Cooper/Ali(Clay)

[Controversial]

Geez I've heard it all now. That is Harry Carpenter, if you can't tell the difference there must be something wrong with your hearing. Here are Gutteridge and Carptenter talking together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fmo0qJDVEI

[evrenb]

I think what Caractacus means is all these Youtube videos seem to be cut-n-paste jobs...

There aren't any that don't cut into the action, add a replay here, and cut something out there... If they run the original film from the beginning so we'd know exactly how many seconds were added to the rest interval... We know there were seconds added... I don't think it made a big difference in the outcome...but exactly how long the rest period was seems to be a bit of a mystery... I think it was maybe 65 seconds, which it's not supposed to be -- but they were massaging Clay's head and neck and working on him with great vigor in the corner -- to get him as alert as possible because he didn't seem to know exactly what was going on... I believe he would have been ready anyway -- but we don't know 100% -- so the Dundee story of buying some extra time with the glove tear has a slight amount of traction... Not much -- because if you got clocked are you going to more alert in a minute 15 or a minute? It wouldn't make a big difference.

What do you know Tark?

[Kalan]

It's what I don't know... I'm not exactly certain the rest period was 65 seconds or there abouts... I certainly think it was -- but why wouldn't it be 60 seconds like normal??? ... I'd like to see the original footage that hasn't been cut... spliced... a replay added in... a slo-mo added in... or otherwise fkked with.

[evrenb]

It's what I don't know... I'm not exactly certain the rest period was 65 seconds or there abouts... I certainly think it was -- but why wouldn't it be 60 seconds like normal??? ... I'd like to see the original footage that hasn't been cut... spliced... a replay added in... a slo-mo added in... or otherwise fkked with.

You haven't watched that particular link then.

[klompton]

Considering I already posted the live BBC radio broadcast of this (which caractus/brutu) conveniently ignored that just happened to feature the commentator expressly stating that they werent going to halt the rest period and would instead change the glove during the next rest period (which never happened because Ali stopped him) i think we can consider this a dead issue. The fact that I was also able to lay the radio audio track perfectly over the television video and they matched up with no edits or discrepencies once again disproves the conspiracy theories of caractus/brutu.

[Kalan]

Right... The last Cooper/Clay video above seems to show the continual broadcast... I think I've seen it before too... There was some confusion about the torn glove but they didn't want to give Clay extra time to recover -- though normally a fight is stopped if there's an equipment failure such as that. Clay did get a few more seconds rest because of the confusion about whether to change the glove and that's it.

I wouldn't want a guy with a torn glove hitting my guy who's already cut very badly...maybe because of the torn glove... I would go with the glove change.

[Caractacus]

One question that was never (really)addressed in this now ten year old thread is this,
(I say really because I know I brought it up but it was never answered)
You people all seem to be coviently forgetting about the ( Illegal) smelling salts that were adminisdered to Cassius Clay aka Muhammad Ali,
immeditaly applied by cornerman Chickie Ferrar as soon as he dropped heavily upon the stool.
What if none had been applied ?
Would they gone ahead and 'waited" for the extra pair of gloves then,
if Muhammad Ali hadnt re-acted to the illegal stimulete(smelling salts)

[Kalan]

One question that was never (really)addressed in this now ten year old thread is this,
(I say really because I know I brought it up but it was never answered)
You people all seem to be coviently forgetting about the ( Illegal) smelling salts that were adminisdered to Cassius Clay aka Muhammad Ali,
immeditaly applied by cornerman Chickie Ferrar as soon as he dropped heavily upon the stool.
What if none had been applied ?
Would they gone ahead and 'waited" for the extra pair of gloves then,
if Muhammad Ali hadnt re-acted to the illegal stimulete(smelling salts)

They put something under his nose to revive him... You don't know if it was smelling salts -- but it was something nasty, but maybe something legal.. and they had no choice but to come out for the 5th.. The Cooper corner rejected the glove change cuz Clay was hurt -- said they could do it the next round.

Not me... I get that glove changed... My guy's eye is already fkked up... Too bad Cooper didn't land that left hook mid-round -- but with more than a minute's rest it's like Tyson-Douglas.. Neither Douglas or Clay had great difficultly getting to their feet -- so any chance to finish them is long gone.

[evrenb]

Considering I already posted the live BBC radio broadcast of this (which caractus/brutu) conveniently ignored that just happened to feature the commentator expressly stating that they werent going to halt the rest period and would instead change the glove during the next rest period (which never happened because Ali stopped him) i think we can consider this a dead issue. The fact that I was also able to lay the radio audio track perfectly over the television video and they matched up with no edits or discrepencies once again disproves the conspiracy theories of caractus/brutu.

Didn't respond to that one did He??

