Primo Carnera vs Vitali Klitschko

[Ambling Alp II]

But guys, Vitali beat a guy who dominated and destroyed Michael Bentt!

You wonder what % of fans buy the pretty win-loss record, title defense BS.

[Kalan]

Carnera's ONLY 2 successful Title Defenses came against opponents who previously suffered 14 and 16 losses and were on the down-slide... NOT pretty.

Then Primo promptly lost the title to Max Baer - an amateurish swinger who had 7 previous losses.. It was only his 3rd Title Defense.. If Carnera had half the boxing skills and athleticism of the 196-pound Joe Louis---a guy who had only 19 fights in an 11-month career when he smashed Primo---he would have flattened Baer inside of 8 rounds... The problem with Carnera is he didn't appreciate Boxing as a craft like Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, and Vitali Klitschko did.

[dempseyfire]

Kalan your trolling has pretty much ruined this forum.

[crusader]

Just put him on ignore. Too many people complain about certain posters while engaging them and hence promoting the spread of more nonsense.

[Kalan]

All you 2 clowns do is deal in nonsensical trolling... I talk Boxing and you children try to get a food fight going.

[pacios box]

Carnera is undervalued. By his time he was a rather clever boxer; Took advantage of its height and its physical strength, maintained the distance well and had a certain technique.
It was not a phenomenon, but not a package.
On the other hand, in a fight with Vitali I would lose more than anything because of the modern times.
Vitali is faster, more skilled and more experienced
Assuming it's a 12 round fight, I lean towards Vitali winning by ko between 9 and 12

[Kalan]

Yes -- except Carnera was soft chinned and an easy target.
Vitali would feel free to swing pretty big on a pokey recipient.
No doubt VK gets rid of PC in 3.

[Ambling Alp II]

Carnera is undervalued. By his time he was a rather clever boxer; Took advantage of its height and its physical strength, maintained the distance well and had a certain technique.
It was not a phenomenon, but not a package.
On the other hand, in a fight with Vitali I would lose more than anything because of the modern times.
Vitali is faster, more skilled and more experienced
Assuming it's a 12 round fight, I lean towards Vitali winning by ko between 9 and 12

Vitali wasn't faster; in fact he was probably even slower.
He wasn't more skilled; he wasn't skilled very much at all.

I don't even see how you can argue Klitschko was more experienced. What is that based on? Carnera had more fights and more important fights well. (Just because a WBS title is at stake doesn't it important.)

[HomicideHenry]

I think it'd of been a competitive contest. Why? Carnera defeated fellow giants Jose Santa and Ray Impelltierre in relatively easy fights. They were taller than Primo, and just as heavy. So Vitali's height, weight, etc is relatively meaningless.

ALOT of people say that Primo was nothing more than a manufactured heavyweight, etc. but fake fighters couldn't stand toe to toe, getting up numerous times against a murderous puncher like Max Baer. Compare records between Primo and Vitali, and one can argue that the Italian had the better resume of wins: Tommy Loughran surely was a superior win than Tomasz Adamek, no?

I think this goes the twelve round distance.

[Kalan]

Carnera defeated fellow giants Jose Santa and Ray Impelltierre in relatively easy fights. They were taller than Primo, and just as heavy. So Vitali's height, weight, etc is relatively meaningless.

one can argue that the Italian had the better resume of wins: Tommy Loughran surely was a superior win than Tomasz Adamek, no?

ALOT of people say that Primo was nothing more than a manufactured heavyweight, etc. but fake fighters couldn't stand toe to toe, getting up numerous times against a murderous puncher like Max Baer

You’re posting sheer nonsense HomicideHenry.

Ray Impelletiere was 7-3 when he lost to Carnera who had over 80 fights. Impelletiere finished 10-7 for his entire career.. His last fight he was knocked out by Bob Pastor who weighed 183 and had a 26% KO ratio.

And how bad was Jose Santa??? He was knocked out by Ray Impelletiere when Impelletiere had four (4) fights and Santa had 64 fights. That’s worse than it sounds. Impelletiere had no amateur fights.

If you argue somebody fought better competition, don’t use those 2 characters because they sucked.

His loss to Primo Carnera was Tommy Loughran’s 6th loss in 13 fights. He lost his next 3 fights in a row. Loughran was on the big slide when he met Primo.

