Bert Sugar predicts Tyson against the ATGs (pre-Douglas)

[APerno]

From NYTimes 1989

. . . there has been some recent speculation about how Tyson would have fared against past heavyweight champions. For instance, in the November issue of Boxing Illustrated, Bert Sugar, the magazine's editor and publisher, has conjured up bouts matching Tyson against previous champions with both fighting at identical weights.

Under that format, Sugar sees Tyson stopping Max Baer in 2 rounds and Ezzard Charles in 8; scoring technical knockouts over Rocky Marciano in 10 rounds and Joe Frazier in 5; losing to Muhammad Ali and Gene Tunney by decision, and being knocked out by Jack Dempsey in 3, Jack Johnson in 11, Sonny Liston in 4 and Joe Louis in 8.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

From NYTimes 1989

. . . there has been some recent speculation about how Tyson would have fared against past heavyweight champions. For instance, in the November issue of Boxing Illustrated, Bert Sugar, the magazine's editor and publisher, has conjured up bouts matching Tyson against previous champions with both fighting at identical weights.

Under that format, Sugar sees Tyson stopping Max Baer in 2 rounds and Ezzard Charles in 8; scoring technical knockouts over Rocky Marciano in 10 rounds and Joe Frazier in 5; losing to Muhammad Ali and Gene Tunney by decision, and being knocked out by Jack Dempsey in 3, Jack Johnson in 11, Sonny Liston in 4 and Joe Louis in 8.

If Tunney dreamed he beat Tyson he better wake up and say i'm very sorry one thousand time's

[Kalan]

Buster Douglas didn't have half of Gene Tunney's boxing skills... He dreamt that he beat the sh!t out of Tyson -- and then he lived the dream.

[elmersalsa]

Notice that George Foreman was not considered a great heavyweight boxer then.

[Ezzard]

He got re-evaluated after the Moorer victory.

Liston was also re-evaluated back in the 1980s. He had not been considered a great due to his performances against Ali...and short title reign.

[Tuan_Jim]

Actually it was the Holyfield fight that forced the reevaluation of Foreman - the Moorer win was the icing on the cake! Same way Holyfield's upset of Tyson forced the reevaluation of his reputation.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sonny Liston, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles and Max Baer are mentioned but neither Larry Holmes or George Foreman is not either. Have not seen the article but I don't know if this is necessary who Sugar thought were the best.

[Ezzard]

Actually it was the Holyfield fight that forced the reevaluation of Foreman - the Moorer win was the icing on the cake! Same way Holyfield's upset of Tyson forced the reevaluation of his reputation.

This is how I remember it...

Foreman's comeback was very carefully managed. Nobody really wanted him fighting. It was unprecedented at that time for a guy that age to still be in the sport at the top level. We always expected it would end in a devastating defeat or worse. His comeback career consisted of the usual knock-over jobs with the odd lighter-weight name or past-it name thrown in. His famous name and the curiosity factor got him the fight with Holyfield.

Holy was not considered a great at that time. He had gone life and death with an excellent but diminutive Qawi - a great win...but the Heavyweight division was a different landscape altogether. And the common wisdom was that Holy would be unable to defeat a prime big Heavyweight. That like Mike Spinks before him...the talent was there but his size would let him down.

He'd cleaned up the flotsam and jetsam of the cocaine era of HWs but could he really go toe-to-toe with a prime 230+ lb beast?

What we didn't know then was that Holyfield had a granite jaw that was one of the all-time great HW chins...and this would be the foundation for his skills to showcase themselves.

After the fight...

Holyfield was maligned for his inability to KO an old man. Foreman was praised for putting up a better fight than was expected. And most of us thought Foreman can retire now...and breathed a sigh of relief that he would leave the sport with his faculties still in tact.

But Holy was not considered a great HW at that point. His fights with George and Holmes were seen as soft fights...in which he failed to excel... Of course, that perception would change as both opponents would prove to have more left than we realised at the time of their Holy fights.

[wouter]

Sonny Liston, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles and Max Baer are mentioned but neither Larry Holmes or George Foreman is not either. Have not seen the article but I don't know if this is necessary who Sugar thought were the best.

I have it somewhere, I'll try to find it. If I remember correctly it may even have been a series of articles where readers could also send in their predictions. It also matched the fighters pound-for-pound, so all fighters were supposedly of the same size.