweight.

Can anyone answer this question, precisely, please : How much money ($) would Willder make facing Joshua in UK ?

That's ahard question to answer, it depends on the timing. At this moment having just beaten Klitschko, and commitments to re-match Klitschko and defend two mandatories, I'd say not a lot because Joshua / Hearn need Deontay Wilder like they need a third buttock. UK fight fans would like to see their man fight Deontay but they're in no rush, especially since they know AJ has plenty on his plate.

Now what the landscape looks like next year is anyone's guess. Maybe UK fans are agitating for Josh to fight Wilder. One thing I am certain of is the clamour is much louder and the purse/ package a lot higher if UK fans have watched Wilder see off their boy Dillian in style.

[ValMar]

What level is Miller?

Hard to tell seeing as he hasn't beaten anbody of any repute, but I'd tentatively put him up there with the likes of Whyte, Breazeale, Ruiz, Stiverne, Takam, Chisora - that kind of level.[

quote="ValMar"]Anyway, I know that Wilder and Fury have one thing in common - a lot of haters, but without them HW division (the most important division, definitely) would be pretty boring (Joshua and seven decent opponents)....
So, I would like both of them facing the best rivals as soon as possible, and next year to face each other. Winner vs Joshua.....Not so bad....

I couldn't agree more. I'm always ripping into Wilder mainly because I get frustrated at the chasm between what he says and what he does, but I'll be the first to admit that I'd be very upset if he announced his retirement. I want him to stop fecking about and show us he's a real Heavyweight Champion. I'll be deeply saddened when Ortiz and Povetkin hang 'em up too, especially if we never get another chance to see them both fight an A-grade Heavyweight.

Can anyone answer this question, precisely, please : How much money ($) would Willder make facing Joshua in UK ?

That's ahard question to answer, it depends on the timing. At this moment having just beaten Klitschko, and commitments to re-match Klitschko and defend two mandatories, I'd say not a lot because Joshua / Hearn need Deontay Wilder like they need a third buttock. UK fight fans would like to see their man fight Deontay but they're in no rush, especially since they know AJ has plenty on his plate.

Now what the landscape looks like next year is anyone's guess. Maybe UK fans are agitating for Josh to fight Wilder. One thing I am certain of is the clamour is much louder and the purse/ package a lot higher if UK fans have watched Wilder see off their boy Dillian in style. [/quote]
Thanks ! I would add just one thing. I have not seen a lot of Miller, but, he is very big and strong HW. I suppose he would defeat all HWs mentioned in your post, except, maybe except Stiverne (fit/in shape version).

[Tanzio]

Anyway, I know that Wilder and Fury have one thing in common - a lot of haters, but without them HW division (the most important division, definitely) would be pretty boring (Joshua and seven decent opponents)....
So, I would like both of them facing the best rivals as soon as possible, and next year to face each other. Winner vs Joshua.....Not so bad....

Wilder and The Kong of Coke Mountain are what is boring about the HW division currently; a whole lot of bluster. No action.