Tomasz Adamek was 44-1 when he fought Vitali Klitschko and coming off a winning streak of 13-0, including beating Michael Grant, 6’7” X 261 - a rock hard tremendous athlete... Grant was 46-3 for his career when he fought Adamek, with a winning streak of 8-0 going into the Adamek fight.. Adamek also had wins over Chris Arreola, 28-1... Johnathan Banks, 20-0... and Steve Cunningham, 21-1.. But Adamek lost every round to the 40-year-old Vitali Klitschko and was knocked out for the 1st time in his career by a man who was 6 years older, but had elite boxing skills and a masterful defense.

The reason Vitali's height, weight, reach, and experience were advantageous to him were his superb boxing skills. Vitali was a World Champion amateur with over 200 fights. Primo wasn't anything as an amateur, and never developed any boxing skills or defensive skills.

The only masterful, prime great boxer Carnera ever fought was Joe Louis.. Louis, 19-0, had been a professional boxer for LESS than a year when he destroyed Carnera brutally, efficiently, and quickly.. Carnera looked helpless as he was battered non-stop by the athletic Louis, who weighed 196.

Louis got rid of the ridiculous Max Baer even faster than he polished off Carnera -- in 4 rounds.. Louis had only 14 months of professional experience when he fought Baer.. Louis was Baer's 2nd loss in a row since beating the crap out of the hapless and helpless Carnera.. So much for Carnera's "experience."

Vitali Klitschko was never knocked down in his entire career and was always winning on points after every fight.. HIs only 2 losses were due to injuries, but he was winning both fights on points... In sharp contrast Primo Carnera lost 14 times and was knocked down over 20 times.. He was one of the worst Heavyweight Champions in the History of Boxing. Only Willard was worse. Experience only means anything when you learn something.

[HomicideHenry]

Never once did I say Santa and Impelltierre we're anything. All I said was SIZE alone, wasn't much of a deterrent for Carnera. They were bigger than him. Of course they were in no way shape or form like Vitali in skillset, but it's clear that size didn't intimidate Carnera either.

As for Loughran, I believe p4p he was better than Adamek and he certainly held better wins at heavyweight than Adamek did. Overall, Carnera beating Loughran was better than Vitali beating Adamek. You can't really make an argument that Adamek was better than Loughran.

As for Louis vs Carnera, Primo was passed it and suffering from scirossis of the liver. As for Louis vs Baer, there's much evidence that Baer was essentially fighting one handed because his entire right arm was numb from a shot given in the dressing room. If we're to judge Primo Carnera it has to be his prime years, and I'd argue that his losses meant more than most of Vitali's wins due to quality of opposition.

[Kalan]

You can't really make an argument that Adamek was better than Loughran

We've done this before Henry -- Vitali Klitscho's list of victims as he became a 3-time Heavyweight Champion included:

Chris Arreola was 27-0 when he fought Vitali, and thought by some Latino writers to be a great Heavyweight. Vitali dominated and stopped him.
Sam Peter was a 30-1 Heavyweight Champion who'd never been stopped and only beaten once by Wladimir Klitschko. Vitali wasted him in 7.
Kirk Johnson was 34-1, lost one fight by DQ, and was never stopped... VK put him out in 2 rounds.
Vaughan Bean was 42-2 and had never been stopped. Vitali stopped him..
Larry Donald was 39-2 and had never been stopped.. Vitali stopped him..
Timo Hoffman was 22-0 and Vitali beat him very easily.
Danny Williams was 32-3 and had just knocked out Mike Tyson. Vitali treated him like a cheap sparring partner.
Shannon Briggs was 51-5 and a 2-time Heavyweight Champion.. He couldn't win a round from Vitali.
Herbie Hide was 31-1, and a 2 X Heavyweight Champion a very quick fisted boxer who dominated and destroyed Michael Bentt.. Vitali iced him in 2 rds.
Two-time World Champion Tomasz Adamek 44-1... VK easily dominated and stopped him.
World Cruiserweight Champion Juan Carlos Gomez, 44-1... Vitali easily dominated and stopped him.

Who's on Primo Carnera's list of victims??? What were their ring records and acomplishments???

Tommy Loughran lost 6 of his privious 13 fights when he lost to Carnera next -- and he would lose his next 2 fights after Primo... He was seriously on the slide.

Tomasz Adamek was 44-1 and with many top fighters and World Champions on his victims list... He was coming off a very long winning streak... Vitali Klitschko was 40-years-old and still retained enough speed, skill, and reflexes to avoid punishment, win every round, and knock the much younger man out.