[Caractacus]

btw This topic is far from being "settled".
Because If the original 1963 film negative of the fight had been spliced to re-move the original claim
of "Two minutes and Two seconds" between rounds 4 and five.
down to just the usual 60 seconds and then prints FOR tv, were made from the spliced negative (?)

[Ambling Alp II]

Why does it matter. Clay(Ali) was up immediately and was fine. if this was not Ali, nobody would give this fight a second thought. Much ado about nothing.

[margaret thatcher]

btw This topic is far from being "settled".
Because If the original 1963 film negative of the fight had been spliced to re-move the original claim
of "Two minutes and Two seconds" between rounds 4 and five.
down to just the usual 60 seconds and then prints FOR tv, were made from the spliced negative (?)

ya, it was all a deep fake. in fact what really happened, that the mainstream media doesnt want you to know about, is once ali was dropped, dundee performed a special illuminati hand signal to summon the fan man, who crashed into the ring, causing a delay that exists to this day. word is that the next round should start any minute now, but ali continues to gain crucial recovery time

[Caractacus]

Why does it matter. Clay(Ali) was up immediately and was fine. if this was not Ali, nobody would give this fight a second thought. Much ado about nothing.

It wasn't fine if Ali was so groggy that Chickie Ferrara had to
break some smelling salts (which were illegal)under his nose
And Angelo Dundee had to tear a hole in the glove for
the extra one minute and 2 seconds rest in-between rounds four and Five.

[klompton]

Why does it matter. Clay(Ali) was up immediately and was fine. if this was not Ali, nobody would give this fight a second thought. Much ado about nothing.

It wasn't fine if Ali was so groggy that Chickie Ferrara had to
break some smelling salts (which were illegal)under his nose
And Angelo Dundee had to tear a hole in the glove for
the extra one minute and 2 seconds rest in-between rounds four and Five.

You should press charges…. Convene an emergency council of the UN…. Do something, ANYTHING!!! This injustice must not stand!!! …60 years later…


At least now you admit there was no huge break between rounds…. So years later you can actually meekly and half assedly admit you were wrong. Thats something.

[evrenb]

I love the way Caractacus deliberately baits us and then ignores every shred of evidence that has ever been presented to him, no matter how concrete, no matter how verified. In exchange he offers blah blah blah all over the place.

[Caractacus]

so where is the original negative of the filmed fight then ?
( or where do you think it may be anyway ?)
destroyed a long time ago perhaps ?

[Caractacus]

I love the way Caractacus deliberately baits us and then ignores every shred of evidence that has ever been presented to him, no matter how concrete, no matter how verified. In exchange he offers blah blah blah all over the place.

Then show the 'concrete" evidence dude. (please)

[Caractacus]

Why does it matter. Clay(Ali) was up immediately and was fine. if this was not Ali, nobody would give this fight a second thought. Much ado about nothing.

It wasn't fine if Ali was so groggy that Chickie Ferrara had to
break some smelling salts (which were illegal)under his nose
And Angelo Dundee had to tear a hole in the glove for
the extra one minute and 2 seconds rest in-between rounds four and Five.

You should press charges…. Convene an emergency council of the UN…. Do something, ANYTHING!!! This injustice must not stand!!! …60 years later…


At least now you admit there was no huge break between rounds…. So years later you can actually meekly and half assedly admit you were wrong. Thats something.

did no such thing man, did you not see the word 'EXTRA one minute and 2 seconds" in the post
along with the required 'one Minutes" rest of course ?
because you gotta think like one of those many shyster lawyers just to get by these days.

[klompton]

I will never believe that there was only a "few seconds"delay.

And dont tell us you arent Brutu because we all know you are...

[Caractacus]

Has anyone come up with the original 'live" British radio broadcast of the fight ?

[klompton]

Has anyone come up with the original 'live" British radio broadcast of the fight ?

You know I have because I posted it here and before it got taken down you completely ignored it you twat!

[Caractacus]

Was it the actuall BBC broadcast with the intro's and exits ?
it wasn't actualy the audio taken from the fight footage print that we have all seen already was it ?

[Controversial]

Was it the actuall BBC broadcast with the intro's and exits ?
it wasn't actualy the audio taken from the fight footage print that we have all seen already was it ?

Why do you believe there was a long break as no footage shows one and no newspaper article mentions one? It was just a cock and bull story to make it sound more interesting than it was.

[klompton]

Was it the actuall BBC broadcast with the intro's and exits ?
it wasn't actualy the audio taken from the fight footage print that we have all seen already was it ?

[Caractacus]

Is that the 'evidence" there ?
if so,
it all sounds like some type of 'Conspiracy" or somethin' ' (if you was to arsk me)